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[Instant_Classic]

If I'm considered "aged out genre" just because I prefer SP games then I guess I'm glad they are devs out who still make game "aged out gamer" like me.

If your entire idea devs should only make the games that makes the most money then this industry will become dull as fuck and that's not the direction I want to see this dusty to go.

Yeah, and those numbers keep dwindling as the return on investment doesn't justify the costs of development.

Development costs keep trending upwards but the actual sales of said games on average, aren't.

That's a recipe for disaster.

 

[AGRacing]

How much money has Sony made publishing GAAS games vs when they were the kings of single player ? I don't see ANY of their shit games on that list.

 

[Instant_Classic]

How much money has Sony made publishing GAAS games vs when they were the kings of single player ? I don't see ANY of their shit games on that list.

Sony publicly stated PS5 is their most profitable generation.

Funny thing is, they barely even had to try.

That's the power of GaaS.

 

[Danjin44]

Yeah, and those numbers keep dwindling as the return on investment doesn't justify the costs of development.

So basically you want gaming industry be just about making money and passion goes out the window?

I don't know why the fuck you want something like that?

 

[Instant_Classic]

So basically you want gaming industry be just about making money and passion goes out the window?

I don't know why the fuck you want something like that?

Movies, music, and everything else already are at that point.

Gaming is arguably already at this stage, hence the indies are the good guys movement.

 

[bitbydeath]

Mad isn't it? I mean I'm one of those but played it for around and hour before never touching it again. Unreal how something so average in my eyes can blow up the way it did, pretty much by accident.

Fortnite is one of the few MP games I do play as it reminds me of older MP games.

No auto-healing, no load-outs, vehicles, and it requires strategy to win, not just go guns-a-blazing.

 

[Danjin44]

Gaming is arguably already at this stage, hence the indies are good guys movement.

Not really we still get new unique new IPs from AAA and AA devs even this year with games like Pragmata and Romeo is a Deadman and I will continue support those type of games over indie games.

 

[Instant_Classic]

I think he's right, the AAA industry runs on Gaas. Because they need massive and steady profits to show up on their quarterly reports, with regular timed content patches. That's what looks great to the fund managers, steady predictable profits and cashflow. It's like asking if you'd rather invest in a company that builds single family homes, or a company that build apartment buildings that collects rent, I guarantee you every REIT goes after the apartment building.
So every AAA company's management is trying to build the next Overwatch or Fortnite, and then they can coast on that game for next 2 decades.
That's why if you want real games, you look away from AAA.

This, you get it.

GAF is ran by passionate gamers that don't realize these companies actually need to make money to well, make games.

 

[Instant_Classic]

Not really we still get new unique new IPs from AAA and AA devs even this year with games like Pragmata and Romeo is a Deadman and I will continue support those type of games over indie games.

Don't be surprised if neither meets sales expectations.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

Op, your conclusion isn't supported by the data.

Every one of those GaaS games in the list in the OP is available on Xbox. How are their console sales doing?

 

[Danjin44]

Don't be surprised if neither meets sales expectations.

Here is the thing unlike GaaS games it doesn't have to. For example one of my favourite game Valkyria Chronicles didn't have high sales numbers even so I go back playing that game and fully enjoy it…..Can you do that with Concord or Anthem? No….GaaS games have expiration date and highly depend on other people in order be playable.

 

[ShadyAcshuns]

I'll stay out, yo.

If that's what ps and xb gamers are into... then lol I can't take you seriously.

 

[AGRacing]

Sony publicly stated PS5 is their most profitable generation.

Funny thing is, they barely even had to try.

That's the power of GaaS.

Yeah. Maybe trying would equal revenue from 1st party instead of just skimming Fortnite skin purchases for big bucks.

 

[clarky]

Here is the thing unlike GaaS games it doesn't have to. For example one of my favourite game Valkyria Chronicles didn't have high sales numbers even so I go back playing that game and fully enjoy it…..Can you do that with Concord or Anthem? No….GaaS games have expiration date and highly depend on other people in order be playable.

If you want to see sequels to those titles then it absolutely matters and for the developers whose jobs might be on the line it matters as well

Also nobody want to go back and play concord or Anthem those games were trash.

 

[Danjin44]

If you want to see sequels to those titles then it absolutely matters and for the developers whose jobs might be on the line it matters as well

That didn't stop Valkyria Chronicles getting 3 sequels and one spine off.

Original NieR Gestalt and didn't review well sold terribly and yet still got NeiR Automata

Suda 51 still makes game despite most his game don't sale crazy high.

GaaS games cost MUCH more to make and highly depend on player's engagement to stay active.

 

[Instant_Classic]

Op, your conclusion isn't supported by the data.

Every one of those GaaS games in the list in the OP is available on Xbox. How are their console sales doing?

People go where their friends are, the perception today is that Xbox is not cool.

PlayStation is

 

[Instant_Classic]

If you want to see sequels to those titles then it absolutely matters and for the developers whose jobs might be on the line it matters as well

Also nobody want to go back and play concord or Anthem those games were trash.

The narrative that people have that single player games automatically sell, is really confusing.

Most single player games like most GaaS games will probably fail.

GaaS games are higher stakes, but provide sustained growth opportunities.

Single player games, unless it's a well known established IP struggle and don't really reach greater audiences.

 

[clarky]

That didn't stop Valkyria Chronicles getting 3 sequels and one spine off.

Original NieR Gestalt and didn't review well sold terribly and yet still got NeiR Automata

Suda 51 still makes game despite most his game don't sale crazy high.

GaaS games cost MUCH more to make and highly depend on player's engagement to stay active.

As far as I'm aware VC was fairly popular no?

Same with the rest of the games you mention i don't think any of them outright bombed.

GAAS game cost as much as the bugget allows, lots of smaller ones. See stuff like Hunt or the Finals. I think the Arc Raiders team is less than 100 and took around 6 years from start to finish. Less than your average big AAA single player game. I realise they have other costs as well but must come in less than say HZD did.

 

[Instant_Classic]

I understand the feeling of holding on to tradition, single player games have been one of the strong foundations of the industry.

However, things move on.

It's like complaining about the eradication of horse and buggy for transportation, when the automobile was taking hold.

Single player games have their purpose, but the market wants to be connected and enjoy the social elements gaming provides.

Either you adapt, or quite simply, perish.

 

[Instant_Classic]

Single player games will still remain, it's just that as the stakes (resources, time, and budget) rise so does the risk in making them.

I don't think people here understand the risk of the one and done business model, of single player games.

 

[Danjin44]

far as I'm aware VC was fairly popular no?

It was popular but unfortunately but sake wise it do well. Thankfully that didn't stop them making me VC4.

 

[MagnesD3]

I think this guy is a suit from one of these companies. You know the kind that are likely to end up in some files... Money over anything right.

 

[bighugeguns]

The AAA Western industry currently runs on dishonesty which is why it's morphing into like 5 games only.

Way too many shady mofos got in.

But it'll be fine, the gamblers know the house always wins in the end. Sooner or later even the craziest investors will get tired of perpetually increasing high risk gambling masked as investing.

Private equity will learn to fear the words "design by committee", sounds comfy and safe and alluring, right? Wrong. It's a fucking syndicated, controlled marketing death trap, they have no access to precious and rare creative neon talent so they exclusively rely on bullshit, take your money and run.

If you have a good eye, invest in cheap indies, it's still gambling, but at least you're not betting the farm on giant well oiled soulless copycat gaas scams, the returns you can get from a single neon indie will make these AAA aholes seem like a joke.

Put your money behind original and special stuff that doesn't desperately and increasingly rely on obvious tightly controlled marketing in order to trick consumers, that's not success, that's just perpetual damage control because their whole shtick is fucked.

Concord, that's about 400 Indies gone, poof. GAAS is ultra high risk gambling for tasteless crazy people.

 

[Felessan]

Players that play this shity gayass games will get older and loose interest in multiplayer games. Turning their attention into single player and more relaxed experiences.

Most likely they will stay in gaas but shifts from more demanding PVP to more relaxing PvE or even pseudo-solo games

The more gaas, the less money from me they will get from me. They are fools if they only target the younger crowd. There are millions of old head gamers who only play single player. It's money on the table. It's why indie and AA sells as AAA has jumped the shark.

As SP gamers strata age out, number of AAA SP games will run thin and AA and Indies become more visible.
It's not like they sell more than AAA (E3 hardly did better than FF16/FF7R2 money wise and latter considered weak by AAA standards), they are just more visible now.
The process will continue until it stabilized on a few AAA and bunch of AA/indies on a level where some, but notuch players can sustain sales of those titles. Kinda how Korean and Chinese game space looks like (yes, there are WuKong and Stellar Blade, but they are mouses in room with elephants, both practically funded by gaas btw)

Bethesda was making single player games before they became first party so this idea that we wouldn't have those games without gaas doesn't really fly.

They were one of the first who divest to GaaS with TESO and later F76
Having backbone of constant stream of money really lucrative and helps in a harsh times.

He is 21. I am sure there are others who had parents that played single player games with their kids.

A lot of people continue to play gaas when they grew up. This "social aspects" of gaming is a strong drug and it's hardly present in SP games.
Quite some people I know who played UO/Muds in 90s still inclined to play similar games even though they past their 40s already.

How much money has Sony made publishing GAAS games vs when they were the kings of single player ? I don't see ANY of their shit games on that list.

Probably a lot in GT7, MLB, Destiny and HD2
Their games are more on PvE/Sports side and those take less hours and playing several games more often (you don't care about ranks and skill)

 

[rodrigolfp]

Mad isn't it? I mean I'm one of those but played it for around and hour before never touching it again. Unreal how something so average in my eyes can blow up the way it did, pretty much by accident.

You didn't see everything in 1 hour. There is nothing average there in the gameplay. The only "questionable" aspect is the building mechanics, but there is a no-build mode.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Single player games will still remain, it's just that as the stakes (resources, time, and budget) rise so does the risk in making them.

I don't think people here understand the risk of the one and done business model, of single player games.

I dont think you understand business at all

 

[LordCBH]

I understand the feeling of holding on to tradition, single player games have been one of the strong foundations of the industry.

However, things move on.

It's like complaining about the eradication of horse and buggy for transportation, when the automobile was taking hold.

Single player games have their purpose, but the market wants to be connected and enjoy the social elements gaming provides.

Either you adapt, or quite simply, perish.

Are you fucking retarded? Based on everything, I can only assume you're some exec at Ubisoft who's fucking salty that every live service game not named Rainbow Six failed spectacularly.

 

[clarky]

You didn't see everything in 1 hour. There is nothing average there in the gameplay. The only "questionable" aspect is the building mechanics, but there is a no-build mode.

Maybe I played for a bit longer than that, but 3rd person BR just isn't my thing. I generally know if im going to like something or not pretty quickly or at least if its worth putting some effort it to get to know the game better.

Not saying its shit because clearly a hell of a lot of people love it. Notice in my post i said "average in my eyes". Like I said its just not for me.

 

[StueyDuck]

Gamers today are just consumers. Its all about quantity

Same as Netflix people dont care about whats on the platform they just want more shows to consume.

 

[bighugeguns]

Gamers today are just consumers. Its all about quantity

Same as Netflix people dont care about whats on the platform they just want more shows to consume.

Good point, quantity is the death of GAAS, the problem with OP is there's simply too many people like him. They come off an assembly line.

They should have a real life battle royalle where all these money crazy GAAS bros cull their own numbers, then the model will instantly be less risky.

But this kind of applies to all big budget games, it's too crowded, there are too many offramps for consumers and every now and then a neon indie permanently inches the needle away from the current big models of doing things.

Trying to decide which is worse for these guys, backlogs, committee design, hysterical controlled marketing, neon Indies or overcrowding. None of these threats are solvable and only compounds risk.

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Damn, and I believed Men_In_Boxes was the master... he's just the padawan.

 

[EN250]

So?

Second in that list is GTAV, how many developers can do the same as R*? There is a reason GTAVI is not out yet, the amount of money spent in it is probably bigger than the GDP of my country

Third on that list is COD, how many developers tried and failed miserably to do their own successful FPS?

Eight on that list is BF6, how many developers have the luxury of having a core fanbase that sticks to them after 2 bad games in a row?

The point is that there is no real guarantee of being the next big GAAS winner when the top of the list is filled with games from franchises that have been around for years, if not decades already

GAAS is a russian roulette with a fully loaded .357 phyton, you ain't winning any way or the other, lmao

 

[DavidGzz]

Probably was many of us in our younger years. Nowadays I just want a nice long SP game. Good thing there is room for both and money in both or else we wouldn't be getting Crimson Desert, RE9, Onimusha, etc.

 

[Topher]

Probably was many of us in our younger years. Nowadays I just want a nice long SP game. Good thing there is room for both and money in both or else we wouldn't be getting Crimson Desert, RE9, Onimusha, etc.

That's what I don't get with many of these threads. They seem obsessed with the idea that SP is going completely away. Same with the cloud fanatics who think cloud is the one and only "future of gaming". I don't think these people realize how vast gaming really is and there are business opportunities for devs in a multitude of areas.

They were one of the first who divest to GaaS with TESO and later F76
Having backbone of constant stream of money really lucrative and helps in a harsh times.

Fair point. I'm just pushing back on this idea that single player gaming is dependent on gaas funding. Plenty of examples that say otherwise even if Bethesda isn't the best.

 

[Instant_Classic]

I think this guy is a suit from one of these companies. You know the kind that are likely to end up in some files... Money over anything right.

Being a gamer that understands the business element is a bad thing?

You guys live in a bubble where money doesn't matter, just make things for the sake making things.

Unfortunately, salaries need to be paid and bills exist.

If GaaS is where the money is, go where the money is.

Why is this so hard to fathom?

Damn

 

[bighugeguns]

Being a gamer that understands the business element is a bad thing?

You guys live in a bubble where money doesn't matter, just make things for the sake making things.

Unfortunately, salaries need to be paid and bills exist.

If GaaS is where the money is, go where the money is.

Why is this so hard to fathom?

Damn

Plenty of money at the casino too. Go get it.

Why wouldn't you go? Because it's risky? Same logic applies to GAAS, bro.

 

[Instant_Classic]

The AAA Western industry currently runs on dishonesty which is why it's morphing into like 5 games only.

Way too many shady mofos got in.

But it'll be fine, the gamblers know the house always wins in the end. Sooner or later even the craziest investors will get tired of perpetually increasing high risk gambling masked as investing.

Private equity will learn to fear the words "design by committee", sounds comfy and safe and alluring, right? Wrong. It's a fucking syndicated, controlled marketing death trap, they have no access to precious and rare creative neon talent so they exclusively rely on bullshit, take your money and run.

If you have a good eye, invest in cheap indies, it's still gambling, but at least you're not betting the farm on giant well oiled soulless copycat gaas scams, the returns you can get from a single neon indie will make these AAA aholes seem like a joke.

Put your money behind original and special stuff that doesn't desperately and increasingly rely on obvious tightly controlled marketing in order to trick consumers, that's not success, that's just perpetual damage control because their whole shtick is fucked.

Concord, that's about 400 Indies gone, poof. GAAS is ultra high risk gambling for tasteless crazy people.

Yes GaaS is high risk gambling, but the pays off set you up for fortune.

You only need to win once.

The industry and suits believe it's worth it, but hey let's listen to out of the loop gamers.

Right?

Stay playing your single player games, the industry will continue on the pursuit of money.