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[jm89]

I said months ago that Microsoft would significantly downsize within the next 4-5 years because studios are now going to have to stand on their own.

I'm going to bet that Ninja Theory is going to close down after they're done porting Hellblade 2 to the PlayStation 5. Their biggest franchises will be the only ones left standing.

I wouldn't be surprised if they put less focus on smaller titles.

My guess with ninja theory they become a support studio. Iirc they do mocap, so might keep some of them around for that.

 

[jm89]

$70 billion dollars to buy abk what did they think was gonna happen?

I wouldn't be surprised if Satya is kicking him self for not using that on AI instead of ABK.

 

[jm89]

"Gamepass gamble hasn't paid off yet"

 

[Varteras]

You are ignorant vibes. I'm starting to believe Jez is not a real person but some kind of experiment made by Phil.

Honestly, I think it's really nice of Phil to show representation to the diabetes and heart disease crowd with his experiment. Good man, that Phil.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Microsoft is a virus that has infected gaming. They don't give a shit about gaming and they never have. I feel sorry for anyone seriously invested in the Xbox ecosystem. If you haven't jumped ship by now or looked for alternatives, you're totally fucked going forward. Any devs still working for them should be polishing their resumes and looking for work elsewhere....

 

[chromatic9]

There is tons of bloat, bad decisions and bad management, MS/Xbox are to blame but can understand how you have to cut loose much of it looking ahead.

The gaming landscape is changing to where it's very risky to put 5-7 years into technically advanced games, not just with dev cost but diverging base of Gen x Millennial aging out and younger gens sticking to certain simple to make titles where MTX rules. We're seeing a lot of games bomb so confidence is really low. Game concepts and designs that will have felt good 5-10 years ago you just know won't fly anymore so get canned.

AI can help a lot in getting costs down and smaller tighter teams to fine tune in the input and output. AI growth will be rapid to where games will be incredible, then to like water from a tap and only few will stand out.

 

[Elios83]

It seems like this round of layoffs has finally opened the Pandora's vase for Microsoft and lifted the veil of hypocrisy.
Seeing developers and the press finally calling them out for their bullshit and their shills being attacked it's a well deserved turn of events.

 

[MayauMiao]

I wonder if the success of Expedition 33's small size team success led to this mass firings.

 

[Drew1440]

I feel sorry for anyone seriously invested in the Xbox ecosystem.

Many titles (not all) that I purchased during the 360 era are still playable on the latest Series X, that's three generations of support for the same games. Even Steam/PC games from that era are beginning to encounter issues when playing on modern versions of Windows, some requiring patched dll files to run, with others refusing to launch on the Steam Deck.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

Many titles (not all) that I purchased during the 360 era are still playable on the latest Series X, that's three generations of support for the same games. Even Steam/PC games from that era are beginning to encounter issues when playing on modern versions of Windows, some requiring patched dll files to run, with others refusing to launch on the Steam Deck.

Backwards compatibility is one of the few bright spots at Xbox. I wasn't talking about feeling sorry from that standpoint, I'm talking about future Xbox games and traditional IPs.


Games like Forza Motorsport and PDZ which were a core part of the Xbox identity and are now dead. If you're someone that grew up playing Xbox and loved those games things are looking pretty shitty now. No studio or franchise is safe from the Microsoft axe. Turn 10 was the first studio created by MS and one of the most consistent if not the most consistent. If they aren't safe from the MS axe and their IP getting shuttered, none of the traditional MS studios or IPs are safe. Any IP that stumbles or doesn't perform according to their insane standards will be cut and the studio shut down or relegated to becoming a support studio like Turn 10.

 

[GHG]

Even Steam/PC games from that era are beginning to encounter issues when playing on modern versions of Windows, some requiring patched dll files to run, with others refusing to launch on the Steam Deck.

Name the games.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

AI can help a lot in getting costs down and smaller tighter teams to fine tune in the input and output. AI growth will be rapid to where games will be incredible, then to like water from a tap and only few will stand out.

I don't disagree, but…

- AI isn't developing Perfect Dark, it's dead

- AI isn't developing Everwild, it's dead

- AI isn't developing Forza 9, it's dead

AI isn't replacing these developers, for the foreseeable it's a tool to be used by artists and testers

 

[ComboBongo]

Yup - Halos are coming over.

As in current or the new ones? I still wonder what will happen to 5 and Infinite if MCC goes over.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

As in current or the new ones? I still wonder what will happen to 5 and Infinite if MCC goes over.

 

[Goalus]

What? Windows is used by many, many more consumers than Xbox consoles.

Missed that, but my point is still valid. I don't think you can become as emotionally attached to an OS as to a video game brand.

 

[Mr Moose]

Missed that, but my point is still valid. I don't think you can become as emotionally attached to an OS as to a video game brand.

Tell that to Windows XP/7.

 

[NickFire]

What is this unrealistic expectation? Telling us instead of vaguely hinting towards it would be nice.

I'd guess a simple profit margin requirement, with an express or implied mandate to cut overhead via AI where possible.

 

[ProtoByte]

If that is true, I don't understand it.
Even if the Xbox/gaming business slows down MS growth, there's other benefits it has to the company. It's their only real interface with the consumer side, and even if you look at it from a purely monetary point of view, it is a loss for the entire company to get rid of that. Extremely short-sighted imho.

Xbox is a money sink. They don't need it at all. Nadella must be kicking himself for ever listening to Phil instead of just shitcanning the entire division in 2017.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Through all of this… I have to be honest. I still love my Series X and will be paying very, very close attention to any successor that comes out of this AMD partnership. Although at this point I understand that things are evolving behind the scenes. And they have already stopped using the language "biggest technological leap in a single generation", as we stopped hearing that line about a year ago, now.

But I'm not convinced I'm done with Xbox hardware at this point. I'd like to see how the next 1-2 years go.

 

[Dr. Samuel Hayden]

Nadella, Hood, Spencer, Booty etc. are all part of the same cancer cabal. It's just that the latter are the bitchboy henchmen the former send out to do their bidding.

 

[Moridianae]

I think the next thing we're going to see is an Game Pass price increase. I seem to remember reading that another one was imminent very soon.

I just feel like that becomes a problem for them also. There's a certain limit to a price for a thing like that. If you're not obtaining any growth for it, even with CoD, continuing to up the price isnt going to help either.

 

[Topher]

I think the next thing we're going to see is an Game Pass price increase. I seem to remember reading that another one was imminent very soon.

I just feel like that becomes a problem for them also. There's a certain limit to a price for a thing like that. If you're not obtaining any growth for it, even with CoD, continuing to up the price isnt going to help either.

I wonder if BLOPS6 performance with Game Pass in the mix is a big reason for all of this. Lots of journos are pointing fingers at Amy Hood right now. She is CFO so if she is looking at the numbers and not liking them then we very well may see a bit more than just a price hike for Game Pass. Could be the end of day one games on the service or a day one only with Ultimate. Either way, I think the "value" aspect of Game Pass is about to take pretty big hit.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

I wonder if BLOPS6 performance with Game Pass in the mix is a big reason for all of this. Lots of journos are pointing fingers at Amy Hood right now. She is CFO so if she is looking at the numbers and not liking them then we very well may see a bit more than just a price hike for Game Pass. Could be the end of day one games on the service or a day one only with Ultimate. Either way, I think the "value" aspect of Game Pass is about to take pretty big hit.

What I posted last Sept from the rumor mill

They really think the new Call of Duty will move the needle with Gamepass but rumor has it if it doesn't changes will be made

 

[Pop]

Next Halo is def multiplat that is realistic

But Is MCC coming to Playstation? Or is just Infinite

 

[Topher]

What I posted last Sept from the rumor mill

COD on Game Pass really was the ultimate test. At that point, the question is no longer is Game Pass "sustainable". The question becomes is Game Pass able to hit expected results from a $70 billion acquisition. For a company as hellbent on bowing to every stockholder whim as Microsoft is, the feeling around here and elsewhere that there are some incredibly tough times ahead for Xbox do not seem unwarranted at all.

 

[Nydius]

I wonder if BLOPS6 performance with Game Pass in the mix is a big reason for all of this. Lots of journos are pointing fingers at Amy Hood right now. She is CFO so if she is looking at the numbers and not liking them then we very well may see a bit more than just a price hike for Game Pass. Could be the end of day one games on the service or a day one only with Ultimate. Either way, I think the "value" aspect of Game Pass is about to take pretty big hit.

Agreed on all counts. Sorta repeating what I wrote in a different thread last night, the ABK acquisition was the worst thing to happen to Xbox because spending that kind of money, and getting months of negative press — not just in gaming outlets but also mainstream media — while fighting for the acquisition in two separate courts absolutely earned the ire of Microsoft's top brass.

Any hope Microsoft had of trying to acquire or absorb any smaller AI tech industries now has to deal with the black eye the Xbox division gave them during the ABK acquisition. Microsoft wants to see ROI out of a brand they've been propping up for two decades and they want it SOON.

I fully expect Game Pass Ultimate to be around 24.99 USD/month by the end of the year or spring of next year.

 

[LuckyLuke]

Game Pass will very likely be scaled back and take on a less central role in Xbox's strategic direction.

 

[Topher]

Agreed on all counts. Sorta repeating what I wrote in a different thread last night, the ABK acquisition was the worst thing to happen to Xbox because spending that kind of money, and getting months of negative press — not just in gaming outlets but also mainstream media — while fighting for the acquisition in two separate courts absolutely earned the ire of Microsoft's top brass.

Any hope Microsoft had of trying to acquire or absorb any smaller AI tech industries now has to deal with the black eye the Xbox division gave them during the ABK acquisition. Microsoft wants to see ROI out of a brand they've been propping up for two decades and they want it SOON.

I fully expect Game Pass Ultimate to be around 24.99 USD/month by the end of the year or spring of next year.

Yep. Good points on the longer term effects of the long drawn out acquisition process. I imagine the number of subscribers targeted post-ABK acquisition is probably many times higher than what they actually are to get to the ROI they envisioned. I think what Microsoft is finding out is that the most popular franchise in video games right now isn't financially compatible with a $12 monthly fee. When Game Pass was created, Microsoft was fighting to regain lost market share in a console war. That failed miserably but instead of rethinking the strategy entirely, they just tweaked prices and tiers. And then tried to shoehorn COD into it and now here come the consequences. Probably should have said from the beginning that ABK won't be a part of Game Pass. Keep GP around for the XGS and Bethesda stuff.

 

[ComboBongo]

Next Halo is def multiplat that is realistic

But Is MCC coming to Playstation? Or is just Infinite

That's the thing. It wouldn't make any sense for it to just be Infinite without the previous titles.

 

[GHG]

Game Pass will very likely be scaled back and take on a less central role in Xbox's strategic direction.

I've said it before but IMO the only way any of these services can work from a financial perspective as far as "day one" titles goes is to either make it 1st party only, or a 3rd party only service with a reduced/limited catalogue.

We've already seen both EA and Ubisoft go down a similar path in terms of the evolution of their respective services. Both used to include 3rd party games, but they have since been scaled back to only include their own 1st party catalogues. Both also happen to operate across 2 tiers of subscription, one for day 1 and one for only the back catalogue. So in that respect it can be argued that Gamepass is already trending in a similar direction anyway.

Absent of being able to consistently retain an obscene number of subscribers (100-150m), the content acquisition and maintenance costs become prohibitively expensive, especially when those costs are split across running their own studios as well as deals with 3rd party publishers.

 

[Moridianae]

That's the thing. It wouldn't make any sense for it to just be Infinite without the previous titles.

I trust Sneaker when he says they are coming over. I assume that also means MCC; I know that it had issues, but I think there's a market for it, considering how well most of the ports have done(Forza, Indiana, and I'm sure Gears will do well also).

If there was ever a time to revisit and focus on it being improved for the port to Playstation(and probably Switch 2 at least for MCC) it'd be now. Seems they have a new trend of "Enhanced Editions" as evidenced by Hellblade coming, so it could happen here.

 

[SneakersSO]

Xbox is a money sink. They don't need it at all. Nadella must be kicking himself for ever listening to Phil instead of just shitcanning the entire division in 2017.

To be honest, had that scenario happened in 2017/2018, Microsoft, namely Windows, would be in a far worse state than they are now, but this one of those relationships they really didn't buy into all that much until the last year or so.

Allowing gaming performance on Windows to basically degrade for a decade has opened the demand from PC-centric consumers for OS alternatives and solutions that they simply wouldn't have cared for 5 or 10 years ago. I'm not just talking about SteamOS. I believe the last paper I read doing market analysis on this, something like 400m previous Windows users have simply vanished into other ecosystems or device ecosystems where Windows simply isn't present, like mobile or tablets, or even gaming on MacOS, although that is still a very small market.

The broader analysis is that Microsoft has certainly taken its dominant position as an OS for gaming for granted, and are only now trying to fix so much of the flexibility and UX of Windows in the face of true competition.

Game Pass will very likely be scaled back and take on a less central role in Xbox's strategic direction.

Game Pass' funding got a massive scale back not long after ABK went through. Most of what we're still seeing are deals that were penned prior to that. I imagine these cuts are going to increase even further as MS looks for funding to dump into their AI stake.

I've said it before but IMO the only way any of these services can work from a financial perspective as far as "day one" titles goes is to either make it 1st party only, or a 3rd party only service with a reduced/limited catalogue.

We've already seen both EA and Ubisoft go down a similar path in terms of the evolution of their respective services. Both used to include 3rd party games, but they have since been scaled back to only include their own 1st party catalogues. Both also happen to operate across 2 tiers of subscription, one for day 1 and one for only the back catalogue. So in that respect it can be argued that Gamepass is already trending in a similar direction anyway.

Absent of being able to consistently retain an obscene number of subscribers (100-150m), the content acquisition and maintenance costs become prohibitively expensive, especially when those costs are split across running their own studios as well as deals with 3rd party publishers.

I've seen folks bring up both EA and Ubisoft into this because they both have similar 1st party, day 1 services, and yet everyone seems to ignore the elephant in the room: neither EA or Ubisoft are in anything resembling a stable financial position. Look into whats going on with these pubs; Ubisoft is looking to spin-off its more lucrative IP and projects into a separate company that isn't bringing on their debt while also closing teams and canning projects, all while taking on massive investment from outside publishers, while EA is in such a precarious position that not even their sports titles are able to cover up for the losses anymore. Consider that the expectation for Battlefield is 100m users - thats an insane metric to be banking on for a franchise that, at its height, wasn't even able to do a quarter of that.

Both Nintendo and Sony have done well with services that are basically giving access to back-catalogs of titles, or as a highlighting/marketing service for new indie releases. This, imo, was always the strength of Game Pass, only it was saddled with the financial burdens of Day 1 AAA releases.

 

[rm082e]

What I posted last Sept from the rumor mill

It's mind boggling they thought COD - a 20+ year old franchise - was going to be the catalyst for Game Pass. The people who are down to play the yearly games have already been comfortable buying it for years.

 

[chromatic9]

MS has always had this conflict of interests with console and PC. After a strong stance with Xbox 360 exclusive support, the gaming public side of windows OS had threats of Vulkan and Steam OS 10-15 years ago. There was a lot of anger about windows costing too much in performance between DX10-11, there was demand to move to a gaming OS back then with the draw call stuff.

 

[Baemono]

Well, part of the motivator that drove MS to start releasing titles outside of the Xbox eco was to release SW in places where GP wasn't already available, all so they could get a much higher margin on those titles, and it certainly did work. Indiana Jones' PS5 release was a tremendous success for the team and game, for example. Once project latitude was decided upon internally, the drive to try and expand GP onto other platforms, like Steam or PSN or Nintendo, basically evaporated overnight. It hasn't been brought up since then.

it's sad to see that they had to put their own software elsewhere to start selling them, a problem self-created

 

[Loboxxx]

-- Xbox Game Studios ---

 

[Human 2.0]

Yep. Good points on the longer term effects of the long drawn out acquisition process. I imagine the number of subscribers targeted post-ABK acquisition is probably many times higher than what they actually are to get to the ROI they envisioned. I think what Microsoft is finding out is that the most popular franchise in video games right now isn't financially compatible with a $12 monthly fee. When Game Pass was created, Microsoft was fighting to regain lost market share in a console war. That failed miserably but instead of rethinking the strategy entirely, they just tweaked prices and tiers. And then tried to shoehorn COD into it and now here come the consequences. Probably should have said from the beginning that ABK won't be a part of Game Pass. Keep GP around for the XGS and Bethesda stuff.

But they said from the outset that the reason why they were buying ABK was for COD and for content for GamePass.

It seems to me that ever since XBOX launched the only time they ever seemed to have anything resembling a realistic plan was the first few years of the 360 era right up until they launch Kinect. All down hill from there.

They haven't got the slightest clue what they're doing.

 

[Topher]

But they said from the outset that the reason why they were buying ABK was for COD and for content for GamePass.

It seems to me that ever since XBOX launched the only time they ever seemed to have anything resembling a realistic plan was the first few years of the 360 era right up until they launch Kinect. All down hill from there.

They haven't got the slightest clue what they're doing.

Believe they said that to regulators to help push the acquisition through. MS also said the acquisition wouldn't cause GP to increase in price, but right before COD was released on GP, they did exactly that. Xbox execs have acted like Game Pass was going to be some magic bullet that was going to be this massive service with 100+ million subs. I think you are right. They didn't have a clue.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

I wanted to single this post out, simply because I have seen folks discuss this OEM, open-storefront Xbox console with some hopeful overtones, and while I think if you're into tech and utilize multiple storefronts, or even have been interested in streamlining the experience of getting a more PC-like device hooked up to your TV, then this is certainly going to be a device that may appeal to you, but I don't feel like anyone has really dived into the business realities of this device, both for the device itself and for the expectations that team Xbox is placing on this, and what it actually means for the Xbox platform. So if you will, please indulge my needlessly wordy ass.

So lets start with the expectation from Microsoft. From what I have gathered, I think if anyone thinks that Xbox or MS themselves expect this thing to 'take-off', allow me to dash that notion here and now. This is not a device intended to take off, even in the markets that MS has done well in historically (although they are far weaker in them now - NA/UK). Its going to be both expensive enough and supply constrained, enough so as to ensure the possibility of it 'taking-off' is never going to be met. Now, thats not by design, but its more reflective of how scaled back HW-related departments have become at Microsoft overall. Xbox was absolutely entering the XSS/X deluding themselves with the idea that they could make up ground in their previously dominant markets, but those voices who were 'fighting' in that way have both had change of hearts, and many of them have been outright silenced as new leadership ascended since the ABK close. Much like launching multiplayer focused titles or a battle royale, launching HW is harder now than its ever been, and even harder in a largely calcified market, but what really hinders MS here is that they basically handcuffed their capability to actually move HW.

Since before the X1 dropped, Microsoft has really scaled back their foreign offices who would be responsible not just for the actual operations of launching HW, but also creating regional relationships with retailers, local marketers, and ostencibly, consumers. Since 2013, launching HW has subsequently gotten increasingly expensive and operationally daunting. The expectations of whats necessary to do so have only climbed, thanks in part to how the mobile market expanded the reach of their devices in that 2012 -2023 time span. Sony and Nintendo spent much of the last 2 generations doing everything they could to broaden their foreign-market reach and penetration, and it rewarded them handsomely for it. Scaling back those operations has always been an easy target for Xbox given they were already underperforming in those regions, and as their budget keeps getting slashed going into the Gamepass Initiative in 2018, it makes sense to focus on where its easier for you to sell.

When we talk about MS getting their retailer margin eaten into if folks chose to use non-Xbox storefronts on this device, to MS, the calculation is simply to just get that per-consumer-dollar-average on the front-end of the transaction, when you buy the console, versus the lifecycle of the machine. So if its not being setup to take off really, then why even go down this route? The answer is the expansion of WindowsOS. Thats the real get here.

The XboxOS, and by extension Xbox as a SKU in general, has always been at odds with Windows as an Operating System. Xbox games aren't quite a WindowsOS app, and MS has done loads to bridge this gap over the decades, but no initiative has truly taken off. Part of this is because the Xbox marketshare itself is directly tied to XboxOS, whereas PC users kind of exist in this no-man's-land - the games have to run as Win32 executables but outside of that, its whatever storefront or SKU that floats your boat. SteamOS and the advent of PC-handheld devices changed all this though. Now, on the one hand, PC Handhelds are a tiny market. If you cut the Steam Deck out of it, it is basically between 500k or 1.5m by best estimates. Steam Deck is effectively the PC-handheld market. But Steam Deck, and more specifically SteamOS, is honestly positioned to basically steal from Microsoft this massive PC userbase that depends on an operating system to run their games. This SteamOS stuff is something I highlighted last year, but hearing about this as a potential threat has only increased in recent times internally.

So, why go this route then? Its a simple answer - its basically an effort to gradually kill off the XboxOS sku/line of releases. It'll be the first console from Xbox where you don't have to produce an XboxOS sku of a game in order to be available on that platform. Its not that the XboxOS line is a pain point or something, but having a SKU means folks have to support it to be viable, and if you're projecting that you're gonna gut things like your 3rd party GP budget, which wound up becoming a sort of slush fund for getting Xbox ports made, then you need to at some point face the music that said SKU is decreasingly unviable, and thats just simple truth at this point.

This is why MS is putting such an emphasis on boosting game performance on base Windows OS, both for non-desktop devices and for desktop usage, as well as making a Xbox UI/UX 'wrapper' for the HandHeld WindowsOS. Obviously, the question of 'what about my pre-existing Xbox library?', and thats certainly why they are driving so much effort into emulation and backwards compatibility and further strengthening those capabilities for the existing Xbox library while they also seek to make 'WindowsOS' the future of MS gaming.

This is gold

Many here have reached these conclusions with understanding the reasoning behind.

Thanks for putting things so clear and eloquently.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

There are a variety of market factors affecting the Western Games Industry right now, driven significantly by MS but also just how capital markets and the games industry have intersected for decades at this point finally reaching a boiling point.

I'm assuming these issues aren't affecting the Asian gaming industry, particularly Japan where the likes of Capcom seem to be very healthy.

Am I correct?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

To be honest, had that scenario happened in 2017/2018, Microsoft, namely Windows, would be in a far worse state than they are now, but this one of those relationships they really didn't buy into all that much until the last year or so.

Allowing gaming performance on Windows to basically degrade for a decade has opened the demand from PC-centric consumers for OS alternatives and solutions that they simply wouldn't have cared for 5 or 10 years ago. I'm not just talking about SteamOS. I believe the last paper I read doing market analysis on this, something like 400m previous Windows users have simply vanished into other ecosystems or device ecosystems where Windows simply isn't present, like mobile or tablets, or even gaming on MacOS, although that is still a very small market.

The broader analysis is that Microsoft has certainly taken its dominant position as an OS for gaming for granted, and are only now trying to fix so much of the flexibility and UX of Windows in the face of true competition.

Game Pass' funding got a massive scale back not long after ABK went through. Most of what we're still seeing are deals that were penned prior to that. I imagine these cuts are going to increase even further as MS looks for funding to dump into their AI stake.

I've seen folks bring up both EA and Ubisoft into this because they both have similar 1st party, day 1 services, and yet everyone seems to ignore the elephant in the room: neither EA or Ubisoft are in anything resembling a stable financial position. Look into whats going on with these pubs; Ubisoft is looking to spin-off its more lucrative IP and projects into a separate company that isn't bringing on their debt while also closing teams and canning projects, all while taking on massive investment from outside publishers, while EA is in such a precarious position that not even their sports titles are able to cover up for the losses anymore. Consider that the expectation for Battlefield is 100m users - thats an insane metric to be banking on for a franchise that, at its height, wasn't even able to do a quarter of that.

Both Nintendo and Sony have done well with services that are basically giving access to back-catalogs of titles, or as a highlighting/marketing service for new indie releases. This, imo, was always the strength of Game Pass, only it was saddled with the financial burdens of Day 1 AAA releases.

Gamepass should never have allowed Day 1. It should have been a $9.99 per month or $100 per year with discounts that had more of less the PS Plus model, where all first party games come to the service a year later.

 

[Det]

$70 billion dollars to buy abk what did they think was gonna happen?

I wouldn't be surprised if Satya is kicking him self for not using that on AI instead of ABK.

Maybe Phil had promised Nadella that they would monopolize the market and make profits like Office with a monopoly and only then were they authorized to spend ~100 billion on purchases.

Now they have to integrate profits as if they had monopolized the market

 

[Unknown Soldier]

 

[semiconscious]

It seems to me that ever since XBOX launched the only time they ever seemed to have anything resembling a realistic plan was the first few years of the 360 era right up until they launch Kinect. All down hill from there....

blame it on 'embrace, extend, extinguish':

"Embrace, extend, and extinguish" (EEE), also known as "embrace, extend, and exterminate, is a phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found was used internally by Microsoft to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used open standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and using the differences to strongly disadvantage its competitors...

when they were going against sony & nintendo on equal terms, head-to-head, all was well. it's been their attempt to 'extend' (first with kinect, & then on to game pass) that's when they began hitting the wall...

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

blame it on 'embrace, extend, extinguish':



when they were going against sony & nintendo on equal terms, head-to-head, all was well. it's been their attempt to 'extend' (first with kinect, & then on to game pass) that's when they began hitting the wall...

I see this phrase used a lot EEE, but how does it apply to MS efforts in gaming?

 

[SneakersSO]

I'm assuming these issues aren't affecting the Asian gaming industry, particularly Japan where the likes of Capcom seem to be very healthy.

Am I correct?

Its not just Capcom, but Capcom is a sterling example, as is Nintendo, Sega, or Bamco. And even outside of just Japan, we're currently seeing the advent of very strong dev scenes in Korea and China who are enjoying very good returns on their releases, while the actual cost of making those projects is very low compared to what we have put into our budgets in the West, and thats nothing to say of the returns on the more 'gacha'-style games and such.

Its not like its total roses in the East though, although I would definitely describe the Western games industry as going through a funding crash, whereas I wouldn't say the Eastern side of game dev is in anything resembling that. Capcom alone has spent the last 2 years expanding their workforce and increased the base salary pay of all positions by solid percentages. Just the way these companies wield their back catalog is so running laps around Western game devs.

Gamepass should never have allowed Day 1. It should have been a $9.99 per month or $100 per year with discounts that had more of less the PS Plus model, where all first party games come to the service a year later.

Ya know, people forget this but GamePass originally was not going to have Day 1 releases on it. When it was first put out, it had a collection of already released titles, and then after some folks signed up, they were having some pre-release concerns with Sea of Thieves and decided to throw it into the service Day 1 to have both things increase interest in one another.

Once they saw interest and engagement in SoT spike, they made the kneejerk decision to do all first party as day 1 releases. When they first did budget proposals and pitched game pass, Day 1 releases were never part of the equation. They just leaned into what fans online reacted to thinking that enthusiasm would make up the difference.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Microsoft is a virus that has infected gaming. They don't give a shit about gaming and they never have. I feel sorry for anyone seriously invested in the Xbox ecosystem. If you haven't jumped ship by now or looked for alternatives, you're totally fucked going forward. Any devs still working for them should be polishing their resumes and looking for work elsewhere....

For someone like Phil, who likes to follow the social media discourse around him, his narcissistic ass must be enjoying how his feed has been looking these past couple of weeks... and to think the Game Pass price hike is still around the corner. Not even the shills working overtime will save his ass this time

 

[Varteras]

Ya know, people forget this but GamePass originally was not going to have Day 1 releases on it. When it was first put out, it had a collection of already released titles, and then after some folks signed up, they were having some pre-release concerns with Sea of Thieves and decided to throw it into the service Day 1 to have both things increase interest in one another.

Once they saw interest and engagement in SoT spike, they made the kneejerk decision to do all first party as day 1 releases. When they first did budget proposals and pitched game pass, Day 1 releases were never part of the equation. They just leaned into what fans online reacted to thinking that enthusiasm would make up the difference.

Sounds pretty sloppy and irresponsible. Then again, considering the e-mails that leaked during the ABK acquisition, and based on what we've seen of Microsoft since the latter days of 360, the idea that they try to take sudden turns with a freight train at full speed shouldn't surprise me.

 

[Nydius]

I've seen folks bring up both EA and Ubisoft into this because they both have similar 1st party, day 1 services, and yet everyone seems to ignore the elephant in the room: neither EA or Ubisoft are in anything resembling a stable financial position.

Yeah, I've never understood why some people defend Game Pass by pointing at something like Ubi+ as "proof" it works when Ubisoft's been teetering on what appears to be full blown bankruptcy for a while.

I sat here and played three of their major triple-A games (Avatar, Star Wars Outlaws, AC Shadows) for less than the price of one by subscribing for three separate months. Those are multi-hundred million dollar games I played for $17.99 each rather that $60 or $70 — and that doesn't include the secondary games I played during those subscribed periods as well, like Prince of Persia or Riders Republic.

Sure, that's $53.97 more than they would have earned if I hadn't subscribed and not bought the games at all… but it's a far cry (pun unintended) from the $200+ they would have gotten had I bought all three at launch price.

Doesn't take a financial genius to realize this isn't sustainable when the budgets of these games are astronomical.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I've seen folks bring up both EA and Ubisoft into this because they both have similar 1st party, day 1 services, and yet everyone seems to ignore the elephant in the room: neither EA or Ubisoft are in anything resembling a stable financial position.

Yeah, I've never understood why some people defend Game Pass by pointing at something like Ubi+ as "proof" it works when Ubisoft's been teetering on what appears to be full blown bankruptcy for a while.

UBI is a disaster, but EA is doing fine though.

EA makes tons of money, stock is pretty much at an all time high, and they got different sub plans including a day one pro plan on PC. They've also had their EA Access/EA Play basic plan for ages, including having them bult into Xbox and PS subs too.