YCoCg
Member
Look at the past few Windows 11 updates.
I use AI daily, so why is it bad if game developers use it too?
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BattleScar
Member
Are you saying would I be tricked?
I mean I'd like to say I won't be, but I'm not naive enough to assume I wouldn't ever fall for that kind of trick. Yeah, I might well believe in the art and the perception of it.
But... again, what's the point? Part of the point of art, is what goes into making it. If it takes little more than a couple prompts and a few hundred watts of power... kinda takes away the whole premise.
AI for big fixing and keeping databases tidy is ok. But everything that is art-related shouldn't be made by AI. When making art it's about the process, too, about reaching the final conclusion; the process of doing so is so deeply humane and tied to our culture and one's personal experience and memories, not the AI-kind of data collection of millions of samples that has nothing to do with your personal experience you draw inspiration from and that is ultimately the source of your art.
Team Skoda
Member
Interesting you mentioned the going to CD from vinyl, etc., because now, with audiophiles, alot of FLAC formats now use vinyl, since it creates a unique, "plump" sound that can't be recreated through direct stream. In other words, there's still a place for it.
I can only hope that "Human Art" will always have it's place. Fortunately, artist have to create. It's in their soul. We're wired that way and only death will stop us.
That being said too, Indie development will be the thriving area for Human Art where no corpo or program can tell them what they can and can't create.
RoboFu
One of the green rats
the big problem with AI generator images is that it is ripping off everyone. I tried an image of a warrior guy the other day and he had batman gloves and looked like John cena.
BlueManifest
Member
Kinda reminds me of the gas car people saying electric cars don't have a soul lol
Durin
Member
The problem is you got the luddite crowd that hate anything associated with the word, and the corpo suits that try to shove AI into everything beyond sense.
AI is a broad term that encompasses a bunch of different tools and use-cases, and inevitably over time those tools will get better + the use cases increase.
Literally artists since digital began used tools to short-cut parts of the process or re-use components of other work/assets to produce great work.
AI is a broad term that encompasses a bunch of different tools and use-cases, and inevitably over time those tools will get better + the use cases increase.
Literally artists since digital began used tools to short-cut parts of the process or re-use components of other work/assets to produce great work.
diffusionx
Gold Member
If you use AI "all day" in your work then how long until your company cuts out the middleman?
I use Copilot once in a while and it's fucking horrible and useless beyond the most basic queries.
I use Copilot once in a while and it's fucking horrible and useless beyond the most basic queries.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
Considering news coming out of large corpos last couple of weeks, the clear answer seems to be that management does think AI can replace a lot of jobs.
Edit: AI is super useful as a tool. I utilize it to generate presentations from documentation on variety of topics (plenty of manual cleanup), code completion, scripting, brainstorming and a ton more tasks (ML for OCR and data processing has been around for like a decade).
That said, AI is terrible at planning, in depth systems or app architecture and generally more senior level items.
It's also pretty terrible at wholesale coding as full scale AI code and code commits are asking for trouble down the line. Code completion and code assistance are a time saver if you know what you are doing.
There is ton more of useful AI applications of course. It is freaking scary as jobs are being killed by utilizing AI left and right.
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HerjansEagleFeeder
Member
There are obviously many different layers and aspects to this, quite a few fascinating questions in there as well. I'll just quickly add to this: What does it say about you (as in: the recipient of ai output), especially in the context of "art", when you're perfectly satisfied with consuming generated text or other media? Is there are connection between the artist, his art, and the recipient? If yes, is there a uniquely human element to that connection?
Radical_3d
Member
Hollowpoint5557
A Fucking Idiot
It's not bad, and dont let people tell you that it is. People who are mad at A.I. replacing humans are like people who got mad over cars replacing the horse. They simply are on the losing end and will die off eventually for the betterment of our civilization. Humanity will carry on and do what we have always done, adapt and overcome. I, for one, welcome our new A.I. over-lords. Let the record show that when the terminators scrape the net for traitorous humans, that I was always on their side. All hail A.I.
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TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
AmuroChan
Member
It comes down to how you use it. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of shovelware games created entirely by AI on PSN and mobile store fronts. So clearly there are devs out there who will abuse AI to make a quick buck.
If you're using AI to do menial tasks and support/QA type functions, I don't really have an issue with that.
If you're using AI to do menial tasks and support/QA type functions, I don't really have an issue with that.
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Mortisfacio
Member
But that's part of the point. A viewers eyes to art is only the story behind the art. If quality AI art is shown and the "artist" makes up a story to go along with it, what's the difference? It comes to a point of the only difference being the viewers perception of artistic integrity. That's gone if an "artist" fabricates a story for it.
Syphon Filter
Member
AI is cancer and Poison, then the games wont be creative and have soul anymore.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
You can be creative with the actual important stuff that matters while saving time by letting an AI take care of all the menial shit.
Parazels
Member
This is exactly how your brain works.
Parazels
Member
What would you do if AI generated a mind-blowing melody? Not a full song but a sequence of notes that could definitely be turned into a good song?
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Aenima
Member
Thers nothing wrong with using AI. But thers a diference between using AI to assist you, and using AI to replace someone else work. The later is usually found in AI slop games that lack consistency and you can easily tell it used AI, while devs that use AI to assist and improve they work, players dont even know they used AI.
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Loxus
Member
I don't agree with that.
Since it's the human that prompts the AI what to create, AI isn't replaceing human creativity, it's a tool that helps you work smarter.
Think of it like a power saw.
It doesn't build a house by itself, but it helps a skilled craftsman get the job done faster, more accurately, and more efficiently than a hand saw.
The same goes for AI. It's all about how you use it.
But before long, knowing how to use AI effectively will be just as essential as knowing how to use any modern tool. Those who don't adapt may find themselves left behind or out of work.
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Ovek
7Member7
It will be the same for humanoid robots when we get to that point. Certain industries like the service industry will cream their pants over the prospect of replacing staff with them. Again it will be to the detriment of said industry but they won't give a fuck they just got a massive pay bonus from the board approved by the shareholders because a line went up 0.5%.
simpatico
Gold Member
AI is a tool like any other. It can be used with skill and artfulness. It can be used the way Starbreeze used bloom in SYNDICATE 2012. Any blanket statements against it are pure hysteria. People felt the same way about wacoms when they first came out. Imagine scroll makers when the printing press dropped. Shambles probably.
With art easy is not what u want. Turning things easy into workplace is a difrent matter also if ai is making it easier and you get replaced by ai then I guess it didn't work out so well for you
bajouras
Member
Not bad. I just don't want to waste 10 hours grinding for a skin that the devs generated in a minute. For me, sometimes using AI detracts from a value, if said value is tied to process.
Besides that. As a designer/illustrator in the web app department, our boss made us use it everyday. We just can't compete with it speed wise, specially if our clients don't really care abou the details. I still do what I used to do, but all the fun was left behind. The old way of doing things is just a hobby for many people now.
Besides that. As a designer/illustrator in the web app department, our boss made us use it everyday. We just can't compete with it speed wise, specially if our clients don't really care abou the details. I still do what I used to do, but all the fun was left behind. The old way of doing things is just a hobby for many people now.
ViciousAgenda
Member
I just said I wouldn't use it.What would you do if AI generated a mind-blowing melody? Not a full song but a sequence of notes that could definitely be turned into a good song?
kevboard
Member
it produces shitty code that has to constantly be bugfixed by humans.
there are already programmers reporting that their entire job now is fixing issues instead of doing it correctly in the first place, because their firm forces them to use AI.
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Knightime_X
Member
I know someone who hates ai because it "steals" art work.
This is the same person that traces other people's art and style for his own use.
Like bro....
This is the same person that traces other people's art and style for his own use.
Like bro....
Knightime_X
Member
It's not perfect (yet) but eventually, humans fixing shoddy ai code will be a thing of the past.
it's only a matter of time.
Draugoth
Gold Member
Calling Generative AI creative is a stretch. The tech would be probably worthless without the internet to scrap data for training. It's basically thousands of GPUs lined up running extremely inefficient predictive algorithms though a black-box not so different of a slot-machine. You don't know how the model came to the solution of your output neither if the results are correct. Even with local models using workflows you are still limited in what you can achieve.
The monkey compassion is good, Machine Learning is essentially Infinite Monkey Theorem on steroids. You can teach a monkey how to paint but it doesn't mean it knows what the fuck it's even doing, it's basically just mimicking the humans, the same goes for LLMs, which don't really think, they just can process a lot of information.
The artist still has control of every single pixel with traditional tools, which is why Generative AI still hasn't been massively used in movies/anime/games industry as they are still behind traditional tools in results.
Now the day AGI happens than it's pretty much game over to the creative field, but most experts agree we won't be living to see it.
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Kamina
Golden Boy
It always boils down to how it is used and what it is used for.
If devs use it to synthesize soulless writing or voice-acting in order to avoid having to play for actors and writers, people are generally not happy.
If they use it during the creative process of writing, e.g. in order to improve an existing text, it could be helpful.
Generally the fear is that an over-use of ai will lead to low quality slob because the human attention to detail is missing.
Look at the recent examples of AI use in journalistic writing, in which they haven't even proofread the text they told the AI to create, left in AI specific lines like "let me know if blablabla" and published. Imagine games being full of that just because of cut corners due to greed.
However, for indie devs AI, even in the creative process, could be a massive help to reduce workload. And as others have said, the outcome determines the quality of the work. I have seen many examples of Ai voiceacting that were very good, but that usually means a human generated the voicelines over and over again until they fit the mood and tone fitting the situation in the story.
If devs use it to synthesize soulless writing or voice-acting in order to avoid having to play for actors and writers, people are generally not happy.
If they use it during the creative process of writing, e.g. in order to improve an existing text, it could be helpful.
Generally the fear is that an over-use of ai will lead to low quality slob because the human attention to detail is missing.
Look at the recent examples of AI use in journalistic writing, in which they haven't even proofread the text they told the AI to create, left in AI specific lines like "let me know if blablabla" and published. Imagine games being full of that just because of cut corners due to greed.
However, for indie devs AI, even in the creative process, could be a massive help to reduce workload. And as others have said, the outcome determines the quality of the work. I have seen many examples of Ai voiceacting that were very good, but that usually means a human generated the voicelines over and over again until they fit the mood and tone fitting the situation in the story.
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Laptop1991
Member
Well the humans haven't been exciting us gamers in recent years with their quality and talent so why not let the AI's have a go, can't be worse than some of the games they have released in recent years lol.
Draugoth
Gold Member
The reality is that AI companies sold the illusion that the tech is cheap, quite on the contrary, it's dumb expensive and they use too much processing power, each new iteration is tenfold more expensive. Token and monthly prices will start skyrocketing in 2026 and 2027 and when that happens, people won't be paying extra money to generate pretty pictures and fake videos.
Dumber local models can't compete with real artists, but they deliver considerably faster results and can actually be used by artists without compromising their creativity. I think the future of this tech will be dumb but fast and efficient models that can run on any home pc.
Crunchyroll has been using AI for subtitles and they are completely trash.
Artists have been scrutinized as 'not a real job' for millennia, but people forget that behind every Netflix show there are hundreds of artists working years for hours of your entertainment. Funnily enough, Indie Animation is going on a Renaissance.
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Well said though I would say the last one is the worst/highest extent and coding the lesser extent. In assets you can notice when it creates cover images of a zombie with 6 fingers but coding I couldn't care less as long as it gets the job done well. I don't know whether to blame poor coding on AI or the individual when it's bad/broken.
yurinka
Member
It isn't bad, the opposite. Helps to improve productivity in many things.
People just have to know where, how and for what to use it, and to use it responsably.
Like any tool, it's helpful when well used where, when and how it makes sense.
diffusionx
Gold Member
why do people persist with this stupid idea that AI is only being used for "grunt work" or doing stuff like generating brick textures. First of all they don't need to generate brick textures. Texture libraries have been around for decades and game devs have used them. They're not using AI for that. They are using it to make garbage assets to sell to retards. For example look at COD battle pass which is 90% shitty AI generated decals and artwork. They look like shit and the game looks like shit but MS doesn't care. If the dev and publisher doesn't give a shit about the game why should I?
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Unfortunatecookie
Member
It's about job displacement.
For example, if you want an accurate translation from Japanese to French, you find a person who can do the translation. AI enables studios to 'remove' that person from the equation, leading to loss of employment opportunity and a potentially lower quality translation.
Now, it's really hard to give a fuck about a person you don't know not getting a job due to AI or globalization or whatever reason. Really really hard. So here's how to quickly care about it:
1) Do you want to pay more in taxes?
2) Do you want to pay the same or even more money for a lesser quality product?
If the answer is no to both, then you should start thinking about what happens when it's not just 1 guy (that loses out on a job) and instead, it's 10,000,000 guys or 50,000,000 guys or 200,000,000+ guys. It's not a happy ending.
Regression or artificial stagnation from technological advancements has never worked and will never work. We'd still be handwashing clothes or using clickity clack button phones or going to work on a horse if we just said no to innovations and revolutionary inventions.
But we need to be smart about adopting technological advancements that are -- based on multiple projections from credible, non-biased institutions -- genuinely poised to displace tens of millions of jobs, all over the world, in an extremely small timeframe.
The videogame industry is going through an extreme makeover right now. Major platform holders, publishers, and seasoned developers are failing out of the industry -- spurring massive job losses, project cancelations, and complete 180s on entire business models. If AI leads to even more job losses, cancelations, and 180s, you better be ready for a barren creative landscape with no solution in sight. No happy ending for anyone.
For example, if you want an accurate translation from Japanese to French, you find a person who can do the translation. AI enables studios to 'remove' that person from the equation, leading to loss of employment opportunity and a potentially lower quality translation.
Now, it's really hard to give a fuck about a person you don't know not getting a job due to AI or globalization or whatever reason. Really really hard. So here's how to quickly care about it:
1) Do you want to pay more in taxes?
2) Do you want to pay the same or even more money for a lesser quality product?
If the answer is no to both, then you should start thinking about what happens when it's not just 1 guy (that loses out on a job) and instead, it's 10,000,000 guys or 50,000,000 guys or 200,000,000+ guys. It's not a happy ending.
Regression or artificial stagnation from technological advancements has never worked and will never work. We'd still be handwashing clothes or using clickity clack button phones or going to work on a horse if we just said no to innovations and revolutionary inventions.
But we need to be smart about adopting technological advancements that are -- based on multiple projections from credible, non-biased institutions -- genuinely poised to displace tens of millions of jobs, all over the world, in an extremely small timeframe.
The videogame industry is going through an extreme makeover right now. Major platform holders, publishers, and seasoned developers are failing out of the industry -- spurring massive job losses, project cancelations, and complete 180s on entire business models. If AI leads to even more job losses, cancelations, and 180s, you better be ready for a barren creative landscape with no solution in sight. No happy ending for anyone.
Fortuneelsewhere
Member
In a few years you'll be asking "why AI don't use humans to make games?"
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
Your analogy went in a different direction to the one I expected. I thought you might say that if AI creates images with additional fingers, everyone notices it, but when it creates code that means the entire program runs inefficiently it could be an issue that nobody notices or understands.
And I'd agree with you, because theoretically, what if the code isn't very secure and is exploited as a way to leak your personal details and payment methods?
Because everyone will be using AI, including the bad guys who'll be constantly using it to push at and test systems. And that'll go from trying to breach national security all the way to trying to get confused old ladies to buy gift cards.
If AI takes coding jobs away and fewer people can get paid to do it, how long before there aren't graduates entering the workforce with graduate level skills? How long before people with experience retrain and never return? What happens if you need people to urgently fix the code that is leaking everyone's data?
Something like that.
But also, what if it takes serious human intervention to fix the code equivalent of a sixth finger over and over and over again in a piece of code - which just means you can't get it running beyond something you might consider "just about good enough" ?
What if that intervention doubles the cost of production?
I think the cost might not be worth it and "just about good enough" could end up being: "ok"
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The consequences of bad code are certainly worse than some art but I'm going purely on what people notice and I personally am really not sure whether an intern writing bad code is worse than an intern using AI to write bad code in that scenario. I've only noticed the telltale signs of bad AI art.
AI I think is a little more thorough when it comes to possible bugs and can write better code to pass unit tests but I think there are times when it doesn't know the specifics of a task either and needs a human to check it properly. Take AI trying to play chess as another example, it started to make illegal moves because it didn't really know the "world model", the game's rules, it just knew what it needed to do to "win" (pass tests in the coding case for example).
The Cockatrice
I'm retarded?
OP just realized his job is probably fucked, thats why he hasnt bothered answering lmao.
Esppiral
Member
AI will replace you eventually then.
PlayStaytion
Member
Let's agree on all roles aren't created equal, it's common knowledge and not a secret.