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[meepmeep1985]

I went back and played some Prime 1 remastered after finishing Prime 4.

Yeah .... Prime 1 captures the essence of Metroid so much better. Again, I don't think game series have to stay the same. I think Tears of the Kingdom is an incredible Zelda entry, one of the best easily. And it's so different from where it all started. But Prime 4, while a decent action/adventure game (sorta) is just too simple for Metroid. Again, it's not that it's too different. It's that it doesn't require any brain power or thinking whatsoever.

Right at home with all the other switch exclusives then.

 

[Dr Bass]

Right at home with all the other switch exclusives then.

Uh no, but ok.

 

[DKPOWPOW]

Obviously I disagree, but even by your own admission, Prime 1 had 3 "somewhat sprawling" areas. Prime 4 had zero. I'll admit that the sprawling aspect is somewhat artificial and the game is mostly linear, however, it's still much more cleverly designed to mask that and make the exploration feel rewarding, atleast to many of us. The levels are just more intelligently designed. Even if you discount Tallon Overworld as simple and a hub, I'd argue it was a GOOD hub and served its purpose. There's really no comparison to the Desert. It's large just to make it feel expansive and there's practically nothing to actually do in it and it serves largely just as an excuse to ride the motorcycle. It would have been barely passable in a 20 year old game and I find it inexcusable now.

Not trying to come off aggressive and again I'm glad you liked it, just trying to give you some counter arguments.

Yeah, no I appreciate the discussion. It's why I posted my thoughts because I've been tired of seeing so many drive by hate posts without any thought put forth in them.

It's true in Beyond none of the areas are really sprawling. And they don't really attempt to create an illusion they are (besides the beautiful backgrounds in Ice Belt & Fury Green). But they are tightly designed, and areas like Ice Belt, Volt Forge, and Lava Pool change.

Which is something I really enjoyed. In Prime 1 one of the coolest parts was exploring the crashed Space Frigate. It felt like an actually mystery unfolding in front of your eyes. Besides that, there was snippets of environments changing like the Space Pirate base without power in Phendrana Drifts & the poison being removed in Chozo Ruins. But these were minor differences.

Volt Forge was absolutely awesome in how it changed. It might be my favorite area in the series since Sanctuary Fortress (best level ever made). I know some people aren't fond of combat taking the forefront, or the bike aspect. But I loved it all, the battles were intense. It helped I missed a couple Energy Tanks because it was challenging, fun & rewarding.

Ice Belt provided probably the creepiest experience I've seen in a Metroid game since the Dead Ship in Corruption. But it was loads better than that. It could have used more enemies, and the Grievers should have been more aggressive (which is why I look forward to my hard playthru). But the buildup and atmosphere was top tier.

And Lava Pools. This one surprised me and I think a lot of people might have missed this one if they did not go back after getting the Spark Shot.

The whole enemy line up changed, parts of the area was destroyed. The battles again, intense if you had missed some Energy Tanks or did not have the upgraded shots.

So while it was not sprawling like Echoes or Prime 1, the areas evolving and changing kept it exciting for me. It rewards backtracking, there are tons of upgrades. And many of them are hidden very cleverly.

I know Sol Desert is very divisive. You are correct, it is a very basic kind of hub. Despite that, I really enjoyed traveling across the desert at high speeds. The bike controls were so slick, smashing into crystals was oddly addicting, and stopping to look for hidden upgrades or shrines kept that Metroid feel.

It did feel though, as if there was supposed to be more. A nagging feeling while playing the game. I suspect/hope the rumor of it being developed in tandem with a sequel and or held back for Switch 2 so the release between entries isn't so far apart is oddly true. Still I beat it @ 23 hours 85% items 94% scans. Which is pretty good for a Prime game, I took my time for sure.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Prime 1 kinda tricked you into thinking areas were bigger by using tons of in-between corridors. When I revisited it a few years after release, I couldn't help noticing that most of the game is a succession of room - corridor - room - corridor. Phendrana is especially egregious with this, with short U-shaped corridors containing annoying enemies and nothing else. This probably helped with loading, and most corridors being U-shaped also made the map look more convoluted than it really was.

Still, all the games previous to 4 used verticality, quite literally, on a completely different dimension. Prime 1 already had so many vertical rooms, and every single one of them had so much to do in it. Prime 4 is severely lacking on that front. I can mention that vertical room in the fire area with the flying bots, and… that's pretty much it. The mines never exploit the verticality of the whole map to any significant degree.

Prime 4 is the quintessential modern game that "renovates" old classics by stripping them of anything that the new generations found annoying in the old games.
Ya know, getting to the top of that high shaft and having to climb it all again from ground level because an enemy hit you on the top sucks - let's just not make vertical rooms at all, shall we?
Ya know, having to comb the whole map to look for missing collectibles sucks - let's put in some bots that will pinpoint every item you haven't picked up with utmost accuracy, shall we?
How the same people then fill their Assassin's Creed and whatnot games to the brim with a crapton of redundant, useless, uninteresting stuff (like, you know, the green crystals collectathon) and enjoy every second of it is anyone's guess, but oh well.

One could also argue that a lot of the old puzzles, especially Morph Ball puzzles, were needlessly convoluted and that they were clearly so just for the sake of it. And you know what, they wouldn't even be completely wrong. Still, those puzzles were a nice change of pace, and a good challenge. As braindead as the new ones, if we must, but still requiring some skill and patience.

MP4 had somewhat good intentions, but it took things too far in both directions. It stripped too much of what worked (even if it was annoying sometimes), and added too little. I still enjoyed the game because the gameplay loop still works like a charm. I just enjoy moving around, double jumping, aiming with motion controls, rolling around in Morph Ball mode, switching beams and unloading super missiles. That's why I don't think it's a disaster, just clearly inferior to what came before.

 

[Robb]

That's why I don't think it's a disaster, just clearly inferior to what came before.

I'm still left baffled that we got a Metroid Prime sequel that completely got rid of the visors as a gameplay mechanic.

It's true in Beyond none of the areas are really sprawling. And they don't really attempt to create an illusion they are (besides the beautiful backgrounds in Ice Belt & Fury Green). But they are tightly designed, and areas like Ice Belt, Volt Forge, and Lava Pool change.

I enjoyed most of them. And I have to say that I really enjoyed the attempted visual connectivity (or whatever you want to call it). Like how you can see a pipeline going all the way to Volt Forge as well as the storm brewing in the distance when you're in the desert, for example. That stuff ads a lot imo, and you can tell some of the people who worked on DKC are here because those games were very much the same in that aspect.

 

[DKPOWPOW]

I'm still left baffled that we got a Metroid Prime sequel that completely got rid of the visors as a gameplay mechanic.


I enjoyed most of them. And I have to say that I really enjoyed the attempted visual connectivity (or whatever you want to call it). Like how you can see a pipeline going all the way to Volt Forge as well as the storm brewing in the distance when you're in the desert, for example. That stuff ads a lot imo, and you can tell some of the people who worked on DKC are here because those games were very much the same in that aspect.

I mean, as far as visors go what more could they do? Xray, Heat Visor were already overused. Corruption added,,? The weird green one and the ship visor command. Only Echoes had the most interesting ones, but they were integral to the whole theme of the game. After all the flack Echoes got (despite it being the absolute best game in the series), they weren't gonna go back.

I felt the psychic visor was pretty cool. It added a lot of little things to the game. Throwing bombs was a nice touch, and it kept some of the Corruption style puzzles without going too far into the motion controls that so many complained about.

The game is a visual feast. Stunning. Yeah the desert can be a bit basic but everything else is top notch.

Prime 1 kinda tricked you into thinking areas were bigger by using tons of in-between corridors. When I revisited it a few years after release, I couldn't help noticing that most of the game is a succession of room - corridor - room - corridor. Phendrana is especially egregious with this, with short U-shaped corridors containing annoying enemies and nothing else. This probably helped with loading, and most corridors being U-shaped also made the map look more convoluted than it really was.

Still, all the games previous to 4 used verticality, quite literally, on a completely different dimension. Prime 1 already had so many vertical rooms, and every single one of them had so much to do in it. Prime 4 is severely lacking on that front. I can mention that vertical room in the fire area with the flying bots, and… that's pretty much it. The mines never exploit the verticality of the whole map to any significant degree.

Prime 4 is the quintessential modern game that "renovates" old classics by stripping them of anything that the new generations found annoying in the old games.
Ya know, getting to the top of that high shaft and having to climb it all again from ground level because an enemy hit you on the top sucks - let's just not make vertical rooms at all, shall we?
Ya know, having to comb the whole map to look for missing collectibles sucks - let's put in some bots that will pinpoint every item you haven't picked up with utmost accuracy, shall we?
How the same people then fill their Assassin's Creed and whatnot games to the brim with a crapton of redundant, useless, uninteresting stuff (like, you know, the green crystals collectathon) and enjoy every second of it is anyone's guess, but oh well.

One could also argue that a lot of the old puzzles, especially Morph Ball puzzles, were needlessly convoluted and that they were clearly so just for the sake of it. And you know what, they wouldn't even be completely wrong. Still, those puzzles were a nice change of pace, and a good challenge. As braindead as the new ones, if we must, but still requiring some skill and patience.

MP4 had somewhat good intentions, but it took things too far in both directions. It stripped too much of what worked (even if it was annoying sometimes), and added too little. I still enjoyed the game because the gameplay loop still works like a charm. I just enjoy moving around, double jumping, aiming with motion controls, rolling around in Morph Ball mode, switching beams and unloading super missiles. That's why I don't think it's a disaster, just clearly inferior to what came before.

The bot thing is totally optional and you can't even use them until after getting the last beam upgrade. Even then you still had to backtrack and find them too. I thought it was a much better solution than just not having it at all if you are being a completionist and don't to want deal with a guide or spoilers.

The verticality… its true. Only Ice Belt outside, a litte bit in the Lava Pool and then the cool area within Volt Forge with the timed electro shock floors. However its not like the other games were filled with them either.

I think Beyond's biggest strength is how it managed to kinda curate all 3 past games into something new. There is a bit of each one here, but Beyond still manages to create its own identity. I think this game is one people will look back on down the road and realize what they missed here. Its actually very special.

Yes it has some annoyances with the crew and the hint system. It is not perfect, and they caught people off guard with the NPC's. But overall, this was a really sweet Prime game.

 

[Robb]

I mean, as far as visors go what more could they do? Xray, Heat Visor were already overused. Corruption added,,? The weird green one and the ship visor command. Only Echoes had the most interesting ones, but they were integral to the whole theme of the game. After all the flack Echoes got (despite it being the absolute best game in the series), they weren't gonna go back.

I felt the psychic visor was pretty cool. It added a lot of little things to the game. Throwing bombs was a nice touch, and it kept some of the Corruption style puzzles without going too far into the motion controls that so many complained about.

The game is a visual feast. Stunning. Yeah the desert can be a bit basic but everything else is top notch.

I don't think they necessarily have to include new visors, there's likely still potential with the already used ones. But I really miss the 'investigation' aspect and variety that they added.

Not to mention they were used in clever ways in previous entries just from a gameplay/exploration perspective. Like how they'd put enemies that forced you to use the X-Ray Visor in an area, and while you were fighting you could see things here and there in the environment/background that you were not able to see with the regular visor, which you were then enticed to naturally check out.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm still left baffled that we got a Metroid Prime sequel that completely got rid of the visors as a gameplay mechanic.

What saddens me is that instead of focusing on evolving the Prime formula without throwing away its foundations, the sales of MP4 might convince Nintendo they need to completely abandon the Prime series and reboot 3D Metroid… sigh…

 

[Robb]

What saddens me is that instead of focusing on evolving the Prime formula without throwing away its foundations, the sales of MP4 might convince Nintendo they need to completely abandon the Prime series and reboot 3D Metroid… sigh…

Well "thankfully" RETRO were given and instructed to work on (save) the mess that Bandai Namco had already made.

In that sense it's kind of difficult to asses Nintendo's view on it imo. While a lot of us here think the game is an absolute trainwreck of a Metroid Prime game, it is a polished, functional, and well reviewed (~8/10 range) game.

I'd hope Nintendo views it as as successful endeavor all things considered and that RETRO gets to make the next one from scratch.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

What saddens me is that instead of focusing on evolving the Prime formula without throwing away its foundations, the sales of MP4 might convince Nintendo they need to completely abandon the Prime series and reboot 3D Metroid… sigh…

Prime 5 is practically a given after seeing 4's ending, and somehow the disappointing sales of the series never convinced Nintendo to shelve it completely.

 

[AJUMP23]

I am near the end of MP4. I finished collecting Parts and far to many Crystals. I think gating the final boss or whatever behind smashing green crystals is a mistake. Mech Parts fine, but watching how few green Crystals I got when I would destroy a cluster is mind numbing. Terrible game design to do that. The levels are good and fun, bosses are mediocre. Desert is pretty lame because of all the crystal gathering. A solid game held back by some bad design decisions. I would like to go back to Samus just being a space hunter and doing her job and forget the chosen one stuff.

Just give me a Super Metroid style game for the next one.

 

[Matsuchezz]

I would like to go back to Samus just being a space hunter and doing her job and forget the chosen one stuff.

Just give me a Super Metroid style game for the next one.

That part of the chosen one, is so unimaginative and uninspiring, the first time the Lamorn mentioned that to Samus, I rolled eyed and knew the story would be awful.
Metroid need to be rebooted, salvage some gameplay mechanics and keep the 1st person view, but remove the first person adventure, we need an action packed game with stellar graphics, with a good story, awesome intelligent enemies, great bosses that make sense to kill in the Metroid Universe, great weapons because her current arsenal is boring and feels like she's firing laser bb's, right know she's killing insects, rare birds, and forgettable enemies, she is a bounty hunter, not a scientific or a detective, to be scanning tons of shit. She needs to be on a quest to achieve something, something that motivates Samus to finish the missions, right now she's a trained dog, that goes fetch whatever she's told, the federation pays her with meatballs, because she never collects any bounty.

Everything in Metroid Prime 4 feels old and dated. A super safe bet, the Different Samus suits are boring, her weapons are boring, the arm cannon needs to be dropped and have different weapons that attach to the suit, the fact that she doesn't speak nor swear at all is stupid and boring. Her space ship is boring. The "secret ending" where you get to see that Samus is a woman, wowed us when we were little kids. Now is retarded.
I played the game, but there wasn't anything cool about it.

Heres what the final fight between Samus and Sylux looks like, exciting!!

A Samus redesign is needed, they can take inspiration on the weapons from here.
All these are cool looking.

But I am aware the Switch 2 is underpowered, Nintendo are cheapskates, Retro is not talented enough nowadays. So this will be my wildest dream.

 

[Zephyranthes]

So after having my initial reaction upon finishing this of "boy this wasn't nearly as good as Metroid Prime 1", I went through Prime 1 Remastered to see if perhaps I was either being too harsh on MP4 or too generous to MP1.

I will give Metroid Prime 4 this much: I do think it is a more visually appealing game than MP1. Putting the desert aside, MP4's areas are more colorful, more ambitious in their visual design (especially Volt Forge), and generally more pleasant to look at.

I still find Metroid Prime 1 to be the superior game in every other qualitative respect, and vastly superior when it comes to exploration and map design. What's interesting is that you actually do more revisiting of areas in MP1 than in MP4, but MP1 is so much more inventive and clever with how it handles these revisits that it still ends up feeling way less tedious. A lot of this has to do with the difference in content density: MP1 rooms are packed with stuff to do, and not all of it is accessible your first time through. When sending you back to previous areas, the ever-expanding elevator network gives you different options on what path to take in getting there, so you have to think about both what route will get you there faster and what areas you will pass through on the way which may now have new things you can get to. This concept is almost entirely absent in MP4 because the big empty desert is the only way to get anywhere, and traversing it is pretty much the same experience the 20th time you do it as it was the previous 19.

 

[tr1p1ex]

the Different Samus suits are boring, her weapons are boring, the arm cannon needs to be dropped and have different weapons that attach to the suit, ... Her space ship is boring.

...gotta agree that
the different suits/shots were underbaked. Heat, ice, electricity shots ...did they really mean anything other than behave like a key to a door? They needed more reasons to use them.

The suit thing.. the last suit where you get that power. I used it a few times on the final boss and that was it.

The other 2 suits seemed to mostly just be a costume change to match the bike configs.

I still find Metroid Prime 1 to be the superior game in every other qualitative respect, and vastly superior when it comes to exploration and map design. What's interesting is that you actually do more revisiting of areas in MP1 than in MP4, but MP1 is so much more inventive and clever with how it handles these revisits that it still ends up feeling way less tedious. A lot of this has to do with the difference in content density: MP1 rooms are packed with stuff to do, and not all of it is accessible your first time through. When sending you back to previous areas, the ever-expanding elevator network gives you different options on what path to take in getting there, so you have to think about both what route will get you there faster and what areas you will pass through on the way which may now have new things you can get to. This concept is almost entirely absent in MP4 because the big empty desert is the only way to get anywhere, and traversing it is pretty much the same experience the 20th time you do it as it was the previous 19.

Yeah exactly. Hit the nail on the head. And even in the non-desert environments there just isn't any interesting revisiting as a rule of thumb.

 

[Jsisto]

The desert should have been how you get to each area the first time as well as hosted a hub base for the npcs as well as some light exploring. The green crystals should have been the rewards for completing shrines in the desert that are locked behind specific power ups. The areas after your first visit should have then been connected by some sort of underground rail system similar to primes elevator system. In summary, it should've been more like Tallon overworld but bigger(not THIS unnecessarily big) to justify the bike. All of this would have made the game immensely better.

 

[MagiusNecros]

The desert should have been how you get to each area the first time as well as hosted a hub base for the npcs as well as some light exploring. The green crystals should have been the rewards for completing shrines in the desert that are locked behind specific power ups. The areas after your first visit should have then been connected by some sort of underground rail system similar to primes elevator system. In summary, it should've been more like Tallon overworld but bigger(not THIS unnecessarily big) to justify the bike. All of this would have made the game immensely better.

This video gives you a pretty good idea on how messed up the map design and overall structure actually is. Portions of the game aren't even seamlessly connected at all.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

But I am aware the Switch 2 is underpowered, Nintendo are cheapskates

Daily reminder that this game had to run on OG Switch. While I don't think the end product would have been significantly different given the development hell and the obvious involvement of absolute noobs, a Switch 2-only Metroid could handily take things much further.

It could be interesting to take the concept of Metroid Samus seen in the ending of Dread and make a first-person action game out of that. I dunno, make a lot of different beams, but make it so that Samus can't have all of them at the same time like in Metroid 2. Have Samus absorb energy with her Metroid powers, put in a risk-reward mechanic based on that. Have a good number of smaller bosses like in Metroid 2, but more varied, more creative, and maybe not all mandatory if you just want to finish the game. It would be sick to have all of that, and a good metroidvania map on top of it all.

The limitations of the Switch 1 probably played a role in MP4 having separate maps and the desert to connect them.
And the green crystals thing smells of "you know, the artefact / key / battery hunt required in the previous games was tedious and dispersive, and a lot of people complained about it. Let's replace it with something equally tedious, but at least it doesn't require you to comb every map again and again without a clear idea of where to go". Sure, maybe they just realized that their maps were too small and linear to hide the keys to the endgame, so they came up with the crystals to gatekeep the game's final act without having to do more heavy work.

Anyway, there is no sensible reason the Switch 2 can't handle a much grander Metroid game.
And yeah, I mean, imagine Nintendo not wanting to burn millions and millions on a game from a series that sales-wise barely registers on the radar.

 

[AJUMP23]

Finished the game last night. I think the ending is pretty bad. The final boss fight is pretty good. No issue with the team. I do think the final battle is much tougher to avoid damage than any others.

Overall I think the game is good, but I would not recommend it to people.

 

[Juja]

Crazy how divisive this game has been. I really want Prime 5, but until we know sales numbers, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

I think it's fair to say it has highs and lows. How linear it is and the addition of Navi (Myles) is a not to my taste, but it didn't ruin it for me either; I really enjoyed it overall.

What I truly hope is that it sold well enough to justify 5, but ALSO Switch/2 editions of Prime 2 and 3. I feel like those 2 are so underrated. Prime 1 definitely gets too much credit... Kinda. It does deserve all the accolades for bringing Metroid into 1st person/3D. It's basically Ocarina of Time for Metroid, whereas Prime 2 is like the equivalent of Majora's Mask, and Prime 3 is equivalent to Twilight Princess. I would actually rank the Prime series like this - Echoes >>>> Corruption >>> Prime ~~ Beyond.

 

[tr1p1ex]

Crazy how divisive this game has been. I really want Prime 5, but until we know sales numbers, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

I think it's fair to say it has highs and lows. How linear it is and the addition of Navi (Myles) is a not to my taste, but it didn't ruin it for me either; I really enjoyed it overall.

What I truly hope is that it sold well enough to justify 5, but ALSO Switch/2 editions of Prime 2 and 3. I feel like those 2 are so underrated. Prime 1 definitely gets too much credit... Kinda. It does deserve all the accolades for bringing Metroid into 1st person/3D. It's basically Ocarina of Time for Metroid, whereas Prime 2 is like the equivalent of Majora's Mask, and Prime 3 is equivalent to Twilight Princess. I would actually rank the Prime series like this - Echoes >>>> Corruption >>> Prime ~~ Beyond.

It sold like doggy doo doo.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

wish i could play with the gamecube or wiimote+ controllers. both do the game better service.

enjoying the game but gonna be forgettable.
turning on the generator in the ice place was cool--music and lights gave me fifth element vibes. wouldnt be mad if they borrowed a touch from that universe going forward.