SirKicksalot
Member
Yes it's good. It's long but better paced than 2 so it feels shorter.
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Avatar: Fire and Ash | Official Trailer
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JeTmAn81
Member
I liked him dancing with coconut boobies
Neolombax
Member
I liked it way more than Way of Water, but the first movie still is my personal favorite. As always, its a visual spectacle no doubt. Watched it in 3D with the kids, and they were quite pleased with the experience. Was kind of hoping the movie would feature a different biome, that was always one of the draws for me personally with these Avatar movies, but it did not, hence it feels like a DLC for Way of Water, a good one however. Some parts of the story just feels like a retelling of the previous movies, with the final scene very much a mix of Avatar 1 & 2. Its not original, but its a fun ride. I recommend watching this on the best screen possible.
Ulysses 31
Member
MaestroMike
Gold Member
JimmyRustler
Member
She was just the right amount of crazy hot alright...
That said, I found that with her the series finally got a good antagonist. Quaritch was ok in the first and shit in the sequel.
I saw the movie yesterday in IMAX HFR and loved it to bits. So much better than the lukewarm second part. No kid drama anymore, thank god. Perhaps it would be nice for them to finally figure out if they want Quaritch to be good or bad but yeah, at some point you just have to go along with it. Just like Neytiri's back and forth between insane and not. Or some other stuff which I won't name at this point due to spoilers. It's like they couldn't decide on many of the characters motivations and changed them on the fly multiple times. Quite confusing.... Well, let's see how all this pays off at the end.
Ticket for next week is bought. Plan is to watch in on the next few Monday every week until I start working again. This movie is such a bliss on IMAX (as much as I love watching movies on OLED), I want to enjoy this as much as possible while I still can. Especially cause the next Avatar isn't out until 2029...
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The ninja farmer
Member
I thought the same about Stephen's langs character.
I like on the 3rd, he is now looking like a possible mirror of sullys journey in the first (with verang). But as you mentioned. He only seems to mostly commit to being evil (or not, when it suits the plot or to highlight his complicated relationship)
JeTmAn81
Member
Can't agree about Quaritch as I've really been digging him in the sequels, especially this one, but Varang overall was a solid enough villain I found myself hoping she wouldn't be killed off so there would be more of her in sequels.
JimmyRustler
Member
Don't get me wrong, I liked him here better than in part 2 as well but the back and forth was a bit confusing. It seems to be obvious that he's gonna be a good guy at the end of the day but they keep dragging it out.
JeTmAn81
Member
I think the interplay between Quaritch and Varang helped them both. It's a potent mix, you might say. And yeah a redemption arc for him is obvious but it wouldn't take much to swerve and just have him end up the anti-Jake. Yeah he joins the Navi but as a despot, not a savior.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Just watched it. I did not care for neytiri in the first movie and generally don't find blue bitches attractive in the slightest but this new ash chick had something going on. Hard to describe it but shes so feisty and the way she moves my goodness. This has to be the best villain designs in a movie since immortal Joe. Just perfection.
Her scene with quarttrich was just brilliant. Great sexual tension throughout, funny and gripping and for whatever reason it was long. Something you typically don't see in movies. It almost felt like a TV show.
Action is spectacular as always but the story basically felt like way of the water part 2 which makes sense since this was one movie which they split into two but i would've liked to have seen the final battle take place elsewhere.
Night time sequences were insane.
I was late to the movie so missed the odyssey five minute prologue and it was basically the trogan horse scene shot with the intensity Nolan has mastered by now. Pulse pounding soundtrack. Almost no dialogue. Just visual storytelling at its peak. And yes this is based on me walking in the last 15 or 30 seconds. Really cool to see James Cameron and Nolan both attempt to do the same thing but in very different ways. Cameron is all about cg and insane stunts. Nolan is like no thanks cg, but is trying to shoot scenes like an old school filmmaker focusing mostly building up tension before unleashing the spectacle leaving you at the edge of your seat in awe of the audio visual experience only a few directors can master.
I like both styles of action filmmaking. James Cameron is still the king of the world but Nolan is doing his own thing.
Her scene with quarttrich was just brilliant. Great sexual tension throughout, funny and gripping and for whatever reason it was long. Something you typically don't see in movies. It almost felt like a TV show.
Action is spectacular as always but the story basically felt like way of the water part 2 which makes sense since this was one movie which they split into two but i would've liked to have seen the final battle take place elsewhere.
Night time sequences were insane.
I was late to the movie so missed the odyssey five minute prologue and it was basically the trogan horse scene shot with the intensity Nolan has mastered by now. Pulse pounding soundtrack. Almost no dialogue. Just visual storytelling at its peak. And yes this is based on me walking in the last 15 or 30 seconds. Really cool to see James Cameron and Nolan both attempt to do the same thing but in very different ways. Cameron is all about cg and insane stunts. Nolan is like no thanks cg, but is trying to shoot scenes like an old school filmmaker focusing mostly building up tension before unleashing the spectacle leaving you at the edge of your seat in awe of the audio visual experience only a few directors can master.
I like both styles of action filmmaking. James Cameron is still the king of the world but Nolan is doing his own thing.
I enjoyed it as a theater experience quite a bit, but had a solid hour long list of issues with the fundamentals to talk about afterwards.
Rather than get into all that right now, I'll mainly say that Quarritch going Cortes mode was by far the highlight. Him and his native GF stole the spotlight but were sadly quite underutilized in favor of more water people and whale and family drama. Cameron would've benefitted from an editor. The wait between films is comically long to be rehashing story beats from the previous entry.
Rather than get into all that right now, I'll mainly say that Quarritch going Cortes mode was by far the highlight. Him and his native GF stole the spotlight but were sadly quite underutilized in favor of more water people and whale and family drama. Cameron would've benefitted from an editor. The wait between films is comically long to be rehashing story beats from the previous entry.
JimmyRustler
Member
I usually like the drinkers' videos but this one was surprisingly bad. He just seems to be shitting on the movie for the sake of it. Like, they do say why Ash-Lady went bad and also it is already mentioned in part 2 why humans suddenly want to colonize Pandora instead of just mining it.
A lot of people (drinker included) take it too personally that these movies are this successful...
SirKicksalot
Member
There are no vibration patterns when the tulkun speak in the second movie, right? The freezing water illusion is awesome.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Saw it last night. I agree with most people's takes here as I had the same one. It almost feels like a remake of part 2 because the story is so oddly similar. That was a let down.
Other than that, its just incredible. Looks like a movie from 50 years in the future. Just totally insane shots throughout. There is too much downtime, but still a ton of great individual scenes. Nayteri is still a compete badass. It was cool seeing Jake's kid finally provide backup at the end and do it well. He had a long and slow arc but developed well. Quarrich steals every scene he's in like he has the entire trilogy. Fire chick was awesome. A little one note but seriously incredible. Jake is just the classic protagonist but it works. Its cool to see how much he endures and still never gives up.
I'll go a 2nd time like I always do for these but wish there was a little better pacing and less retreading and downtime.
Other than that, its just incredible. Looks like a movie from 50 years in the future. Just totally insane shots throughout. There is too much downtime, but still a ton of great individual scenes. Nayteri is still a compete badass. It was cool seeing Jake's kid finally provide backup at the end and do it well. He had a long and slow arc but developed well. Quarrich steals every scene he's in like he has the entire trilogy. Fire chick was awesome. A little one note but seriously incredible. Jake is just the classic protagonist but it works. Its cool to see how much he endures and still never gives up.
I'll go a 2nd time like I always do for these but wish there was a little better pacing and less retreading and downtime.
JimmyRustler
Member
I think we gotta give Cameron a bit slack for the plot here. We all know he can do much better but with a project of this scope I don't think there is much room for risk. Also you have to keep in mind that we got two more movies coming - and those have to keep getting bigger/better/more epic. I mean, there are only so many set pieces that are more epic than the whole of Pandora nature going against the invaders… and whatever they cooked up im that regard they're gonna leave it for the finale.
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I read somewhere that the plot of 4 is earth forces trying literal climate change/aliens style atmospheric terraforming and Jake needs sand cat people to fight them.
So basically rinse repeat yet again.
What really bugged me is if Netyri can just plug in and talk to a fully realized version of her dead son (and father), then she should be addicted to that or something. Or the na'vi at the very least should have a very different understanding of death since they have a literal heaven awaiting them. Human theologians and philosophers should be stampeding in to understand this system and export it to earth.
The humans have a fully realized consciousness download system as well, so could human tech download eywa stored cat people and basically bring them (cue evanescence) BAAAAACK TO LIFFFFE?
Or the humans could still least bring in dead humans, downloaded, and put them in to avatar hybrid bodes, and colonize Pandora that way.
Sooooo many cool applications of just these concepts, yet we have 3 films that almost entirely ignore it aside from the last 5 min of each film.
Hopefully cat jesus, errr, I mean cat girl kalli, can get eywas powers in motion.
I was kinda hoping that the purpose of Kallis parthenogenic birth was ewya realizing that she/it was too remote and so she hatched a mobile interface control to be able to respond faster. The ash people would be the reason for this, their pleas were ignored because ewya is just too busy or whatever, so kalli is the response.
Yep, lots of potential for nature-cyberpunk, still mostly unrealized.
JimmyRustler
Member
Cameron said way back when they started making the sequels that each one will be more or less self-contained without a cliffhanger. But I agree... A bit strange that we haven't seen Earth yet. Also, I do remember him saying that the plot will eventually lead to other planets.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
I believe cameron said something along the lines that 5 would take place on earth somehow.
SirKicksalot
Member
Earth is shown in the extended Avatar
The Way of Water's ending was heartbreaking because the backup was so imperfect. Now I've been confused for days.
I don't understand the difference between Avatar 2 and 3 Eywa backups. In 2, Neteyam and Grace are echoes of the persons but in 3 they're all self-aware and shit and the first movie dudes already know of Spider.
The Way of Water's ending was heartbreaking because the backup was so imperfect. Now I've been confused for days.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Apparently the script for the fourth movie is insane. Studio refused to give notes on the script replying with only a Holy Shit.
Honestly they should've just shot that as the third movie. No idea why this second movie had to be split into two. There just isn't that much here for two movies.
I've been insulting games all Gen calling $70 sequels DLCs for being too similar but this definitely felt like a DLC.
It would've been cool if ewa or all the other clans joined to rescue taruk maktu from being executed. I didn't buy neytri doing it all solo and especially dodging all those bullets. The final setpiece should've been set in that colony with humans getting fucking torched lol
Honestly they should've just shot that as the third movie. No idea why this second movie had to be split into two. There just isn't that much here for two movies.
I've been insulting games all Gen calling $70 sequels DLCs for being too similar but this definitely felt like a DLC.
It would've been cool if ewa or all the other clans joined to rescue taruk maktu from being executed. I didn't buy neytri doing it all solo and especially dodging all those bullets. The final setpiece should've been set in that colony with humans getting fucking torched lol
falconhoof
Member
Cameron mentioned that he took a big risk by spending 10 minutes outside of the perspective of the protagonists to develop Quaritch x Varang.
This is fascinating to me because that means he felt like it was, what, potentially taking away from 10 more minutes of talking to whales? Quaritch x Varang made the movie.
I guess it speaks to how conscious he is to deliver a broad, safe commercial product. Understandable given the money on the line and the livelihoods of his team, but you can't let it become creatively stifling.
This is fascinating to me because that means he felt like it was, what, potentially taking away from 10 more minutes of talking to whales? Quaritch x Varang made the movie.
I guess it speaks to how conscious he is to deliver a broad, safe commercial product. Understandable given the money on the line and the livelihoods of his team, but you can't let it become creatively stifling.
JimmyRustler
Member
These new movie probably cost well over a billion dollars to make. It's impossible not to be creatively stifling to some degree, even when you are Cameron. After all, there are no safe bets any more. See what happened to Harry Potter and Star Wars…
Represent.
Represent(ative) of bad opinions
Movie was great.. But way too safe for my liking. .Its beautiful as fuck, and I enjoyed it thoroghly, I just want... more.
He has made the same film 3 times now. And this final set piece wasn't as spectacular as it should have been. The 1st movie still has the best final battle. In the 4th one they HAVE TO switch things up.
Bring the Avatars to Earth. Let me see what Earth is like in this timeline.
He has made the same film 3 times now. And this final set piece wasn't as spectacular as it should have been. The 1st movie still has the best final battle. In the 4th one they HAVE TO switch things up.
Bring the Avatars to Earth. Let me see what Earth is like in this timeline.
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PaddyOCanager
Member
Saw it today. It's much better than Part 2.
The Fire Lady is the coolest character in the entire series so far.
The Fire Lady is the coolest character in the entire series so far.
ChuckeRearmed
Member
Avatar: Dumpster and Trash
pel1300
Member
I read Sam Worthington was living in his Toyota Corolla before getting his role in the first Avatar. He has since made a lot from profit sharing revenues for the Avatar franchise.
Good thing for him, because other than that and Terminator Salvation, I don't remember him from anything else.
Good thing for him, because other than that and Terminator Salvation, I don't remember him from anything else.
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Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
I really want to see this on my new monitor. Purely for the visual spectacle, but I am open to the story, too.
I think, I first saw him in something else besides Clash of the Titans, but I cannot remember.
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JimmyRustler
Member
IIRC that was his story before he got into Hollywood, not before Avatar. He di some stuff before this gig.
Going to my 2nd viewing tomorrow. Ticket for the 3rd is also bought already a week later. Can't wait.
SirKicksalot
Member
Black Ops 1 and 2!
I liked him in Hacksaw Ridge.
Spyxos
Member
Surprisingly, I still hadn't gone in. A few days ago, I went to the cinema to see a film that lasted almost 2 hours and 30 minutes. And as I sat there, I thought about Avatar, which runs for over 3 hours.
I just can't imagine spending three hours going through the same story for the third time.
I just can't imagine spending three hours going through the same story for the third time.
cormack12
Gold Member
Just back. Holy shit, that was an hour longer than it needed to be. The 3D was really impressive but I haven't been a 3D viewing for years so this may be par for the course.
Oona Chaplin sizzled as tbe woman enemy. So much so I got distracted several times and ended up wondering if they have the same style of asshole as a cat.
It did feel sameish though. I really hope they change it up in Avatar 4. Like I'm pretty sure you could take 5s clips from the end and it would be difficult to pick out which film it was.
Oona Chaplin sizzled as tbe woman enemy. So much so I got distracted several times and ended up wondering if they have the same style of asshole as a cat.
It did feel sameish though. I really hope they change it up in Avatar 4. Like I'm pretty sure you could take 5s clips from the end and it would be difficult to pick out which film it was.
Tiago Rodrigues
Member
lol, James Cameron always wins, it's insane.
Didn't expect it to beat the second Avatar movie's second weekend though. That's crazy.
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ZehDon
Member
Saw it again yesterday and I think it's a more re-watchable film than the second one and on par with the first film overall. As I said previously, if they'd been honest and compacted two and three into one three hour movie, cutting all of the unnecessary side characters and re-hashing, that one movie would've been better than the original film. But, at least Fire and Ash manages to match it. Quaritch and Vrang are easily the highlight of the movie, but on a second viewing, the film holds your attention the whole way. Lots of stuff to enjoy, lots of good scenes. "I hate their little pink hands" is how I feel when I see un-supervised children pawing stuff in stores.
With The Way of Water, you're really there for the scenery more than anything else - the character stuff is fine, but it's protracted and doesn't really pay off by the credits. The action is still top tier, but the middle stretch of that film is long and it feels it. With Fire and Ash, the unnecessarily long setup is already done, and we're off to the races from the start. It's just that much more interesting from start to finish. The trade off is a lot less focus on the scenery, but what's there is no less jaw dropping and still incredible to experience. I can see myself going back to Fire and Ash about as often as I do the OG at home. The Way of Water, though, I'm not sure on. I'll need to watch it again to see where it stacks up, but off the cuff it's the weakest of the three.
With The Way of Water, you're really there for the scenery more than anything else - the character stuff is fine, but it's protracted and doesn't really pay off by the credits. The action is still top tier, but the middle stretch of that film is long and it feels it. With Fire and Ash, the unnecessarily long setup is already done, and we're off to the races from the start. It's just that much more interesting from start to finish. The trade off is a lot less focus on the scenery, but what's there is no less jaw dropping and still incredible to experience. I can see myself going back to Fire and Ash about as often as I do the OG at home. The Way of Water, though, I'm not sure on. I'll need to watch it again to see where it stacks up, but off the cuff it's the weakest of the three.
First rule of Hollywood: never bet against James Cameron.
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NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Biggest Trails Stan
Do they go to Earth? If they do, what does it look like and is it as visually amazing as the CGI of Pandora?
Nope. Basically the same scenario as Avatar 2, but with a Comanche-style na'vi tribe in the mix.
SirKicksalot
Member
Avatar is successful because it's long.
For a reminder of what happens when you try to fit this much world building in a two hours container, rewatch John Carter. Charming movie, sure, but the storytelling is horrendous and the exposition is Kryptonite for normies. Zodanga, Barsoom, Jasoon, Issus, ninth ray, therns, tharks, warhoon - to the average person, this might as well be the ramblings of Charles Manson.
For a reminder of what happens when you try to fit this much world building in a two hours container, rewatch John Carter. Charming movie, sure, but the storytelling is horrendous and the exposition is Kryptonite for normies. Zodanga, Barsoom, Jasoon, Issus, ninth ray, therns, tharks, warhoon - to the average person, this might as well be the ramblings of Charles Manson.
DreamcastSkies
Gold Member
I was invited to see this with some friends tomorrow. I haven't seen any of the others.
Rat Rage
Member
I've seen it, liked it, and it's spectacular to see it in the cinema. Definitely a movie worth going to the cinema for. There's also quite a few things I could criticize, but overall it was good. One thing I have to say, though. Eventhough the movie was pretty long (which is ok), strangely enough it did not spend enough time for world building. Certain characters just appeard, certain things just appeared, and strangely enough the main villians tribe (the ash tribe) didn't get much backstory. The movie is called Avatar: Fire and Ash - yet I've seen way more water.
It kind of felt like the whole "The Way of the Water" arc was supposed to be 3 movies instead of 2, like they had too much material and had to put everything into 2 movies and ran out of space (runtime).
Still, it's a great cinematic experience.
It kind of felt like the whole "The Way of the Water" arc was supposed to be 3 movies instead of 2, like they had too much material and had to put everything into 2 movies and ran out of space (runtime).
Still, it's a great cinematic experience.
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MaestroMike
Gold Member
Shubh_C63
Member
Felt this was definitely better than the Way of Water. An additional antagonist really made the movie for me, the red chick is hot af.
It was weird seeing Whales talking in correct grammer lol, should have been in phrases. The red tribe should have been more pivotal to the ending, the Mother nature helping with things so directly doesn't fit right with me.
It was weird seeing Whales talking in correct grammer lol, should have been in phrases. The red tribe should have been more pivotal to the ending, the Mother nature helping with things so directly doesn't fit right with me.