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[Shogmaster]

How many times is this more powerful then ps6 home console version?

1.33x? 1.5x? Hard to say bc CPU config and RAM bandwidth is so different. GPU only is prolly 1.33x depending on clocks.

 

[Shogmaster]

30-50% depending on TDP targets for both

What's your info on Magnus TDP? Similar to Tom's 300W+?

 

[Topher]

On a slight tangent.

K KeplerL2 said in another thread that even if Magnus is twice as expensive as the Steam Machien, it would be a better value for spces/performance.

To me, it just makes the most sense to wait an extra year to get that instead of the anemic Steamdeck.

Once the price crosses a certain threshold then it has priced itself out of the console market and price/performance no longer matters. This is why the 3060 variants are always the best sellers for PCs. Anemic or not, Steam Machine is for a different, larger market and its primary competition will be PS5/PS6. Magnus is competing with higher end PCs and I won't be shocked at all if it is priced similarly.

 

[Shogmaster]

Once the price crosses a certain threshold then it has priced itself out of the console market and price/performance no longer matters. This is why the 3060 variants are always the best sellers for PCs. Anemic or not, Steam Machine is for a different, larger market and its primary competition will be PS5/PS6. Magnus is competing with higher end PCs and I won't be shocked at all if it is priced similarly.

I'm willing to bet Magnus will sell at much better rate than Steam Machine when normalized for launch dates.

 

[adamsapple]

Once the price crosses a certain threshold then it has priced itself out of the console market and price/performance no longer matters. This is why the 3060 variants are always the best sellers for PCs. Anemic or not, Steam Machine is for a different, larger market and its primary competition will be PS5/PS6. Magnus is competing with higher end PCs and I won't be shocked at all if it is priced similarly.

That's fine, I'm looking at the perceptible value for a long term purchase that lasts a while. Somehow I don't think the magnus is going to be touching the 2.5k/3k price point either but that is left to be seen.

 

[subzero83]

30-50% depending on TDP targets for both

gonna wait to see how this results in real gaming performance but it seems like a pretty big difference? like xbox might be the only console of doing proper path tracing?

 

[GHG]

Once the price crosses a certain threshold then it has priced itself out of the console market and price/performance no longer matters. This is why the 3060 variants are always the best sellers for PCs. Anemic or not, Steam Machine is for a different, larger market and its primary competition will be PS5/PS6. Magnus is competing with higher end PCs and I won't be shocked at all if it is priced similarly.

Yep, also the same reason why the Steam Deck out sells all the other PC handhelds.

 

[KeplerL2]

What's your info on Magnus TDP? Similar to Tom's 300W+?

Idk, that stuff can be decided less than a year from launch.

 

[memoryman3]

Idk, that stuff can be decided less than a year from launch.

And RAM? I really hope MS comes with a 48GB SKU.

 

[MCH2024]

The only caveat is that cooling costs are not insignificant. Sony going for 160W TDP on PS6 (Rumor) is likely due to it.

The major issue Magnus will have is securing enough GDDR7 to launch with enough volume.

 

[Topher]

I'm willing to bet Magnus will sell at much better rate than Steam Machine when normalized for launch dates.

Perhaps. Valve mostly does not sell in retail stores so that will limit its exposure. Either way, I wouldn't touch a bet like that without knowing the price of both.

That's fine, I'm looking at the perceptible value for a long term purchase that lasts a while. Somehow I don't think the magnus is going to be touching the 2.5k/3k price point either but that is left to be seen.

I mean.....PS4 is still going strong so I don't think most folks have to worry too much about that. Anybody's guess on what this stuff will be priced at. I said I wouldn't be shocked and that works both ways simply due to the volatility of the market. if the AI bubble bursts in the next two years, shit will go sideways.

 

[MCH2024]

I really hope MS comes with a 48GB SKU

Probability: 0.1%

At current GDDR7 pricing, 48GB GDDR7 would probably cost more than a PS5 by itself. And 4GB GDDR7 will (obviously) prioritize Rubin CPX AI SuperChip and charge accordingly.

Also, There are 0 non-AI gaming use cases for that much memory. Extravagance is never indulged during shortages.

Personally I am hoping for the opposite. For a 24GB GDDR7 SKU targeting 999$. If it can run windows fully with free online it'd be Amazing value.

 

[Three]

This is a 5-10 million seller tops imo. Which is fine as long as that what their expectations are as well.

That's around what I figure too. I suppose one thing I haven't considered is that they may just shift a lot of those SoCs to xcloud to reach that 10M commitment. Something you don't really do for a handheld SoC.

 

[memoryman3]

Probability: 0.1%

At current GDDR7 pricing, 48GB GDDR7 would probably cost more than a PS5 by itself. And 4GB GDDR7 will (obviously) prioritize Rubin CPX AI SuperChip and charge accordingly.

Also, There are 0 non-AI gaming use cases for that much memory. Extravagance is never indulged during shortages.

Personally I am hoping for the opposite. For a 24GB GDDR7 SKU targeting 999$. If it can run windows fully with free online it'd be Amazing value.

With PS6 possibly having 30GB, I fear that the higher memory could be mandatory for Magnus. With 5GB for the OS, and a few GB for the CPU 24GB of video memory allocated to Magnus would mean just 12 for the system, and we know how Windows games like to copy data from system memory to VRAM.

Consoles and their memory setups have been causing problems for PCs since Arkham Knight.

 

[MCH2024]

I don't see how AMD would require a minimum order commitment of 10M for a custom SoC for a handheld but then accept only a 1M commitment for another custom SoC.

Who said they need 10M commitment?

The reason for the commitment is that AMD basically sells those console SoCs basically very close to cost. In exchange AMD gets help developing their IP and gets guaranteed revenues.

Tape out and mask set costs are significant. There is a minimum volume for any chip or else it's cost prohibitive to sell. And magnus is 2 chips.

 

[Topher]

Who said they need 10M commitment?

K KeplerL2 made that statement in reference to why Microsoft dropped their planned handheld.

 

[MCH2024]

With PS6 possibly having 30GB, I fear that the higher memory could be mandatory for Magnus. With 5GB for the OS, and a few GB for the CPU 24GB of video memory allocated to Magnus would mean just 12 for the system, and we know how Windows games like to copy data from system memory to VRAM.

You're acting like 24GB VRAM isn't a metric shit ton extreme high end configuration.

As of now it looks like Magnus is 1,199$ with 36GB and PS6 is 749$ with 30GB. Tariff relief for consoles is needed to launch at those prices.

 

[//DEVIL//]

Full disclousure, im hyped for it, even if i dont buy it(maybe i will, who knows, nothing is set in stone yet) i want its specs to be officially announced, lets put some preasure both on sony and pc market too, bring back some healthy or even not so healthy competition.

i dont care about this thread now i am just laughing at this mf throwing his friend under the bus so he can run for his life. jesus lmao

 

[memoryman3]

You're acting like 24GB VRAM isn't a metric shit ton extreme high end configuration.

As of now it looks like Magnus is 1,199$ with 36GB and PS6 is 749$ with 30GB. Tariff relief for consoles is needed to launch at those prices.

Once upon a time 8GB VRAM was considered extreme.

24GB VRAM is extreme but 12GB system RAM is anaemic in 2026.

 

[MCH2024]

Once upon a time 8GB VRAM was considered extreme.

This is no once upon a time here. If you haven't noticed we're stuck. Memory's moore's law is dead. There will be increases but they slowed down to the extreme.

24GB VRAM is very high end in 2028.

24GB VRAM is extreme but 12GB system RAM is anaemic in 2026

It's a console. CPU+OS use about 7GB on Gen 9 consoles.

You can game on 8GB RAM on PC easily even with a slop OS like windows if your VRAM doesn't overfill.

 

[Physiognomonics]

1.33x? 1.5x? Hard to say bc CPU config and RAM bandwidth is so different. GPU only is prolly 1.33x depending on clocks.

Memory Bandwith is only 20% faster on Magnus though. So it's really going to depend on the games. The CPU limited games could run quite faster on Magnus.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Memory Bandwith is only 20% faster on Magnus though. So it's really going to depend on the games. The CPU limited games could run quite faster on Magnus.

20% more bandwidth but also more than duble l2 cache

 

[Shogmaster]

Memory Bandwith is only 20% faster on Magnus though. So it's really going to depend on the games. The CPU limited games could run quite faster on Magnus.

But then again, PS6 will be base platform for the gen again, so there won't be many CPU limited game either...

 

[memoryman3]

This is no once upon a time here. If you haven't noticed we're stuck. Memory's moore's law is dead. There will be increases but they slowed down to the extreme.

24GB VRAM is very high end in 2028.


It's a console. CPU+OS use about 7GB on Gen 9 consoles.

You can game on 8GB RAM on PC easily even with a slop OS like windows if your VRAM doesn't overfill.

Mafia Old Country stutters on PC (Yes, Xbox Magnus will be a PC) if you have 16GB of system RAM, even if you run with 32GB VRAM. Many games have system memory usage aligned with the PS5's available VRAM for games (10GB?). Next gen, we could see games want 24GB of system memory on Windows, leaving Magnus in a tough spot for 4K gaming.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

But then again, PS6 will be base platform for the gen again, so there won't be many CPU limited game either...

PS5 is current base platform and many ue5 games are not only gpu but also cpu limited

 

[Hyper_hyper]

Memory Bandwith is only 20% faster on Magnus though.

Em....what are the rumored GB/s numbers for both?

 

[Shogmaster]

PS5 is current base platform and many ue5 games are not only gpu but also cpu limited

That only happen recently in the 5th year of the console tho no?

 

[Shogmaster]

Em....what are the rumored GB/s numbers for both?

160 bit vs 192 bit. Both 32 gbps G7 modules. 640GB/s vs 768GB/s.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

That only happen recently in the 5th year of the console tho no?

apparently we are in middle of cycle ;d

 

[sncvsrtoip]

gonna wait to see how this results in real gaming performance but it seems like a pretty big difference? like xbox might be the only console of doing proper path tracing?

Difference will be probably bigger than ps5 vs ps5pro

 

[Shogmaster]

apparently we are in middle of cycle ;d

i can't remember any tbh. Most games have 60fps performance modes on both PS5 and Series X AFAICT.

 

[Three]

Who said they need 10M commitment?

Kepler has said that the xbox SoC needs a minimum order and that the handheld was cancelled because AMD wanted 10M+ units to justify making a dedicated SoC.

That was in the thread discussing Magnus:

I don't know the exact details of the AMD contract, but they must have a minimum amount of units ordered from AMD, and the "Xbox PCs" from ASUS/MSI/etc are probably not enough to reach that amount. So they would have to either pay a fine, or buy the chips and give them away to OEMS for free. IOW (in other words), it's likely more expensive for them to cancel the 1st-party console than to release it.

AFAIK the handheld was cancelled because AMD wanted a commitment of 10m+ units to justify making a dedicated SoC, but with Steam Deck only selling ~5 million units and ASUS ROG/Lenovo Legion only selling 1-2 million MS didn't want to take the risk.

Tape out and mask set costs are significant. There is a minimum volume for any chip or else it's cost prohibitive to sell. And magnus is 2 chips.

Exactly and Kepler has mentioned that the minimum for AMD was 10M for the handheld SoC and I don't see why AMD would accept only a 1M commitment for Magnus. It likely has the same commitment. It may be that magnus doesn't sell, MS just calls it a writeoff and gives the remaining chips to OEMs with commitments of their own for windows support or something. I suspect they will just stuff it into xcloud blades though and they wouldn't really be doing that with handheld SoCs.

 

[subzero83]

Difference will be probably bigger than ps5 vs ps5pro

hmmm not sure, if fsr4 works well i think the main difference will probably be path tracing in some games.

 

[Hyper_hyper]

160 bit vs 192 bit. Both 32 gbps G7 modules. 640GB/s vs 768GB/s.

Well, 192 bit bus can also be a 672GB/s. But could also be higher

 

[Loxus]

I would be surprised if it's only 1M. I don't see how AMD would require a minimum order commitment of 10M for a custom SoC for a handheld but then accept only a 1M commitment for another custom SoC.

Depends on how custom the SoC really is.
MLiD also detailed Medusa Halo and Medusa Halo Mini.

Medusa CCD
12 × Zen6 Cores

Medusa Halo IOD (which is awfully close to Magnus SoC)
4 × Zen6 Cores
8 × Zen6c Cores
2 × Zen6 LP Cores
XDNA3 (AIE4) NPU
Multimedia

Medusa Halo Mini
Medusa Halo IOD + AT4 (24CUs/1SE)

Medusa Halo
Medusa Halo IOD + AT3 (48CUs/2SEs) + Medusa CCD (Optional)

Xbox Magnus
Possibly: Medusa Halo IOD + AT2 (72CUs/3SEs)

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

30-50% depending on TDP targets for both

Will be interesting to see which Devs really put its power to use and which not bothers wasting resources on such a niche machine

 

[DeepEnigma]

30-50% depending on TDP targets for both

That's not a whole lot in perspective when the XSX is on paper 30% more than PS5 now.

And we see how that translated in the real world with one's customizations versus the others base AMD feature kit.

 

[Topher]

So are all the misgivings about MLiD being a source of information pretty much gone now? Asking because it wasn't that long ago that people scoffed quite a bit whenever he was referenced.

Not that I'm saying it should be one way or another.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

So are all the misgivings about MLiD being a source of information pretty much gone now? Asking because it wasn't that long ago that people scoffed quite a bit whenever he was referenced.

 

[Shogmaster]

Well, 192 bit bus can also be a 672GB/s. But could also be higher

They are both using 32gbps GDDR7 modules.

 

[Three]

And RAM? I really hope MS comes with a 48GB SKU.

Xbox (not Xbox on PC) I think was rumoured to have 36GB.

Depends on how custom the SoC really is.
MLiD also detailed Medusa Halo and Medusa Halo Mini.

Medusa CCD
12 × Zen6 Cores

Medusa Halo IOD (which is awfully close to Magnus SoC)
4 × Zen6 Cores
8 × Zen6c Cores
2 × Zen6 LP Cores
XDNA3 (AIE4) NPU
Multimedia

Medusa Halo Mini
Medusa Halo IOD + AT4 (24CUs/1SE)

Medusa Halo
Medusa Halo IOD + AT3 (48CUs/2SEs) + Medusa CCD (Optional)

Xbox Magnus
Possibly: Medusa Halo IOD + AT2 (72CUs/3SEs)

That is a possibility but then I don't see what kind of customisation on the xbox handheld would make it that different from AMDs current Ryzen AI MAX plans either.

 

[PeteBull]

How many times is this more powerful then ps6 home console version?

At the very least 20-30% in pure power, maybe bit more in some specific scenarios like rt or ai upscaling.
Think ps6 version has dips to 45fps in some heavy gpu scenarios while this beast holds stable 60, or ps6 version has to dynamic res down the game to that 20-30% lower res(being visibly more pixelated) compared to pristine image quality this baby gonna provide.
For another comparision base ps5 vs ps5pr0 is up to 45% improvement gpu wise, but in most cases its around 30% , aka roughly what the difference gonna be here.

 

[Bojji]

That's not a whole lot in perspective when the XSX is on paper 30% more than PS5 now.

And we see how that translated in the real world with one's customizations versus the others base AMD feature kit.

Teraflop difference was ~20%. At the same time higher clock allowed some parts of PS5 GPU to be faster in certain aspects vs. XSX. Next gen Xbox looks to better in all aspects vs. PS6.

And what customization you are talking about? PS5 is pretty much bare RDNA1+RT. PS5 looks like the least custom Sony console, compared to PS4 that got improved GPGPU stuff, PS4 Pro that got some things downported from Vega or PS5 Pro with custom ML part.

 

[MCH2024]

Mafia Old Country stutters on PC (Yes, Xbox Magnus will be a PC) if you have 16GB of system RAM, even if you run with 32GB VRAM. Many games have system memory usage aligned with the PS5's available VRAM for games (10GB?). Next gen, we could see games want 24GB of system memory on Windows, leaving Magnus in a tough spot for 4K gaming.

Stuttering. Average FPS is perfectly fine. windows is just a slop vibecoded OS.

So are all the misgivings about MLiD being a source of information pretty much gone now? Asking because it wasn't that long ago that people scoffed quite a bit whenever he was referenced.

MLID has legitimate sources. But some of his info is outdated and you need to sometimes parse the analysis from the leak.

 

[ReasonBeing]

Give it to me

 

[J Required]

That's not a whole lot in perspective when the XSX is on paper 30% more than PS5 now.

And we see how that translated in the real world with one's customizations versus the others base AMD feature kit.

People here — as usual — are blowing the gap out of proportion.

We were originally talking about PS5 vs XSX, a straight console-to-console comparison on fixed hardware. Now it's shifted to PS6 vs Magnus, which turns it into something closer to a console vs PC-style platform discussion — a completely different framework.

Optimization has never really been Microsoft's strongest area, and if Magnus leans even further into a hybrid/PC-like structure, that tight, single-target optimization only becomes harder. So that imaginary "30% advantage" people keep repeating? It likely won't hold up under real-world development conditions.
We've already seen how a supposedly bigger gap (PS5 vs XSX) actually played out.
I wouldn't worry about how PS6 will fare in that scenario.

#SonyToo

My favorite is.. " I have been a PS fan my whole life ......." stories

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

We were originally talking about PS5 vs XSX, a straight console-to-console comparison on fixed hardware. Now it's shifted to PS6 vs Magnus, which turns it into something closer to a console vs PC-style platform discussion — a completely different framework.

And price

 

[Shogmaster]

Xbox (not Xbox on PC) I think was rumoured to have 36GB.

I predict MS Magnus will have 36 for $1200 and 3rd party premium premium Magnus will have 48 for $1500+.

BTW, both will be XBox on Windows.

That is a possibility but then I don't see what kind of customisation on the xbox handheld would make it that different from AMDs current Ryzen AI MAX plans either.

24 CU AT4 chiplet version will be used in every damn Windows handheld in 2028 IMO. Anything more is just too taxing on batteries and still give you plenty of beef upgrade from PS6HH Canis 16 CU for the required premium price point.

24 CU RDNA 5 should do well as 32 CU RDNA 3.5 in AI Max 385, and crush it in RT.

 

[Physiognomonics]

20% more bandwidth but also more than duble l2 cache

XBox One X had like double GPU cache too and with 50% more main memory bandwidth, and 50% more memory. Xbox One X, except for the Jaguar CPU, was a GPU/ memory beast more so than Magnus will be. But Magnus, IMO, will have a decisive CPU advantage against PS6, supposedly.

 

[adamsapple]

My favorite is.. " I have been a PS fan my whole life ......." stories

I like the ones which go "I've been a PC gamer for years..." too. Fun stories to read

20% more bandwidth but also more than duble l2 cache

Does that really have that much of an impact? In real world terms I mean.