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[StreetsofBeige]

Days Gone sold 8 million and Sony refused to greenlight DG2. Instead they made them work on a GAAS game that was cancelled. Now it seems they have them on another GAAS project.

8 million copies sold!

By the looks of it, Sony will only great light big budget SP games if it sells 10M+. The bottom threshold seems to be Ghosts of Tsushima which sold more than DG.

That's why they keep their key studios focusing on the same franchise over and over again. Getting a brand new big budget IP (like Intergalactic) is a tough slog to green light. They must think Intergalactic is the next huge IP. Other gens they were more lenient to approve big budget new IPs. But once an IP is strong, it's sequels, remasters and offshoot games (cancelled Factions, cancelled GOW GAAS, Sons of Sparta, Horizon Hunters, Horizon NC Soft game, all the LOU remasters and remakes etc....).

Really no different than when MS had their heavy hitters during 360 or Halo, Gears, Fable. And MS did the same thing.... Halo Wars, Gears tactics, cancelled Fable game, Fable card game. How many times has Gears been remastered or remade?

Games like MLB, Sons of Sparta, remaster X, etc... not included. So they'll fund money to these small budget games.

 

[CJ_75]

No, there aren't eight live service games cancelled at all.

The cancelled ones were TLOU Online, Bend, London Studio, Deviation.

"Many of these 'cancelled games' are just pitches that weren't greenlighted, so these projects never started production. So there wasn't any production/game to cancel. Pretty likely were just a powerpoint and maybe a prototype or a target video made by a very small team, there wasn't any game/production to cancel."

With the already released ones and the announced or known ones they'll have released 14 instead of 12. But very likely in around a year and a half or two more than originally planned.


They didn't close Firesprite. Firesprite never had any GaaS under production (other than the support job they did for Star Citizen before being acquired), they only had a Twisted Metal pitch in super early stages that never got greenlited, so never was under production, so never was any production/game to cancel.

Since 2021 they have been working in a dark horror narrative adventure, developed at the same time they developed Horizon CoM.

Oh right, they were just hanging out in a cafeteria all those years, telling knock-knock jokes. Eight projects cancelled, no matter what stage they were in. Definitely not just at a PowerPoint presentation stage. People were actually working at those studios.

 

[yurinka]

Oh right, they were just hanging out in a cafeteria all those years, telling knock-knock jokes. Eight projects cancelled, no matter what stage they were in. Definitely not just at a PowerPoint presentation stage. People were actually working at those studios.

No, 4 projects cancelled and 14 on track to be released. The other 4 never started, so couldn't be cancelled.

So far the progress is that having released 7 of them and having 3 more to be released pretty soon, they doubled their yearly first party revenue vs when they started and now 40% of it comes from GaaS.

Which gives a good powerpoint slide to showcase the progress.

 

[Chuck Berry]

Regarding Bluepoint from my working experience I find totally impossible that a top publisher would greenlight to lead a AAA MP GaaS to a support team specialized on remasters and remakes with no experience or staff related to leading AAA games, no experience or staff related to MP and no experience or related staff to GaaS.

Well this sounds exactly like what happened to Crystal Dynamics when they released The Avengers in 2020. Here you have a studio that was built on single player experiences for over a decade and some tard at the top brass at Squeenix thought it'd be a smashing idea to have them make one of the earliest examples of a AAA GAAS failure. Fortunately CD didn't get axed, but at the time it looked really, really bad and we were all thinking they were finished.

 

[mckmas8808]

This is the part where Microsoft somehow tops the idiocy here by announcing they're also closing another beloved studio.

How did you predict something like this?

 

[CJ_75]

No, 4 projects cancelled and 14 on track to be released. The other 4 never started, so couldn't be cancelled.

So far the progress is that having released 7 of them and having 3 more to be released pretty soon, they doubled their yearly first party revenue vs when they started and now 40% of it comes from GaaS.

Which gives a good powerpoint slide to showcase the progress.

Some bro from the internet, just like you are, mentioned 9 cancelled GAAS projects.

1. God of War live service game from Bluepoint (dev since 2022, cancelled Jan 2025)
2. sci-fi live service game from Bend (dev since around 2020, cancelled Jan 2025, screenshots were leaked back in Dec 2024)
3. Twisted Metal live service game from Firesprite (previously worked on by Lucid Games, moved to Firesprite before being cancelled in Feb 2024)
4. The Last of Us multiplayer live service game from Naughty Dog (dev since 2020, cancelled Dec 2023)
5. Spider-man live service game from Insomniac (dev since 2019 according to leaks, cancelled sometime in 2022?)
6. unknown live service game from Deviation (dev since 2021, cancelled May 2023, studio shut down March 2024)
7. unknown sci-fi live service game from First Strike (this could've been Deviation's game since they were a support studio and the news of the cancellation happened the same day that news broke of Deviation laying off 80% of their staff in May 2023, but nothing confirmed from what I know)
8. Operation Payback from Bungie (dev since 2022(?), cancelled back in Aug 2024, thought to be Destiny 3)
9. fantasy live service game from London (dev since 2022, cancelled Feb 2024, studio shut down afterwards)

But I am sure at Sony, they gave wonderful powerpoint presentations and had cake and soda afterwards.

 

[CrustyBritches]

By the looks of it, Sony will only great light big budget SP games if it sells 10M+. The bottom threshold seems to be Ghosts of Tsushima which sold more than DG.

That's why they keep their key studios focusing on the same franchise over and over again. Getting a brand new big budget IP (like Intergalactic) is a tough slog to green light. They must think Intergalactic is the next huge IP. Other gens they were more lenient to approve big budget new IPs. But once an IP is strong, it's sequels, remasters and offshoot games (cancelled Factions, cancelled GOW GAAS, Sons of Sparta, Horizon Hunters, Horizon NC Soft game, all the LOU remasters and remakes etc....).

Really no different than when MS had their heavy hitters during 360 or Halo, Gears, Fable. And MS did the same thing.... Halo Wars, Gears tactics, cancelled Fable game, Fable card game. How many times has Gears been remastered or remade?

Games like MLB, Sons of Sparta, remaster X, etc... not included. So they'll fund money to these small budget games.

So instead they put them on a GAAS game that was cancelled. How is that better than 8 million copies? What are the chances their current GAAS project will go down in flames, too?

Sony needs to accept they'll never create a Fortnite or Roblox. They already exist, in the same way that during the onset of the digital age the PS4 became the console of choice and MS had very little chance since people weren't migrating from their digital libraries. Same with EGS trying to break in against Steam. Too late. People are too invested already.

 

[CamHostage]

Well this sounds exactly like what happened to Crystal Dynamics when they released The Avengers in 2020. Here you have a studio that was built on single player experiences for over a decade and some tard at the top brass at Squeenix thought it'd be a smashing idea to have them make one of the earliest examples of a AAA GAAS failure.

Eh, there's something to analyze about all of the choices involved in the GAAS bubble, but the idea that the studios who fail are out of their depth because they have no idea how to make a multiplayer game is not that credible. Most of these studios made multiplayer games/modes back when the multi-game experience was prevalent, and the companies who have had hit GAAS games weren't necessarily known for just multiplayer hits before GAAS became a trend. (Also, experience in multiplayer has not been the key to success either, the GAAS graveyard is filled with studios who thought they knew what they were good at but failed, and even some GAAS tycoons have failed to launch a second GAAS.) Plus, the companies assembled for multiplayer experiences and successful at GAAS aren't out there available to contract a new one obviously because, by the nature of GAAS, they're still running their own GAAS.

GAAS is a business model and it's a content runway and it's a service standard. The mechanics of making a fun game are the easy part, and a studio with credible experience making enjoyable games in a variety of genres has probably as much chance as any at making a fortune in the GAAS market.

 

[TidusYuna]

What an absolutely stupid decision! Demon Souls remake was great, as was SotC and all they other remasters Blue point worked on. Was really looking forward to whatever Bluepoint was going to release.

 

[Karim]

Wat.

Here it is from our boy Hulst:

 

[WoodyStare]

How did you predict something like this?

I said in the other thread, at least I was half right

Seems par for the course at this point. I don't have exact examples, but it seems like in the past whenever their competitors announced something that put them in a negative light, Microsoft would always announce something soon afterwards that would somehow piss everyone off even more. It's the first thing that came to mind after my jaw hit the floor reading the Bluepoint news. You'd swear it's intentional.

 

[SNPlayen]

State of Dismay

 

[StreetsofBeige]

So instead they put them on a GAAS game that was cancelled. How is that better than 8 million copies? What are the chances their current GAAS project will go down in flames, too?

Sony needs to accept they'll never create a Fortnite or Roblox. They already exist, in the same way that during the onset of the digital age the PS4 became the console of choice and MS had very little chance since people weren't migrating from their digital libraries. Same with EGS trying to break in against Steam. Too late. People are too invested already.

Sony is actually in a good spot despite what it looks like. The company and gaming division are doing fine.

It's better for a company if the risk is worth doing. As for Fortnite, it's one of those things (like COD) where some companies can lay off and stick to their own lane. And some cant help but try to do their own shooter GAAS hoping they can chisel off a few slivers of gold. And gaming is one of those industries where studios cant help but see what others do and ride the fad. Other industries arent like this so much. You kind of stuck to your category.

But since gaming is digital and assumption is a studio of programmers sitting at a desk can make Game X, it means they can also make Game Y and every so often a smash hit comes out of nowhere. So the belief will always be there for any studio to hit the lottery. In other industries, if the best selling product at Walmart is Coke, bananas and diapers, you kind of stick to your lane and only let those companies that do that already battle it out. So if your company makes lawn mowers, you dont suddenly raise capital to bottle pop or grow a field of fruit. You stick to electrical products. And even then the electrical products you make might be skewed to certain kinds.

Sony gunning for GAAS is doable because the division makes endless 30% cuts and their SP games sell a ton. So they got cushion to go for GAAS knowing even if Bungie tanks, Concord tanks etc..... the division still rakes in the bucks. When you got a gun with 100 bullets on the bandolier, you can afford to miss shots knowing there's still 70 left. Then you pick up more ammo off the ground from dead players, so you're back to 100 anyway like nothing happened.

Their 30% cuts and key IPs like GOW, GT, LOU, Horizon, Spiderman, Ghosts (I might be missing some heavy hitters) give them a good first party cushion.

 

[Wishmaster92]

fucking idiots. It's insane this studio only had demon souls to show for this generation.

 

[yurinka]

Some bro from the internet, just like you are, mentioned 9 cancelled GAAS projects.

1. God of War live service game from Bluepoint (dev since 2022, cancelled Jan 2025)
2. sci-fi live service game from Bend (dev since around 2020, cancelled Jan 2025, screenshots were leaked back in Dec 2024)
3. Twisted Metal live service game from Firesprite (previously worked on by Lucid Games, moved to Firesprite before being cancelled in Feb 2024)
4. The Last of Us multiplayer live service game from Naughty Dog (dev since 2020, cancelled Dec 2023)
5. Spider-man live service game from Insomniac (dev since 2019 according to leaks, cancelled sometime in 2022?)
6. unknown live service game from Deviation (dev since 2021, cancelled May 2023, studio shut down March 2024)
7. unknown sci-fi live service game from First Strike (this could've been Deviation's game since they were a support studio and the news of the cancellation happened the same day that news broke of Deviation laying off 80% of their staff in May 2023, but nothing confirmed from what I know)
8. Operation Payback from Bungie (dev since 2022(?), cancelled back in Aug 2024, thought to be Destiny 3)
9. fantasy live service game from London (dev since 2022, cancelled Feb 2024, studio shut down afterwards)

But I am sure at Sony, they gave wonderful powerpoint presentations and had cake and soda afterwards.

• As I said there are 4 games that got cancelled: 2, 4, 6 and 9
• There are 4 more that couldn't get cancelled because their production never started:
  • 3 and 5 weren't greenlighted so couldn't be cancelled because never started. They didn't have a production team working on it, just a few guys making a pitch with a production pitch deck powerpoint proposing stuff like the game concept, resource allocation, roadmaps and so on, some concept art, maybe a concept video or maybe a small prototype
  • 7 is the same one than 6, wasn't a separate game

8 is a rumored game that we don't know if it really existed, in case it existed what really was and if in case it was Destiny 3 maybe what they did it was putting it on hold to restart it later because wanted to work on Destiny 2 for longer than initially expected.

When Bungie got restructured, they said Bungie was going to focus on Marathon and Destiny going forward. Regarding Destiny they had Destiny 2 and Destiny Rising in the works. Back then they know Destiny 2 was very old and was starting to sunset so that won't last for long. And if Destiny is going to be one of their focus, obviously they weren't going to rely on a mobile game made by Netease.

Pretty likely were going to give some extra resources to push Destiny 2 a bit more for a while, were going to give Marathon some extra resources for the delay and ensure a good enough launch and once Marathon is released they'll keep a smaller team for the post launch content and would move some Marathon people plus the Destiny 2 people to whatever the next (made in Bungie) Destiny game would be, which could be called Destiny 3 or something else.

Since obviously Destiny 2 will be in low numbers, and once they stop updating it will decrease faster (happens with all GaaS when they sunset), they'll have -if things go as planned- Marathon making money and will have time to make their next project.

But would have a half cooked project on hold they can resume or restart. So that 8 would be a good fit to use it there. Pretty likely may have existed and yes, pretty likely was Destiny 3. Because obviously the main reason Sony got Bungie was for Destiny and knowing Destiny 2 was going to die soon, very likely they have Destiny 3 signed as part of the acquisition.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sony is actually in a good spot despite what it looks like. The company and gaming division are doing fine.

It's better for a company if the risk is worth doing. As for Fortnite, it's one of those things (like COD) where some companies can lay off and stick to their own lane. And some cant help but try to do their own shooter GAAS hoping they can chisel off a few slivers of gold. And gaming is one of those industries where studios cant help but see what others do and ride the fad. Other industries arent like this so much. You kind of stuck to your category.

But since gaming is digital and assumption is a studio of programmers sitting at a desk can make Game X, it means they can also make Game Y and every so often a smash hit comes out of nowhere. So the belief will always be there for any studio to hit the lottery. In other industries, if the best selling product at Walmart is Coke, bananas and diapers, you kind of stick to your lane and only let those companies that do that already battle it out. So if your company makes lawn mowers, you dont suddenly raise capital to bottle pop or grow a field of fruit. You stick to electrical products. And even then the electrical products you make might be skewed to certain kinds.

Sony gunning for GAAS is doable because the division makes endless 30% cuts and their SP games sell a ton. So they got cushion to go for GAAS knowing even if Bungie tanks, Concord tanks etc..... the division still rakes in the bucks. When you got a gun with 100 bullets on the bandolier, you can afford to miss shots knowing there's still 70 left. Then you pick up more ammo off the ground from dead players, so you're back to 100 anyway like nothing happened.

Their 30% cuts and key IPs like GOW, GT, LOU, Horizon, Spiderman, Ghosts (I might be missing some heavy hitters) give them a good first party cushion.

Not sure why more here don't seem to understand that. Even though I hate the death of BluePoint myself. Facts are still facts.

 

[Angelcurio]

According to Sony the Demon's Souls remake sold 1.4M in the first around 10 months.

Which isn't stellar, and same applies to previous remakes/remasters. Their remakes and remasters had great reviews and quality but not great sales.

And Bluepoint, and not Sony, was the want who didn't want to continue making remakes and remasters, and instead evolve to work in new games as support team. Sony agreed, pretty likely saw potential there and they worked in GoWR.

They must have worked supporting other stuff since 2022 because didn't have the staff with the roles needed to lead a AAA project and Sony called them support studio.


Bluepoint didn't want to make ports, remasters or remakes. The Demon's Souls remake as far as we know it sold around 1.8M copies, maybe ended selling around 2.5M.

Horizon sold 10 times that. The sequel was launch aligned doing the same numbers until they did put it in PS+. Horizon is Sony's best selling game ever.

You are not taking into consideration that Demon Souls remake was a launch title for the PS5, a console with "Zero" install base. Now there are more than 80 million consoles out there, which is a totally different scenario.

A PC port of Demon Souls would have been a decent way to test the waters and see how the current market would receive the game.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

Not sure why more here don't seem to understand that. Even though I hate the death of BluePoint myself. Facts are still facts.

Yep. Herman is Dutch. Only money counts. It does not matter if you cure cancer or paint the Mona Lisa. Stop thinking literally anything else in the universe matters

 

[yurinka]

You are not taking into consideration that Demon Souls remake was a launch title for the PS5, a console with "Zero" install base. Now there are more than 80 million consoles out there, which is a totally different scenario.

Yes

A PC port of Demon Souls would have been a decent way to test the waters and see how the current market would receive the game.

I agree that Demon's Souls -and a Bloodborne remaster/remake- have potential to sell more in PC than in PS5. And I'm 100% Sony know its.

We know Miyazaki didn't want to release a Bloodborne remaster this generation. Regarding the Demon's Souls remake, he said the likes it but I have no idea if he ever said something about a potential PC port and may even be the two best selling Sony SP games on PC.

I think they're working to release a Bloodborne Remake as launch/launchwindow PS6 game. Regarding PC, I think this and Demon's Souls may be PC PSN Store exclusive in PC for once they release it.

This, or they are waiting for an Kadokawa/FromSoft acquisition announcement, or maybe are waitig to match its released with the one of an anime/tv show/movie, or something like that.

Maybe Fromsoft is also working in Demon's Souls 2 in addition to Bloodborne II and are saving the PC ports to release them close to them.

Because other than this, I think it's ok for Sony to wait for Miyazaki to release the Bloodborne Remake in PS6 instead of making a PS5 remaster and release then the PC port. But regarding Demon's Souls? I don't see the excuse, something rare is happening with its PC port.

Maybe what happens is that the Bluepoint engine is a nightmare to port it to PC (this could also explain the lack of Nathan Drake Collection in PC another rare miss, but could also be explained because very likely they plan to remake them soonish).

 

[VeganElduderino]

I am so fucking glad I ditched Sony for PC gaming this gen. Fuck 'em.

Yeah! I did the same and I really don't regret it, ill say it again, worse generation of consoles...

 

[Raven117]

This is the worst generation of consoles since before the NES

 

[Topher]

Sorry for crossing the streams

 

[Topher]

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Awful news. Bluepoint of old will certainly be missed. Hugging my copies of SotC/Ico and SotC 2018.

Bluepoint wanted to make an original game, that was part of the reason they joined Playstation to begin with. Did they really aspire to make God of War live service? I doubt it. This reeks of mismanagement, I'd be interested to hear the real story of what happened someday.

 

[RJMacready73]

They made two insanely beautiful games that played extremely well and where no doubt an incredibly talented pool of Devs.. so why in the fuck would you shut them down when they could've been popping out remakes of Playstation classics??

 

[TigerBrown]

Sad state of the industry. We went from ps2 days "A glimpse of the future" to ps4 "For the players" and one could feel the passion and commitment to evolve the media.

Nowadays the only passion that is left, is centered around creating platforms within platforms to extract maximum ammount of money, at best on a monthly basis. Sony is probably busy brainstorming ps6 rental plans and marketing spins, about how this is actually great for consumers.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Anyone criticizing BP Studio for not putting out a game in 5 years is also forgetting they arent an indie studio, they were told what to do and what to make. I remember reading ages ago how they wanted to make an original title but obviosuly if SONY was gonna give you the budget, you make what they want you to make. And the failed live service game, Im pretty sure they didnt want to make that either.

Speaking of how insane it is that a studio hasnt released a game in 5 years: Naughty Dog (6 years), Rockstar Games (LOL), Quantic Dream (7 years), Bend Studio (7 years), Media Molecule (5 years), etc. And no, I dont consider a remaster a new game for this gen as you dont need 500 people working on high res textures.

 

[DinoD]

Nothing can hide the fact that Sony terribly mismanaged their studios this generation. It will become a case study.

 

[John Wick]

Why don't they fire the clowns who were actively promoting gaas at Sony?
This is terrible and should be called out by every Sony fan. Hulst needs to go and fast.

 

[yogaflame]

I hate Hermen to the bone. Ryan and Hermen gaas obsession killed many years of development that should had been great exclusives and killed great teams like Blue point. And after concord flop , Hermen and Sony continues to be stubborn with those gaas trash like marathon and that ugly horizon gathering. I hope he be fired and follows Phil to the Cancun.

 

[hyperbertha]

It isn't a coincidence.

Both the studios and Sony have the market numbers and saw that the big majority of the game revenue and gameplay time is spent in GaaS, and the percentage vs non-GaaS kept growing every year, and that the percent of money and playtime spent in games released in previous years vs games released this year keeps incresing too. Since aprox. the start of the PS4 generation or before.

They also saw that each generation budgets highly increase but the revenue of the AAA SP games didn't increase at the same pace, reaching a point where the majority of SP AAA without DLCs limited to a console wouldn't be profitable this generation, and even less in the next one. So they needed additional revenue sources, which meant PC ports and more GaaS.

Budget skyrocketing also meant that instead of releasing AAA games with both SP modes and MP mores, would make more sense to split them into two diffeent games, and in modern times MP games mostly means GaaS.

At the same time, Sony saw they were too focus in a specific type of game and wanted to diversify the genres covered by first party and bet more in multiplayer. So combining everything both Sony and the studios decide that need to follow that strategy that without having a name they already started several years before.

Having said said so, most of the Sony games already were had GaaS/MP expertise: Marathon, Destiny, Firewalk, Team LFG, Haven, Deviation, Bad Robot have top GaaS pedigree. MLB, Destiny, Helldivers and GT already were GaaS before this push. Horizon Online and TLOU were the MP teams doing a MP game. Bend, Horizon, TLOU were implementing the MP mode they wanted to implement the MP mode they wanted to include in their previous game but couldn't. London Studio (who were very successful with PS Home, a very different GaaS) were making their dream game that always wanted to make, and continued working in the project after they shut down the game and the studio. Firewall Ultra and Midnight Murder Club were small weird experiments form MP experienced teams. Firesprite pitched a Twisted Metal game but it didn't get the greenlight, so never started production.

Nobody was forced to do anything.

You're telling me, the first 5 studios in this list, all of which were renownked for singleplayer games, just up and decided to waste YEARS on gaas, just because they arrived at the conclusion that single player was untenable, and they needed gaas to make revenue? Do you have any evidence for that claim?

 

[darrylgorn]

You're telling me, the first 5 studios in this list, all of which were renownked for singleplayer games, just up and decided to waste YEARS on gaas, just because they arrived at the conclusion that single player was untenable, and they needed gaas to make revenue? Do you have any evidence for that claim?

Concord and Highguard.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Are they just looking at Microsoft and trying to out retard them?

 

[The artful mincer]

You're telling me, the first 5 studios in this list, all of which were renownked for singleplayer games, just up and decided to waste YEARS on gaas, just because they arrived at the conclusion that single player was untenable, and they needed gaas to make revenue? Do you have any evidence for that claim?

Jesus Sony Bend is probably the biggest mismanagement on that list.

7 years and not a trailer to show. Whatever you think of Days Gone it was a Commercial Success sequel was a no brainer.

 

[simpatico]

They did have it coming though.

 

[Physiognomonics]

I am predicting right now. If Duskbloods is a hit for Nintendo then The accountants at Sony will try to make a Bloodborne GAAS game.

I know that post is from 10,000 comments ago, but it's actually IMO, Layden, who started the downfall. I was still in the industry when he came along (though I left shortly after), and the general thought was pretty meh on this dude during his tenure from who I talked with.

He ushered in a lot of... Controversial? Changes that ended up long term being detrimental IMO.

A lot of the problems of modern Sony are rooted in that time frame, just didn't bloom instantly.

And yes, Hulst, from a studio I formerly knew some absolutely AMAZING people at, has been a pretty huge disappointment. But GG is a shell of who they once were, and Hulst seems to be as well, unfortunately.

Now I better understand when Layden was saying at the end of PS4 gen (or after he left) to change the way they were doing things as their strategy was too risky and stuff.

But at the end of PS4 they made records profits from their first party games (more so than now!). They were not happy doing those billions with plenty of AA risky projects. They wanted one big fornite game making those billions instead. They had a working formula, talented teams and people that could make those risks and succeed. So slowly they get rid of all those small risky studios to focus on big AAA teams.