John Bilbo
Member
"EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL", said the
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Christopher Nolan’s The Odyssey - July 2026
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
SJRB
Gold Member
We will never see casting any where near accurate again whilst the Oscars force movie's to have non white people.
I don't think this movie should have used a white woman but they should cast a woman that makes sense to the historical description.
I don't see how the Oscars requirements aren't classed as racism as forcing is the same as banning... In my uneducated opinion.
If you make movies to get Oscar nominations you already lost.
Chris Nolan is probably one of the few who could make a stand against this nonsense, but he folded. Like they all do.
VulcanRaven
Member
Or he just cast Lupita because he liked her and wanted to work with her.
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Accurately depicting history is by definition not propaganda.
Yes, communism is bad. What you've decided though by blanket support of McCarthy's actions is that the ends justify the means and that it's reasonable to give one man absolute power over the fate of others, bypassing due process, even when motivated by guilt by association, personal grudges, and the consolidation of power.
That's identical to how the communists do things.
calico
Member
I think it would depend whether we consider balance (which ofc would be very subjective) to be implied by 'accurate'. If not, then everything depicted within a piece of media could be accurate and yet overall it could still be propaganda, by omission.
I agree that the requirements are racist.
It is not a requirement -at least on paper- to meet this standard. 2 of the 4 standards must be met.We will never see casting any where near accurate again whilst the Oscars force movie's to have non white people.
I don't think this movie should have used a white woman but they should cast a woman that makes sense to the historical description.
I don't see how the Oscars requirements aren't classed as racism as forcing is the same as banning... In my uneducated opinion.
I agree that the requirements are racist.
VulcanRaven
Member
That hasn't been issue before. I don't think Disney's Hercules was disliked for it.
winjer
Member
Hercules had more respect and historical accuracy than this crap Nolan is making.
VulcanRaven
Member
Also many like God of War. People seem to very selective about what to get angry about.
winjer
Member
Again, more accurate than the crap Nolan is making.
Liopleurodon
Member
EDIT: Sorry, this was the post I wanted to edit.
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Liopleurodon
Member
EDIT: Better not.
Branded
Member
That was one of Disney's lower performing films from that era, though I think the art STYLE had more to do with it than any content within the film.
But even within the context of making the gods multi-hued, their facial structures and whatnot are still derived from Greeks as we understand them. And light eyes, light hair, and lighter skin (cultivated though avoidance of direct sunlight as a marker of not being a common laborer, a practice common across many cultures, not just the Greeks) are amply described in the writings from that time, as well as contrasting descriptions of african 'Ethiopians' and the like.
because we DO know how they looked, or at least how they wanted to represent themselves. It's not really a matter of guesswork....
and they certainly were capable of recognizing and representing the differences
so you can DEFINITELY make some very strong and supportable conclusions about that this era of Greece people COULD look like, as well as the written descriptions. Nolan is deliberately choosing to cast contrary to that, so its either his artistic intent or just the requirements of race-based rules designed to reduce the number of "white-looking" people in front of or behind the cameras. It's pure gaslighting to suggest that wanting to adhere as close to the historically accepted and literature provided descriptions of the characters is somehow "being racist because it's all fantasy!" Especially since we do have what appears to be a Troy, and the story may not actually be fantasy, rather a recounting of an actual event in some details.
Nolan is one of the few filmmakers who DOES have the clout to cast however he wants. Plus his previous desire for strong attention to detail made a lot of us hope for a very accurate, and to date unattainable, historically 'correct' looking film. Not just in terms of the actors, but costumes, sets, etc. Maybe not a Mel Gibson level of requiring the actors to speak ancient Greek, but certainly not this slap-dash looking pastiche we are being fed.
Liopleurodon
Member
It was just 2 screenshots where someone ask what people think about Lupita being casted as Helen, and then someone answering that it could be a good thing because the wars may not happen.
Branded
Member
Funneh.
Cyberpunkd
Banned
I just read Helen of Troy will be played by a black actress...
Martin Luther King as a white guy when? Louis Armstrong? Octavia Butler? Or is it open season for whites only?
Martin Luther King as a white guy when? Louis Armstrong? Octavia Butler? Or is it open season for whites only?
Cyberpunkd
Banned
Wasn't it common knowledge that war with Troy happened? There are ruins of the city discovered based on Homer writing about it:
Heinrich Schliemann - Wikipedia
That was only in the past few years that I feel like a general acceptance of "The Illiad might be partially factual" has really taken root. So then it kinda makes you wonder how much of The Odyssey might also be factual. I know some folks try to place the fantastic sea monsters and whatnot as geographical nautical dangers.Wasn't it common knowledge that war with Troy happened? There are ruins of the city discovered based on Homer writing about it:
Heinrich Schliemann - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
There are other things mentioned in the ancient texts that I'd really like to end up being real things. The notion of Atlantis. A massive regional flood corresponding to the younger dryas impact theory, Herodotus' description of the chambers underneath the pyramid, stuff like that. Obviously some of this strays a bit from what may be considered as academically rigorous but fascinating none the less.
![L*][*N*K](/data/avatars/m/842/842515.jpg?1756724107){kind=avatar}
L*][*N*K
Member
Then go watch that, like seriously if you are not interested in the movie why are you yapping?
BlackTron
Member
If he wants to watch the 50's version, he probably had some interest in this Odyssey film, which is why he looked at it long enough to form an opinion. But yeah, I know...no opinions allowed.
I'm teetering between watching this movie today, or saving it for the day Nolan's version comes out.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Remember this when you retard out on gaming side in threads of things you have no interest in other than to troll.
L*][*N*K
Member
I dont do that anymore, I am on my last warning
Liopleurodon
Member
Sorry, I just realized I did a double post.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I dont do that anymore, I am on my last warning
Bojji
Gold Member
Cast her in the next movie? Or as some other character, not fucking Helen of Troy...
For topicality, you couldn't beat her as Helen.
Follow me for more casting tips.
Maybe in 20 years it would be a big "who?" from youthful viewers but as it stands right now I think she has the highest name/face recognition of any woman on earth.
HRK69
Member
Nah. I think Taylor Swift or Beyonce get that title
Hell, I think even Oprah Winfrey would fit in that conversation
Didn't Oprah get dissed trying to buy a purse in Switzerland or something? Now tell me ANYONE kicking Sweeny out of their store
But yeah, of course there are women far more famous. But for raw sex appeal, I think SS is taking it at the moment. And FWIW, I think she could play an AWESOME conniving, manipulative bitch, ditching Menelaus with her kid and convincing Paris to run off with her even though all hells coming after her. There is a GREAT "Helen, BITCH QUEEN of Troy" story in there if anyone wants to tell it.
Svalr93
Banned
Follow me for more casting tips.
Hold on a moment, I thought women who looked like this aren't realistic and don't exist!?
vindafarna
Member
Follow me for more casting tips.
Who is she?
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Fictional character is black and deemed not pretty (the previous post) but real people should be race swapped? Helen of Troy wasn't real.
Cyberpunkd
Banned
Real or not - we don't know. But if she isn't the story is a part of Greek culture, it has people that are Greek, meaning white. Why is it acceptable to take a story from one culture and race swap it, isn't this the very definition of cultural appropriation?
Mind you, as a fan of history I find it absolutely tragic the peak of "black culture" seems to be fucking Marvel Movies. If she isn't really playing Helen I'm not even that mad, but she is treated as "token black" instead of producers funding a huge mega movie about a black empire in Africa.
Far more real than most.
Homer isn't history per se but it's not made up out of thin air, either. Helen of Troy may have existed. Either way, she was a Spartan.
Wasn't familiar with this adaptation
Looks fucking awesome. Love the compositions.
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
Or Circe
Except if Circe was Sweeney she could have me for however long she wanted and I probably wouldn't leave for another couple hundred years.
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AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
I bet she was. While Homer wrote it down the excuse for Agamemnon's war probably existed. Homer took an oral story made sure it was preserved.
So you are saying the play Hamilton was a mistake? Race swapped every character but the King.
DaciaJC
Gold Member
No, they shouldn't. That was the point of his post, to illustrate how ridiculous it is to race swap people who have a clearly defined race/ethnicity - and Helen could be counted among them based on how Homer describes her, even if her historical existence is up for debate.
I feel like plays are largely exempt from concerns like this since they are an ephemeral experience with just a small audience (compared to tv or movies). And Hamilton uses the casting largely as a marketing gimmick. Curious if there will be "all white" versions and how that would be received.
So I kinda put it alongside "The Wiz" as a targeted adaptation that alters the source to appeal to a different demographic, not really any different than Kurosawa's Throne of Blood using Macbeth but framing it for his own country.
It would be interesting to do MLK or Malcolm X as white or even asian, just to shift the focus from a specific race narrative and broaden it to humanity writ large. Or perhaps a slightly more remote character such as Nat Turner or Harriet Beecher Stowe, at what point do their stories become universal and more open to 'recasting'? Or even a mythic black character, such as John Henry (who raced the steam engine with his hammers). He wasn't real, and the chinese and irish worked the railroads just as hard, so could you change him to represent those groups?
AJUMP23
Parody of actual AJUMP23
Not in the current political environment in the west. You can only really get away with one race swap. Decedents of the Caucus mountains are the oppressors and can be removed from everything.
It has happened
as fairly remote examples. John Wayne, of course, was a massive star and probably the only way to get the movie made and Peter Sellars is playing in a comedy, so the 'yellowface' as it were, is part of the joke.
and it does still happen. Here, for example, is Gerard Depardieu in 2010ish playing Alexandre Dumas (on the right), who is pretty obviously a mixed race historical figure
but Gerard is a massive star in France, so probably a big reason why the movie happens AT ALL versus trying to find a fairly specific looking person that looks the part better. And Dumas isn't really known/celebrated based on his ethnicity, I don't think, so no one cares.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
and it does still happen. Here, for example, is Gerard Depardieu in 2010ish playing Alexandre Dumas (on the right), who is pretty obviously a mixed race historical figure
but Gerard is a massive star in France, so probably a big reason why the movie happens AT ALL versus trying to find a fairly specific looking person that looks the part better. And Dumas isn't really known/celebrated based on his ethnicity, I don't think, so no one cares.
Alexandre Dumas was 1/4 black. I don't see any problem here. Or do you still think a 1/4 black actor would have played the role of Alexandre Dumas more authentically and convincingly than one of France's most famous actors?
nkarafo
Member
Well thanks, as a Greek guy myself who grew up with these stories, i fucking hate it.
I guess i shouldn't be surprised after everything Hollywood has done the last 10 years but i was hoping Nolan would be more respectful.
Do they really think fucking up other cultures like that in media will age well? Woke retards may cheer for it now for political reasons, but in the future this is going to be mocked like other epic failures such as Caligula, forever.
Good going Nolan, i always thought of him as an overrated af director anyway. And Interstellar will always be "we have Contact at home".
I guess i shouldn't be surprised after everything Hollywood has done the last 10 years but i was hoping Nolan would be more respectful.
Do they really think fucking up other cultures like that in media will age well? Woke retards may cheer for it now for political reasons, but in the future this is going to be mocked like other epic failures such as Caligula, forever.
Good going Nolan, i always thought of him as an overrated af director anyway. And Interstellar will always be "we have Contact at home".
That depends, obviously. -I- don't see an issue, but if Dumas' blackness is important to you then presumably the casting is as well.
Consider Obama. He's 1/2 white, but good luck having a white actor play him while many black actors could do it, simply based on his looks, nothing about parentage. The curse of the "one drop rule" lives on as we quibble about skin tone. Or my wifes folks as they fight over what percentage gets you into the tribe or not.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Whitewashing was a thing for a long time before this current age of "racebending" the other way