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[Radical_3d]

It certainly seems that way. A few folks are twisting themselves to dispel any notion that Sony will aim for mass market pricing, even though rumours suggest they are going for a design that is cheaper to manufacture and ship. Any mention of Magnus pricing is to push it down to perceived PS6 levels, completely ignoring the fact it's not likely to be subsidised and is aiming for high end specs. HeisenbergFX4 has been saying for a looooong time that the Xbox console is north of 1K, and that is conveniently ignored. Then there's the contingent that believe Microsoft is going to offer a spec that would cost 50% more if you buy a prebuilt with similar performance. Again completely ignoring the fact Microsoft is aiming to make a profit on the hardware, and also not piss off their OEM partners.

They are ignoring a lot of more factors than just our insider:
- Anemic bandwidth.
- Anemic power consumption.
- Standard techs as standards can be, presented by Cerny himself.
- No jump to a new HDD technology.
- Smallest jump in memory pool ever.
- Just enough CPU cores to run Game Boy games.
- Sony's business model completely dependant on this selling buckets.

Their conclusion: "THIS THING SURELY CAN'T BE SOUTH OF $900!!"

 

[Felessan]

The gap between 600 and 1200 is huge. If 1200 is indeed true there is nothing stopping Sony to bump up some of the specs (and the price). Xbox isn't relevent anymore as a console so there is no competition for PlayStation. I will put my money on 699 console.

Yeah, as if Sony could put 1000$ price tag and sell 100m consoles
"Sony too" motion is so desperate

 

[Doctor Hades]

Even with the extra power this "Xbox" won't reach 1m sales at that price.

There is absolutely no way that Microsoft would release a next-gen Xbox console at $1,200. That would just be commercial suicide... unless the next Xbox is a PC hybrid aimed at two markets and Microsoft are more interested in the PC crowd?

Even if that was the case and they want to chase the PC crowd, like Nintendo did with the casuals for the Wii, they would still be alienating a large section of their core Xbox userbase who only want a cheap(ish) console to play their console games on, not an expensive does-everything-including-games PC hybrid. Yes, the ROG Xbox handheld costs $600 and $1,000 but that is an entirely different market and in my opinion the device is absolutely NOT an Xbox anyway. It's a PC handheld that runs the Xbox app and has access to Xbox PC games, just like the standard PC does.

Console manufacturers have to subsidise the hardware in order to build up a large enough userbase to profit from game sales or in Microsoft's case, GamePass subscriptions and game sales. I do expect that the next gen consoles will be more expensive at around $600-$700 / £500-£600 though just based on the way that the current gen pricing has gone, which has not dropped but actually increased.

Unfortunately for Microsoft, the loyalty that they built up with the Xbox and Xbox 360 has diminished to the extent that hardware sales have stalled (not helped by price increases) which in turn has caused GamePass subscriptions numbers to also stall, which is why Microsoft have increased subscription prices. A more expensive next-gen Xbox will not save them, particularly as PC and PlayStation gamers will be able to play Xbox games on their platforms. For me there is no reason for me to buy the next Xbox no matter how featured packed it might be. I am no longer interested in the Xbox as a console.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

There is absolutely no way that Microsoft would release a next-gen Xbox console at $1,200. That would just be commercial suicide

 

[Hudo]

If true then both are far too overpriced.

 

[Felessan]

There is absolutely no way that Microsoft would release a next-gen Xbox console at $1,200. That would just be commercial suicide... unless the next Xbox is a PC hybrid aimed at two markets and Microsoft are more interested in the PC crowd?

They will sell essentially Surface Xbox and not console xbox

Even if that was the case and they want to chase the PC crowd, like Nintendo did with the casuals for the Wii, they would still be alienating a large section of their core Xbox userbase who only want a cheap(ish) console to play their console games on, not an expensive does-everything-including-games PC hybrid. Yes, the ROG Xbox handheld costs $600 and $1,000 but that is an entirely different market and in my opinion the device is absolutely NOT an Xbox anyway. It's a PC handheld that runs the Xbox app and has access to Xbox PC games, just like the standard PC does.

MS wants to differentiate Xbox from playstation to not directly compete. And for this they go for higher end PC-like experience with console comfort.

Console manufacturers have to subsidise the hardware in order to build up a large enough userbase to profit from game sales or in Microsoft's case, GamePass subscriptions and game sales. I do expect that the next gen consoles will be more expensive at around $600-$700 / £500-£600 though just based on the way that the current gen pricing has gone, which has not dropped but actually increased.

Nintendo doesn't subsidize, you know.
And for xbox - its fanbase already down to 30m with heavy subsidizing. And even if MS keep going (and leaks telling us they will not and will change approach) it'll just delay inevitable. They need to change something and they decided to go hybrid PC-console route

Unfortunately for Microsoft, the loyalty that they built up with the Xbox and Xbox 360 has diminished to the extent that hardware sales have stalled (not helped by price increases) which in turn has caused GamePass subscriptions numbers to also stall, which is why Microsoft have increased subscription prices. A more expensive next-gen Xbox will not save them, particularly as PC and PlayStation gamers will be able to play Xbox games on their platforms. For me there is no reason for me to buy the next Xbox no matter how featured packed it might be. I am no longer interested in the Xbox as a console.

If they do not try - they will become obsolete in gen or two. Going all-in will probably not save them, but it still better than stick to clearly losing method.
Pretty much the same situation Nintendo was where it was losing ground in home consoles and had to change things drastically to stay relevant

 

[Cyborg]

Yeah, as if Sony could put 1000$ price tag and sell 100m consoles
"Sony too" motion is so desperate

I said 700 not 1000... when there is no competition you can extend the boundries.

 

[Ashamam]

They are ignoring a lot of more factors than just our insider:
- Anemic bandwidth.
- Anemic power consumption.
- Standard techs as standards can be, presented by Cerny himself.
- No jump to a new HDD technology.
- Smallest jump in memory pool ever.
- Just enough CPU cores to run Game Boy games.
- Sony's business model completely dependant on this selling buckets.

Their conclusion: "THIS THING SURELY CAN'T BE SOUTH OF $900!!"

Lol I take it you aren't a fan.

Can't say I disagree with the general idea though. I've said earlier that conflating a base model with a Pro model is just wrong out of the gate.

I will say that I think provided you can get past the compromises (that consoles always have) then the PS6 is likely to represent fantastic value in the market at release time. Probably handle those Game Boy games with room to spare even. Done right the Xbox on the other hand shouldn't have any significant compromises other than price (well and maybe no physical media?). Unfortunately I don't have confidence in MS doing it right so I'll be focusing on what they get wrong to work out if its worth it.

 

[RoboFu]

You couldn't put " guesses " in the title?

 

[Felessan]

I said 700 not 1000... when there is no competition you can extend the boundries.

And I said 1000
If there is no boundaries and no impact - why 700? 1000 still a big competitive advantage over 1200, and 1000 for sure more profits than 700

This is a lack of structural thinking - you inherently understand that 1000 will not work as it's too much but for some reason thinks that 700 will not have any impact - of course it will (it is studied in economics), just on the lesser scale that at 1000

 

[Mownoc]

I think $599 for a device with 50-54 compute units and ~30GB of ram in 2027 would be a very good price and hard to hit. Personally I expect it to be $699.

And yes the Magnus powered xbox is going to be expensive as hell, $999 is the minimum, more is definitely on the table.

 

[jm89]

They are already charging $800 for a console.

Yeah $1000+ for a "very premium" device as sara puts it is not farfetched.

They'll sell it to there console faithfull and some of the refugees who fled to pc but still can't let go.

 

[Joel Was Right]

The issue is not whether or not it is $500 or $1000. The issue is: what does it do better than the PlayStation 5? Tell me what it offers that differentiates it.

 

[winjer]

The issue is not whether or not it is $500 or $1000. The issue is: what does it do better than the PlayStation 5? Tell me what it offers that differentiates it.

AI cores, radiance cache, ML data compression, advanced RT and BVH traversal cores, shader execution reordering, HitObject and Opacity Micromaps, etc...

 

[pacman4000]

There is literally zero chance the next Xbox will cost $1200.

The brand already failed with the Xbox One and Series X, and this will take it lower.

Funny that people still thinks that the competition is consoles when the competition is pre-built PCs.

 

[Radical_3d]

The issue is not whether or not it is $500 or $1000. The issue is: what does it do better than the PlayStation 5? Tell me what it offers that differentiates it.

I bought the Pro because I can't stand FSR3 or less. If you're ok with that the base PS5 is a console for the ages.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Im just looking forward to seeing new hardware from everyone. We dont have to buy it, but new tech is always fun and exciting.

 

[Cyborg]

And I said 1000
If there is no boundaries and no impact - why 700? 1000 still a big competitive advantage over 1200, and 1000 for sure more profits than 700

This is a lack of structural thinking - you inherently understand that 1000 will not work as it's too much but for some reason thinks that 700 will not have any impact - of course it will (it is studied in economics), just on the lesser scale that at 1000

Agree to disagree. Lets mark this and see the end result in 2026/2027?

 

[Dr.D00p]

$1200 for a APU powered Console/PC hybrid is a bold choice, to be sure.

As impressive as the Magnus APU might look today, in 2027 it's going to be competing against PC gamers buliding PCs with Nvidia 60xx and AMD RDNA 5 discrete GPUs which will be far more powerful.

I really cant see the Magnus delivering better frame rates than a RTX 6060 class card and certainly not a 6070.

 

[Radical_3d]

$1200 for a APU powered Console/PC hybrid is a bold choice, to be sure.

As impressive as the Magnus APU might look today, in 2027 it's going to be competing against PC gamers buliding PCs with Nvidia 60xx and AMD RDNA 5 discrete GPUs which will be far more powerful.

I really cant see the Magnus delivering better frame rates than a RTX 6060 class card and certainly not a 6070.

Maybe. But how much is going to cost a not-launch not-founders-edition 6070 in 2027? And the whole system? With AI you may be paying very premium for little advantage in IQ. Magnus is certainly a very interesting product to folks like me that need to can the whole thing in the upgrade.

 

[DenchDeckard]

$1200 for a APU powered Console/PC hybrid is a bold choice, to be sure.

As impressive as the Magnus APU might look today, in 2027 it's going to be competing against PC gamers buliding PCs with Nvidia 60xx and AMD RDNA 5 discrete GPUs which will be far more powerful.

I really cant see the Magnus delivering better frame rates than a RTX 6060 class card and certainly not a 6070.

Rumours are its in line with a RTX 5080 so it will smoke a 6060 if that is the case. Its probably closer to a 6070 to 6070 Ti in Raster. Also, this isnt a GPU that is launching now, its being worked on now. Just like Nvidias silicone will be. Just because we have leaks of the APU now, doesnt mean it will be drastically out of date when it launches.

 

[Gaiff]

The same was true when PS3 launched at 600$ (making the delta even larger) - that argument doesn't work for console sales.

Maybe if you bought a blu-ray player for your PC. If I'm not mistaken, it was one of the biggest reasons the PS3 was so expensive. Otherwise, a PC centered around an 8800 GTX at the time was a lot faster than whatever the consoles could muster and would cost you around ~$1500.

 

[BlackTron]

Why do people here expect the next Xbox/PS to cost 1000-1200 ONLY?

The ROG ally shows the new pricing system and that is selling a 'normal/pro' version at a 1000 price and a 'series s' version at 600 to get the masses. Again, just like the ROG.

And I expect a series s version from both.

People expect an expensive Xbox PC because it appears MS doesn't want to subsidize consoles anymore.

People expect an expensive PS because they can't handle the idea that they will substantially undercut Xbox by like 600 dollars.

Xbox isn't shooting to sell that much hardware because they are a third party publisher, so don't count on the cheaper tier there.

 

[Gaiff]

$1200 for a APU powered Console/PC hybrid is a bold choice, to be sure.

As impressive as the Magnus APU might look today, in 2027 it's going to be competing against PC gamers buliding PCs with Nvidia 60xx and AMD RDNA 5 discrete GPUs which will be far more powerful.

I really cant see the Magnus delivering better frame rates than a RTX 6060 class card and certainly not a 6070.

Maybe. But how much is going to cost a not-launch not-founders-edition 6070 in 2027? And the whole system? With AI you may be paying very premium for little advantage in IQ. Magnus is certainly a very interesting product to folks like me that need to can the whole thing in the upgrade.

The 5080 is ~50% faster than the 5070, so unless NVIDIA decides to become generous again, there's almost no chance the 6070 will be faster than the 5080 or Magnus. It might be a fair bit slower in fact. Something like a 6070 Ti will deliver a similar tier of performance, but a lot of this is contingent on how much better RT is since it will be such a big focus.

 

[Radical_3d]

The 5080 is ~50% faster than the 5070, so unless NVIDIA decides to become generous again, there's almost no chance the 6070 will be faster than the 5080 or Magnus. It might be a fair bit slower in fact. Something like a 6070 Ti will deliver a similar tier of performance, but a lot of this is contingent on how much better RT is since it will be such a big focus.

Yeah, 6070 Ti + the rest of the PC: ain't nobody has the money for that!

 

[Dr.D00p]

Rumours are its in line with a RTX 5080 so it will smoke a 6060 if that is the case. Its probably closer to a 6070 to 6070 Ti in Raster. Also, this isnt a GPU that is launching now, its being worked on now. Just like Nvidias silicone will be. Just because we have leaks of the APU now, doesnt mean it will be drastically out of date when it launches.

Then there is the CPU side of things. Only 3 'full fat' Zen 6 cores with 8(?) slower efficiency cores, is going to be pretty anemic compared to a full on 8 core (possibly 12 cores as the new base level configuration) 16t/24t Zen 6.

..and we all know how demanding RT & PT is on the CPU.

 

[Fafalada]

Maybe if you bought a blu-ray player for your PC. If I'm not mistaken, it was one of the biggest reasons the PS3 was so expensive.

I mean for better or worse ps3 was a set top box before being a console so yes.

Otherwise, a PC centered around an 8800 GTX at the time was a lot faster than whatever the consoles could muster and would cost you around ~$1500

When 360 launched it wasn't so clear cut - you could find higher performance gpu but it would cost you.
And frailty frankly on CPU side it wouldn't be until I7 launch that PCs really got ahead in multicore workloads.

Either way, cost:benefit gap was large.

 

[Fafalada]

..and we all know how demanding RT & PT is on the CPU.

I'm not sure that we do. (Non rendering) RT workloads actually map rather well to gpu, more so than traditional raster pipelines.

 

[Jibran#one]

1200 sounds right that's like putting a bullet through the brands head and killing it instead of stabbing it with stupid decisions like 30 dollars gamepass

 

[RetroGamingUK]

1200 sounds right that's like putting a bullet through the brands head and killing it instead of stabbing it with stupid decisions like 30 dollars gamepass

By then Windows will be the focus

"Microsoft Gaming" will be the brand

 

[Shubh_C63]

If these things costs 1000$ I am officially P.O.O.R now.

I honestly think they will opt for two version. Extreme high end and an Xbox Series S sort of extreme low end. Sony and Microsoft both.

 

[Valonquar]

Unless MS knows about some $2000 stimulus check coming down the pipeline, that ain't happening.

 

[PlayStaytion]

I heard the same shit when the 1st titan from nvidia came out. There are nearly a billion pc gamers around the world and MS've earned that number and they have the right to use it however they want.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Plus, they might interest a certain PC crowd looking for a prebuild multi launcher living room box.

I wonder what the european price will be…
For me:
PS5 Pro : $1150 w disc drive
RTX 4090 : $2500
RTX 5090 : $3500
Roughly like that, converted directly from local currency, vat included.

If everything else was the same and if I had to choose between the two, then my instant thought would be to go for the more expensive one. As an enthusiast gamer I don't know the concept of choosing a lower budget alternative. It's just not for me.

But everything else isn't the same…

I think most, or all, are already inside either ecosystem. Deep. At this point it's like mobile phones. You don't buy an Android phone over an iPhone because it's cheaper. You don't swap. You'll go where you already have the same account and game progression and purchases and achievements, trophies, friends lists, etc. And the other device will at best be a side thing bought during a sale but will probably be skipped with no deeper thoughts about it.

And going forward, assuming the rumors are true, then the exclusivity talk will be pointless.
Xbox isn't needed when all MS games are coming to PlayStation.
PlayStation isn't needed when all Sony games are coming to Xbox(through Steam).

It's going to be weird, unless strategies are changed.

Also, as a PC gamer - Do I need any of them???
Serious question. I already have a living room PC. I think they both need to pull some kind of rabbit out of their hat to truly interest me.

Nice post, very eloquently stated.

To add few points, Sony games coming to Xbox won't just be through Steam. Epic is also an option. However, a Sony PC store could be their best option. Or even native Xbox ecosystem versions if they want the highest sales from Xbox users, and if they want to expand to xCloud.

As a PC Gamer, all depends on how much you care for Denuvo, Anti-cheats, controller first, optimized games.

 

[Thanati]

With Xbox games on Playstation now, what's the point in getting an Xbox?

 

[RoboFu]

id pay $1000 for a powerful small form factor pc.

With Xbox games on Playstation now, what's the point in getting an Xbox?

well if more powerful then that + gamepass.

gamepass is the supposed value of Xbox now.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

With Xbox games on Playstation now, what's the point in getting an Xbox?

Its sure not going to grow their market share but to answer your question this Xbox will mainly appeal to those who have a large Xbox library and want to stay in their ecosystem

I know quite a few people that do not care for Playstation games and have no desire to make that switch to PS

Now I know some may likely jump to PC but not to PS

 

[reinking]

With Xbox games on Playstation now, what's the point in getting an Xbox?

The selling point is this machine would also play PC games in addition to Xbox and the PlayStation games (that Sony brings over to PC). The weird thing for me is that if I get one, it will be a PC replacement for the TV. I doubt I will buy many Xbox/PC games directly from MS. I will most likely opt for the Steam version as that is what I do now. The way things are being described, I see these machines competing with PC more than PlayStation and Nintendo. *IMO, PlayStation and Nintendo already indirectly compete with PC.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

Xbox doa. It's going to be an even bigger bloodbath.

 

[Botan32]

Its sure not going to grow their market share but to answer your question this Xbox will mainly appeal to those who have a large Xbox library and want to stay in their ecosystem

I know quite a few people that do not care for Playstation games and have no desire to make that switch to PS

Now I know some may likely jump to PC but not to PS

If its price exceeds $1,000, few Xbox players will buy it.

 

[Elginer]

Max I'll pay 1000$. Throw in 3 months of game pass and I'll do 25$ bucks more.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

If its price exceeds $1,000, few Xbox players will buy it.

Maybe

Talking to some Xbox friends its really going to come down to performance and what all it can do

Many of us Playstation peeps bought a PS5 then 4 years later bought a Pro

I have said for a while now give players 2 options at launch that includes a highly priced very powerful machine and ditch the mid gen refresh

 

[Botan32]

Maybe

Talking to some Xbox friends its really going to come down to performance and what all it can do

Many of us Playstation peeps bought a PS5 then 4 years later bought a Pro

I have said for a while now give players 2 options at launch that includes a highly priced very powerful machine and ditch the mid gen refresh

That's exactly what Microsoft did with the XSS and XSX, and yet it didn't work.

Furthermore, Microsoft appears to have only one first-party hardware this time around.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

That's exactly what Microsoft did with the XSS and XSX, and yet it didn't work.

Furthermore, Microsoft appears to have only one first-party hardware this time around.

No the Series consoles are not that and you know better

 

[Fess]

As a PC Gamer, all depends on how much you care for Denuvo, Anti-cheats, controller first, optimized games.

Denuvo or anti-cheat has never bothered me but optimization is important. But I can't see anything improving on the Xbox-side over PC on that. It'll be PC versions. And controller, I already use Playnite on the living room PC for a controller UI and almost all games I play use a controller. It's 95% like a multi store console. And it's housing a 4090 so I doubt the Xbox will do better.

PS6 would be interesting if Sony remove PC ports alltogether. But with ports arriving in 1-2 years for 1-2 games per year I hope I can be wise enough to skip it.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Yeah it could be a good strategy if executed properly i think Sony is going in the right direction with the handheld/dock able switch style device alongside the PS6 but we'll have to wait and see how it performs hopefully they don't gimp performance too much.

 

[Neo_game]

$1200 for a APU powered Console/PC hybrid is a bold choice, to be sure.

As impressive as the Magnus APU might look today, in 2027 it's going to be competing against PC gamers buliding PCs with Nvidia 60xx and AMD RDNA 5 discrete GPUs which will be far more powerful.

I really cant see the Magnus delivering better frame rates than a RTX 6060 class card and certainly not a 6070.

Comparing to desktop GPU is not fair but specs are good. BW IMO is low, it is expected to be 672 gb/sec which is same as rtx 5070 but since it will unified memory so will not have access to all of it as well. In comparison SX had 560 gb/secs but only 10gb of it.

 

[PaintTinJr]

Comparing to desktop GPU is not fair but specs are good. BW IMO is low, it is expected to be 672 gb/sec which is same as rtx 5070 but since it will unified memory so will not have access to all of it as well. In comparison SX had 560 gb/secs but only 10gb of it.

Based on the visualisation in Amethyst Cerny/Amd video Universal compression looks like it offers 4 to 1 compression, or the same as what delta colour currently achieves.

 

[twilo99]

$1200 doesn't really inspire confidence for the spec sheet… they will still end up using some soon to be outdated CPU

x3d CPU based machine in the $1400 range sounds much better to me

 

[DragonNCM]

You think anyone outside of .01% of people are going to shell out $1300 with the state of global economy, just to play Xbox...?

Correction...Xbox & PC games
but price is still high....