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[ProtoByte]

Yeah the problem is that whoever fills the power vacuum is likely to be just as corrupt as Maduro. Regime changes never seem to go well and you would be crazy to send in civilians to oversee oil production without a military presence and I don't think we have any plan to do that - plus that also never seems to go well.
This was an amazing military operation but I'm not confident it will go any better than Iraq in the long term.

Regime change happens all throughout history. I'm increasingly unconvinced that it has a blanket bad record even in US foreign policy, given the alternatives.

This case might not turn out all sunshine and rainbows immediately, but it makes enough sense. Maduro was in bed with the Russia, China and Iran. It was an affront to allow his regime to stand for so long so close by. The last thing anyone sensible wants is even more longstanding entrenchment of those 3 in South America.

The resource reserves don't hurt either.

 

[E-Cat]

Like 100% of the fentanyl coming to the US comes from Mexican cartels, not Venezuela. Jfc

Drugs is to this as WMDs was to the Iraq war. Except the oil extraction motive is way more blatant

 

[GermanZepp]

Oh! The famous American freedom trademark. Democracy a gogo. I wonder if usa would care a rat ass if there was no oil y those lands. What a Clown world.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

 

[E-Cat]

A few months ago, I was working with a guy from Venezuela. He had immigrated due to Maduro's regime. The poverty, the persecution he caused.
When I asked him about the chance of a popular uprising, he just said it would not happen, because the army protects Maduro and his regime.
Because of that, he was hoping for a US invasion that would force a regime change. I guess he got what he wanted.

Still, the problem is that a guy like Trump never thinks about doing the right thing for people.
This invasion is clearly to take control of Venezuelan oil.
So chances are that the Venezuelan people will continue to suffer, under a new management.

Hope your friend doesn't get deported to CECOT

 

[Topher]

Like 100% of the fentanyl coming to the US comes from Mexican cartels, not Venezuela. Jfc

Drugs is to this as WMD was for the Iraq war. Except the oil extraction motive is way more blatant

Cocaine is the primary drug that comes out of Venezuela, not fentanyl. But I'd say the Russian/Chinese influence in the region as well as the confiscation of the oil industry by Chavez are the primary motivators in wanting the regime removed.

Oh! The famous American freedom trademark. Democracy a gogo. I wonder if usa would care a rat ass if there was no oil y those lands. What a Clown world.

Venezuelans seem to be happy with their new found freedom. That's clown world?

 

[Superposition]

 

[E-Cat]

Cocaine is the primary drug that comes out of Venezuela, not fentanyl. But I'd say the Russian/Chinese influence in the region as well as the confiscation of the oil industry by Chavez are the primary motivators in wanting the regime removed

Yes, but 90% of cocaine comes from Colombia. Venezuela is in the single digits, a very small player.

Agree w/ the latter reasons

 

[winjer]

Hope your friend doesn't get deported to CECOT

I'm not in the USA.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

Venezuela vice president Rodriguez in Russia, four sources say

The rats are already jumping ship...

Apparently this is untrue. I just saw on CNN they said that report was false, she gave an address on the state run television calling for Maduro's release, and a couple of Maduro's higher ups were with her. I'll see if I can find a good source for it

 

[Ozzie666]

Dr. Disrespect got old.

 

[delirium trigger]

You'd think any country in the world would do their best to get out of sanctions. It's crazy when I'd hear stories from friends they visit Cuba for vacation and the people working there are so broke, if you bring them old t-shirts or dump off an old clock radio to them as a tip they go ape shit happy being the equivalent of a human Goodwill donation box. Then you get all the free food and drinks you want rest of the day. Crazy shit. But thats what it's like there.

But it goes to show how sketchy governments will do anything to stay in power and let their people and economy hit the shitter.

Just remember that certain politicians and media sites heaped praise on Fidel Castro when he died.

We might, just maybe, have a communist problem in the west.

 

[E-Cat]

I'm not in the USA.

Gotcha

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Cocaine is the primary drug that comes out of Venezuela, not fentanyl. But I'd say the Russian/Chinese influence in the region as well as the confiscation of the oil industry by Chavez are the primary motivators in wanting the regime removed.

Yeah, I read that as well and realized he got the specific drug wrong. Doesn't in any way negate the rest of that post

Venezuelans seem to be happy with their new found freedom. That's clown world?

Interesting to see that Bloomberg "journalist" trying their best to push their agenda and the actual Venezuelan pushing back against it

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

 

[Atrus]

This saves Guyana from being attacked and further destabilizes Cuba, which has been subsidized by Venezuela. There's already some element of a democratic process that can be revived once the regime stalwarts are wiped out.

I was just reading on Bloomberg how China slammed this as a hegemonic act and of course it is. You either live in a democratic hegemony that can defend its interests or you can live in authoritarian ones like Russia, China, and Iran who spread authoritarian structures and parasitize nations.

 

[Unknown?]

No man. Trump very clearly said this was about oil.

And what did those who actually run our country say? I'm sure they will want to cease control of their finances with a globally controlled financier central bank.

Just remember that certain politicians and media sites heaped praise on Fidel Castro when he died.

We might, just maybe, have a communist problem in the west.

We do have a socialist and communist problem here in the west. In the words of Ludwig Von Mises, "Socialism dies when reason prevails."

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

 

[thefool]

I had friends who had to eat dogs.

 

[Topher]

Yeah, I read that as well and realized he got the specific drug wrong. Doesn't in any way negate the rest of that post



Interesting to see that Bloomberg "journalist" trying their best to push their agenda and the actual Venezuelan pushing back against it

She cut through all the bullshit, didn't she?

 

[GudOlRub]

And what did those who actually run our country say? I'm sure they will want to cease control of their finances with a globally controlled financier central bank.



We do have a socialist and communist problem here in the west. In the words of Ludwig Von Mises, "Socialism dies when reason prevails."

I don't know man... I'm pretty happy paying taxes that subsidize a socialized healthcare system in my country. Full on communism I would not be fond of though.
Not everything is so white or black.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This is more or less exactly what you could have expected. Note that the US doesn't even recognize Maduro as the President of Venezuela and hasn't since the 2024 election

It's strange how they can get all these people with printed signs and banners all gathered together at a moment's notice, that doesn't feel at all completely fake

Not a single actual Venezuelan in that protest group, because real Venezuelans worldwide are busy celebrating like they won 5 World Cups at once

 

[E-Cat]

Yeah, I read that as well and realized he got the specific drug wrong. Doesn't in any way negate the rest of that post



Interesting to see that Bloomberg "journalist" trying their best to push their agenda and the actual Venezuelan pushing back against it

She seems to be smoking some strong hopium regarding instating the democratically elected leader. Hope it happens, but skeptical

 

[Unknown?]

I don't know man... I'm pretty happy paying taxes that subsidize a socialized healthcare system in my country. Full on communism I would not be fond of though.
Not everything is so white or black.

That's socialized but does not mean you have a socialist country. The USA has socialized programs too: mail, schools, etc, doesn't make it socialist. Not all countries that have socialized healthcare have good healthcare either. I know that it is particularly bad in Canada but that's besides the point. Ludwig was spot on in his assessment.

 

[Lord Panda]

Someone needs to whisper in Donnie's ear that Putin is also an oppressive dictator who bankrolls all kinds of subversive bullshit inside the US, and just happens to sit on vast oil reserves that look awfully in need of McFreedom.

 

[Rentahamster]

Citizens of Venezuela are definitely feeling more peaceful after this move.

I think the outcome of this will depend heavily on the kind of deal the Trump administration does with the Venezuelan military.
They seem willing enough to have the regime change since they did not really put up a fight. But if now the US begins exploiting all the oil resources and don't give anything to the military in return I can see tensions rising and perhaps ending up in yet again another guerrilla warfare situation 9.0 electric boogaloo.

Unless the US manage to completely dismantle the regime's military and their influence over Venezuela but that doesn't seem to be the case yet.

The propaganda generated by the victor in the aftermath of any successful military operation is going to appear rosy and optimistic. It very well may be the case that this is going to be a net positive in terms of peace and prosperity for Venezuela and the world. However, looking back on the last 50 years of Americans ousting dictators, American-lead regime change hasn't had a great success rate in the long term. My entire life has consisted of "good intentioned" world police military offensive operations that enrich the military industrial complex at the expense of regular people. I can't see how this is going to be any different in the long term due to the monetary incentives involved for the benefiting parties.

United States involvement in regime change - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Furthermore, more American military intervention into foreign lands and increasing the likelihood of more forever wars was exactly the kind of thing many Trump voters as well as Tulsi Gabbard didn't want. It appears to be antithetical to the promised messaging.

 

[Topher]

This is more or less exactly what you could have expected. Note that the US doesn't even recognize Maduro as the President of Venezuela and hasn't since the 2024 election

It's strange how they can get all these people with printed signs and banners all gathered together at a moment's notice, that doesn't feel at all completely fake

Not a single actual Venezuelan in that protest group, because real Venezuelans worldwide are busy celebrating like they won 5 World Cups at once

Soviet Union flag at the front of the crowd was all I needed to see.

 

[Toons]

What's the alternative, Cuba 2.0?

Theres actually a ton of alternatives aside form a hostile takeover of another country from Mr. "No new wars" without congress approval that were options. Like... getting congress approval for bare minimum starters.

 

[E-Cat]

Furthermore, more American military intervention into foreign lands and increasing the likelihood of more forever wars was exactly the kind of thing many Trump voters as well as Tulsi Gabbard didn't want. It appears to be antithetical to the promised messaging.

Thankfully, they aren't sticklers for the whole consistency of purpose thing

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

This is more or less exactly what you could have expected. Note that the US doesn't even recognize Maduro as the President of Venezuela and hasn't since the 2024 election

It's strange how they can get all these people with printed signs and banners all gathered together at a moment's notice, that doesn't feel at all completely fake

Not a single actual Venezuelan in that protest group, because real Venezuelans worldwide are busy celebrating like they won 5 World Cups at once

And the only one shocked was kaya

 

[GudOlRub]

That's socialized but does not mean you have a socialist country. The USA has socialized programs too: mail, schools, etc, doesn't make it socialist. Not all countries that have socialized healthcare have good healthcare either. I know that it is particularly bad in Canada but that's besides the point. Ludwig was spot on in his assessment.

You're equating Socialism to Communism, they are not the same thing. Socialism literally involves a mixed system where both state and private ownership work in tandem.
Technically I do have a socialist country, a social democracy, it's just that the word Socialism has been poisoned by absolute buffoons.

I'm not saying that Socialism doesn't have its problems either but watching common folk wanting the idea to be erased from the face of the earth is baffling.

 

[Toons]

Like 100% of the fentanyl coming to the US comes from Mexican cartels, not Venezuela. Jfc

Drugs is to this as WMD was for the Iraq war. Except the oil extraction motive is way more blatant

Its amazing how people are trying to downplay this fact

 

[E-Cat]

You're equating Socialism to Communism, they are not the same thing. Socialism literally involves a mixed system where both state and private ownership work in tandem.
Technically I do have a socialist country, a social democracy, it's just that the word Socialism has been poisoned by absolute buffoons.

I'm not saying that Socialism doesn't have its problems either but watching common folk wanting the idea to be erased from the face of the earth is baffling.

The whole issue of still having to argue about definitions is dumb af, semantics preventing people from discussing actual policy. It's toddler-level discourse. Like, I'm dumbfounded it hasn't evolved past this

 

[KimDongHwan]

You're equating Socialism to Communism, they are not the same thing. Socialism literally involves a mixed system where both state and private ownership work in tandem.
Technically I do have a socialist country, a social democracy, it's just that the word Socialism has been poisoned by absolute buffoons.

I'm not saying that Socialism doesn't have its problems either but watching common folk wanting the idea to be erased from the face of the earth is baffling.

I am from a socialist country and I would love for it to disappear, they play by the classic "the people needs us to protect them against the evil corporations" when in reality they just take their cut from every transaction of the free world and provide some sprinkles of "benefits" to the people to make them defend them. Basically one of the worst and ineffective modes of charity.

I might be wrong of course but that's how I see it in my country at least

 

[Brazen]

Like 100% of the fentanyl coming to the US comes from Mexican cartels, not Venezuela. Jfc

Drugs is to this as WMDs was to the Iraq war. Except the oil extraction motive is way more blatant

Except the Iraq war resulted in thousands of our service men being maimed/killed for nearly a decade.

It can be about Oil, but it can also be about destabilizing China/Russia's influence, removing a well-known dictator, and yes going after cartels in Venezuela.

It's amazing the framing is all they have left, as long as they omit some details...

 

[EN250]

Furthermore, more American military intervention into foreign lands and increasing the likelihood of more forever wars was exactly the kind of thing many Trump voters as well as Tulsi Gabbard didn't want. It appears to be antithetical to the promised messaging.

The pendulum is swinging right hard in LATAM, there are talks about creating a right-block to counteract against the remains of the Sao Paulo Forum, this way there won't be any animosity against USA as they all share the same viewpoints

 

[coinhook]

Quite the opposite. This is one of the most efficient military operations ever.
Imagine if we could have captured Saddam, on the first day of the Gulf war? Or capturing Hitler on the 1st of September in 1939.

actually this reminds of Iran coup in 1953 where Teddy Roosevelt's grandson spend only 1 million dollars cia money to stage riots from both sides and destabilise the country.

this was the most profitable coup ever though in hindsight it led to the Islamic Revolution

 

[LordCBH]

 

[E-Cat]

Except the Iraq war resulted in thousands of our service men being maimed/killed for nearly a decade.

It can be about Oil, but it can also be about destabilizing China/Russia's influence, removing a well-known dictator, and yes going after cartels in Venezuela.

It's amazing the framing is all they have left, as long as they omit some details...

Just like Russia's war of aggression on Ukraine, this "might makes right" blatant violation of international law sets a very dangerous precedent for future world order & conflicts.

What possible leg does the US have to stand on when China invades Taiwan? We are devolving...

And who tf is "they"? Don't speak about me as if I'm part of some ideological block, I thought that's how the leftists viewed the world.

 

[LordCBH]

The pendulum is swinging right hard in LATAM, there are talks about creating a right-block to counteract against the remains of the Sao Paulo Forum, this way there won't be any animosity against USA as they all share the same viewpoints

This is 100% why I'm in favor of this move.

 

[Brazen]

Just like Russia's war of aggression on Ukraine, this "might makes right" blatant violation of international law sets a very dangerous precedent for future world order & conflicts.

What possible leg does the US have to stand on when China invades Taiwan? We are devolving...

And who tf is "they"? Don't speak about me as if I'm part of some ideological block, I thought that's how the leftists viewed the world.

Are you comparing the US to Russia/China?
Do go on.
They as in the TDSers and those with an undemocratic mindset.
Trump was elected on "peace through strength" mentality.

 

[E-Cat]

Are you comparing the US to Russia/China?
Do go on.

What would be the distinction here? American exceptionalism, you guys can do whatever cause it's good by default?

 

[Unknown Soldier]

The pendulum is swinging right hard in LATAM, there are talks about creating a right-block to counteract against the remains of the Sao Paulo Forum, this way there won't be any animosity against USA as they all share the same viewpoints

To be completely fair to the South American nations, not a single one of them officially acknowledged Maduro as the winner of the 2024 election except Bolivia

Even Brazil, which is a staunch ally of Venezuela, stepped back from that one and said "Let's wait for the fully counted verified results" which somehow never materialized

Peru, Argentina, and Uruguay went so far as to recognize the opposition candidate Gonzalez as the winner. Javier Milei, the President of Argentina, called for Maduro to step down immediately

The Latin American nations as a whole have long been quite furious with the effects of the refugee crisis that Chavez and Maduro created for their countries and none of them except Bolivia still wanted Maduro around. Bolivia never accepted any refugees from Venezuela which made their acknowledgment of Maduro winning the election even more hilariously hypocritical in that context

 

[LordCBH]

Comparing the arrest of the dictator who stole power and absolutely treated his citizens like scum to the invasion of a nation with a duly elected leader (Ukraine). Smart.

 

[winjer]

actually this reminds of Iran coup in 1953 where Teddy Roosevelt's grandson spend only 1 million dollars cia money to stage riots from both sides and destabilise the country.

this was the most profitable coup ever though in hindsight it led to the Islamic Revolution

The Shad was supported by the USA. So much so that they even sold them the newest most advanced F14s.
The Iranian (de)revolution, was a left wing and islamist coup.

 

[Unknown?]

You're equating Socialism to Communism, they are not the same thing. Socialism literally involves a mixed system where both state and private ownership work in tandem.
Technically I do have a socialist country, a social democracy, it's just that the word Socialism has been poisoned by absolute buffoons.

I'm not saying that Socialism doesn't have its problems either but watching common folk wanting the idea to be erased from the face of the earth is baffling.

The state and private companies working together is corporatism(aka fascism). Socialism is the elimination of private ownership of the means of production and in eliminating private ownership of the means of production it makes rational economic calculation impossible. "The aim of Socialism [is] to transfer the means of production from private ownership to the ownership of organized society...." It's in the name, it literally means collectivism.

Although socialists often talk about members of the socialist community deciding how to make use of the means of production, often pointing to the socialist utopia as freeing workers for the bondage of wage labor, the only apparatus available to the socialist community to exert this kind of control is the State. The State must have total control over every aspect of production in a socialist commonwealth. Additionally, there is simply no way of socializing the means of production without forcibly taking from some to give to others and forcing some to work more than they would choose to work given the rewards.

 

[Brazen]

What would be the distinction here? American exceptionalism, you guys can do whatever cause it's good by default?

We democratically elected this individual, there's your "distinction."
The world is perfectly fine with us blowing the fuck out of pirates to protect their internation trade. But dictators are off the table when the opportunity arrives? yeah ok

 

[E-Cat]

They as in the TDSers and those with an undemocratic mindset.

I'm neither, I'm pro-Democracy and have a very lucid understanding of who Trump is. A torchbearer for democracy he is not...

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

 

[Brazen]

I'm neither, I'm pro-Democracy and have a very lucid understanding of who Trump is. A torchbearer for democracy he is not...

Well fortunately our election was decided by the American people, and not you.