Air India Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner crashes after takeoff to London Gatwick

One pilot said to the other "Why did you cut off?" and the other answered "I didn´t". Then they were trying to start the engines again and they almost managed to get one working on time. To me that conversation and behaviour doesn´t align with intentional suicide.
What did you want him to respond? "Muahahaha it was me!" when there was still a chance to recover the plane? It's even possible the pilot that asked "why did you cut the switch off?" was also the one that did it. What's strange about these pilot suicides, ie MH370, is we'll probably never know what really happened. Haunting
 
In the 30 seconds from take off until it crashed somehow, someone:-

Lifted the fuel pump switches, turned them off;
Engines got starved of fuel causing them to stop;
Had a conversation 'why did you do that?' 'Do what - I didn't do anything'
Moved the switches back to their on position;
Fuel went back to the engines;
Almost got power back to one engine;
Issued a mayday call at least 10 seconds long...

Fuck me, that's some going there.
 
There are plenty of other things a rogue pilot could do at the moment of takeoff, like throttle down the engines, raise the flaps, push the stick forward to abort at high speed, etc. The other guy would only have seconds to react and maybe even fight the person sitting next to him. If you can't trust the pilot, everyone is basically screwed.
Ya, if you made it more difficult, like requiring both pilots to flip the switches, that would lead to even more problems. This is why pilot mental health screenings are so important, but at the same time that also that leads to pilots hiding their mental health problems because admitting to very common things like anxiety or depression can lead to permanent grounding and ending their lively hood. Very complicated situation
 
this is why i hate traveling on airplanes. i have to use 2 factor authentication just to login to playstation, but pilots can just turn off fuel to the engine with a press of the button on their own, without the other guy's permission? at the very least it should be a two step process just so you dont accidently do it.
 
Going by the recording, we'll never truly know. It was either deliberate, an accident or sabotage from another source somehow messing with the switches.

Seems unlikely we'll ever be able to say it was 99% or 100% A, B or C. (unless they found a suicide note or other info via their investigations).
 
this is why i hate traveling on airplanes. i have to use 2 factor authentication just to login to playstation, but pilots can just turn off fuel to the engine with a press of the button on their own, without the other guy's permission? at the very least it should be a two step process just so you dont accidently do it.
Yeah, this new info has left me on edge about flying.
 
this is why i hate traveling on airplanes. i have to use 2 factor authentication just to login to playstation, but pilots can just turn off fuel to the engine with a press of the button on their own, without the other guy's permission? at the very least it should be a two step process just so you dont accidently do it.
It seems like it's pretty much impossible for it to be done accidentally. There's a picture of the switches in one of the articles linked on the previous page, and they have guard rails around them plus you have to physically pull them upwards before they can moved.
 
What did you want him to respond? "Muahahaha it was me!" when there was still a chance to recover the plane? It's even possible the pilot that asked "why did you cut the switch off?" was also the one that did it. What's strange about these pilot suicides, ie MH370, is we'll probably never know what really happened. Haunting
There was a chance to recover the plane if both pilots tried to recover it, and that´s what they were actively doing. If one of them wanted to crash it there were many things he could do to make sure it happens. For example, pointing the nose down right after take off. He wouldn´t even need to turn anything off. Just point the nose down and it´s done. No need to turn the engines off, pretend you didn´t do it, then try to save the situation even if you don´t want to save the plane... that makes no sense.
 
For those who know more about aviation. Is there any reason you would need to shut off fuel to the engines. Like some kind of emergency or anything? Other than powering down the craft at an airport.

Maybe it's something that should be taken away from the pilots via remote activation at airports.
 
For those who know more about aviation. Is there any reason you would need to shut off fuel to the engines. Like some kind of emergency or anything? Other than powering down the craft at an airport.

Maybe it's something that should be taken away from the pilots via remote activation at airports.
If the engine takes some sort of damage and catches on fire while in flight, it would be nice to be able to stop supplying fuel to the engine lol
 
For those who know more about aviation. Is there any reason you would need to shut off fuel to the engines. Like some kind of emergency or anything? Other than powering down the craft at an airport.

Maybe it's something that should be taken away from the pilots via remote activation at airports.

Engine fire ?
 
For those who know more about aviation. Is there any reason you would need to shut off fuel to the engines. Like some kind of emergency or anything? Other than powering down the craft at an airport.
It's in engine failure and engine fire memory items.
Maybe it's something that should be taken away from the pilots via remote activation at airports.
Im Not No Way GIF
 
this is why i hate traveling on airplanes. i have to use 2 factor authentication just to login to playstation, but pilots can just turn off fuel to the engine with a press of the button on their own, without the other guy's permission? at the very least it should be a two step process just so you dont accidently do it.
That's exactly the ideia.
I believe that fuel switch position is one of the first item on check-list for start the plane. So both pilots are sure of the position and you basically only switch it again at the end of a flight in normal conditions

Plus its in a secure position in the center console and isolated with at least 2 physical protection against a "pilot mistake".

cockpit-boeing-787-dreamliner-bnfdet.jpg


For those who know more about aviation. Is there any reason you would need to shut off fuel to the engines. Like some kind of emergency or anything? Other than powering down the craft at an airport.
Maybe it's something that should be taken away from the pilots via remote activation at airports.

Nope.
Engine fire, bird strike, basically any real problem on the engine and the pilots may need to cut the the fuel for a engine that consumes 2.5 tons of fuel per hour and spins at 2400 rpm at 35.000 ft.
 
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There was a chance to recover the plane if both pilots tried to recover it, and that´s what they were actively doing. If one of them wanted to crash it there were many things he could do to make sure it happens. For example, pointing the nose down right after take off. He wouldn´t even need to turn anything off. Just point the nose down and it´s done. No need to turn the engines off, pretend you didn´t do it, then try to save the situation even if you don´t want to save the plane... that makes no sense.
How do you know they tried to save the situation, other than one of the pilots flipping the switches when he noticed they had been switched off?

Pointing the nose down right after take off seems like a terrible idea and a good way to survive airplane crash. Also you don't think the other pilot would notice and make an attempt to physically stop him? your posts make no sense man

Flipping the switches and stalling the plane when it's that low is almost a guaranteed way to prevent a recovery, and it's probably not a coincidence that it happened to land into residential buildings
 
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I don't know if Blancolirio went that way of thought (probably). But Moover (787, F-16, F-18 pilot) brought up another interesting point, the 1 second difference is exactly the time it takes to flip both switches at the initial checklist.
And both the Captain and the FO were very experienced at the 787.

Everything is pointing to a deliberate act right now. The question is the "whys" and the investigation may not even get a clear answer on that.
If it was an 1,2 order on the switches, it was probably the captain. If it was 2,1 its was probably the FO. Another point is the FO probably had both hands full because he was the pilot flying.


Does the report specify which pilot said the "why you did that?"?
edit: Nope
 
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In the 30 seconds from take off until it crashed somehow, someone:-

Lifted the fuel pump switches, turned them off;
Engines got starved of fuel causing them to stop;
Had a conversation 'why did you do that?' 'Do what - I didn't do anything'
Moved the switches back to their on position;
Fuel went back to the engines;
Almost got power back to one engine;
Issued a mayday call at least 10 seconds long...

Fuck me, that's some going there.
Agreed. However pilots can act fast at critical phase of flight using memory items. Also a deliberate planned act takes a couple of seconds
 
How do you know they tried to save the situation, other than one of the pilots flipping the switches when he noticed they had been switched off?

Pointing the nose down right after take off seems like a terrible idea and a good way to survive airplane crash. Also you don't think the other pilot would notice and make an attempt to physically stop him? your posts make no sense man

Flipping the switches and stalling the plane when it's that low is almost a guaranteed way to prevent a recovery, and it's probably not a coincidence that it happened to land into residential buildings
Don´t know how is it more likely to survive a plane crash at full speed with the nose down than losing power and trying to glide as gently as possible into the ground.

Anyways, now I know there was 1 second between each engine cut off, so that also points to intentional crash. I still don´t get it. Somethig doesn´t add up.
 
Don´t know how is it more likely to survive a plane crash at full speed with the nose down than losing power and trying to glide as gently as possible into the ground.

Anyways, now I know there was 1 second between each engine cut off, so that also points to intentional crash. I still don´t get it. Somethig doesn´t add up.
If I remember correctly from the Air France crash into the Atlantic, the yoke (joystick) on Boeing planes are mechanically connected so if one pilot decided to pull up on the yoke to bring the nose down, the other pilot would know because his would go up as well.

This is not the case on Airbus planes, and the reason the Air France plane crashed is because one of the pilots did not realize the other pilot had mistakenly pulled the yoke down while the plane was stalled (you are supposed to point the nose down to get out of a stall) and it was too late for the plane to recover by the time he noticed. Haunting stuff
 
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There was a chance to recover the plane if both pilots tried to recover it, and that´s what they were actively doing. If one of them wanted to crash it there were many things he could do to make sure it happens. For example, pointing the nose down right after take off. He wouldn´t even need to turn anything off. Just point the nose down and it´s done. No need to turn the engines off, pretend you didn´t do it, then try to save the situation even if you don´t want to save the plane... that makes no sense.

Conscience is a very heavy burden. I believe that unless someone is inherently evil, people can immediately regret an action that causes harm, specially when it will cause harm to oneself. If the pilot intentionally flipped the switches, he might have regretted it and felt that reality is never like what you picture it in your mind.

The way those buttons are programmed, and how the black boxes record how they are activated, will indicate truly if this was an intentional action. If it is, then the investigation will take a turn into why they did it.

If the switches were malfunctioning, it will rain hell for Boeing. However, due to the political nature of this, who knows if they will actually tell if it was a malfunction in the first place.
 
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If I remember correctly from the Air France crash into the Atlantic, the yoke (joystick) on Boeing planes are mechanically connected so if one pilot decided to pull up on the yoke to bring the nose down, the other pilot would know because his would go up as well.

This is not the case on Airbus planes, and the reason the Air France plane crashed is because one of the pilots did not realize the other pilot had mistakenly pulled the yoke down while the plane was stalled (you are supposed to point the nose down to get out of a stall) and it was too late for the plane to recover by the time he noticed. Haunting stuff
Between this. The maniac who locked the door and whatever happened to this India flight. I wonder if AI might be better route. Huge trust issues but usually the flaws in machine are human made
 
Conscience is a very heavy burden. I believe that unless someone is inherently evil, people can immediately regret an action that causes harm, specially when it will cause harm to oneself. If the pilot intentionally flipped the switches, he might have regretted it and felt that reality is never like what you picture it in your mind.

The way those buttons are programmed, and how the black boxes record how they are activated, will indicate truly if this was an intentional action. If it is, then the investigation will take a turn into why they did it.

If the switches were malfunctioning, it will rain hell for Boeing. However, due to the political nature of this, who knows if they will actually tell if it was a malfunction in the first place.
They say one of the pilots was about to retire and was depressed. Also, there was 1 second between the cutoff of each engine, so it was apparently intentional.

 
this is why i hate traveling on airplanes. i have to use 2 factor authentication just to login to playstation, but pilots can just turn off fuel to the engine with a press of the button on their own, without the other guy's permission? at the very least it should be a two step process just so you dont accidently do it.

I agree in theory, but there are cases where one of them has to aleays hold the stick and cannot take their hands from it...
Maybe we should switch to 3 people in there at all times?
 
Article:
TELEMMGLPICT000432653949_17527339134380_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqniLs_ck1w-iIu15kYzVq2ar7XxpmvgbPzamPU2LIhkA.jpeg

Sumeet Sabharwal, the plane's captain (left), and Clive Kundar, the co-pilot had more than 9,000 hours of flying time between them

The captain of the crashed Air India jet likely cut off the fuel supply before it went down in Ahmedabad, US officials believe.

The first officer, who was flying the Boeing 787-9, questioned why the captain had moved switches to the cut-off position, according to a US assessment of the black box data.

The first officer reportedly expressed surprise and panic while the captain remained calm, the Wall Street Journal reported.

All but one of 242 people on board the Boeing 787 Dreamliner were killed when the aircraft plunged into a medical student hostel in a built-up suburb last month, less than a minute after take-off from Ahmedabad airport.

It follows a preliminary report released by Aircraft Accident Investigation Bureau's (AAIB) that found that switches controlling fuel flow to the jet's two engines were turned off, leading to a catastrophic loss of thrust at take-off.

According to the report, one of the pilots is heard asking the other why "did you cut off" the fuel supply in the recovered cockpit voice recording. The other pilot responded that he "didn't".

It was not previously clear who said what. However, sources in the US who have reviewed the cockpit voice recordings told the Wall Street Journal that it was the captain who was questioned about why he cut off fuel to engines.

The switches were moved in succession, one second apart, according to the report. Some 10 seconds later, the switches were turned back on. The report did not say whether the switches may have been turned off accidentally or deliberately.

Sumeet Sabharwal, the captain, and Clive Kundar, the co-pilot had more than 9,000 hours of flying time between them. On Sunday, The Telegraph revealed that Air India crash investigators are examining the medical records of Mr Sabharwal amid claims that he suffered from depression and mental health problems. Captain Sabharwal, 56, had been considering leaving the airline to look after his elderly father following the death of his mother in 2022.

In the moments before the disaster, Mr Sabharwal issued a mayday call. However, after the aircraft reached a maximum altitude of barely 400ft above the runway all contact was lost. The plane then fell towards the ground and exploded on impact.

Campbell Wison, the Air India chief executive, said in a staff memo that the report had "triggered a new round of speculation in the media". Mr Wilson said the report identified no cause nor made any recommendations and urged people to avoid drawing premature conclusions as investigation was far from over.

Indian media, however, reported that investigators were examining potential electrical and digital faults that could have triggered "uncommanded" actions. "The probe will ascertain the possibility of an 'uncommanded transition' of the fuel control switches to the cut-off mode seconds after the lift-off," an official aware of the investigation was reported to have said.

Just hours before take-off, a pilot flying the same aircraft from Delhi to Ahmedabad noted in the technical log a "stabiliser position transducer defect", the newspaper said. The stabiliser position transducer is a sensor that controls the up and down movement of the aircraft's nose, and transmits the data to flight control systems. The official said the malfunction was checked and the engineer did the troubleshooting. "The malfunction is a critical issue as it can trigger incorrect responses in flight control, including unintended fuel cut-off signal," the official was quoted as saying.

There had been at least two more similar incidents on the aircraft in the weeks before the crash, the newspaper said. One involved a false fuel system warning that flashed on the screen of the plane's control panel. Another was an electrical fault that led to the cancellation of a flight. The official added that the aircraft had previously experienced two major problems, including an emergency landing in 2015 due to a cabin air compressor issue.

The Federation of Indian Pilots has expressed dissatisfaction at pilot representatives being excluded from the investigation process, saying: "We also firmly object to the way in which the preliminary report has been interpreted and presented publicly." Captain C S Randhawa, the federation's president, said: "The report, as released, lacks comprehensive data and appears to rely selectively on paraphrased cockpit voice recordings to suggest pilot error and question the professional competence and integrity of the flight crew. "This approach is neither objective nor complete. Assigning blame before a thorough, transparent, and data-driven investigation is both premature and irresponsible."

The crash was the first fatal accident involving Boeing's Dreamliner. However, the airline had already suffered reputational damage after a string of safety and quality problems. The Dreamliner, which entered service in 2011, is popular among commercial airlines and is commonly used on international long-haul routes.
 
Captain Dan Gryder makes a compelling case for suicide


Yeah I think this pretty much nails it on the head. The guy asking "Why did you cut off? is most definitely the person that flipped the switches.

In no world are you asking the other pilot why they flipped the cut off switch, wait a significant amount of time, and flip the switches back on.

That's like if you're giving a blood transfusion, and your patient starts to show signs of a terrible allergic reaction. You don't wait a few seconds, ask the patient 'oh ur sure ur not feeling well?' 'What is ur blood type?', wait a more few seconds to allow more incompatible blood to be pushed into the patients blood stream, and THEN stop the transfusion. That shit is irrelevant at this point.

Also clearly the wheels were kept down to increase the drag deliberately

fucking maniac.
 
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Telegraph cant even get the type right 787-8.

Air India don't have any 9 variants.

You'd expect for stories like this with hard fact, they'd at least get the aircraft correct.
 
this is why i hate traveling on airplanes. i have to use 2 factor authentication just to login to playstation, but pilots can just turn off fuel to the engine with a press of the button on their own, without the other guy's permission? at the very least it should be a two step process just so you dont accidently do it.
FYI this would never happen with a FAA-certified (American) pilot, the FAA is extremely strict about mental health medical history for pilots and only permits certain medication in the case of mental issues.
 
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FYI this would never happen with a FAA-certified (American) pilot, the FAA is extremely strict about mental health medical history for pilots and only permits certain medication in the case of mental issues.

What if the pilot hides it completely?
 
Man I know this has been happening ever since social media took off but just reading comments from stay at home moms or drunks, pretending like they know anything about aviation, condeming news media how they are trying to blame the pilot because the company doesnt want to get in trouble. If anyone knew anything about aviation, at least if not more 70% of all accidents were pilot error especially during take-off and landing phases. Those are recorded FACTS. Id also want to say fully what I think about him being an Indian national but it will just get me banned.

If you ever spent long enough time working with them or reading their news, this is a place where husbands throw acid on their wife's face because she got into oxford university and the man felt like he will look like a bum compared to her. If this is truly suicide, its because like them, he wants to make the biggest deal about it so that everyone knows no matter the casualties. German Wings was a suicide too but that pilot was confirmed to be dealing with untreated mental problems and was never supposed to be flying in the first place due to poor medical examinations and ingoring obvious details for years. He failed plenty simulator training and even had prior notice from a doctor about his mental state but they just ignored it.

If confirmed 300% its suicide, burn in hell Sumeet Sabharwal for taking others lives for your own cause. P.S. pilots are awesome and human too but this shit I cant have sympathy for.
 
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Yeah I think this pretty much nails it on the head. The guy asking "Why did you cut off? is most definitely the person that flipped the switches.

In no world are you asking the other pilot why they flipped the cut off switch, wait a significant amount of time, and flip the switches back on.

That's like if you're giving a blood transfusion, and your patient starts to show signs of a terrible allergic reaction. You don't wait a few seconds, ask the patient 'oh ur sure ur not feeling well?' 'What is ur blood type?', wait a more few seconds to allow more incompatible blood to be pushed into the patients blood stream, and THEN stop the transfusion. That shit is irrelevant at this point.

Also clearly the wheels were kept down to increase the drag deliberately

fucking maniac.
It says the co-pilot was the one that questioned the Captain why he cut it off and that he calmly responded that he didn't. The Captain is the suicidal one.
 
Man I know this has been happening ever since social media took off but just reading comments from stay at home moms or drunks, pretending like they know anything about aviation, condeming news media how they are trying to blame the pilot because the company doesnt want to get in trouble. If anyone knew anything about aviation, at least if not more 70% of all accidents were pilot error especially during take-off and landing phases. Those are recorded FACTS. Id also want to say fully what I think about him being an Indian national but it will just get me banned.

If you ever spent long enough time working with them or reading their news, this is a place where husbands throw acid on their wife's face because she got into oxford university and the man felt like he will look like a bum compared to her
. If this is truly suicide, its because like them, he wants to make the biggest deal about it so that everyone knows no matter the casualties. German Wings was a suicide too but that pilot was confirmed to be dealing with untreated mental problems and was never supposed to be flying in the first place due to poor medical examinations and ingoring obvious details for years. He failed plenty simulator training and even had prior notice from a doctor about his mental state but they just ignored it.

If confirmed 300% its suicide, burn in hell Sumeet Sabharwal for taking others lives for your own cause. P.S. pilots are awesome and human too but this shit I cant have sympathy for.
Ah yes another racist on neogaf.
I love this place.
 
Man I know this has been happening ever since social media took off but just reading comments from stay at home moms or drunks, pretending like they know anything about aviation, condeming news media how they are trying to blame the pilot because the company doesnt want to get in trouble. If anyone knew anything about aviation, at least if not more 70% of all accidents were pilot error especially during take-off and landing phases. Those are recorded FACTS. Id also want to say fully what I think about him being an Indian national but it will just get me banned.

If you ever spent long enough time working with them or reading their news, this is a place where husbands throw acid on their wife's face because she got into oxford university and the man felt like he will look like a bum compared to her. If this is truly suicide, its because like them, he wants to make the biggest deal about it so that everyone knows no matter the casualties. German Wings was a suicide too but that pilot was confirmed to be dealing with untreated mental problems and was never supposed to be flying in the first place due to poor medical examinations and ingoring obvious details for years. He failed plenty simulator training and even had prior notice from a doctor about his mental state but they just ignored it.

If confirmed 300% its suicide, burn in hell Sumeet Sabharwal for taking others lives for your own cause. P.S. pilots are awesome and human too but this shit I cant have sympathy for.
bro ur post sounds completely unhinged and borderline schizophrenic. Talking about people not knowing what they are talking about, then posting the most ignorant shit--One pilot from india murders everyone on board because indians are the type to throw acid in your face?nonsense? This same thing just happened not long ago with mh370 and the German one
 
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Ah yes another racist on neogaf.
I love this place.
Ah yes, guy with zero international experience, knows nothing but call people racist for stating geographical facts.

12Goblins 12Goblins
I specifically made a connection with German wings and its not even close. GermanWings pilot had prior suicidal tendencies for years that somehow escaped the system. His license was revoked in 2008 for having a depression episode, 10 years before the crash. If you watched any documentary on this case you would know ever since childhood he had problems, nobody died and made him sad, dude was medically unfit for decades. This guy mom dies and he decideds let me just kill everyone along with me. He wasnt suffering from chronic depression for years. The two cases are not even close to being similar. If you are going to feel sorry for someone that killed 241 people due to his actions because he was "sad" then I have nothing more to speak to you about. Be a man and off yourself in your house, dont take innocent lives with you.

Also, how can you even put MH370 in the same basket when to this day we have no conclusive evidence of anything? Were you the investigator, are you an inside man that knows exactly what happened but dont want to let us know? Stop spreading TMZ rumors, nowhere has it been confirmed it was suicidal crash. MH370 is such a complicated deep rabbit hole we might never get to the bottom of. This is the current state of that case, AKA we dont know shit, just speculations:

"Some officials believe that the plane ran out of fuel, and one theory holds that the pilots tried to make an emergency landing at sea. Others suggest that one or both pilots lost control of the aircraft, that one was a rogue pilot, or that the plane was hijacked."
 
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We know of like half a dozen deliberate actions from the pilot that all point to a pilot-suicide theory. Most experts now agree this is most plausible theory. It's not a coincidence the wreckage has been so difficult to track -- the pilot took deliberate actions to make the plane disappear
 
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