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[memoryman3]

I agree but there are a couple of points we need to address:

1. It's around 10 years since MS started going downhill. If we accept a 5 year dev cycle for a "AAA" game, their new IPs would have either a second entry already released or very close to release. Their established IPs would have 2 releases and a sequel in the making.

2. Dev cycle is not inherently increased because of the new hardware. Part of it is due to bad management which can then be subcategorised to many other reasons.
They should have cleaned house long ago and hired people with the right skills.
The Activision and Bethesda buyouts showed us they intended to throw serious money into the industry, but instead of addressing their internal disease, they brought others in and infected them too.

I feel like management is largely a scapegoat. Phil Spencer wasn't responsible for Craig in Halo Infinite.

And the most successful platform holder in the world, Valve, hardly make any games nowadays. Why are Sony/Microsoft expected to make so many more, unless you admit you only see consoles as secondary gaming platforms?

 

[Baemono]

Phil Spencer wasn't responsible for Craig in Halo Infinite.

Phil saw Craig and was happy about it.

Of course, it's a Ybarra story, so we don't know how accurate it is.

 

[Cyberpunkd]

Phil saw Craig and was happy about it.

An executive meddling in a development of the game is a very easy way to scare the talent away. Phil's problem was that mistakes hands off approach to content with making sure a game makes business sense and milestones are followed.

 

[LordCBH]

The original Xbox team insisted that it be a separate brand from Microsoft for a reason.

OG Xbox launch through like 2010 was peak. So may great games,

They've been destroying the entire thing ever since.

 

[Baemono]

An executive meddling in a development of the game is a very easy way to scare the talent away. Phil's problem was that mistakes hands off approach to content with making sure a game makes business sense and milestones are followed.

Yeah. It has been said countless times but you can be hands-off and you can also be completely oblivious on how a game looks like, and then defend yourself on podcasts saying "well we were expecting 10 points higher on Metacritic" (for a game scoring 54)

 

[LordCBH]

MS will do what Activision was afraid to do. Making changes to COD is not for faint of the heart.

The changes MS will do will be to go even harder on AI in the development space so they can cut down team sizes. AI is all Microsoft cares about.

 

[memoryman3]

OG Xbox launch through like 2010 was peak. So may great games,

They've been destroying the entire thing ever since.

Well I guess Valve just obliterated themselves then. No mainstream PC game for over a decade.

 

[Ellis]

Well I guess Valve just obliterated themselves then. No mainstream PC game for over a decade.

Valve doesn't need to release games. MS does to keep Xbox alive. Big difference.

Nothing MS can do on Windows will counter what Valve has with Steam. They've been trying with their Xbox storefront/App and it hasn't paid off.

Even Sony and Nintendo, both having far larger brand power and influence compared to Xbox, wouldn't be able to compete with Valve in the PC market with their own Storefronts.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

Phil Spencer wasn't responsible for Craig in Halo Infinite

He definitely was. Mike Ybarra tried to stopped Halo to be showed because it looked bad, but Phil Spencer had other plans because he saw it how it looks nice. Thanks Phil for Craig.

In stores, in the "real" market, the Xbox One was always sold on "sale" for less than the PS4. And Microsoft always made bundles.

Believe it or not, during one period, IIRC "greatest lineup in Xbox history" with Lara, Halo, Gears, Forza....MS had fucking 8 different bundles during holidays back then in 2015. EIGHT! And PS4 outsold it in both Nov. and Dec.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Valve doesn't need to release games. MS does to keep Xbox alive. Big difference.

Nothing MS can do on Windows will counter what Valve has with Steam. They've been trying with their Xbox storefront/App and it hasn't paid off.

Even Sony and Nintendo, both having far larger brand power and influence compared to Xbox, wouldn't be able to compete with Valve in the PC market with their own Storefronts.

They dont need to have a storefront.

They are the developer. They get 70%+ cut.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

They dont need to have a storefront.

They are the developer. They get 70%+ cut.

Oh dear... You appear to be completely confused about how the revenue works.

The console platform get 30% pure profit. The 3rd party has to deduct all their expenses from their 70%. And we are talking about modern games and that mean 5+ years of salaries.

The platform makes a killing, and that is why it is worth selling a console at a loss. That is the entire point. Trying to pretend it isn't a downgrade to become 3rd party is a lot of strong Cope indeed.

 

[Ellis]

They dont need to have a storefront.

They are the developer. They get 70%+ cut.

But what they're currently developing isn't bringing in the returns they were expecting.

Doing away hardware, Game Pass, and then putting absolutely everything into software will probably save the division in the long run.

As long as that software is decent. Something they're currently struggling with outside of FH.

 

[PeteBull]

The sad part of the story will be that they will make cuts in studios and games when this is what they really need to make a comeback.

Quality first party Xbox games is the only way to return. Without of course giving them to cheap mofos in Gamepass.

The industry was performing fine before the subscription bullshit. They committed suicide.

Thats the problem, if game from their first party studio is 70 or 80 or even 90 on meta, majority of its sales are wasted on gamepass day1, not much reason to strive for greatness, nowadays all those gamepass games need to be just "good enough" aka 70-80meta from sellout reviewers including brownie points for wokeness.
Here i only got hopes now for gears of wars prequel since it did really look oldschool(in good sense, so not for modern audience) to me, but it was all cgi, lets see actual gameplay then reasses ^^

As long as gamepass day1 exist there is 0 room for comback coz even if game is topnotch it wont sell for shit on xbox, it will sell on ps5 like fh5 tho

 

[Embearded]

I feel like management is largely a scapegoat. Phil Spencer wasn't responsible for Craig in Halo Infinite.

And the most successful platform holder in the world, Valve, hardly make any games nowadays. Why are Sony/Microsoft expected to make so many more, unless you admit you only see consoles as secondary gaming platforms?

Management gave the green light for Craig.
Someone in a decision taking position said it looks ok, let's show it, not an artist or a programmer.

Valve doesn't need to release their own games for the customers to have Steam on their PCs. Sony and Microsoft need to release system sellers so people buy their consoles and then buy third party games for these consoles so Sony and Microsoft get a 30% of the sale.
The analogy doesn't work.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

The sad part of the story will be that they will make cuts in studios and games when this is what they really need to make a comeback.

Quality first party Xbox games is the only way to return. Without of course giving them to cheap mofos in Gamepass.

The industry was performing fine before the subscription bullshit. They committed suicide.

Well, how industry is functioning in last 40 years? Buying games and supporting devs work so they can still continue to make games and release new ones. Go figure, MS.

 

[AJUMP23]

Blaming gaming, but 5 years ago they were ALL IN gaming with Satya wearing Halo sweatshirt

'Microsoft is all in on gaming,' says CEO Satya Nadella

If there were any doubts about Microsoft's commitment to the gaming industry, CEO Satya Nadella has moved to quash them by declaring his company is "all in on gaming".

stevivor.com

You can be all in and make wrong decisions.

 

[Baemono]

The industry was performing fine before the subscription bullshit. They committed suicide.

That's what I always said: they created a solution for a problem that didn't exist.

 

[Bondo]

Based on how they have conducted themselves- powerleveling themselves through the years to stay afloat- good.
Im all for competition and someone else take their place. I have purchased every console and have done my part enjoying their exclusives since XBox1, but those days are over - buying up companies and shitty practices and then trying to tell us its for "gamers". FOH
They just try to play us for fools- and shoot, many are. lol

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Oh dear... You appear to be completely confused about how the revenue works.

The console platform get 30% pure profit. The 3rd party has to deduct all their expenses from their 70%. And we are talking about modern games and that mean 5+ years of salaries.

The platform makes a killing, and that is why it is worth selling a console at a loss. That is the entire point. Trying to pretend it isn't a downgrade to become 3rd party is a lot of strong Cope indeed.

Playing their games on their hardware is still first party game.

Playing next Halo on Xbox Magnus will be same thing as playing Halo 3 on X360 back then.

Who cares if their hardware is not setup to sell a lot?

But what they're currently developing isn't bringing in the returns they were expecting.

Doing away hardware, Game Pass, and then putting absolutely everything into software will probably save the division in the long run.

As long as that software is decent. Something they're currently struggling with outside of FH.

Most of their devs are seasoned, have a lot of experience in surviving on their own on shoestring budgets.

I think they will be fine.

 

[DryvBy]

You're about to see why MS owning so many franchises was a bad idea. They're about to be vaulted forever.

 

[memoryman3]

Valve doesn't need to release games. MS does to keep Xbox alive. Big difference.

Nothing MS can do on Windows will counter what Valve has with Steam. They've been trying with their Xbox storefront/App and it hasn't paid off.

Even Sony and Nintendo, both having far larger brand power and influence compared to Xbox, wouldn't be able to compete with Valve in the PC market with their own Storefronts.

Why don't Microsoft just release games on PlayStation, Nintendo and their own Microsoft Store/Battle.net platforms instead of relying on Steam? If exclusives sell consoles, then I'm sure that MS would have no problem getting Steam users to use their own store to purchase and download desirable games.

Epic successfully managed to convert their Rocket League PC base to the Epic Store. I'm sure Microsoft can do the same with their own games and keep the Xbox platform sustainable even with hardware that allows Steam, especially when they can now sell games outside their own hardware.

 

[Luminoth-4545]

With a 32% decrease in Hardware units, I estimate that Microsoft shipped 1.5 million Xbox Series systems for the quarter.

 

[diffusionx]

Yeah. It has been said countless times but you can be hands-off and you can also be completely oblivious on how a game looks like, and then defend yourself on podcasts saying "well we were expecting 10 points higher on Metacritic" (for a game scoring 54)

After Redfall came out, Spencer went on podcasts and seemed genuinely surprised at the reception. That was a red flag.

Let's be honest, dude doesn't know games. He's larping. I know there are conspiracies about people playing his Xbox account for him... and I think it's true. At least Jim Ryan didn't pretend. But Jim Ryan's team at least knew games, and I think Jim Ryan had an idea of what people were looking for, Spencer and Spencer's team seems to not know and have no taste whatsoever.

 

[ToadMan]

What drives the incessant hate for Microsoft on GAF?

In times past, it's because they deliberately created a toxic fan base of man children. That was embarrassing by association.

But in the last 5 years, they're trying to kill the hobby in such a way that they can pick up the pieces and gouge everyone for it.

For that, I want MS out of gaming. But I'll accept them as a third party publisher which is basically what they are now.

Reality is, MS tried to swallow gaming, but luckily we've given them food poisoning and they're about spit us out - we'll come out gasping for air perhaps - but alive.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

After Redfall came out, Spencer went on podcasts and seemed genuinely surprised at the reception. That was a red flag.

Let's be honest, dude doesn't know games. He's larping. I know there are conspiracies about people playing his Xbox account for him... and I think it's true. At least Jim Ryan didn't pretend. But Jim Ryan's team at least knew games, and I think Jim Ryan had an idea of what people were looking for, Spencer and Spencer's team seems to not know and have no taste whatsoever.

Redfall, for all its flaws, still has some Arkane touch.

Would play it over a lot of games like Pokemon.

 

[Signalis]

Xbox needs more bussy to increase the gaming division earnings

 

[memoryman3]

But in the last 5 years, they're trying to kill the hobby in such a way that they can pick up the pieces and gouge everyone for it.

Could you explain why? Game Pass?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Management gave the green light for Craig.
Someone in a decision taking position said it looks ok, let's show it, not an artist or a programmer.

Valve doesn't need to release their own games for the customers to have Steam on their PCs. Sony and Microsoft need to release system sellers so people buy their consoles and then buy third party games for these consoles so Sony and Microsoft get a 30% of the sale.
The analogy doesn't work.

Not to mention Valve is legit doing GREAT things on the whole.

What they have done in making Linux a viable gaming platform is just INCREDIBLE.

Do I need a Half Life 3? No.

 

[Topher]

Why don't Microsoft just release games on PlayStation, Nintendo and their own Microsoft Store/Battle.net platforms instead of relying on Steam? If exclusives sell consoles, then I'm sure that MS would have no problem getting Steam users to use their own store to purchase and download desirable games.

Microsoft tried that and failed miserably. That's why they are selling their games on Steam.

 

[Ellis]

Why don't Microsoft just release games on PlayStation, Nintendo and their own Microsoft Store/Battle.net platforms instead of relying on Steam? If exclusives sell consoles, then I'm sure that MS would have no problem getting Steam users to use their own store to purchase and download desirable games.

Epic successfully managed to convert their Rocket League PC base to the Epic Store. I'm sure Microsoft can do the same with their own games and keep the Xbox platform sustainable even with hardware that allows Steam, especially when they can now sell games outside their own hardware.

You've answered your own question. Their good games (the small handful of them) are already on more popular platforms. Why would anyone choose Xbox hardware over PS5 or PC today. They literally can't keep hardware alive any more.

When I had GP I would still outright buy games on Steam due to how utterly shit the Xbox app is.

The longer they try and push hardware, storefronts, and Game Pass, the harder it will be for them to build up a healthy third party software only route.

 

[Ellis]

Playing their games on their hardware is still first party game.

Playing next Halo on Xbox Magnus will be same thing as playing Halo 3 on X360 back then.

Who cares if their hardware is not setup to sell a lot?


Most of their devs are seasoned, have a lot of experience in surviving on their own on shoestring budgets.

I think they will be fine.

Say that to all the devs they've laid off, and all the studios they've closed down.

This will continue until the calibre of games produced is vastly improved.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Say that to all the devs they've laid off, and all the studios they've closed down.

This will continue until the calibre of games produced is vastly improved.

No idea why they have been associated with layoffs and trimmings.

Its general trend in industry, lots of shutdowns and layoffs, hardly exclusive to them.

Check out whats going on at Ubisoft. Playstation also shuttered Concord devs. EA is sold in some god knows what deal, where they have taken a 20 billion loan on themselves.

Grim all around unfortunately.

 

[memoryman3]

Microsoft tried that and failed miserably. That's why they are selling their games on Steam.

So you agree that exclusive games don't move the needle? Must be why Microsoft are now releasing games on PlayStation.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

So you agree that exclusive games don't move the needle?

 

[Saber]

After Redfall came out, Spencer went on podcasts and seemed genuinely surprised at the reception. That was a red flag.

Let's be honest, dude doesn't know games. He's larping. I know there are conspiracies about people playing his Xbox account for him... and I think it's true. At least Jim Ryan didn't pretend. But Jim Ryan's team at least knew games, and I think Jim Ryan had an idea of what people were looking for, Spencer and Spencer's team seems to not know and have no taste whatsoever.

The guy probably holds a controller, start pressing buttons while someone near him tells:

Wow you're gaming real good!

 

[DeepEnigma]

The sad part of the story will be that they will make cuts in studios and games when this is what they really need to make a comeback.

Quality first party Xbox games is the only way to return. Without of course giving them to cheap mofos in Gamepass.

The industry was performing fine before the subscription bullshit. They committed suicide.

That's what I always said: they created a solution for a problem that didn't exist.

They were hoping it would drag their competition (Sony) down the same path and devalue their brand where they could not eat the losses & survive like a trillion dollar company could.

Their gamble failed. And,

You know, "spend them out of business."

 

[Topher]

So you agree that exclusive games don't move the needle? Must be why Microsoft are now releasing games on PlayStation.

Exclusives mean more for consoles when there is a fight for market share. Microsoft gave up on that this gen and is publishing on PlayStation to survive.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

No idea why they have been associated with layoffs and trimmings.

Its general trend in industry, lots of shutdowns and layoffs, hardly exclusive to them.

Check out whats going on at Ubisoft. Playstation also shuttered Concord devs. EA is sold in some god knows what deal, where they have taken a 20 billion loan on themselves.

Grim all around unfortunately.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Do you think it's unfair that Microsoft is being "singled out" instead of being lumped in with other massive failures like Ubisoft, EA, and Concord?

Anyway the big difference between MS and the others you've mentioned is that, for MS, gaming is only a small piece of a much larger company. A piece that is shrinking and that's looking very un-sexy compared to their other sectors like AI and cloud computing. Ubisoft and EA are gaming companies, either they turn things around or they die trying. Whereas Xbox exists only as long as Microsoft's CEO and shareholders feel that Xbox is still important to MS's overall strategic goals + worth sinking more money into.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Do you think it's unfair that Microsoft is being "singled out" instead of being lumped in with other massive failures like Ubisoft, EA, and Concord?

Anyway the big difference between MS and the others you've mentioned is that, for MS, gaming is only a small piece of a much larger company. A piece that is shrinking and that's looking very un-sexy compared to their other sectors like AI and cloud computing. Ubisoft and EA are gaming companies, either they turn things around or they die trying. Whereas Xbox exists only as long as Microsoft's CEO and shareholders feel that Xbox is still important to MS's overall strategic goals + worth sinking more money into.

Keep doing your thing. Its just amusing to me how many years they have been running it into ground.

Few more years and they would finally reach core of the planet.

 

[LordCBH]

They were hoping it would drag their competition (Sony) down the same path and devalue their brand where they could not eat the losses & survive like a trillion dollar company could.

Their gamble failed. And,

You know, "spend them out of business."

Phil never got his career moment of buying Nintendo either

Someone please think of Phil Spender during this tough time.

 

[mayham2199]

Relax.

Its just a quarter.

COD needs a reset, if it wants to survive and keep up with competitors.

It sold so less is clear indication they didn't try to attract all potential customers it can get. A lot of casual crowd.

They already predicted another drop next quarter as well. So unless they perform above their own expectations it will be two quarters.

 

[Topher]

No idea why they have been associated with layoffs and trimmings.

Its general trend in industry, lots of shutdowns and layoffs, hardly exclusive to them.

Check out whats going on at Ubisoft. Playstation also shuttered Concord devs. EA is sold in some god knows what deal, where they have taken a 20 billion loan on themselves.

Grim all around unfortunately.

I mean....you are quick to point out Concord, which was a massive failure, but failed to mention Hi Fi Rush which was a success. Opposite situations both resulting in studio closures. And then we have the fact that Microsoft as a whole has had massive profits at the same time that they laid off over 36k employees. And you don't understand why Microsoft is associated with layoffs?

 

[Hyper_hyper]

Content and services are where they are focused. So a drop there is questionable. Its explained by drop in COD.

Do you aware that revenue drop in content and services GP price increase by 50% is included, not just bad sales from BLOPS 7??

 

[Signalis]

After Redfall came out, Spencer went on podcasts and seemed genuinely surprised at the reception. That was a red flag.

Let's be honest, dude doesn't know games. He's larping. I know there are conspiracies about people playing his Xbox account for him... and I think it's true. At least Jim Ryan didn't pretend. But Jim Ryan's team at least knew games, and I think Jim Ryan had an idea of what people were looking for, Spencer and Spencer's team seems to not know and have no taste whatsoever.

But he wears gaming related shirts, he must be one of us.

 

[Tobimacoss]

Do you aware that revenue drop in content and services GP price increase by 50% is included, not just bad sales from BLOPS 7??

I'm curious. Didn't all Sony fans say that MS should not be putting their games on a cheap service Day 1 as it devalues the games. So now they increased prices for the Day 1 tier, to $30 month. Wouldn't that be a good thing now?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

No idea why they have been associated with layoffs and trimmings.

Its general trend in industry, lots of shutdowns and layoffs, hardly exclusive to them.

Check out whats going on at Ubisoft. Playstation also shuttered Concord devs. EA is sold in some god knows what deal, where they have taken a 20 billion loan on themselves.

Grim all around unfortunately.

Because they bought all these studios and they have the financial capacity to support them.

They choose not to, because the people they put in charge of overseeing these studios did not properly guide them.

They tried to solve every problem by throwing money at it, where Hood and Nudella have had enough. Fairly or unfairly.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

So you agree that exclusive games don't move the needle? Must be why Microsoft are now releasing games on PlayStation.

They don't move the needle for Xbox, but they definitely move the needle for Nintendo and Sony.

 

[memoryman3]

They don't move the needle for Xbox, but they definitely move the needle for Nintendo and Sony.

Every single game currently listed on the top and trending tabs for PSN are third party games, all available on Windows or Xbox.

Third party sales are not very high for Nintendo aside from a select few games in Nintendo adjacent genres.

 

[GHG]

I'm curious. Didn't all Sony fans say that MS should not be putting their games on a cheap service Day 1 as it devalues the games. So now they increased prices for the Day 1 tier, to $30 month. Wouldn't that be a good thing now?

There is no value in something which is not owned, regardless of how much someone has paid to not have ownership.

AKA the endowment effect.

 

[Three]

Bruh they just released a new half life game a few years ago and are doing invite only tests of a new online game NOW lol.

Can't tell if that was sarcasm but a few years ago was 2020. 5 years ago. Imagine MS or Sony didn't release a game since 2020 or anything notable prior to that since 2013. That would be Valve. They barely make any games at all.