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[GymWolf]

Not bad for an 8 year old game:

It looks great even now yeah, i think it's gonna age better than both odissey and valhalla.

 

[SlimySnake]

"looks like a PS2 game" Well that's off to a good start. Nothing says more "I'm open to discussion" than a take like that /s. Clearly epitome of the beginning of a GDC discussion topic.

It's incredible you manage to sum pretty much everything that is wrong with the industry chasing the fucking coat of paints for the past 2 decades while they put physics and AI aside from the early 2000's.

Pretty candies that taste bad

Naughty Dog is indeed being laughed at but not because they chased DK games

Only 1 game has ever had voxel physics without remaining floating bits in the air and actually falling around, one, and its teardown, a game about just destruction and no verticality that has to remain there to get to an objective. Deeprock galactic would just pop out of existence with entire geometry out of existence and confetti particles that will transition from geometry to nothingness for the illusion once it detects no support, not really physics and again, totally different goal of gameplay mechanic in that game than a platformer. How do you design platformer levels when you can make the whole goddamn thing collapse? Make it make sense without breaking the game. You have teardown on PS5 dropping to ~15 FPS during big destruction sequences and you think a dev with an ounce of brain would say this is a good approach for Switch 2?

But here comes like what, the 3rd or 4th game with decent voxel destruction in nearly 25 years, but also one that is actually designed for the first time as a platformer/adventure and let's shit on it, pummel it to the ground and laugh at it, while we lick the balls of the devs continuing to make the 20th layers of paint on the same PS3 baseline game recipes.

Also never seen a ray-marched or dual-contouring or other smoothing techniques of voxels having falling physics, but feel free to find
winjer I doubt you would find that a solution for that in physx either, they're all cubic voxel solutions. You can't have per voxel physics and smoothing, there's 0 cases of it that I can find.

You would have teardown graphic Donkey Kong and you would just shit on it by saying it looks like Amiga pixel art brought to 3D.

Maybe PS2 is too harsh, but the textures are PS3 quality at best. Lighting a bit better, but well behind games like Uncharted, KZ, GTA etc.
Bottomline is that the game could look way better, and no im not buying the excuse that the graphics are lame because it has destruction.

 

[RodriGames40]

I think it is possible. Using deprecated and phased out tech for new projects is not particularly considered a good practice in the software industry

It's a game that started development well before the Ampere architecture even released for desktops, it's unfortunate but not hard to believe by any means.

 

[SlimySnake]

Not bad for an 8 year old game:

Alexandria and Cyprus buildings have some of the most exquisite looking PBR materials i saw last gen. The draw distance was remarkable too. I was incredibly disappointed by Valhalla which got rid of all these fancy buildings.

 

[Edellus]

It's a game that started development well before the Ampere architecture even released for desktops, it's unfortunate but not hard to believe by any means.

I read that PhysX has been supported by Nintendo consoles since the Wii, but do we know of any game that has used it?

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Alexandria and Cyprus buildings have some of the most exquisite looking PBR materials i saw last gen. The draw distance was remarkable too. I was incredibly disappointed by Valhalla which got rid of all these fancy buildings.

Yeah, it's pretty remarkable. Obviously that video was captured on a PC, but even on original hardware, in my case the One X, it still looks insane to this day. I can't believe it came out 8 years ago and runs on hardware I bought for 67 EUR, which is less than the price of a single game these days

 

[Buggy Loop]

Not voxels

Please winjer, out of all peoples in this thread I imagine you're the most likely to go into devs blogs and understand

Rigid body polygons with canned animations/triggers with a shower of polygon debris is like comparing an apple and an orange. Astrobot shower of gems is not voxels. You won't dig out into the level of a game with this tech. I can't believe I even have to detail this.

If you rigid body huge levels → havok particles, you certainly ain't running this on switch 2, nor even any current consoles I would wager and would likely kneecap most PCs. This is like UE5 niagara particles at a massive scale if you wanted to do it. But again, nothing to do with voxels.

 

[winjer]

Not voxels

Please winjer, out of all peoples in this thread I imagine you're the most likely to go into devs blogs and understand

Rigid body polygons with canned animations/triggers with a shower of polygon debris is like comparing an apple and an orange. Astrobot shower of gems is not voxels. You won't dig out into the level of a game with this tech. I can't believe I even have to detail this.

That was not my point.
Nintendo didn't have to use voxels, with all it's limitations.

 

[Buggy Loop]

That was not my point.
Nintendo didn't have to use voxels, with all it's limitations.

Your point miss the target. You're saying they could have used this Havok technology, a technology that can't even make DIGGING into terrain. Rigid body to particles ala Niagar has nothing to do with what you can do with voxels. Amazing choice of technology that doesn't fit the needs.

Also one that has never been seen on console platforms nor ever implemented into a game as of now, including UE5 niagara particle destructions, and likely for now reserved only for PC high end rigs if even that, because again, no game on horizon with the tech, UE5 is already struggling. Again, on switch 2?

I asked you smoothed voxels with physics, you replied with something that has nothing to do with voxels. Oooops. Seems I was right, no games does it. Physx and all, no support for ray marched/countouring voxels.

 

[anyasok]

Lol

Please go ask /r/VoxelGameDev

The technical discussions in this thread are laughable

Ask what. Why Nintendo couldnt implement physics in dkb? lol

Voxels are in general ugly beasts and inherently inferior to polygons

 

[SlimySnake]

'A little bit forward'... Sucker Punch's mentality when it comes to taking advantage of the power of the PS5.

But honestly, there's a whole host of things that we also got to improve upon. There's much, much further sight lines making the mountains feel so far away. The team did just such a great job making them feel epic and large and big. The terrain tessellation, we've done some work on there, higher-fidelity rendering for far terrain. In general it just looks much higher quality than some of our far away distance stuff in the past. There is a bunch of localized volumetric fog. We love the fog and we had more of just standard fog in the last game and it was beautiful and really well done. But now there's actually localized volumetric work. We did some work on low lying clouds and we improved skin and hair rendering.

At some point we're going to do a, "Here's all the cool base and Pro sort of features," and we'll outline it all. But one of the great parts of working on the second installment of something is that you get to take all those features and iterate on them in a way that is not just, "Ah! Photorealism button. Who cares about that?" It's about the artistic expression that we're going for. The art. There's a style to Ghost that is really important. And it's not just pure photoreal, though photorealism has an aspect to it. It's really taking that style, bringing it a little bit more forward and developing features that help achieve our visual and aesthetic and emotional and tonal goals. Like creating the aurora borealis. We didn't have that in the last game. Being able to create effects that go into the skybox. These were the things we didn't have. And they're not just buttons of photorealism and rendering. They're directed by the experience that we would like to have.

I have no idea what happened to Sony studios and why they went the Nintendo way, but to give up like this in a span of a generation is bizarre. Like someone flipped a switch and cut their nuts off. Now they just dont have that drive or ambition to push the visuals.

Honestly, the shit ive heard from sony studios this gen is infuriating and this is just adding more retarded takes on top of an already long list of moronic takes from this devs:
Guerrilla Games - PS4 did not hold us back.
Santa Monica - We kept PS4 and PS5 versions the same to ensure everyone gets the same experience.
Insomniac - RTGI costs too much which is why we didnt implement it..... while targeting native 4k wasting half of the GPU on rendering pixels instead of RTGI like every other dev that was able to add RTGI at 1440p 30 fps.
KojiPro - Not a big enough power leap going from PS5 to PS4 so we didnt even try to improve graphics fidelity.
Sucker Punch - Who cares about photorealism, improve graphics a little bit and call it day.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Ask what. Why Nintendo couldnt implement physics in dkb? lol

Voxels are in general ugly beasts and inherently inferior to polygons

So you have no clue about the tech, glad that's settled.

 

[RodriGames40]

Your point miss the target. You're saying they could have used this Havok technology, a technology that can't even make DIGGING into terrain. Rigid body to particles ala Niagar has nothing to do with what you can do with voxels. Amazing choice of technology that doesn't fit the needs.

Also one that has never been seen on console platforms nor ever implemented into a game as of now, including UE5 niagara particle destructions, and likely for now reserved only for PC high end rigs if even that, because again, no game on horizon with the tech, UE5 is already struggling. Again, on switch 2?

I asked you smoothed voxels with physics, you replied with something that has nothing to do with voxels. Oooops. Seems I was right, no games does it. Physx and all, no support for ray marched/countouring voxels.

The underlying technology is impressive, but don't you think this is all a big contradiction in itself when Nintendo confirmed the Voxels were meant to run on the freaking Switch 1? I don't know, we went through this song and dance already for crossgen PS4 titles and I find difficult to consider this in any other way as a result.

 

[anyasok]

So you have no clue about the tech, glad that's settled.

Lol you are hardly an expert

You dont have to go far. There is a reason why hardly anyone uses voxels except indie experimental sandbox games

Also, Red Faction games had physics too not just teardown so do some research

 

[winjer]

Your point miss the target. You're saying they could have used this Havok technology, a technology that can't even make DIGGING into terrain. Rigid body to particles ala Niagar has nothing to do with what you can do with voxels. Amazing choice of technology that doesn't fit the needs.

Also one that has never been seen on console platforms nor ever implemented into a game as of now, including UE5 niagara particle destructions, and likely for now reserved only for PC high end rigs if even that, because again, no game on horizon with the tech, UE5 is already struggling. Again, on switch 2?

I asked you smoothed voxels with physics, you replied with something that has nothing to do with voxels. Oooops. Seems I was right, no games does it. Physx and all, no support for ray marched/countouring voxels.

The digging into terrain is just a replacement of a cube, or voxel. There is nothing special about it.
One moment there is a voxel, the next the player does an action and the game removes the voxel.
The advantage is that it's fast, because a voxel is just a pixel with volume.
But yes, there are physics with voxels.

 

[Senua]

Ever since switch 2 launched buggy has lost the plot. Dude is eternally mad if people aren't as enthusiastic as him

 

[Buggy Loop]

The underlying technology is impressive, but don't you think this is all a big contradiction in itself when Nintendo confirmed the Voxels were meant to run on the freaking Switch 1?

Yea but at what FPS? I think they were struggling hard.

Nor do I think they revisited the entire engine when they went to Switch 2 for the data streaming or more exotic compute power available on Ampere and so on. They probably got a boost of FPS for as little effort as possible and continued making the game. They added fluffy surface stuffs with more GPU compute but the underlying code for voxel destruction is probably the bottleneck.

I'm not trying to sell this as a technical marvel by the way. I've said multiple times in this thread I would not bring forth DKB in a fidelity thread.

I want at least that when we discuss the tech, because peoples can't resist bringing it up, that there's an understanding on the limitations at the very least. The games doing this can be counted on one hand and one with amputated fingers, I'm not so sure that simply laughing at it is a good approach.

There's technical challenges that come with it and look, I'm open for anyone to dig up a game I missed or a paper on the subject, but I can't think nor find a demo of a smoothed voxel game with physic based tumbling like teardown. There's a reason why games like say, Enshrouded which has no limitation of hardware on PC, still have floating voxels. Voxels unlike polygons, have poor surface orientation, they don't naturally possess a normal vector which can point in any direction, so computing surface smoothing on a falling voxel that changes orientation on the fly probably means the smoothing algorithm would simply fuck up.

I don't know, we went through this song and dance already for crossgen PS4 titles and I find difficult to consider this in any other way as a result.

For sure I don't expect EPD Tokyo to have leveraged all the power available to them. And likely never will. I've said so multiple times in the thread that I do not expect Nintendo to squeeze T239 to the limits like Sony would with a PS4. Hell I don't even think Sony is squeezing PS5 like they used to, they're lifting the foot from the pedal. Are EPD Tokyo some kind of programming genius ala Carmack? No again, I don't think so.

Can someone one day come up with smoothed out voxels with teardown like physics? Most likely! One day maybe. But I haven't seen it so far, not even dev blog indie demos which typically would require a lot less resources than a full fledged game and that's where you see the most advanced stuffs of "what it could be"

 

[Buggy Loop]

The digging into terrain is just a replacement of a cube, or voxel. There is nothing special about it.
One moment there is a voxel, the next the player does an action and the game removes the voxel.
The advantage is that it's fast, because a voxel is just a pixel with volume.
But yes, there are physics with voxels.

Again, not smoothed



3rd time I repeat the problem I have not seen solutions for

You're explaining things I already know. It's not like I ignore teardown's existence.

 

[RodriGames40]

Yea but at what FPS? I think they were struggling hard.

Must have been playable ones if a Switch 1 release was on the table for four whole years, they only moved the project in 2021.

For sure I don't expect EPD Tokyo to have leveraged all the power available to them. And likely never will. I've said so multiple times in the thread that I do not expect Nintendo to squeeze T239 to the limits like Sony would with a PS4. Hell I don't even think Sony is squeezing PS5 like they used to, they're lifting the foot from the pedal. Are EPD Tokyo some kind of programming genius ala Carmack? No again, I don't think so.

This isn't a Sony situation however. Although it's obvious they haven't leveraged the PS5 fully yet, they are still using what the GPU and RDNA2 has to offer for the most part, as well as their uniquely fast I/O (just not as hard as they used to). By the look of things, Nintendo hasn't even reached the "built from the groundup" stage with their releases yet, they just touched up whatever they had in the Switch 1 pipeline to fit the next gen launch. In my eyes, that's a much worse place to be at the moment.

 

[SlimySnake]

Ever since switch 2 launched buggy has lost the plot. Dude is eternally mad if people aren't as enthusiastic as him

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a ChiefDada.

The thread has a long history of people jumping the shark:
- Rofif - Forspoken
- ChiefDada - Spiderman 2
- Lethal01 - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
- PolygonalSprite - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
- Rofif - Death Stranding 2
- Rofif - Ghost of Yotei
- BlownupRich - Mario Kart World
- Buggyloop - DonkeyKong Bananza

 

[Buggy Loop]

Ever since switch 2 launched buggy has lost the plot. Dude is eternally mad if people aren't as enthusiastic as him

Because I call out peoples who are wrong on the technology?

I know there's a handful of games that even use this tech so it's less easy to understand than >25 years of the same polygon refinement with layers and layers of coating, but it is what it is, there's limitations to voxels. Don't want to discuss it? I am not the one bringing DK into this thread, repeatedly.

But if you just want to point fingers at something by using an example that is equivalent to an orange compared to an apple, by all means, I'll leave you guys circle jerking with PS2 graphic claims and shower of laughing emojis. If that's the level of technical details you guys want in graphical fidelity thread, continue on that path.

You were fine with it when I called it peoples on path tracing ignorance. How odd.

 

[winjer]

Again, not smoothed



3rd time I repeat the problem I have not seen solutions for

You're explaining things I already know. It's not like I ignore teardown's existence.

Your problem is how to map the voxels to a 2d texture?
The moment the player interacts with the voxel that is mapped, just replace it with another voxel that has a physics volume or even a bunch or polygons.
Replacing models when they are destroyed is what the industry has been doing for decades now.

 

[Radical_3d]

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a ChiefDada.

The thread has a long history of people jumping the shark:
- Rofif - Forspoken
- ChiefDada - Spiderman 2
- Lethal01 - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
- PolygonalSprite - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
- Rofif - Death Stranding 2
- Rofif - Ghost of Yotei
- BlownupRich - Mario Kart World
- Buggyloop - DonkeyKong Bananza

I see a trend…

 

[Buggy Loop]

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a ChiefDada.

The thread has a long history of people jumping the shark:
- Rofif - Forspoken
- ChiefDada - Spiderman 2
- Lethal01 - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
- PolygonalSprite - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
- Rofif - Death Stranding 2
- Rofif - Ghost of Yotei
- BlownupRich - Mario Kart World
- Buggyloop - DonkeyKong Bananza

Oh, slimysnake all high and mighty above everyone. What a farce.

Again, I am NOT the one bringing DK in this thread, ever. Do you notice that?

You don't want to be called out on being wrong with tech? Leave it at superficial levels and say you're disappointed with graphics. Voila. I don't give a shit. I don't care you think textures are PS3 era. You wish it had teardown like physics. I'm pointing out I don't think it exists for smoothed voxels slimy. Sorry I guess?

Gymwolf had compared DK with Red Faction Guerilla in the past. The Red faction guerilla which no longer had terrain destruction. I mean are you guys just fine with this level of discussion? Just want to clown around without interruption?

 

[analog_future]

You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a ChiefDada.

The thread has a long history of people jumping the shark:
- Rofif - Forspoken
- ChiefDada - Spiderman 2
- Lethal01 - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
- PolygonalSprite - Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth
- Rofif - Death Stranding 2
- Rofif - Ghost of Yotei
- BlownupRich - Mario Kart World
- Buggyloop - DonkeyKong Bananza

 

[CowboyLou]

This thread is the best entertainment on the site.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Your problem is how to map the voxels to a 2d texture?
The moment the player interacts with the voxel that is mapped, just replace it with another voxel that has a physics volume or even a bunch or polygons.
Replacing models when they are destroyed is what the industry has been doing for decades now.

Ok so say, from DF's video where he dug underneath a massive part of the level, where we expect it to fall, have a massive part of the level suddenly turn from smoothed voxels, to just voxels, do physics to drop down the level, and... ? what does it look like now? You basically returned to teardown, it doesn't look like the same game. Turn to polygons? Can you dig into that fallen level now? No you turned it into polygons. Do you understand?

Enshrouded with all the power of PC and is much more technically advanced than this with ray tracing and so on has floating voxels.

 

[winjer]

Ok so say, from DF's video where he dug underneath a massive part of the level, where we expect it to fall, have a massive part of the level suddenly turn from smoothed voxels, to just voxels, do physics to drop down the level, and... ? what does it look like now? You basically returned to teardown, it doesn't look like the same game. Turn to polygons? Can you dig into that fallen level now? No you turned it into polygons. Do you understand?

Enshrouded with all the power of PC and is much more technically advanced than this with ray tracing and so on has floating voxels.

But all that the game is doing is replacing voxels with polygons.
When the player makes a hole in the ground, the game just removes that voxel, and covers the walls of the neighboring voxels with polygons.

 

[SlimySnake]

Oh, slimysnake all high and mighty above everyone. What a farce.

Again, I am NOT the one bringing DK in this thread, ever. Do you notice that?

You don't want to be called out on being wrong with tech? Leave it at superficial levels and say you're disappointed with graphics. Voila. I don't give a shit. I don't care you think textures are PS3 era. You wish it had teardown like physics. I'm pointing out I don't think it exists for smoothed voxels slimy. Sorry I guess?

Gymwolf had compared DK with Red Faction Guerilla in the past. The Red faction guerilla which no longer had terrain destruction. I mean are you guys just fine with this level of discussion? Just want to clown around without interruption?

Doesnt matter if you brought it up or not, the fact is that you've been defending it and excusing those shit graphics and lack of physics for the past couple of pages.

And then you go on insulting others claiming they dont understand the tech. As if you have a PHD on graphics programming yourself. As if we all need 10 years of graphics programming experience before we can discuss whether or not something looks like shit by current gen standards.

Who gives a shit what the limitations of voxels are. No one put a gun to their head and told them to use something that cant even support physics on a console 10x more powerful than the switch 1. I am not going to make excuses for devs making retarded decisions when spec'ing out a game. I am only interested in the final product. Couldnt care less if they use RTGI or Mesh shaders or sprites. I just want a next gen looking game after i paid $450 on a console and $70-80 on these so called next gen games from Sony and Nintendo.

The only reason why we go into detail about RTGI and mesh shaders is because we've seen how they can transform visuals. We dont do it to make excuses. Quite the opposite, we use that technical jargon to point out why other games look dated. You are doing it to defend these games. big difference.

 

[anyasok]

Ok so say, from DF's video where he dug underneath a massive part of the level, where we expect it to fall, have a massive part of the level suddenly turn from smoothed voxels, to just voxels, do physics to drop down the level, and... ? what does it look like now? You basically returned to teardown, it doesn't look like the same game. Turn to polygons? Can you dig into that fallen level now? No you turned it into polygons. Do you understand?

Enshrouded with all the power of PC and is much more technically advanced than this with ray tracing and so on has floating voxels.

Voxels dont float on the touryst, astroneer or voxile either

 

[Senua]

You were fine with it when I called it peoples on path tracing ignorance. How odd.

I don't remember but yea path tracing is awesome

 

[Gonzito]

Everytime I come to this thread

 

[analog_future]

the real best gfx of 2025

 

[GymWolf]

Oh, slimysnake all high and mighty above everyone. What a farce.

Again, I am NOT the one bringing DK in this thread, ever. Do you notice that?

You don't want to be called out on being wrong with tech? Leave it at superficial levels and say you're disappointed with graphics. Voila. I don't give a shit. I don't care you think textures are PS3 era. You wish it had teardown like physics. I'm pointing out I don't think it exists for smoothed voxels slimy. Sorry I guess?

Gymwolf had compared DK with Red Faction Guerilla in the past. The Red faction guerilla which no longer had terrain destruction. I mean are you guys just fine with this level of discussion? Just want to clown around without interruption?

I think i compared the old red factions and their total destruction and you said that they were limited and you were right, my comparison with guerrilla was tech vs tech and what was more unique\advanced, and at the end of the day, their destroy building tech is still more impressive than whatever bananza is doing, at least for me, at least there was actual physics in play instead of having floating voxels and the graphic for the time wasn't as shit as it is in bananza in 2025, and it was more unique than mindless destruction that has been in a lot of games already, even if they were more limited than bananza (but bananza is also very limited in other things as we discovered), you literally don't have another game with that type of destruction except maybe just cause 4 but not on that level.

From what i remember you also didn't liked the comparison with teardown and drg, 2 voxel games with even more destruction\physics, at least include everything if you have to call people clowns to make your point.
Or the comparison with noita, another game that absolutely smash bananza in term of physics and destruction, but apparently if it's not made in voxel so it's not a valid comparison apparently...

You think bananza is doing some incredibly impressive stuff, many of us are not as impressed, it's that simple.

The moment you have to explain to me with tecnical jargon why something is impressive instead of something just looking impressive, you know you failed.

 

[Buggy Loop]

But all that the game is doing is replacing voxels with polygons.
When the player makes a hole in the ground, the game just removes that voxel, and covers the walls of the neighboring voxels with polygons.

Again, surfacing voxels is an entirely different problem with a static optimized and stored octree than one that has physics and is tumbling / projected around ala Teardown.

Feel free to ask him, I know this is not an unfamiliar name to you



Until you find an example doing exactly what you feel should be possible, not words, a proof of concept.

Voxels dont float on the touryst, astroneer or voxile either

Touryst - What destruction? Again, very much not smoothed but I fail to remember a single case in that game where you would have destroyed the base of something and expect it to collapse.

Voxile I haven't played it, is it even out? But again, not smoothed, like teardown. Nothing in that trailer tells me that its teardown physics.

Astroneer

Its full of floating voxels floating base even in mid air and all items floating

Whole concept of this video is because of floating voxels




Most of the solutions outside teardown are more like DRG at best, detect no support, pop out of existence.



Should cutting the base of a tree in donkey kong means the whole thing explode? I guess . Doesn't it look weird? Falling over and rolling, that would be fun, but again, I have no examples. To go back to DF's video, when he dug under the level, are the expectations that a whole platformer level because John dug underneath it? What are the expectations here and how does that help the gameplay of a platformer without fucking things up majorly for the player. This ain't sandbox Minecraft/Astroneer with random generation, there's a concept of a level in DK.

 

[GymWolf]

Buggy Loop read my post again please, english is not my native language so i always edit and add and cancel stuff.

It's not gonna change your mind but i didn't wanted to be too much of a jackass

 

[anyasok]

Again, surfacing voxels is an entirely different problem with a static optimized and stored octree than one that has physics and is tumbling / projected around ala Teardown.

Feel free to ask him, I know this is not an unfamiliar name to you



Until you find an example doing exactly what you feel should be possible, not words, a proof of concept.



Touryst - What destruction? Again, very much not smoothed but I fail to remember a single case in that game where you would have destroyed the base of something and expect it to collapse.

Voxile I haven't played it, is it even out? But again, not smoothed, like teardown. Nothing in that trailer tells me that its teardown physics.

Astroneer

Its full of floating voxels floating base even in mid air and all items floating

Whole concept of this video is because of floating voxels




Most of the solutions outside teardown are more like DRG at best, detect no support, pop out of existence.



Should cutting the base of a tree in donkey kong means the whole thing explode? I guess . Doesn't it look weird? Falling over and rolling, that would be fun, but again, I have no examples. To go back to DF's video, when he dug under the level, are the expectations that a whole platformer level because John dug underneath it? What are the expectations here and how does that help the gameplay of a platformer without fucking things up majorly for the player. This ain't sandbox Minecraft/Astroneer with random generation, there's a concept of a level in DK.

The expectation is for a game to have physics and not be an endless procedural paintbrush generator. Voxels can and do support physics in the games I've mentioned. DKB feels very floaty and messy as a result of not having any physics applied to the surfaces you are clearing. Did you actually play the game that you feel there would be no tangible benefit to it?

 

[Buggy Loop]

I think i compared the red factions and their total destruction and you said that they were limited and you were right, my comparison with guerrilla was tech vs tech and what was more unique\advanced, and at the end of the day, their destroy building tech is still more impressive than whatever bananza is doing, at least for me, at least there was actual physics in play instead of having floating voxels and the graphic for the time wasn't as shit as it is in bananza in 2025, and it was more unique than mindless destruction that has been in a lot of games already, even if they were more limited than bananza (but bananza is also very limited in other things as we discovered), you literally don't have another game with that type of destruction except maybe just cause 4 but not on that level.

Ok?

You were more impressed with oranges than apples. Good for you gymwolf. But when peoples are discussing the tech of DK, they're talking about terrain destruction.

From what i remember you also didn't liked the comparison with teardown and drg, 2 voxel games with even more destruction\physics, at least include everything if you have to call people clowns to make your point.
Or the comparison with noita, another game that absolutely smash bananza in term of physics and destruction, but apparently if it's not made in voxel so it's not a valid comparison apparently...

Again this?

Opinion Analysis Game Dev  Post in thread 'your top 5 best physics??'

Jul 25, 2024

1) Teardown



2) Noita



3) Half Life Alyx



4) BeamNG



5) Outer wilds

Won't put a video on that since it's quite an experience to figure it out and discover.

• Buggy Loop

• 
• 

No, DK won't enter the list if you ask me again today. That's not the point of any of this. Since the beginning I am discussing tech limitations with voxel technologies.

I have no examples of a Teardown game with smoothed voxels, it just does not seem feasible at the moment.

Saying DK is not impressive because of X or Y game without understanding the why is frustrating. I know its much easier to go for laughing emojis

Noita : I can't wait to complain about GTA 6 for not having per pixel physics.. I can't believe this enters the discussion again. Sandfall physic pixels in 2D, somehow never made it 3D I wonder why, fucking Nintendo for not matching it. What even is this doing in the discussion.

You think bananza is doing some incredibly impressive stuff, many of us are not as impressed, it's that simple.

I am discussing tech limitations of not so known technology after peoples brought up comparisons that make no sense. But I know that discussions of tech over laughing emojis and claims like PS2 looking is really a downer around here. You ever wonder why I never bring up DK in this thread? Because I never did.

The moment you have to explain to me with tecnical jargon why something is impressive instead of something just looking impressive, you know you failed.

When did I try to explain that what it is doing is impressive? I am explaining that I don't think what peoples ask for even exists tech wise. Fine combed papers, coding videos, voxelgamedev subreddit, etc. Clearly more effort than just unga bunga PS2 graphics HUR HUR HUR Nintendo fucking sucks laughing emojis

Technical jargon is CLEARLY not a match with the peoples hanging around a graphical fidelity thread, this I am noticing. What a disappointment.

 

[GymWolf]

Ok?

You were more impressed with oranges than apples. Good for you gymwolf. But when peoples are discussing the tech of DK, they're talking about terrain destruction.



Again this?

Opinion Analysis Game Dev  Post in thread 'your top 5 best physics??'

Jul 25, 2024

1) Teardown



2) Noita



3) Half Life Alyx



4) BeamNG



5) Outer wilds

Won't put a video on that since it's quite an experience to figure it out and discover.

• Buggy Loop

• 
• 

No, DK won't enter the list if you ask me again today. That's not the point of any of this. Since the beginning I am discussing tech limitations with voxel technologies.

I have no examples of a Teardown game with smoothed voxels, it just does not seem feasible at the moment.

Saying DK is not impressive because of X or Y game without understanding the why is frustrating. I know its much easier to go for laughing emojis

Noita : I can't wait to complain about GTA 6 for not having per pixel physics.. I can't believe this enters the discussion again. Sandfall physic pixels in 2D, somehow never made it 3D I wonder why, fucking Nintendo for not matching it. What even is this doing in the discussion.

I am discussing tech limitations of not so known technology after peoples brought up comparisons that make no sense. But I know that discussions of tech over laughing emojis and claims like PS2 looking is really a downer around here. You ever wonder why I never bring up DK in this thread? Because I never did.



When did I try to explain that what it is doing is impressive? I am explaining that I don't think what peoples ask for even exists tech wise. Fine combed papers, coding videos, voxelgamedev subreddit, etc. Clearly more effort than just unga bunga PS2 graphics HUR HUR HUR Nintendo fucking sucks laughing emojis

Technical jargon is CLEARLY not a match with the peoples hanging around a graphical fidelity thread, this I am noticing. What a disappointment.

Small note, I never went to the extreme of calling bananza a ps2 game, i even said that it looks better than teardown and drg

 

[Wolzard]

Nvidia is phasing out 32 bit CUDA operations, which includes Physx, starting with the 50x series. Perhaps it's the right choice to not use it if you'd be expecting future compatibility issues. I'm not sure if there are recent games that have implemented PhysX.

There are 64-bit versions. Many games from 2013-14 already used this version, such as The Witcher 3, Batman Arkham Knight, Project CARS, etc.

Nvidia has discontinued 32-bit versions because they are old and will suffer from the 2038 problem.

64-bit software won't suffer from this kind of problem for millennia.

 

[Buggy Loop]

The expectation is for a game to have physics and not be an endless procedural paintbrush generator. Voxels can and do support physics in the games I've mentioned.

I guess we're not talking about the same thing because the way those games behave is not what I am trying to convey here at all. Your examples are not doing teardown. Astroneer has floating voxels. Tourysts has... nothing I can think of? Its very much traditional game made in the style of a voxel one, and not smoothed. The other game doesn't seem to be out and as I detailed multiple times, is one example of not being smoothed out. So why not like teardown? It could. We have an actual example at least.

DKB feels very floaty and messy as a result of not having any physics applied to the surfaces you are clearing. Did you actually play the game that you feel there would be no tangible benefit to it?

I am playing the game actually. Could it benefit from it? Partially agree. Should the game have a detection system for like very small floating voxels and pop them out of existence ala DRG? Sure! For visual consistency. But ala DF where John expects a whole level to collapse because he dug under? None of the planet/asteroid diggers have this kind of mechanic either btw. Just destroying a building in teardown is PS5 going to 15 FPS. And again, how do you design a platformer with this kind of sandbox? And my only reason of entering this whole thread is to explain that I don't think the tech is there for that kind of voxel presentation.

DKB is pretty much inline with all voxels games I played on PC for years, except Teardown but again, I won't explain again that it is one unique game doing this, looks like raw voxels and I'm not sure a developer of a platformer is thinking of sandbox destruction like a sandbox destruction game is focused on it.

I played Enshrouded coop a TON in past months on PC. Never crossed my mind that floating voxel is a problem, that it needs to be more like teardown as I dig into the terrain, nor is DKB

But either way, that's enough of me discussing voxels in this thread. At this point it might start to be easier to code it in godot myself for proof of concept than going through more pages for a game that I never introduced into the "fidelity" thread. Have fun!

 

[GymWolf]

What do we think about the new dying light?

with a gun pointed to my head i guess the zombie\monster rendering is...pretty decent? i think they are more detailed than the monsters in callisto and ds remake.

 

[RodriGames40]

People, in the end of the day, I want to remind y' all just in case... If many of you believe BuggyLoop may be wrong for one reason or another, that's a good thing in itself. There's a direct coming soon, Nintendo themselves could prove him wrong for all we know and show up with something truly next gen for this year or the next. It's in our best interest to see this happen.

 

[GymWolf]

People, in the end of the day, I want to remind y' all just in case... If many of you believe BuggyLoop may be wrong for one reason or another, that's a good thing in itself. There's a direct coming soon, Nintendo themselves could prove him wrong for all we know and show up with something truly next gen for this year or the next. It's in our best interest to see this happen.

If nintendo comes up with something that look better than yotei (pretty easy task) i'm gonna laugh for 3 days straight.

I actually hope it happen just for the absolute chaos here on gaf

 

[MidGenRefresh]

What do we think about the new dying light?

with a gun pointed to my head i guess the zombie\monster rendering is...pretty decent? i think they are more detailed than the monsters in callisto and ds remake.

Looks pretty much like the previous one, I don't even know what it was called. RTGI saved that game, without it, it was rather unimpressive.

 

[RodriGames40]

If nintendo comes up with something that look better than yotei (pretty easy task) i'm gonna laugh for 3 days straight.

I actually hope it happen just for the absolute chaos here on gaf

From what I have seen, there are geometry meshes in Yotei somehow comparable to those of Bananza, a Switch 1 game touched up. Why do I see it happen, lmfao.

 

[GymWolf]

Looks pretty much like the previous one, I don't even know what it was called. RTGI saved that game, without it, it was rather unimpressive.

I clearly remember people posting pics of dl2 that looked photoreslistic, the game never looked like that maxed out on my pc...

 

[GymWolf]

From what I have seen, there are geometry meshes in Yotei somehow comparable to those of Bananza, a Switch 1 game touched up. Why do I see it happen, lmfao.

Yeah but overall i think we can agree that yotei still look at least a generation better than bananza.

if bananza is like 80% ps3 and 20% ps4, yotei is like 90% ps4, 10% ps5

 

[Buggy Loop]

People, in the end of the day, I want to remind y' all just in case... If many of you believe BuggyLoop may be wrong for one reason or another, that's a good thing in itself. There's a direct coming soon, Nintendo themselves could prove him wrong for all we know and show up with something truly next gen for this year or the next. It's in our best interest to see this happen.

No chance

I can go from Cyberpunk 2077 path tracing all maxed out on PC all the way down to fucking garbage visuals like Cruelty Squad if the game is fun, so I'm not picky.

But one thing is certain, for Nintendo, even with a 5090 PC rig somehow appearing out of thin air that they would make a game for, would not suddenly open up a >$200M budget to go for high fidelity.

Whole gen of Switch 2 I will likely never open a post in this thread to present a game of theirs. Some of you will either way in the end.

I have a PC for high fidelity and this thread.

If nintendo comes up with something that look better than yotei (pretty easy task) i'm gonna laugh for 3 days straight.

I actually hope it happen just for the absolute chaos here on gaf

LOL

You guys are up to Ghost of Yotei?

I'm not even at Ghost of Tsushima expectations

 

[Edellus]

There are 64-bit versions. Many games from 2013-14 already used this version, such as The Witcher 3, Batman Arkham Knight, Project CARS, etc.

Nvidia has discontinued 32-bit versions because they are old and will suffer from the 2038 problem.

64-bit software won't suffer from this kind of problem for millennia.

Ah, you're right. I didn't think of searching if there was a 64bit version.

Thanks for the info