Graphical Fidelity I Expect This Gen

Myuni said:
Well, DS2 has its shortcomings:
  • Motion blur cannot be deactivated.
  • Ambient occlusion is not the best (some U4 titles look better in this regard).
  • Texture quality is sketchy at times if you get too close (but never as shitty as, e.g., in worst-case UE5 Wukong scenarios).
  • The lighting at nighttime doesn't look too good.
But... the performance is superb. Locked 30/60 FPS, no hiccups, no stutter, nothing so far.

And when it shines, it shines.
I'm constantly stuck in photo mode, hardly making any progress :messenger_relieved:

PS5 Quality:

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Looks great. The fine details seem to fall apart a bit when you look at things up close though.
 
In this interview guerilla developer said that they didnt implemented rt on HFW because of game nature as cross gen and said it's became harder to implement it on pc version
www.eurogamer.net

The big Horizon Forbidden West PC tech interview with Nixxes and Guerrilla Games

Alex Battaglia interviews the development staff at Nixxes to see how they ported Horizon Forbidden West from PS5 to PC in the Complete Edition.
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net
tPm9BQHfx3NAU4tQ.jpg

Now ds2 is current gen only and they have even more powerful ps5 pro and they fucking doing nothing, sure ds2 cutscenes are really great (best of current gen) but gameplay really is needed far better lighting,reflection (rt) and true nanite equipment tech finally I thought guerrilla with decima will lead this gen for sony but seems like insumniac Will do better considering their approach for wolverine hopefully they stuck to this goals
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You guys should wait to play the game before passing final judgment. RT would definitely be of great help but the current GI lighting solution is pretty strong and even often stunning. It also helps that the game takes place mostly outside so there is less need for minute lighting resolve.

The geometry is strong, even if yes Nanite solution is missing in mid distance, that's a shame.

The game goes pretty hard on visual effects also, which should not be looked over. Particule effects of meteorological events are notably very stunning and you have a lot going on in terms of decals, change in environments etc…

Overall the game is really strong looking in place, and the sharp IQ really enhance the large vistas. The image is really pleasing to the eye.

Definitely one of the best looking games this gen when playing on your TV imho overall, even if it does not have a lot of latest cutting edge advancements.
 
Flabagast said:
You guys should wait to play the game before passing final judgment. RT would definitely be of great help but the current GI lighting solution is pretty strong and even often stunning. It also helps that the game takes place mostly outside so there is less need for minute lighting resolve.

The geometry is strong, even if yes Nanite solution is missing in mid distance, that's a shame.

The game goes pretty hard on visual effects also, which should not be looked over. Particule effects of meteorological events are notably very stunning and you have a lot going on in terms of decals, change in environments etc…

Overall the game is really strong looking in place, and the sharp IQ really enhance the large vistas. The image is really pleasing to the eye.

Definitely one of the best looking games this gen when playing on your TV imho overall, even if it does not have a lot of latest cutting edge advancements.
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I mean its pretty obvious from DF's footage that the game is a looker. We are just always going to be a bit more critical of its shortcomings. Especially considering they went out of their way to not utilize RTGI, and mesh shaders.
 
GymWolf said:
DVuaQ7.jpg


Is this supposed to be impressive in 2025?
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I mean, it looks good, dare I say even amazing at times, but this isn't exactly the "Looks good or good enough thread". But it's no surprise, the 1st one looked good, the engine is amazing, to me, Horizon FW characters look better, these in DS2 look fake sometimes -something between hyperreal and stylized - and the hair isn't that impressive.
Here the game gets no pass with stuff like this, timestamped:


What this game has, just like the 1st is amazing cinematography and a lot of people are fooled by cutscenes and mistake it for the best graphics ever, I've seen this time and time again.

Also lol at people that think the starting of game when they show real stuff is in game, I mean, that shit is pretty obvious.
 
GymWolf said:
nanite level tech guys:

Luipadre

|OT|  Post in thread 'Death Stranding 2: On the Beach |OT| Ain't That A Beach'

One thing is really disappointing about the graphics are the mid range details. It looks so bad. Like the things close to you looks good, things far away like mountains looks amazing, but then you look at the ground and its like a ps2 textures. They should've focus on improving that thing, because it really sticks out :(
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But twitter said we don't need nanite



 
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Luipadre said:
One thing is really disappointing about the graphics are the mid range details. It looks so bad. Like the things close to you looks good, things far away like mountains looks amazing, but then you look at the ground and its like a ps2 textures. They should've focus on improving that thing, because it really sticks out :(
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Quoting this post here instead of the OT because people get their panties in a twist if you point out issues with games in the OT.

Thats because those mountains in the distance are 2d cardboard cut outs (insomniac calls them imposters) whereas the mid field detail is still geometry. Horizon ZD and HFW had the same issues with near field detail looking perfect, mid field detail looking bland or masked by fog.

This is why you need a more graceful LOD system like Nanite that can handle a more consistent level of geometry all across the map. i wouldnt be surprised if they ran into a vram or bandwidth bottleneck before hitting a GPU processing power bottleneck here. they are targeting native 4k, if they wanted to, they couldve pushed a lot better LODs. it will be interesting to see the vram usage of this game on PC. Sounds like the same problem indiana jones ran into.

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Msamy said:
In this interview guerilla developer said that they didnt implemented rt on HFW because of game nature as cross gen and said it's became harder to implement it on pc version
www.eurogamer.net

The big Horizon Forbidden West PC tech interview with Nixxes and Guerrilla Games

Alex Battaglia interviews the development staff at Nixxes to see how they ported Horizon Forbidden West from PS5 to PC in the Complete Edition.
www.eurogamer.net www.eurogamer.net
tPm9BQHfx3NAU4tQ.jpg

Now ds2 is current gen only and they have even more powerful ps5 pro and they fucking doing nothing, sure ds2 cutscenes are really great (best of current gen) but gameplay really is needed far better lighting,reflection (rt) and true nanite equipment tech finally I thought guerrilla with decima will lead this gen for sony but seems like insumniac Will do better considering their approach for wolverine hopefully they stuck to this goals
1j6p0fkpYMDK7wRX.jpg
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Saw this become a meme on twitter thing morning on sports channels, and had it bring it to this thread lol
 
Imtjnotu said:
why would they need mesh sharders to be used when PS5 doesnt have memory issues?

DS2 doesnt show any lod pop or texture fill issues.....
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The guy i was replying to literally pointed out that the detail in the distance is bad. they are using lower LODs for anything thats not directly in front of them just like HFW did.
 
I just realized that Hellblade 2 screenshots if taken on the xsx were only rendering at around 970-1070p with black bars. just imagine what kojipro couldve done if they hadnt wasted 4x more GPU power chasing native 4k. i understand the game is open world and they need to render a lot more vistas than hellblade 2, but maybe they couldve settled for 4kcb or 4k pssr quality which wouldve still given them 2x more GPU power to really go nuts with the character models.
 
Man points out the game has no ray tracing and runs at 1440p 60 fps on a base ps5.
Then asks how did kojima do it?
umm because he didnt use ray tracing you numbnut.

 
DS2 has the best character models and facial animation I've ever seen. Absolutely insane. Combine it with the scene composition and cinematography and it just can't be beat.

It's a shame about the issues with mid field LOD. I don't know if it's a Decima thing or what but it just seems like it doesn't leverage the hardware for draw distance as well as some other games (especially UE5 titles). The weather effects are top tier though. When everything is clicking at once it's stunning.
 
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GooseMan69 said:
DS2 has the best character models and facial animation I've ever seen. Absolutely insane. Combine it with the scene composition and cinematography and it just can't be beat.

It's a shame about the issues with mid field LOD. I don't know if it's a Decima thing or what but it just seems like it doesn't leverage the hardware for draw distance as well as some other games (especially UE5 titles). The weather effects are top tier though. When everything is clicking at once it's stunning.
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Tech demo
 
Alex11 said:
There's no doubt that Sam looks amazing, but Senua is just insane, might as well be a photo.





Jesus, I still have nightmares from that FF7 lighting.
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And the worst part is they never fixed it. With the previous game, intergrade, they did fix the lighting and it looked better. But with Rebirth they have done nothing. The graphics in the final fantasy remakes are so frustrating honestly, character models are great, but environments are a generation or two behind
 
SlimySnake said:
I would like to take a moment to point out some hilarious inconsistences in John's DS2 review:

- Right at the start of the video, he bemoans this generation's cross gen focus.
- Literally a minute later, compares DS2 to HFW and says its not as big of a leap as HFW was to HZD. HFW was cross gen...
- Compares rock detail to Nanite.
- ten minutes later, points out how details are low res for objects not directly in front of you, and doesnt look great. i mean isnt the entire point of nanite is to handle LODs more gracefully? anyone can push detail right in front of you.

Overall, its a good review pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of this game, but as always he refuses to compare these games to other games this gen that have produced far better visuals choosing instead to compare it to the previous entry. Thats fine for a review, but an incomplete assessment of the game's technical shortcomings.
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This so called review renewed my disgust for DF. Like seriously after that super pretenious intro and all the bullshit superfluous adjectives John used to gush over these cross gen looking visuals i'm suprised John was able to speak at all considering how bruised his throat must be from Kojima shoving his cock down it. Like literally the definition of a fan boy ad designed to generate hype disguised as a review.
 
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Dont blame kojima san. His team did their best with character models and superb art work, to hide the clearly dated decima engine.

Spiderman2, Hfw, Wolverine, intergalactic, all looks weak

You just cant make an UE4 game look better than UE5 as a developer. FF7RB looks dated no matter how much artwork poured into it
 
Imtjnotu said:
why would they need mesh sharders to be used when PS5 doesnt have memory issues?

DS2 doesnt show any lod pop or texture fill issues.....
Click to expand...

Whatever solution they have, and decima is no slouch engine wise don't get me wrong, mesh shaders would do it better. More aggressive culling. Better LOD. Geometry stays in pipeline and alleviates memory and bandwidth in the system. You save rendering frametimes with it because you stop ping-ponging around CPU-GPU all the time. You can use that ressource then for RTGI maybe, like AC shadows.

Mesh shaders are still in infancy but it is 100% the future.

Especially since PS2 technically had the ancestor of "mesh shaders", as in fully programmable compute units for geometry/shading, the VU.



Then Geforce introduced hardware T&L which favored fixed function speed and boosted graphical fidelity back then, but we're basically back to square 1 just decades later

PS2 VUs full programmable → Nvidia fixed function hardware T&L → vertex shaders → geometry shaders (avoided at all cost it performed like shit)→ Mesh shaders.

Surprised Sony isn't flexing this with so many years into the gen so far.
 
Buggy Loop said:
Whatever solution they have, and decima is no slouch engine wise don't get me wrong, mesh shaders would do it better. More aggressive culling. Better LOD. Geometry stays in pipeline and alleviates memory and bandwidth in the system. You save rendering frametimes with it because you stop ping-ponging around CPU-GPU all the time. You can use that ressource then for RTGI maybe, like AC shadows.

Mesh shaders are still in infancy but it is 100% the future.

Especially since PS2 technically had the ancestor of "mesh shaders", as in fully programmable compute units for geometry/shading, the VU.



Then Geforce introduced hardware T&L which favored fixed function speed and boosted graphical fidelity back then, but we're basically back to square 1 just decades later

PS2 VUs full programmable → Nvidia fixed function hardware T&L → vertex shaders → geometry shaders (avoided at all cost it performed like shit)→ Mesh shaders.

Surprised Sony isn't flexing this with so many years into the gen so far.
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Don't forget to give some credit to AMD as well, they introduced Primtive Shaders and the NGG (Next Generation Graphics) pipeline in the Vega architecture before Nvidia introduced Mesh Shaders, with the need for bringing compute shader like functionality into the graphics pipeline.

Nvidia won out in the end in terms of industry standardisation, thanks to DX12U adoption but it still benefited AMD as their hardware could still take advantage post-Vega.
 
Hellblade 2 is getting a graphics udpate!

Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a cinematic experience of immersion where we push real-time visuals to deliver rich, believable environments and characters to sink you deep into Senua's story. Now, with Performance Mode, we're excited to give you the option to experience gameplay at 60 FPS. The result is smoother gameplay, especially noticeable during combat and fast-moving moments of the game. On PC, where you've had more flexibility with performance based on your personal hardware, we're now offering a 'Very High' preset to push that fidelity even further. The team has also been hard at work optimizing the game for Steam Deck, so when this update lands, the game will be Steam Deck Verified for the first time. Wherever you choose to play, we've made sure the experience is optimized for your chosen hardware.

I hope that means hardware lumen is in, I'm about halfway through the game, but think I'll put it on hold until this update is out.
edit: I wonder if they've moved to a new version of unreal in order to his 60fps on console?
 
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peish said:
Dont blame kojima san. His team did their best with character models and superb art work, to hide the clearly dated decima engine.

Spiderman2, Hfw, Wolverine, intergalactic, all looks weak

You just cant make an UE4 game look better than UE5 as a developer. FF7RB looks dated no matter how much artwork poured into it
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"Kojima san" and his team has write access to Decima engine. Kojima san literally chose the name of the engine. Kojima san had 6 years to add ray tracing either alone or by partnering up with GG, and failed miserably.

There were around 30 games released in the first year of PS5 that had ray tracing support. Mostly rt reflections or shadows, but nowadays in 2025, realtime GI either software or hardware RT is pretty much a standard and baked lighting is on its way out. Callisto added three RT effects in 2022, star wars jedi survivor added 3 RT effects including RTGI 4 months later. Both UE4 games that still hold up next to UE5 games.

No one should get a pass 5 years into this gen.
 
mrMUR_96 said:
Hellblade 2 is getting a graphics udpate!

Senua's Saga: Hellblade II is a cinematic experience of immersion where we push real-time visuals to deliver rich, believable environments and characters to sink you deep into Senua's story. Now, with Performance Mode, we're excited to give you the option to experience gameplay at 60 FPS. The result is smoother gameplay, especially noticeable during combat and fast-moving moments of the game. On PC, where you've had more flexibility with performance based on your personal hardware, we're now offering a 'Very High' preset to push that fidelity even further. The team has also been hard at work optimizing the game for Steam Deck, so when this update lands, the game will be Steam Deck Verified for the first time. Wherever you choose to play, we've made sure the experience is optimized for your chosen hardware.

I hope that means hardware lumen is in, I'm about halfway through the game, but think I'll put it on hold until this update is out.
edit: I wonder if they've moved to a new version of unreal in order to his 60fps on console?
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that would be amazing.

But 60 fps on software lumen was never the problem. It was just that the game was already running at 970-1070p on the xsx. Getting it to run at 60 fps wouldve required 720p or below which is probably something they didnt want to do. Most of the UE5 upgrades since 5.1 have been geared towards making Hardware lumen as performant as software lumen and HB2 never had hardware lumen. It will be interesting to see what the 60 fps version runs at and whether or not HW is enabled on PC.

I vaguely recall some performance upgrades to software lumen in 5.2 but i cant find anything on it right now. I believe sncvsrtoip sncvsrtoip saw something on B3D back in the day.
 
TheRedRiders said:
Don't forget to give some credit to AMD as well, they introduced Primtive Shaders and the NGG (Next Generation Graphics) pipeline in the Vega architecture before Nvidia introduced Mesh Shaders, with the need for bringing compute shader like functionality into the graphics pipeline.

Nvidia won out in the end in terms of industry standardisation, thanks to DX12U adoption but it still benefited AMD as their hardware could still take advantage post-Vega.
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Noted. Didn't cross my mind but they are indeed in the path of geometry pipeline changes, right after geometry shader I guess.

I can't say I know much about their implementation, but this post seem to cover some of the hurdles that differentiates the primitive shader tech to mesh shader's later implementation.

Did any games use it on Vega? It seems to have been undercooked when AMD dropped driver path. I guess peoples expected AMD to hijack a game and squeeze performance out of it with this? That would have been a monumental task to develop on a game to game basis and then to keep support, but apparently AMD engineers made the claim they would?
 
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