DaciaJC
Gold Member
This is nothing more than dressed-up victim blaming.
Game Developers celebrating assassination of Charlie Kirk (Sucker Punch, Bungie, The Coalition etc) [Update] Sucker Punch Dev Fired
- Thread starter StreetsofBeige
- Start date
This is nothing more than dressed-up victim blaming.
It certainly isn't an 'overwhelmingly left wing problem', and leftists aren't the folks I've been seeing calling for a civil war and 'revenge' since yesterday. It wasn't also leftists who killed those Dem politicians a few months back.
To be honest, it's borderline despicable how folks are using this heinous murder to seek to score political points.
Case in point.
Finger pointing does no good, and absolving one side of violent rhetoric while putting the blame on the other side is a recipe for further anarchy.
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Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Major cringe. For sure. Asterisk* it's a personal account, and clearly says views are his own. He's not speaking on behalf of Playstation or SP, but no doubt he's about to be in some HR trouble on the employer end.
The boycott thing of a videogame is a bit over-dramatic/ eye-roll worthy, if I'm being honest. We may not like it, but the fact is he was a controversial figure and not everyone will treat the situation delicately or with tact. Particularly in the US, we live in a very dangerous time and bad things happen constantly here that are both shocking and abhorrent. Wish it weren't so, but it's getting worse, not better.
The boycott thing of a videogame is a bit over-dramatic/ eye-roll worthy, if I'm being honest. We may not like it, but the fact is he was a controversial figure and not everyone will treat the situation delicately or with tact. Particularly in the US, we live in a very dangerous time and bad things happen constantly here that are both shocking and abhorrent. Wish it weren't so, but it's getting worse, not better.
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Ellis
Member
So, if someone says something we dislike, we should just shoot them, right ?
Come on dude.
Holammer
Member
If they don't react, it's seen as tacit approval. Look at the replies to the most recent Yotei tweet. This is going to be plastered on every communication Sony does about the game now (YT, PS Blog etc), unless it's dealt with, it risks becoming a moral and ideological battlefield. Hell, I'd order a review of the story and even delay for changes if there are politically problematic story beats & themes. Maybe even delay it so this can blow over.
Last thing Sony wants is for Trump to write a Truth Social post about them.
Senua
Member
How is that even a remotely similar scenario? the dude was assassinated in public bro, your morals are all over the shop
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Agreed fully. He's allowed to say what he wants, his bio clearly says views are his own, but he knows what he says will inevitably reflect badly on his studio/ PS, and he chose to do it anyway, with no regard to how it might affect others. If there's fallout from it that negatively impacts him or his studio, that's on him. I don't think it's on PS or the studio to issue a statement. Let him sink or swim on his own, and eventually it'll sort itself out. He's a big boy, presumably.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Absolutely agreed. Just needs to be pointed out that it's a personal account that clearly states views are his own. His personal X account doesn't exist (at least in his mind) to help him sell or market his studio's games.
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Shadowstar39
Member
There should be mandates by said business that you sign when you take the job that if you promote the company in any way that you can be libel for what you say on social media.
This is why I don't put my companies name on Facebook and stay anonymous in any place where politics or divisive topics are mentioned. That and I learned my lesson a few years ago that family, friends and politics don't go together. I
I would understand a company firing someone for making crazy tweets if they are higher up in the company, even without the said connection being publicly viewable.
With all this being said, if you were liking the game or what you saw, don't let one kook steer you away. One artists is not a hivemind in a collection of 100s. Also separate the art from the artist, or you are no better than the people you criticize. 100s of people work on these projects who don't have anything to do with politics. If sucker punch goes all out stating they support the shooter, or downplays it, then that would be another thing entirely.
Gamer_By_Proxy
About to beat off
They really just need to start firing these people and apologize. Hurts the brand and screws over everyone that worked on the games.
Everyone has different divisive views, but in a professional setting you (not you, im just spittin) keep that shit to yourself and do your job. That has been the status quo for a long time. If you want to work in an echo chamber bubble because you can't handle differing opinions, thats your problem, not your coworkers who are just there to work.
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Dusktildawn48
Member
These are the same types of people that said "learn to code" when 100s of thousands of people got laid off during covid.
John Bilbo
Member
And then you explain why you consider that philosophical. What does the word philosophical mean to you in this context?
Radical_3d
Member
I think that having left wing ideas and opinions, even far leftist ones, communicate them, share them and celebrate them all of it publicly is very different than to rejoice and mock an assassination. You should be able to speak your conservative or progressive ideas without fear of being fired. And you should be fired if you advocate or celebrate murder with your company in your bio. Those are completely different things. But oh well, USA GAF woke up, so I guess all middle ground is harder now.
Life Diff
Member
Plus tarnishing a whole studio with the same brush is some ridiculous shit.
hououinkyouma00
Member
In the philosophical sense, shut the fuck up and stop victim blaming.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I don't agree at all, in fact they should completely stay out of it as much as possible. If something is egregious enough where he's violated some policy of SP or PS, they can sort that out themselves internally. We don't need to be involved, or have front-page access to a glimpse behind the curtain of a potential HR issue between an employee and his company.
The fact of the matter is, you either want to play the videogame or you don't. It really isn't relevant to us what happens to an individual at a video game studio. You are free to like what he said or dislike it, but at the end of the day it's not up to us and it's frankly none of our business what/ if anything happens to him.
Also this.
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near
Gold Member
Yes, actions have consequences but not every consequence is just or proportional. Being assassinated for speech/public open debates is not a natural consequence, it's an act of violence. Getting fired for celebrating someone's death is not the same as being assassinated for expressing views, that is a false equivalence.
Edellus
Member
I'm all for free speech, but I'm not an absolutist. There are definitely lines that should not be crossed . And, for me, a clear line is when violence is directly encouraged or celebrated.
Regardless of our distaste, and even hate for some, of some people due to their opinions and the things they've said, if violence is given a pass or considered "understandable", then escalation is risked. Many people seem to forget that if they can react that way to violence against people they're opposed to, the people they're opposed to can behave in kind.
I'm not from the USA, fortunately, but I were living there, I would certainly avoid to give the idea that violence can be understandable and excusable if it's against the people one dislikes. I would be particularly careful not to do that if the side I'm opposed to, and therefore them to me, are the ones that carry the most guns.
The people that are encouraging this lead me to believe they're not thinking at all what they're actually saying and the potential risks of doing so, or they just want to see the world burn. And those that say "violence is how change actually happens throughout history"; I repeat, those that you oppose can think the same thing. And if they're the ones who have the guns I would have my doubts that this change would be on my favour. So be careful what you ask for. Unless you actually want to see the world burn.
Regardless of our distaste, and even hate for some, of some people due to their opinions and the things they've said, if violence is given a pass or considered "understandable", then escalation is risked. Many people seem to forget that if they can react that way to violence against people they're opposed to, the people they're opposed to can behave in kind.
I'm not from the USA, fortunately, but I were living there, I would certainly avoid to give the idea that violence can be understandable and excusable if it's against the people one dislikes. I would be particularly careful not to do that if the side I'm opposed to, and therefore them to me, are the ones that carry the most guns.
The people that are encouraging this lead me to believe they're not thinking at all what they're actually saying and the potential risks of doing so, or they just want to see the world burn. And those that say "violence is how change actually happens throughout history"; I repeat, those that you oppose can think the same thing. And if they're the ones who have the guns I would have my doubts that this change would be on my favour. So be careful what you ask for. Unless you actually want to see the world burn.
If the company doesn't make a statement and hold the employees accountable for their divisive words, then its safe to say the entire company is complicit and can be painted with the same brush.
Angry_Megalodon
Gold Member
Sony needs to fire ALL these people for yesterday.
IMO it's important to distinguish two hypothetical cases, which may look similar but absolutely are not:
- First hypothetical case, imagine Charlie Kirk slipped over and hit his head against the floor. Instant death. Though disgusting, I'd "understand" many people didn't have sympathy for him or even made jokes. Thats human condition. Everyday hundreds of thousands die and don't have enough tears for them all.
- Second case: Charlie Kirk being the victim of a political assassination. For him, the outcome would be the same, but for everyone else it's a completely different scenario. Anyone cheering or justifying this is an active supporter of terrorism. By itself, that's a borderline criminal behaviour. No company should allow any of this, be it an official or a personal account. If Sony doesn't act, they are in agreement with it.
I don't care about someone I didn't even know till yesterday, but I do care that in MY society people wish for the assassination of those with opposing views. And companies need to care or else face the consequences. Remember: these devs will ask for your compassion when layoffs happen. These SAME devs.
IMO it's important to distinguish two hypothetical cases, which may look similar but absolutely are not:
- First hypothetical case, imagine Charlie Kirk slipped over and hit his head against the floor. Instant death. Though disgusting, I'd "understand" many people didn't have sympathy for him or even made jokes. Thats human condition. Everyday hundreds of thousands die and don't have enough tears for them all.
- Second case: Charlie Kirk being the victim of a political assassination. For him, the outcome would be the same, but for everyone else it's a completely different scenario. Anyone cheering or justifying this is an active supporter of terrorism. By itself, that's a borderline criminal behaviour. No company should allow any of this, be it an official or a personal account. If Sony doesn't act, they are in agreement with it.
I don't care about someone I didn't even know till yesterday, but I do care that in MY society people wish for the assassination of those with opposing views. And companies need to care or else face the consequences. Remember: these devs will ask for your compassion when layoffs happen. These SAME devs.
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Ellis
Member
I drink in my local pub with a guy that worked for Psygnosis back in the day. He's said many times, these kids can't code for shit. He's been all over Europe for the last two decades doing temp work on games that people don't know how to finish.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
I wouldn't even say it's dressed-up.
Senua
Member
Sure Jan. One forum is celebrating a murder, the other is pissed at people celebrating and mocking said murder. You're deluded
MiguelItUp
Member
It's your money and your opinions, you do however you see fit.
But IMO one dev, hell even a small few, shouldn't affect or represent a gigantic team of them. But again, you do you. From what I've gathered, I'm sure a lot of people that "aren't buying it" weren't buying it in the first place because of other reasons.
Gonzito
Gold Member
So a very important person in the team says publicly its okay to murder and the company should stay quiet?
Yeah right
John Bilbo
Member
But is that philosophical?
midnightAI
Member
From an entirely selfish personal point of view.... they better fucking not
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
The fact of the matter is, you don't have enough information to state this. It's also quite hyperbolic. We don't know what/ if any interal policies SP or PS have in regards to a situation like this, but his account clearly states it's personal and does not represent his studio or his employer. Important to keep that in mind. He didn't post it to SP's X page. That would obviously be a much more clear cut situation.
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Most of you people don't know who the fuck that man was but now what to be the Captain of the Morality ship. Hilarious.
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Gonzito
Gold Member
Mr Moose
Member
ThatOneGrunt
Member
Gaf is full of hypocrites.
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
gaf right now: im not buying their games anymore!!!!
gaf day one when reviews are above 85: im all in baby!!!!
Man we need to stop allowing these dumb ass threads with fake warriors.
gaf day one when reviews are above 85: im all in baby!!!!
Man we need to stop allowing these dumb ass threads with fake warriors.
Toots
Member
This one is too hard not to catch...
Spoken like a dude who never opened a book of philosophy in his life.
Maybe you meant poetic justice, or maybe everything you don't understand is philosophy for you, i don't know, but you really don't know what you are talking about.
peish
Member
Jim ryan tried but some staffs leaked to jason schrieder to create a storm in a tea cup
PlayStation Boss Jim Ryan Asks Employees To 'Respect Differences of Opinion' Amid Abortion Controversy
Ryan's message reportedly sparks backlash within Sony.
Radical_3d
Member
I deeply envy you.
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
What on earth does this mean?
Senua
Member
Generalise all ya want, you just look like a retard
Retard. Har har har. This is the shit I'm talking about. Just like them over there ready to spout insults when you don't align with their thinking.
Angry_Megalodon
Gold Member
Most of the people who are cheering don't know the man either. They are cheering because "one enemy" has been killed.
If you can't see what's wrong with this, you are too deep in the rabbit hole.
The fact of the matter is mocking and cheering on a political assassination crosses a line despite no policy existing. You can say your views are not that of your companies all you want, but if your companies product relies on sales in a country you are actively mocking half the population of, then your personal views impact the company. This is why professionals working in professional fields don't talk about politics online. A company CAN fire you for voicing your political views publicly online. I think its very clear that these people aren't professionals
This stuff happens all the time in regards to posting divisive stuff online. Don't do it. You don't get do-overs and you don't get to apologize (the left made those rules) and now they should suffer the consequences.
Ellis
Member
Lovely bloke too. I'm a painter & decorator, so not normally someone I'd expect to be friends with
Senua
Member
You're offering nothing of substance with your posts, just trying to aggravate and generalise the entire forum on which you seem to dislike