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[ZehDon]

steady pace?

they took 6 years to release outerworlds 2 and avowed 2 after releasing outer worlds 1 in 2019. granted they made them both at the same time so they are better than most, and their UE5 usage is above average, but they can and should definitely do better.

Averaging one game every three years is better than 95% of the AA or AAA industry. And their games are trying to use modern technology, too.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Averaging one game every three years is better than 95% of the AA or AAA industry. And their games are trying to use modern technology, too.

2014 - South park stick of truth
2015 - Pillars of Eternity
2016 - Tyranny
2018 - Pillars of Eternity 2
2019 - Outer worlds
2022 - Grounded (early access 2020)
2022 - Pentiment
2025 - Avowed (was aiming 2024)
2025 - Outer worlds 2
202x - Grounded 2 (early access 2025)

I fucking loved their 2014-2018 output on smaller scale games. I want to see more of that. Bring on PoE 3.

Outer worlds 2 announced in 2021 with a trailer mocking that they have nothing really made for it yet. ~4 years dev time on UE5, not bad.
Avowed was in development hell with first director, rebooted from a skyrim like persistent world to a 4 player coop to a RPG-lite with doom'esque wizard combat. Avowed 2 should be really fast to make as they know what worked and what didn't but its not like inventing a franchise.

I quite like their pace to be honest and there's likely a lot of adjustment that happened when microsoft bought them at the end of 2018.

Out of all the microsoft studios, they seem to be one of the only or few ones that actually ship games. Feargus has seen all sorts of working conditions and budgets throughout his career and the bottom of the barrel scrapping for pennies on kickstarters so. I thought this studio would have died at least a dozen times since the past 2 decades.

 

[SlimySnake]

Horizon Remaster.

Also tried Where Winds Meet. Very last gen Ghosts of Yotei looking game. Lighting very similar to both Ghosts and Horizon games. Draw distance is bad, but art style is fairly decent.

 

[SlimySnake]

Speaking of UE5. The Horizon MMO is built on UE5 though it doesnt look that much better than Horizon 2 on Decima. It's a mobile game, but looks very good to me.

3 minutes of gameplay footage here. The last boss fight in the burning forest looks really good, but the rest looks fairly similar to Horizon 2 with maybe a little more detail and slightly more accurate AO and shadows.



Regardless, I think it's a very unique and rare thing to see a game with an identical art sytle and assets appear on two entirely different engines. Very good oppurtunity for people like DF to do a deep dive and see if they can find what elements are better in either engine. Gotta say the cross gen HFW is holding up pretty well against the UE5 PC version.

 

[Sept Terrion Of Nothing]

Speaking of UE5. The Horizon MMO is built on UE5 though it doesnt look that much better than Horizon 2 on Decima. It's a mobile game, but looks very good to me.

3 minutes of gameplay footage here. The last boss fight in the burning forest looks really good, but the rest looks fairly similar to Horizon 2 with maybe a little more detail and slightly more accurate AO and shadows.



Regardless, I think it's a very unique and rare thing to see a game with an identical art sytle and assets appear on two entirely different engines. Very good oppurtunity for people like DF to do a deep dive and see if they can find what elements are better in either engine. Gotta say the cross gen HFW is holding up pretty well against the UE5 PC version.

It looks good but I hope Guerrilla Games won't abandon Decima. Because Horizon's third game will come. I won't spoil any story details here but 3rd game is not a choice, it is a must from story perspective.

Therefore GG need to push themselves about this. They are first party, their latest content (Burning Shores) released 2,5 years ago, new game will be releasing to PS5 etc., etc. They should at least offer AC: Shadows graphical details in Horizon 3. If we don't see this (or beyond) level from Sony's first party developer then I won't expect from Sony ever again (which is very low right now already).

 

[Sept Terrion Of Nothing]

Accidentaly quote my self. Cannot erase this. We need deleting message function

 

[coachmcguirk91]

It looks good but I hope Guerrilla Games won't abandon Decima. Because Horizon's third game will come. I won't spoil any story details here but 3rd game is not a choice, it is a must from story perspective.

Therefore GG need to push themselves about this. They are first party, their latest content (Burning Shores) released 2,5 years ago, new game will be releasing to PS5 etc., etc. They should at least offer AC: Shadows graphical details in Horizon 3. If we don't see this (or beyond) level from Sony's first party developer then I won't expect from Sony ever again (which is very low right now already).

I don't believe we get Horizon 3 until at least 2030. Guerrilla Games is putting all their resources into their own Horizon Online Monster Hunter like game

 

[YeulEmeralda]

2014 - South park stick of truth
2015 - Pillars of Eternity
2016 - Tyranny
2018 - Pillars of Eternity 2
2019 - Outer worlds
2022 - Grounded (early access 2020)
2022 - Pentiment
2025 - Avowed (was aiming 2024)
2025 - Outer worlds 2
202x - Grounded 2 (early access 2025)

I fucking loved their 2014-2018 output on smaller scale games. I want to see more of that. Bring on PoE 3.

Outer worlds 2 announced in 2021 with a trailer mocking that they have nothing really made for it yet. ~4 years dev time on UE5, not bad.
Avowed was in development hell with first director, rebooted from a skyrim like persistent world to a 4 player coop to a RPG-lite with doom'esque wizard combat. Avowed 2 should be really fast to make as they know what worked and what didn't but its not like inventing a franchise.

I quite like their pace to be honest and there's likely a lot of adjustment that happened when microsoft bought them at the end of 2018.

Out of all the microsoft studios, they seem to be one of the only or few ones that actually ship games. Feargus has seen all sorts of working conditions and budgets throughout his career and the bottom of the barrel scrapping for pennies on kickstarters so. I thought this studio would have died at least a dozen times since the past 2 decades.

Some studios do take like 7 years to ship a game but you know that it will be pretty awesome.

Nobody doubts Rockstar or CDPro.

 

[SABRE220]

Speaking of UE5. The Horizon MMO is built on UE5 though it doesnt look that much better than Horizon 2 on Decima. It's a mobile game, but looks very good to me.

3 minutes of gameplay footage here. The last boss fight in the burning forest looks really good, but the rest looks fairly similar to Horizon 2 with maybe a little more detail and slightly more accurate AO and shadows.



Regardless, I think it's a very unique and rare thing to see a game with an identical art sytle and assets appear on two entirely different engines. Very good oppurtunity for people like DF to do a deep dive and see if they can find what elements are better in either engine. Gotta say the cross gen HFW is holding up pretty well against the UE5 PC version.

Wait, you think this looks better than Burning Shores or even Forbidden West? It's impressive that they reproduced the visuals this well, but from what i can see its a step below in overall production quality and detail. When the horizon looks good in its strong areas, it looks great but this just looks average all around.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Played a lot of Where Winds Meet, pretty impressive for a proprietary engine, just missing RT reflections and better draw distance from being fantastic.

Sneaked in one AC Shadows pic here to see which graphics connoisseurs here can tell.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is AC shadows.,

 

[T4keD0wN]

This is AC shadows.,

Alright

Spoiler

First try wins. Ive even tried to make it "difficult" by picking one at night

 

[RavionUHD]

More The Outer Worlds 2 on PC in 4K Ultrawide (5160*2160) with DLDSR, Reshade und RTX HDR:

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Not really. I love that we have one studio that is using an ungodly amount of resources towards one game. Rockstar is going to show the massive technical leap that GTA 6 is compared to every other game. I thought you of all people would respect that

And GTA is a franchise that can be developed once every 10-15 years and I would be fine with it. Make it count and have it be as revolutionary as possible

I agree.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

Same, I am all for advancement, but at what cost? lets say GTA6 is the greatest most advanced next gen game with destruction, physics, NPC AI simulations, water fluid simulations, combat, and all the next gen stuff we've been asking for. It wouldve take 8 years. Thats longer than an entire gen. Way too long. Bring down the scope of the game. It took Michaelangelo 4 years to paint the Sisteen Chapel. Who the fuck are these guys?

Same goes for ND. lets say if they show up with an insane next gen combat trailer next month at the VGA. Thats 5.5 years to reveal what they've been working on, and maybe another 2 years to complete it. 7 years for one game? Come on.

I totally disagree, I don't care how long a game takes to make, if it's a masterpiece milestone in gaming. There shouldn't be a time limit on developers, the problem is giving release dates you can't meet and delaying multiple times after that by months and years.

 

[anyasok]

It looks good but I hope Guerrilla Games won't abandon Decima. Because Horizon's third game will come. I won't spoil any story details here but 3rd game is not a choice, it is a must from story perspective.

Therefore GG need to push themselves about this. They are first party, their latest content (Burning Shores) released 2,5 years ago, new game will be releasing to PS5 etc., etc. They should at least offer AC: Shadows graphical details in Horizon 3. If we don't see this (or beyond) level from Sony's first party developer then I won't expect from Sony ever again (which is very low right now already).

One Horizon FW NPC has more detail than all AC Shadows characters combined

 

[Neo_game]

Wait, you think this looks better than Burning Shores or even Forbidden West? It's impressive that they reproduced the visuals this well, but from what i can see its a step below in overall production quality and detail. When the horizon looks good in its strong areas, it looks great but this just looks average all around.

It looks pretty much the same as if some reshade is applied to it.

 

[GymWolf]

People of this thread, I want your opinions & thoughts on this, it's fine if you disagree, the imperative here is in sharing your thoughts.

OK...so I will begin detailing my thoughts, I have been thinking about this peculiar topic that I am sure has been discussed in this thread a plethora of times, and it's about the scalability & the degrees to which developers can stretch (or, let's be honest downgrade) the baseline or the scalability of their games.

- First: We had the Xbox Series S, it brought genuine concerns from quite a lot of developers in the industry and we kept seeing their concerns trickling out as the years go by during this generation.

- Second: Nintendo Switch 2, its absolute killer sales records would indicate to developers that they should somehow downgrade their games even further, thus redefining the generational baseline in someway.

- Third: The rise of Portable gaming devices, ASUS ROG devices, Aya Neo, Steam Deck, you name it, now we have a verification check that ascertains if a certain game is "Steam Deck Verified" or not.

- Fourth: This is what hit me the most I swear, it's the gameplay reveal of this new Mobile Horizon game, and the backlash that came with it.

I think we are witnessing a very concerning prospect, the main reason why people were bothered to hear that it isn't coming to PS5 or PC is because it...looked just like a Console or PC fidelity experience, it didn't look archaic or laughably outdated game typically associated with Mobile devices, if it looked like how people view Mobile games as, no one would bat an eye on why it's not coming to PS5, but it looked like something you'd get from a PlayStation 4, it quickly hit me with real certainty that the extent to which developers have been holding their games back is huge, it just cannot be understated, and that reason can be traced back to their profit & revenue margin goals, they want their games to run everywhere, that, combined with games taking more budget & time to develop than ever, has fostered a new nebulous "generational" baseline to where developers would like to rest their laurels in, it's this unclear baseline that games have to work on all systems from Steam Deck to the highest-end PC with RTX 5090s, graphics can be scaled up massively, but the core systems of those games, the nuts & bolts of those games, WILL HAVE to scale down to a meager CPU like Switch 2 (which is hardly any better than the Jaguar cores in the PS4 mind you).

Even Sony is jumping in on it, they will be releasing two PS6s, 1 is the home console, the other is the Portable, that holds the PS6 back harder than Series S with the PS5/Series X.

I do not like where this is going, these Mobile devices are holding us generations back, and the funny part about it, is they (your iPhones, Androids, Steam Decks, ASUS ROGs) do not rake in as many sales as companies would like them to.

That leads me back to thinking about GTA 6, will GTA 6 be able to conjure a specific standard that people come to expect from other game developers as to what a true current-gen should strive for? We are almost certainly expecting the game to run at 30FPS on PS5 & Series X with extensive use of Ray Tracing (as seen in the trailers), so I don't think a Switch 2 version will ever materialize without breaking its visual identity & core simulation systems.

This has been my fear for a while, we are probably fucked.

Gta6, crimson desert and a couple more could be the last batch of ambitious titles we see.

I really don't share slimy optimism for the future.

Devs don't have any reason to push the envelope anymore, pride is dead (not the gay pride, we have an entire month of that every year)

 

[GymWolf]

One Horizon FW NPC has more detail than all AC Shadows characters combined

And they are metahumans models, not decima models.

 

[SlimySnake]

This has been my fear for a while, we are probably fucked.

Gta6, crimson desert and a couple more could be the last bach of ambitious titles we see.

I really don't share slimy optimism for the future.

Devs don't have any reason to push the envelope anymore, pride is dead (not the gay pride, we have an entire month of that every year)

I have one question for you. Why did the Series S not hold back next gen visuals?

Hell, even the PS5 and XSX can barely run modern games at 1440p 30 fps. Dropping to 720p in 60 fps modes. Devs who want to push visuals didnt care earlier this gen, they dont care 5 years into the gen, why would this change 2-3 years from now just because some handheld comes out that will sell a fraction of the units the PS6 will sell in its lifetime.

 

[GymWolf]

I have one question for you. Why did the Series S not hold back next gen visuals?

Hell, even the PS5 and XSX can barely run modern games at 1440p 30 fps. Dropping to 720p in 60 fps modes. Devs who want to push visuals didnt care earlier this gen, they dont care 5 years into the gen, why would this change 2-3 years from now just because some handheld comes out that will sell a fraction of the units the PS6 will sell in its lifetime.

Because series s is not a fucking portable\tablet maybe??!

And we are talking about the next gen, so series s is out of the discourse.

steam machine (if it is successful)
Xbox portable
Ps6 portable
Switch 2

Those are the problems.

 

[SlimySnake]

Because series s is not a fucking portable\tablet maybe??!

And we are talking about the next gen, so series s is out of the discourse.

steam machine (if it is successful)
Xbox portable
Ps6 portable
Switch 2

Those are the problems.

Did the switch hold back the PS4 generation?

Is the Switch 2 holding back the PS5 generation? IIRC, we had the same concerns last year when specs were being rumored.

Here are all the big AAA games that have come out since the Switch 2 came out, and have skipped the Switch 2.

- Mafia
- MGS Remake
- Arc Raiders
- Silent Hill F
- Battlefield 6
- COD
- Outer Worlds 2

Cronos is the only one that came out on the Switch 2. And it did not hold back the PS5 version.

AC Shadows, the best looking most technically advanced game of the generation, is set to be backported to the Switch 2 next month. Was it downgraded on consoles?

Handhelds will be treated like a bastard child by devs. They barely treat consoles as step children atm, half of the game arent even designed with the base PS5 specs in mind. Most target high end PC specs and then port down. Why would this change?

if anything, path tracing has ensured that PCs and next gen consoles if they are able, will always look a generation ahead of portables.

Honestly, ive been hearing about these concerns since the Wii era. People saw the Wii selling like hotcakes and were like devs would target those specs. Turns out nobody gave two fucks about the Wii. No one ported any of the big PS360 games despite the massive sales outpacing the PS3 3:1 in the early days of the gen.

p.s steam machine will flop like the steam deck which has sold like 2.5 million units in the last 3-4 years since launch. No one is holding back games for steam hardware.

 

[RodriGames40]

I've seen enough efforts this generation to know that no device is holding back anything, devs just suck at utilizing the existing hardware period. Handheld or not.

 

[GymWolf]

Did the switch hold back the PS4 generation?

Is the Switch 2 holding back the PS5 generation? IIRC, we had the same concerns last year when specs were being rumored.

Here are all the big AAA games that have come out since the Switch 2 came out, and have skipped the Switch 2.

- Mafia
- MGS Remake
- Arc Raiders
- Silent Hill F
- Battlefield 6
- COD
- Outer Worlds 2

Cronos is the only one that came out on the Switch 2. And it did not hold back the PS5 version.

AC Shadows, the best looking most technically advanced game of the generation, is set to be backported to the Switch 2 next month. Was it downgraded on consoles?

Handhelds will be treated like a bastard child by devs. They barely treat consoles as step children atm, half of the game arent even designed with the base PS5 specs in mind. Most target high end PC specs and then port down. Why would this change?

if anything, path tracing has ensured that PCs and next gen consoles if they are able, will always look a generation ahead of portables.

Honestly, ive been hearing about these concerns since the Wii era. People saw the Wii selling like hotcakes and were like devs would target those specs. Turns out nobody gave two fucks about the Wii. No one ported any of the big PS360 games despite the massive sales outpacing the PS3 3:1 in the early days of the gen.

p.s steam machine will flop like the steam deck which has sold like 2.5 million units in the last 3-4 years since launch. No one is holding back games for steam hardware.

I hope you are right but i keep my pessimism intact, better have a positive surprise than the opposite.

Btw i'm more worried by the cpu side of things, not raw graphic.

Shadow is advanced in graphic (characters aside), it does nothing special cpu side, npcs are still few and retarded and it has no revolutionary simulation, even the different seasons are mostly a gimmick, for a switch port they just needed to lower the bells and whistles, same for outlaws.

I fear devs forced to work with mobile cpus, there is no way around if ps6 portable and sw2 are gonna be the baseline.
You wanted horizon 2 to have massive dinobots battles and destruction, good luck achieving that when the game has to run on ps6 portable.

 

[March Climber]

All of the above worries are why I will just be content after we reach Path tracing/Ray tracing as a standardized feature amongst consoles.

Anything that happens afterwards, as slow as it might take due to scalability, I wouldn't care. However with PT/RT being used more and more and devs simply 'turning it off' when a console isn't strong enough for it(thus making a game weirdly faded-looking/stale-looking), that issue specifically needs to be resolved asap.

So if PS6 and Xbox next resolve this, I do not care if it takes 15-20 years for the next leap afterwards while the portables catch up.

 

[SlimySnake]

I hope you are right but i keep my pessimism intact, better have a positive surprise than the opposite.

Btw i'm more worried by the cpu side of things, not raw graphic.

Shadow is advanced in graphic (characters aside), it does nothing special cpu side, npcs are still few and retarded and it has no revolutionary simulation, even the different seasons are mostly a gimmick, for a switch port they just needed to lower the bells and whistles, same for outlaws.

I fear devs forced to work with mobile cpus, there is no way around if ps6 portable and sw2 are gonna be the baseline.
You wanted horizon 2 to have massive dinobots battles and destruction, good luck achieving that when the game has to run on ps6 portable.

i hope whatever Rockstar is doing with physics forces devs to implement those NPC behaviors, physics interactions, and other destruction simulations. This gen's biggest disappointment has been the lack of CPU support. Fucking Matrix demo with 100k cars and 35k pedastrians had me thinking that would be the norm, but nope.

BTW, AC shadows does have some great destruction, and wind effects. And they are porting it to the switch. Witcher 4 tech demo featured some pretty impressive NPC routines and it was running on a base PS5 at 60 fps with hardware ray tracing. I think we will be fine next gen as long as the portable has the same CPU as the PS5 which it should easily.

 

[March Climber]

Fucking Matrix demo with 100k cars and 35k pedastrians had me thinking that would be the norm, but nope.

That demo could not even hold at 30fps though. I do not want to go back to the sub-30fps dark ages on console to satisfy a small subsection of graphics-first gamers.

 

[GymWolf]

i hope whatever Rockstar is doing with physics forces devs to implement those NPC behaviors, physics interactions, and other destruction simulations. This gen's biggest disappointment has been the lack of CPU support. Fucking Matrix demo with 100k cars and 35k pedastrians had me thinking that would be the norm, but nope.

BTW, AC shadows does have some great destruction, and wind effects. And they are porting it to the switch. Witcher 4 tech demo featured some pretty impressive NPC routines and it was running on a base PS5 at 60 fps with hardware ray tracing. I think we will be fine next gen as long as the portable has the same CPU as the PS5 which it should easily.

Oh wow, some limited enviromental destruction, very impressive in 2025...

Not sure why would you pick matrix demo as example of advanced cpu usage, a demo that is not even a full game and had zombie npcs that react to nothing...but hey, fancy traffic tech...


But we always had very different reactions to that demo so this is par for the course i guess

 

[GymWolf]

That demo could not even hold at 30fps though. I do not want to go back to the sub-30fps dark ages on console to satisfy a small subsection of graphics-first gamers.

Not only that, it lacked fundamental stuff that make a game a fucking game.

I would only bring that thing up for graphical fidelity, not impressive simulation or physics.

 

[SlimySnake]

That demo could not even hold at 30fps though. I do not want to go back to the sub-30fps dark ages on console to satisfy a small subsection of graphics-first gamers.

Alex tested it with UE5.4. They improved the performance by 50-80%.

The poor performance was because of the single threaded nature of UE5. Nothing to do with console hardware which has 16 threads.

They have since improved the CPU performance even more in UE5.6. hence why the Witcher 4 demo runs at 60 fps on a base PS5 with hardware lumen.

 

[SlimySnake]

Oh wow, some limited enviromental destruction, very impressive in 2025...

Still better than 99% of the games out there and runs at 60 fps on the base PS5. Albeit with ray tracing off due to GPU bottlenecks. The CPU side is fine. Great looking wind physics on trees as well.

Just for BC's sake they will release the PS6 portable with the same CPU. Similar to how the Series S CPU is identical while the GPU got cutbacks.

The only thing that will hold back devs next gen is themselves. Just like Sony devs this gen. Self imposed limitations. Nothing more. Ambitious, non lazy, non hackish, and talented devs will continue pushing the CPU and GPU to achieve their vision.

 

[Sept Terrion Of Nothing]

Alex tested it with UE5.4. They improved the performance by 50-80%.

The poor performance was because of the single threaded nature of UE5. Nothing to do with console hardware which has 16 threads.

They have since improved the CPU performance even more in UE5.6. hence why the Witcher 4 demo runs at 60 fps on a base PS5 with hardware lumen.

This is all and well but why didn't they activated multithreading when they named their engine "5" way back when? Why is it that they bring huge differences with each decimal iteration? Why isn't it easy for developers to migrate their games to new version of UE.

I always see this title about UE5: "HUUUUUGE UPGRADES/IMPROVEMENTS IN THIS NEW VERSION!!!!!". How is this reliable?

I don't have anything against UE but I really don't like Epic's behaviour. Yes, most of the developers also at fault here but Epic is not innocent. Also I'm totally against monopoly of game engines.

 

[GymWolf]

Still better than 99% of the games out there and runs at 60 fps on the base PS5. Albeit with ray tracing off due to GPU bottlenecks. The CPU side is fine. Great looking wind physics on trees as well.

Just for BC's sake they will release the PS6 portable with the same CPU. Similar to how the Series S CPU is identical while the GPU got cutbacks.

The only thing that will hold back devs next gen is themselves. Just like Sony devs this gen. Self imposed limitations. Nothing more. Ambitious, non lazy, non hackish, and talented devs will continue pushing the CPU and GPU to achieve their vision.

A tablet is gonna have the same cpu as an home console? With same frequency, thermal throttling or whatever the term etc.?
Hard to believe.

 

[Msamy]

Any expectations from half life 3 if it gonna ever happening?

 

[deeptech]

Any expectations from half life 3 if it gonna ever happening?

not much of general presentation, but I expect alot from attention to detail, the lost art imo.

 

[adamsapple]

Any expectations from half life 3 if it gonna ever happening?

Let's assume it will be based around the Steam PC specs, probably not gonna be breaking much ground technically but I expect lots of good physics, at least.

 

[MDSLKTR]

Any expectations from half life 3 if it gonna ever happening?

About as good as Alyx optimized to run on a steambox, and I'm totally fine with it

 

[RodriGames40]

About as good as Alyx optimized to run on a steambox, and I'm totally fine with it

The Steam Box is still north of 8 TFLOPS with 4.8 Ghz Zen 4, I wouldn't consider that a limitation for anything frankly, especially now that it's a normal game (not VR which requires 90 fps and up).

 

[GudOlRub]

Gabecube's GPU may be underpowered but the CPU is nothing to laugh about, taking that into consideration I fully expect Valve to go bonkers on physics and all other kinds of crazy stuff that push the CPU hard.
Graphics-wise it probably won't be the lastest and greatest but Alyx proves that their art and tech departments are more than capable of making up for decent enough graphics with very good design.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

About as good as Alyx optimized to run on a steambox, and I'm totally fine with it

Man, I wish Alyx looked that good through my Quest 2 lenses. It's a real looker, for sure.

 

[SlimySnake]

This is all and well but why didn't they activated multithreading when they named their engine "5" way back when? Why is it that they bring huge differences with each decimal iteration? Why isn't it easy for developers to migrate their games to new version of UE.

I always see this title about UE5: "HUUUUUGE UPGRADES/IMPROVEMENTS IN THIS NEW VERSION!!!!!". How is this reliable?

I don't have anything against UE but I really don't like Epic's behaviour. Yes, most of the developers also at fault here but Epic is not innocent. Also I'm totally against monopoly of game engines.

Yeah, thats why i was criticizing Epic a few pages back. I am all for these new features and performance improvements, but we still had to contend with almost 5 years of bad Unreal Engine games. Lets not forget UE4 cross gen games like Gotham Knights, Callisto, and Jedi Survivor had a lot of issues as well. Gotham knights was 30 fps on consoles because the CPU couldnt track 2 players in a big open world which is ridiculous but thats the explanation the devs gave.

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

I have one question for you. Why did the Series S not hold back next gen visuals?

Hell, even the PS5 and XSX can barely run modern games at 1440p 30 fps. Dropping to 720p in 60 fps modes. Devs who want to push visuals didnt care earlier this gen, they dont care 5 years into the gen, why would this change 2-3 years from now just because some handheld comes out that will sell a fraction of the units the PS6 will sell in its lifetime.

The reason I think a handheld will hold back next gen is because the tools and engines held back the hardware this gen except a handful of engines like UE5, Snowdrop, Anvil Next and Rage Engine. The current gen consoles are 5x to 6x+ more powerful than last gen consoles, but where are the games that look WAAAY better than Spiderman, TLOU 2, Red Dead Redemption 2 etc? Like I have said before TLOU 2 was done on 1.84TF.... The games that have an actual next gen leap all have something in common, they are built on "next gen" engines that use Microgeometry, RTGI and other features. Most engines used this gen are just outdated, using baked lighting RTGI hybrids, zero microgeometry etc. Most companies didn't have the budget or had greedy suits that prevented engine upgrades and hiring of devs who actually had knowledge and skill instead of DEI hires and bare minimum effort. Most casuals think PS4.5 games at 60fps are "next gen". Simply put, most engines are outdated. You will not get next gen visuals without the next gen technology needed. Visuals today are missing consistent clothes physics, polycount is still horribly low, textures are still bad, RGTI is there but Pathtracing is the future, special effects are still gamey looking, water simulation is gamey, character models are great but have a long way to go. Hellblade 2 is the next gen visual king as of now and is one of a few games that look like a massive leap versus last gen and even Hellblade 2's Gameplay Character models could look Way better with way more geometry and non gamey looking textures. Next gen (PS6, Xbox Next, RTX 6000 series) is when hardware is way better in game changing areas than it is today, UE5 and UE6 will shine with perfect geometry, standard RTGI if wanted and Path tracing in some games. I think a handheld would definitely hold back the 40+ TFLOP standard next gen.

 

[SlimySnake]

The reason I think a handheld will hold back next gen is because the tools and engines held back the hardware this gen except a handful of engines like UE5, Snowdrop, Anvil Next and Rage Engine. The current gen consoles are 5x to 6x+ more powerful than last gen consoles, but where are the games that look WAAAY better than Spiderman, TLOU 2, Red Dead Redemption 2 etc? Like I have said before TLOU 2 was done on 1.84TF.... The games that have an actual next gen leap all have something in common, they are built on "next gen" engines that use Microgeometry, RTGI and other features. Most engines used this gen are just outdated, using baked lighting RTGI hybrids, zero microgeometry etc. Most companies didn't have the budget or had greedy suits that prevented engine upgrades and hiring of devs who actually had knowledge and skill instead of DEI hires and bare minimum effort. Most casuals think PS4.5 games at 60fps are "next gen". Simply put, most engines are outdated. You will not get next gen visuals without the next gen technology needed. Visuals today are missing consistent clothes physics, polycount is still horribly low, textures are still bad, RGTI is there but Pathtracing is the future, special effects are still gamey looking, water simulation is gamey, character models are great but have a long way to go. Hellblade 2 is the next gen visual king as of now and is one of a few games that look like a massive leap versus last gen and even Hellblade 2's Gameplay Character models could look Way better with way more geometry and non gamey looking textures. Next gen (PS6, Xbox Next, RTX 6000 series) is when hardware is way better in game changing areas than it is today, UE5 and UE6 will shine with perfect geometry, standard RTGI if wanted and Path tracing in some games. I think a handheld would definitely hold back the 40+ TFLOP standard next gen.

But if Hellblade 2 was developed with Series S in mind, and still took advantage of next gen features in UE5, why wont they do that again for Hellblade 3?

like you said, the engines determine whether or not a game is next gen. Not the hardware. Same will be true next gen. lazy devs who refuse to upgrade their engine like KojiPro and Sucker Punch will hold themselves back. At the start of this gen, everyone said that the xbox series x will be held back by the series S, but nope, everyone of their studios either embraced UE5 or added realtime GI to their own engines leading to some very next gen looking games. Meanwhile Sony studios with no Series S versions to worry about decided to limit themselves to PS4 performance profiles, even for non-cross gen games.

I really dont see why Capcom, Massive, CD Project, Game Science, Machine Games, ID Software, and other developers who have already added Path Tracing to their engines and games will get rid of them come next gen just because of the PS6 portable. RE9 has path tracing and its on the Switch 2.

The only devs who have phoned in this gen are the cucks over at Sony. And they will hold themselves back with the PS6 portable. Everyone else will continue pushing the bar because they are not garbage. It might take time to get true next gen games built on 40 tlfops, just like how it took 3 years for this gen to start releasing next gen only games. But in the meantime, im sure we will have path traced versions of cross games on the PS6 from real devs like Rockstar, Capcom, Massive and CD Project. Simply because path tracing on PC is becoming more and more common in 2025. By 2028 or whenver ps6 releases, it will be the norm for most games.

 

[T4keD0wN]

We have decades of PC history that should put all these worries to rest. No devs target the same resolution, same framerates, same graphical features on all devices.

I dont bitch about Alan Wake 2 having a console version without pathtracing, but maybe i should. Series S didnt stop Indiana Jones from having pathtracing. Cyberpunk runs on HDDs and its available on last gen while having pathtracing. SW Outlaws runs and looks well on a Switch 2, i get 100% GPU usage on a 5090 in the same games. The difference between "next gen" handhelds and next gen consoles will be far smaller than that.

We have RTX3050 to worry about, but not a single dev cares that this thing exists. Zero reason to worry about any piece of hardware holding visuals back.

 

[Jack Howitzer]

We have RTX3050 to worry about, but not a single dev cares that this thing exists.

Well in this case most of devs haven't been given a single fuck about outdated pc specs for more than 20 years I can assure u that lolllll

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

We have decades of PC history that should put all these worries to rest. No devs target the same resolution, same framerates, same graphical features on all devices.

I dont bitch about Alan Wake 2 having a console version without pathtracing, but maybe i should. Series S didnt stop Indiana Jones from having pathtracing. Cyberpunk runs on HDDs and its available on last gen while having pathtracing. SW Outlaws runs and looks well on a Switch 2, i get 100% GPU usage on a 5090 in the same games. The difference between "next gen" handhelds and next gen consoles will be far smaller than that.

We have RTX3050 to worry about, but not a single dev cares that this thing exists. Zero reason to worry about any piece of hardware holding visuals back.

When you have lower spec hardware to develop for, things will sometimes take a hit. A lot of devs complained about Series S and Microsoft's parity requirement. Assets and general game design will sometimes take a hit, it's not as simple as dropping the resolution and lowering the framerate for lower spec. If a dev goes into developing a game with a baseline of a certain spec they will usually code for it and higher. Imagine if TLOU 2 had to run on much weaker machines or multiple specs and Sony couldn't optimize to the metal. TLOU 2 was literally downgraded and we never got the E3 2018 version. If what you are saying is true then why are games, even games that could run at maximum potential on powerful PCs downgraded before launch?

 

[ResetEraVetVIP]

But if Hellblade 2 was developed with Series S in mind, and still took advantage of next gen features in UE5, why wont they do that again for Hellblade 3?

like you said, the engines determine whether or not a game is next gen. Not the hardware. Same will be true next gen. lazy devs who refuse to upgrade their engine like KojiPro and Sucker Punch will hold themselves back. At the start of this gen, everyone said that the xbox series x will be held back by the series S, but nope, everyone of their studios either embraced UE5 or added realtime GI to their own engines leading to some very next gen looking games. Meanwhile Sony studios with no Series S versions to worry about decided to limit themselves to PS4 performance profiles, even for non-cross gen games.

I really dont see why Capcom, Massive, CD Project, Game Science, Machine Games, ID Software, and other developers who have already added Path Tracing to their engines and games will get rid of them come next gen just because of the PS6 portable. RE9 has path tracing and its on the Switch 2.

The only devs who have phoned in this gen are the cucks over at Sony. And they will hold themselves back with the PS6 portable. Everyone else will continue pushing the bar because they are not garbage. It might take time to get true next gen games built on 40 tlfops, just like how it took 3 years for this gen to start releasing next gen only games. But in the meantime, im sure we will have path traced versions of cross games on the PS6 from real devs like Rockstar, Capcom, Massive and CD Project. Simply because path tracing on PC is becoming more and more common in 2025. By 2028 or whenver ps6 releases, it will be the norm for most games.

Who knows what was downgraded for Hellblade 2.

The making of Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 - the Ninja Theory interview

Breaking down an Unreal Engine 5 technological showcase

www.digitalfoundry.net

Xbox Series S was 'annoying to optimize for,' Suicide Squad developer says

We've seen some developers speak out on the Series S' weaker hardware, including Remedy, who launched Control on Series X/S. Remember that the Series S' GPU is 61% weaker than the Series X, with nearly 40% less RAM. This reduction in power and memory has apparently caused headaches for...

icon-era.com

Id Software Devs Express Their Concerns Over the Xbox Series S’ Hardware Specs; Memory “Situation” Not Easy to Compensate

Several devs at id Software have expressed their concerns over the specs of Microsoft’s Xbox Series S, more specifically, its memory.

wccftech.com

[Update: Clarification] Remedy Developer Expresses Concern Over Xbox Series S' Announcement, Calls It "Trouble!!!"

One developer has come out expressing concern over Microsoft's budget-priced next gen console when it comes to developing power.

wccftech.com

 

[Gonzito]

About as good as Alyx optimized to run on a steambox, and I'm totally fine with it

Yeah the game doesn't even remotely look like that when playing with a VR headset

 

[BlownUpRich]

Did the switch hold back the PS4 generation?

Is the Switch 2 holding back the PS5 generation? IIRC, we had the same concerns last year when specs were being rumored.

Here are all the big AAA games that have come out since the Switch 2 came out, and have skipped the Switch 2.

- Mafia
- MGS Remake
- Arc Raiders
- Silent Hill F
- Battlefield 6
- COD
- Outer Worlds 2

Cronos is the only one that came out on the Switch 2. And it did not hold back the PS5 version.

AC Shadows, the best looking most technically advanced game of the generation, is set to be backported to the Switch 2 next month. Was it downgraded on consoles?

Handhelds will be treated like a bastard child by devs. They barely treat consoles as step children atm, half of the game arent even designed with the base PS5 specs in mind. Most target high end PC specs and then port down. Why would this change?

if anything, path tracing has ensured that PCs and next gen consoles if they are able, will always look a generation ahead of portables.

Honestly, ive been hearing about these concerns since the Wii era. People saw the Wii selling like hotcakes and were like devs would target those specs. Turns out nobody gave two fucks about the Wii. No one ported any of the big PS360 games despite the massive sales outpacing the PS3 3:1 in the early days of the gen.

p.s steam machine will flop like the steam deck which has sold like 2.5 million units in the last 3-4 years since launch. No one is holding back games for steam hardware.

It's the constant push towards 60 FPS on base consoles just so they can be scaled down to lower-powered devices, I don't think this concern can be simply deflated by mentioning a few examples (AC Shadows is a 60fps game, last-gen AC games all ran at 30fps), it's about the entire holistic game design & target approach that seems to ever be leaning towards designing more games with much more emphasis on being able to "scale back" to lower devices like: (Switch 2, "Steam Deck verified", future PS6 Portable & Steam Machine), it fosters a development culture & goals where games don't have to strive for greater, more complex worlds with many innovative features that heighten fidelity & depth on a simulation scale.

Graphics quality can be highly scalable yes, but not the core game design, which is held back all the way back to Switch 2 which has a CPU that's barely more powerful than the PS4's Jaguar cores, keep in mind, PS6 is coming in 2027 (according to what KeplerL2 said several hours ago), so the bottleneck will get even crazier & more scathing tbh, we are not utilizing these consoles to their fullest, we're letting them more or less, brute force to 60fps and higher (it'll get much more muddy with next-gen AI-generated frames and such).

There's a reason why people laugh at the idea of GTA 6 coming to Switch 2, because it'll presumably be a 30FPS game utilizing every possible ounce of power from current-gen consoles. If it somehow came to Switch 2, I assure you it'll be a different game altogether and I don't think Rockstar would want to tamper with their own vision like that.

I'm interested in what GymWolf will say…!

 

[GymWolf]

It's the constant push towards 60 FPS on base consoles just so they can be scaled down to lower-powered devices, I don't think this concern can be simply deflated by mentioning a few examples (AC Shadows is a 60fps game, last-gen AC games all ran at 30fps), it's about the entire holistic game design & target approach that seems to ever be leaning towards designing more games with much more emphasis on being able to "scale back" to lower devices like: (Switch 2, "Steam Deck verified", future PS6 Portable & Steam Machine), it fosters a development culture & goals where games don't have to strive for greater, more complex worlds with many innovative features that heighten fidelity & depth on a simulation scale.

Graphics quality can be highly scalable yes, but not the core game design, which is held back all the way back to Switch 2 which has a CPU that's barely more powerful than the PS4's Jaguar cores, keep in mind, PS6 is coming next year (according to what KeplerL2 said several hours ago), so the bottleneck will get even crazier & more scathing tbh, we are not utilizing these consoles to their fullest, we're letting them more of less, brute force to 60fps and higher (it'll get much more muddy with next-gen AI-generated frames and such).

There's a reason why people laugh at the idea of GTA 6 coming to Switch 2, because it'll presumably be a 30FPS game utilizing every possible ounce of power from current-gen consoles. If it somehow came to Switch 2, I assure you it'll be a different game altogether and I don't think Rockstar would want to tamper with their own vision like that.

I'm interested in what GymWolf will say…!

I guess we ha e to wait and see how many devs are gonna bend the knee to favor portables.

Slimy think we are safe, i think devs realized how successful sw1 was and they are not gonna make the same mistake with sw2, ps6 portable etc.