Mr Moose
Member
digoutyoursoul
Member
Interesting he refuses to acknowledge the existence of Phil Spencer in negative times.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
I really liked the Flight Simulator (the previous one), Forza Horizon UK, and Indy. Thought these were solid games.
Halo Collection also finally got patched to the point where it is excellent so there is that.
SamuraiEdge
Member
HeisenbergFX4
Member
I too enjoy Flight Sim and Forza Horizon and look forward to the next FH hopefully set in Japan as rumored
I need to revisit Halo Collection
Spoken like someone who knows first hand to quit or get fired
But I am just "guessing"
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
MS's idea of "Netflix of games" never made any sense IMO, even when Game Pass was conceptualized. Video games are just such an innately different medium from television, movies, and music. You can't just fire them up in the background while doing housework or productivity on the computer, or even just scrolling social media. The active attention gaming demands is simply much higher than your typical other non-gaming media.
Also, even the shortest modern games these days, outside of MP-centric titles you can fire up for quick sessions, take at least a couple hours to complete. That's the length of most blockbuster and indie films, and we're talking about mainly very small indie games with that type of length. The type of games Game Pass did not predicate its main driving value off of. Even with MP-centric titles, you can certainly play them for 30 minutes or whatever but to get good at them in the first place, you're spending dozens upon dozens of hours grinding to master the mechanics and move up ranks.
I don't know if MS thought there was a market of hundreds of millions of casuals who'd have the same time investment as the ultra hardcore minority who like playing every AAA and beating them as quickly as possible, but if they did, they were wrong in 2017 and still wrong about that in 2025. Besides, that type of ultra hardcore player is going to want the platform or platforms that offer them as many of the big AAA titles as possible, and Xbox completely screwed up there through most of XBO's lifecycle and even during the first few years of Series S & X. For that type of player, the platforms of choice became PS4, PS5, and PC (and for those into Nintendo games, Switch). In all those cases, the ultra hardcore who'd otherwise be a fit for something like Game Pass (in theory) got all the multiplats Xbox had, plus the exclusives of those systems simply absent from Microsoft's ecosystem.
So, MS's first mistake with Game Pass was conflating a maybe 5-8 million ultra hardcore market segment with a 100 million casual market to pitch their "Netflix of gaming" model to. The other mistake was underestimating the preference of hardcore & core gamers in preferring to buy individual games. There are a lot of core gamers who don't need or even want to play every single game released, but they have their specific favorites they have no problem purchasing at release. So, the pitch of a service promising tons of games they don't care about, does nothing for them. This was true in 2017, and it's still true today.
I don't have concrete market research data to back up this position, but it's something I've arrived at after years of observing the growth, stall, and decline of Game Pass as a service, and tying that with information MS have both shared and obfuscated (including timing into when they did these things). It all adds up. IMO if a "Netflix of gaming" service wants to be successful, and we're talking about B2P games here, I think the only option is to do per-game subscription model types. Logistically implementing that would get complicated I guess, but these are major corporations who should have the talent able to handle the task. That's probably where the future of the B2P market goes honestly; it'll have to be something to address the increasing costs for games while not completely cratering the AAA market's revenue by cutting out everyone aside the more affluent income-rich customers. The AAA market can't survive without blue-collar customers.
No. It just means he's probably stupid.
They've already diminished Game Pass's value by splitting up offerings in additional tiers while removing content from lower-priced tiers. At one point, you got Day 1 access for every Game Pass tier. Now it's only available for Game Pass Ultimate.
And even there, a lot of games it's not "really" Day 1 because those who preorder get their version a few days early. All of this, while prices across all tiers have increased.
Technically something like that already exists: Atari's Antstream, and FWIW Xbox did add it recently to one of the Game Pass tiers IIRC. I guess it's neat for what it is, tho considering a lot of those games have been in dollar-bin anthology collections and cheapo retro consoles for decades, maybe not that impressive.
I'd give it more weight if it included more of the latter Atari ST, Falcon, and '90s Atari arcade games. Or maybe they could pull a Nintendo and finish up cancelled games like Black Ice, White Noise.
Outside of that, an a-la carte indie/retro subscription service isn't an inherently bad idea. Nintendo kind of basically do that with retro games through NSO+, and I guess they've generally been the best at it. Tho, they also have other companies' retro systems there too like SEGA and NEC/Hudson. SIE's is decent, but they've been pretty slow in a lot of cases to add obvious titles, and I think there's a lot more they could be doing like adding network functionality to more titles, or doing English translations for Japan-only releases that should be experienced by more people. Even working with fan translators to bring some of that stuff to the Classic catalog would be nice, but they haven't done it yet.
There could be an opportunity in it for Valve to offer that type of service with indie titles specifically, if they meet certain criteria and whatnot. Though, they already tend to do a lot for indies and have Early Access, plus do demos during summer gaming festivals, so maybe they'd be less interested in a subscription service-type model for indies that's a-la carte.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
So Helldivers 2 is worth more than most of Microsoft's studios and fired talent?
Did you think this out far enough or just put it out for a quick gotcha?
Also imagine another platform holder potentially going into an extremely stupid strategy as a coping mechanism for a different platform holder's multiplat & acquisition strategy causing a death spiral we're witnessing in real-time.
"Our ship is sinking but yours might be sinking, too!! Haha!!!"
another shill insulted by a dev
Destin gonna cry while binging on a box of stale cookies tonight.
And it's not even over yet.
Oh yeah. John Romero's game is cancelled and the studio shut down. That just happened today, right after a holiday no less.
We'll probably hear more throughout next week.
IMO they're going to have cuts, but no full studio closure. NT bring motion capture and graphics expertise to Microsoft, so they have value outside of just making their own games.
A studio like Compulsion offers no such benefit, which is why I'm still expecting that studio to be shut down either this month or before the year ends. Even a Turn 10-style gutting is effectively their end as a games studio with autonomy to make their own games.
Eight years for South of Mid was basically a death sentence, the reaper is just busy with other things ATM.
All of them, for the most hardcore of denialists.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
This isn't new though:
Not every Xbox One game is coming to PC, says Phil Spencer
Microsoft promises that the Xbox One will still have its fair share of platform exclusives.www.tweaktown.com
More from 2016:
The Xbox E3 2016 Briefing: Everything You Need to Know - Xbox Wire
Today, at the Xbox E3 2016 Briefing, Team Xbox unveiled a new family of Xbox One devices, a host of new Xbox Live features and the biggest lineup of games in Xbox history. Head of Xbox Phil Spencer underscored the Xbox team’s commitment to building a future of gaming beyond console generations...news.xbox.com
At this stage I can only conclude that these guys (Destin & Co) are utter idiots. This has been going on for well over 10 years now.
Well part of being a shill is that you must also, by necessity, also be an idiot.
Geoff won't do that, I think last year they had a show at the Microsoft Theater in....Nevada was it? That was the same TGAs where the hilarious Samsung xCloud ads made their debut.
As for games media talking about these layoffs with some honesty for a change, don't expect it to last. The Tuesday layoffs were the big opening salvo; while there will likely be even more studio closures and waves of layoffs over the next few weeks, that will be spread out to a point where the media will convince themselves "those" shutdowns/layoffs didn't happen. Or, that they aren't worth talking about since they already did their "duty" talking about the huge wave of layoffs & shutdowns earlier this week.
And the only reason they did some honest reporting this time is because these types of layoffs & studio closures, you simply can't pretend that is good for the industry or that gamers in the very moment the news comes out, are willing to accept being lied to that it's a good thing. The games media also know there are big streamers & influencers who AREN'T paid-off shills, that will say the truth and have bigger fanbases than many of these games websites do. So they don't want to give those influencers yet another reason to make an example out of them.
Last time MS did major layoffs like this, we saw rounds of it over a period of weeks. Just this week John Romero's studio closure was announced on a Saturday, when the other stuff was on a Tuesday.
We'll get more next week, and the week after, and probably spilling over into early August.
Not interesting, just disgusting.
laynelane
Member
It's apparent that Phil and his merry band of incompetents have been fucking up for years now - and have created a situation where the higher-ups at MS are stepping in (Nadella, Hood, etc.) due to necessity (ie. unending greed). However, those higher-ups don't interact with shills on twitter and so are easy targets to direct everyone's anger at. Aside from that, we yet again get to see a new narrative being born. This one's probably got some staying power too since more layoffs and closures are coming.
dead monkey uk
Member
Project mara might be cancelled for all we know. If HB2 does not sell on PS5 would anyone be surprised if Ninja Theory got shut in 6 months. It could be 5 years before they are ready to release another game (interactive experience)
I would also be very nervous if I was working on Contriband or State of Decay 3.
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reinking
Gold Member
For some.... ...it will only be considered a disaster if one P3rson is fired.
The biggest "i told you so" in gaming history.
Podcasters, certain media, and influencers can all go fuck themselves. Gamepass has tiers and youd never know that reading or listening to anything online. No other game company has the amount of and depth of online influence in so many forms. It has always been artificial to me. The discussions around all of their acquisitions was all so glaring. They are either following a script or completely out of their depth to discuss these topics with any ounce of legitimacy.
To terminate these people just before a holiday, some without any notice or heads up, is just repulsive. All due to a new fiscal year and to please shareholders.
Podcasters, certain media, and influencers can all go fuck themselves. Gamepass has tiers and youd never know that reading or listening to anything online. No other game company has the amount of and depth of online influence in so many forms. It has always been artificial to me. The discussions around all of their acquisitions was all so glaring. They are either following a script or completely out of their depth to discuss these topics with any ounce of legitimacy.
To terminate these people just before a holiday, some without any notice or heads up, is just repulsive. All due to a new fiscal year and to please shareholders.
Topher
Identifies as young
Nydius
Member
digoutyoursoul
Member
First Terry Myerson was the sole villain now it's the Sataya and Amy tag team.
They won't name Spencer because he's affable at events and interviews to journalists.
On VGCs podcast yesterday they said he has done a good job, never give one reason why and said he was good to talk to. Matt Booty didn't spare their wrath , he should of gone apparently.
Maybe the Booty isn't as good to interview. K'n unbelievable.
They won't name Spencer because he's affable at events and interviews to journalists.
On VGCs podcast yesterday they said he has done a good job, never give one reason why and said he was good to talk to. Matt Booty didn't spare their wrath , he should of gone apparently.
Maybe the Booty isn't as good to interview. K'n unbelievable.
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//DEVIL//
Member
I don't usually post on Twitter. I think people there are freaks, so I avoid it. but If I see Phil trying to post anything positive about the xbox, I just honestly feel I need to cuss the fuck out of him. him and the CEO Dhalsim.
Just tell them Shut the Fuck up and don't post anything anymore.
Just tell them Shut the Fuck up and don't post anything anymore.
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ChorizoPicozo
Member
he is doing damage control again. MS spent 80B on ABK and they expect the gaming division to make money.... how unrealistic is that?
mayham2199
Member
I've heard him say 30% profit margins. Which I don't think any gaming company has that.
Topher
Identifies as young
Ah.....I get it. His angle is to blame Nadella and Hood and protect Spencer and company. Same with his article.
LordCBH
Member
I imagine there might be a SoM port for PS5 in the pipeline, which might be why they dodged this past weeks bullet.
DForce
NaughtyDog Defense Force
I said months ago that Microsoft would significantly downsize within the next 4-5 years because studios are now going to have to stand on their own.
I'm going to bet that Ninja Theory is going to close down after they're done porting Hellblade 2 to the PlayStation 5. Their biggest franchises will be the only ones left standing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they put less focus on smaller titles.
I'm going to bet that Ninja Theory is going to close down after they're done porting Hellblade 2 to the PlayStation 5. Their biggest franchises will be the only ones left standing.
I wouldn't be surprised if they put less focus on smaller titles.
Mr Moose
Member
ChorizoPicozo
Member
You are ignorant vibes. I'm starting to believe Jez is not a real person but some kind of experiment made by Phil.
EDIT:
Also_
....and the Game Pass gamble hasn't paid off yet
Yet?
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Topher
Identifies as young
LordCBH
Member
If Jez is artificial, then it's likely a product of Co-Pilot because co-pilot is the dumbest fucking AI.
rickybooby87
Member
Spending 100billion on acquisitions will for sure bring the entire games division into the spotlight and draw further scrutiny from the board/shareholders. I think Phil has good intentions, but daddy Satya and mommy Hood are calling the shots now.
Moridianae
Member
I don't think they'd dare to even try after everything they've done since the ABK acquisition.
They testified multiple times that this wouldn't result in massive layoffs(which aren't done according to Sneaker) and have effectively proven themselves liars to federal courts multiple times now. ABK and Bethesda both hit by big layoffs.
Sure, nothing will happen to them *for* that, but any oversight committees will absolutely shoot down any other major buyout they'll try and do based on what they've now done.
You need therapy man
SILKYSMOOTH30FPS
Banned
Wonder how much sales they're missing out on now that CoD is on GP. Actually probably not as much as i thought since most sales are on the ps5.
Imagine spending around 100 billion dollars in the last few years to support Xbox then some fanboy journalist who has been using your company's name to get paid jumps on the Internet running his mouth because things are not going his way 
Xbox team is in debt the higher ups has every right to step in & make changes someone has to show that it's not just a money pit someone has to show a 10 year plan that will bring in money.
Xbox team is in debt the higher ups has every right to step in & make changes someone has to show that it's not just a money pit someone has to show a 10 year plan that will bring in money.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
What is this unrealistic expectation? Telling us instead of vaguely hinting towards it would be nice.
Moridianae
Member
This might be part of what S SneakersSO was talking about when he said things were far worse than the things we've seen announced.
Topher
Identifies as young
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laynelane
Member
There it is. Now all that remains to be seen is just how common this talking point becomes. I've noticed with certain twitter shills, Xbox's issue are always put on another party. It was Sony not too long ago (although Xbox and even Nadella "let us compete" threw their hats into the ring) and now it's the upper echelon at MS. Not to say that AI isn't a part of this issue, but it's more complicated than that - and has been for years and years now ie. all the years that Xbox has been faltering and dwindling in market share.
drganon
Banned
It's never Phil's fault. It's always something or someone else. They really have let themselves be completely scammed by the equivalent of a used car salesman.
panda-zebra
Member
How about something stupidly arbitrary like having 30% of *everything* aided by AI to justify MS's continued tolerance.
Or maybe something far more simple after a quarter of a century... every branch of every limb ends up in the black or out comes the axe.
It's sure to be something that binds creative hands and adds unwanted duress whatever it is, shit that promotes the kind of working conditions shit games are born from.
Nonehxc
Member
Yep.
They received their new marching orders. A few days ago they were making the Turtle
against all the flaming rightly dropped on Xbox and them, now they're all DEFEND XBROS, STUDIOS & DEVELOPERS when they saw and/or their overseers saw that the tide was going so much against them, they had to do a 180 turn and go with the flow as to not antagonize people even more, and run interference deflecting attention from the culprits, which are Phil, his buddies and, most important , the Xbox brand, which was reaping all the damage in PR. All of them in Perfect synchronicity, huh?Which doesn't substract from the result that what they're saying is true, but it's just misdirection which seems bad to Xbros( Nutella fucked my Xbox), but it's actually good (Nutella is cutting expenses on bad part so he can invest me investors more money on AI so I receive even more money).
Little obese grown kids taking potshots at Brahman Nudella, Amy Hood and the MS upper echelon is laughable and inconsequential, all the while they misdirect the attention from Uncle Phil & his Thrash Patch Kids.
This is a narrative that won't hold and I expect Tom Warren won't follow, since he is a MS Shill in general, not just Xbox, an editor in a 'information' medium and his livelihood, info channel and connections depend on not biting the hand of very rich and powerful people.
Now I expect in a few days, a week or so when the waters go down a bit so Xbox releases something akin to we're focused on delivering you great experiences and ecosystems, and all these bozos will jump in perfect synchronicity again, as always, and emit the same odorous emanations at the same time, just changing the wording a bit. It's always the same, ALWAYS, and that's how you know who's in the payroll because for informational warfare there's always a source and from there there are diseminators.
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Mr Moose
Member
Poor Phil didn't do anything wrong, he's the victim in all of this, they must protect him at all costs.
archangelmorph
Gold Member
There's like five different candy crush games, all with continuous and ongoing support.Candy crush has 2000 developers
& the studio rakes in cash.
I think they're probably well staffed for their output.
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Joel Was Right
Member
The narrative around these cuts is all wrong and overblown imo. The title, for instance, while accurate, doesn't give the full context: Microsoft has made 26k job cuts. It's closed entire businesses in India, for instance. Some of those cuts relate to Xbox, primarily as redirect funds to invest into AI.
Microsoft is just one company doing this.
But people have turned it into "Xbox job cuts" and a reflection of the entire Xbox division over the last decade, conveniently ignoring the fact that they literally invested 80b into it a few years ago, and despite poor sales, committed more hardware next gen.
I think the real story here is despite Microsoft's insane levels of investment into a platform that isn't growing, it is not shielding it from company wide cuts.
Microsoft is just one company doing this.
But people have turned it into "Xbox job cuts" and a reflection of the entire Xbox division over the last decade, conveniently ignoring the fact that they literally invested 80b into it a few years ago, and despite poor sales, committed more hardware next gen.
I think the real story here is despite Microsoft's insane levels of investment into a platform that isn't growing, it is not shielding it from company wide cuts.
Spank_Magnet
The Male Lewinsky
Anecdotally this goes back even further than that. I remember an interview with ID and they were asked why the final level of the original Quake was so underwhelming. Their response was basically "Who ever bothers to get to the end of a game?"
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
. This is mouth of Xbox v MS 
.
Spank_Magnet
The Male Lewinsky
And, as people have intimated, it may not be over yet…
Goalus
Member
If that is true, I don't understand it.
Even if the Xbox/gaming business slows down MS growth, there's other benefits it has to the company. It's their only real interface with the consumer side, and even if you look at it from a purely monetary point of view, it is a loss for the entire company to get rid of that. Extremely short-sighted imho.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Ask these shills if it was Satya or Amy's fault Series X launched without any major exclusive games or that Halo Infinite had to be delayed because it was ridiculed for a disastrous summer showing.
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kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
What? Windows is used by many, many more consumers than Xbox consoles.
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