tmlDan
Member
I completely agree with this, its actually a very small subset of a few thousand that are mad and its obvious from the lack of game sales in BP's portfolio
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Sony shuts down Bluepoint Studios
- Thread starter Hero_Select
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MiguelItUp
Member
Something I will never, ever understand.
They had the absolute best team to do it, and wonderfully. (I know some people have their own opinions on the artistic changes in the Demon's Souls remake, but that's neither here nor there. The game looked and performed beautifully.)
Emmy Ator Best
Member
They were involved enough for every Bluepoint developer to be included in the credits
yurinka
Member
It isn't a coincidence.
Both the studios and Sony have the market numbers and saw that the big majority of the game revenue and gameplay time is spent in GaaS, and the percentage vs non-GaaS kept growing every year, and that the percent of money and playtime spent in games released in previous years vs games released this year keeps incresing too. Since aprox. the start of the PS4 generation or before.
They also saw that each generation budgets highly increase but the revenue of the AAA SP games didn't increase at the same pace, reaching a point where the majority of SP AAA without DLCs limited to a console wouldn't be profitable this generation, and even less in the next one. So they needed additional revenue sources, which meant PC ports and more GaaS.
Budget skyrocketing also meant that instead of releasing AAA games with both SP modes and MP mores, would make more sense to split them into two diffeent games, and in modern times MP games mostly means GaaS.
At the same time, Sony saw they were too focus in a specific type of game and wanted to diversify the genres covered by first party and bet more in multiplayer. So combining everything both Sony and the studios decide that need to follow that strategy that without having a name they already started several years before.
Having said said so, most of the Sony games already were had GaaS/MP expertise: Marathon, Destiny, Firewalk, Team LFG, Haven, Deviation, Bad Robot have top GaaS pedigree. MLB, Destiny, Helldivers and GT already were GaaS before this push. Horizon Online and TLOU were the MP teams doing a MP game. Bend, Horizon, TLOU were implementing the MP mode they wanted to implement the MP mode they wanted to include in their previous game but couldn't. London Studio (who were very successful with PS Home, a very different GaaS) were making their dream game that always wanted to make, and continued working in the project after they shut down the game and the studio. Firewall Ultra and Midnight Murder Club were small weird experiments form MP experienced teams. Firesprite pitched a Twisted Metal game but it didn't get the greenlight, so never started production.
Nobody was forced to do anything.
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simpatico
Gold Member
Herman also doesn't just fund a full time studio without being on board with what they're making. There isn't a developer on earth who could make a GOW GaaS that anyone would play.
Bluepoint was mismanaged. If a coach ran Shaq at point guard, and then cut him for being a bad point guard, that's mismanagement.
You know everyone is at the Haven office today working on Jade Raymond's Fairgame$ right? All 200+ full time employees. I reckon yall can expect an $80 bump on the PS6 disc drive to help them recoup those costs.
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StueyDuck
Member
Im sure it will come
FalconPunch
Member
Wake me up when they make one good game....
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
I can't prove it like none of you can prove he does.
What I can point to is the idea that a non creative assigning projects to creative teams would lead to extreme inefficiency. Nobody knows what a studio is capable of better than a studio lead.
There's this silly narrative that Bluepoint wasn't set up to make a GAAS game. As if Darth Hulst gets into a car, calls it a boat, and drives into a lake. It's pure fiction. You guys want to paint Hulst as incompetent because the alternative (reality) scares you.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
This is just wrong.
Everyone would play a GoW GAAS title if it was fun. Multi-player GAAS gamers don't care about IP. Nobody plays ARC Raiders because of the lore.
hououinkyouma00
Member
Couldn't have said this any better if I tried.
Everybody talking in absolutes is talking out of their ass. The only people that know the truth aren't going to be talking about it publicly.
Cakeboxer
Member
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
There is no "obvious" in any of this.
How is that fair, man? Such an unhealthy attitude.
Why do so many people here want so many studios to fail? You complain about studios folding while calling for them to fold all the time.
The industry is so brutal, famously so, and you want it to be more brutal. You want devs to suffer. You want teams to be broken up. You want creativity and hard work to be wasted.
What if Marathon is a good game? What if it just has bad luck? Do you not care? Why would you want the efforts of all those people to be for nought? Why should they be held responsible for HQ's decisions?
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Topher
Identifies as young
He was replying to
ReasonBeing
who was saying he can't prove what he is saying and he can't. I pointed that out earlier as well but he keeps making assertions as if they were facts. If we going to start talking about people talking out of their ass, it starts there.
yurinka
Member
The studios do what the bosses of the studio want, and their bosses publicly said want they wanted: to stop working in remasters and remakes after Demon's Souls and to evolve to work in new games. Later we saw in Sony slides and in the credits of Ragnarok that it was continuing as support team.
I went to check the Linkedin of all their members (did it evey few years), and saw they never had people in positions of leading games or in GaaS positions. Which means they never leaded any GaaS and didn't have the intention of doing so.
I'm an experienced dev who worked in a AAA publisher in a position where even went personally to the HQ to get the final approval of a pitch. And have many friends and coworkers who have been in both sides of these meeting in many companies, including Sony (as I remember 3 studios, not Bluepoint).
The pitch can be great, but they won't spend hundreds of millions to let a support team with no experience leading AAA games, no experience in MP games and no experience in GaaS to lead a AAA MP GaaS title and even less using one of their top IPs. They aren't stupid, and there's a reason of why some slides of the pitch are about the team who will work on it. Everything in the pitch must be very solid to get a greenlight, because even only greenlighting projects that look great on paper later there are many things that can't be predicted or controllerd and many projects end getting cancelled or tanking.
This doesn't only apply for AAA, also to AA or mobile. You can't go to pitch a project to a publisher, HQ of the company or investor if you don't have an experienced team on somewhat that type of projects that provides confidence to who is going to put and risk a lot of money on the table.
You can go -as I did- to the game credits that the entire Bluepoint staff they had back then worked in GoWR, and in their personal Linkedin page to see they did so since they completed their job in Demon's Souls (those who already were in the studio) until they completed their job almost at the release of the game.
Miyazaki publicly said he didn't want to make a Bloodborne Remaster this gen, and that would make sense to wait for the next gen to make it. Bluepoint publicly said they didn't want to make more remasters or remakes after Demon's Souls.
What is Hermen supposed to do, to go there and punch them in the face?
Yes, people would play a fun GoW GaaS. But for that you need a talented and experienced team regarding 4 different topics and Bluepoint -despite being the GOAT of remasters and remakes- doesn't check any of them:
- To lead new AAA games
- To make MP games
- to make GaaS games
- To have people in the studio in the job roles need to make the specific areas of tne 3 previous points
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simpatico
Gold Member
Which publishers do you invest in?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It's obvious that a lot of people need to turn Herman Hulst into a cartoonish incompetent so that they can protect their preferred narrative.
I don't have to do that.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He's spitting out more trash the good, so....
Have another Horizon spin-off or 12, I guess.
reinking
Gold Member
I'm good with not making a statement. I am not happy about how things with BP turned out but I do not feel I need to make a political statement about it. This whole movement to downvote games or trailers does nothing but bring more harm to other studios and the industry. Gamers as a whole need to stop this nonsense of sabotaging games and studios to make some kind of irrelevant statement. A games reviews and interest should stand on its own merit.
Jesb
Member
I think part of the downfall was that bluepoint was unable to transition into more than a remake studio.
They have said in the past they want to be more than just a remake studio. I imagine part of Sony's discussions when acquiring them probably was them telling them they would get that opportunity. Seems like they weren't able to pass that first test of making something other than a remake. That game gets cancelled and realization sets in at Sony that they can't be more than a remake studio and doesn't see the need for them long term.
Bluepoints mistake may of been to venture outside of what there great at. When they were acquired by Sony part of those meetings should've been to tell Sony that if they are acquired that the focus doesn't change and they continue exclusively as a remake studio. This didn't happen. Instead bluepoint embraced doing something new, they failed the test and are now history.
They have said in the past they want to be more than just a remake studio. I imagine part of Sony's discussions when acquiring them probably was them telling them they would get that opportunity. Seems like they weren't able to pass that first test of making something other than a remake. That game gets cancelled and realization sets in at Sony that they can't be more than a remake studio and doesn't see the need for them long term.
Bluepoints mistake may of been to venture outside of what there great at. When they were acquired by Sony part of those meetings should've been to tell Sony that if they are acquired that the focus doesn't change and they continue exclusively as a remake studio. This didn't happen. Instead bluepoint embraced doing something new, they failed the test and are now history.
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MiguelItUp
Member
Unsure of how I missed that Miyazaki quote, I just know he loves Bloodborne. Didn't know that about Bluepoint either.
I mean, clearly not. But a live service God of War game was not the answer.
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Reavr
Member
The better question is, why acquire them?
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
The best player in baseball gets on base 38% of the time. Imagine a fan being like "I saw him strike out last Thursday!"
Hulsts performance is measured on his body of work, not the small handful of games you cherry pick.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
The worst first party PS gen so far compared to PS3 and PS4.
That's not cherry picking.
PeteBull
Member
Let him fucking play that new horizon game every day 5h straight from launch till shutdown instead, could be even a month of punishment before japanese HQ decides about cutting the cord, him going out ez quick was isnt enough, he needs to sufferSomeone make Hermen sleep with the fish...
yurinka
Member
Miyazaki loved Blupoint's job in the remake and mentioned that would like to work with them. And regarding Bloodborne sequel mentioned they were busy, or that Sony was busy or were the ones who should decide it.
I assume his plan (and Sony's) is to let FromSoft release all the stuff they had signed before, then launch the Bloodborne Remake at PS6 launch or launch window, and somewhere later the sequel.
Hermen also mentioned to be working with FromSoft to do with them stuff not limited to gamin. Meaning very likely they're also working in some anime/tv show/movie adaptation of FromSoft IPs, I assume including Bloodborne.
So maybe they also want to release the remake or sequel somewhat near some of these adaptations.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
More I think about it, it's bizzare that Sony didn't want Duskbloods.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Which makes this stink even more.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
If this were accurate, everybody at Bluepoint would have jumped ship in the last 5 years.
It also requires Herman Hulst to be a cartoon villain who doesn't know how games are developed.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Today's market is not the same market as the ones you're referring to. Hulst is navigating the modern market.
yurinka
Member
Not the case, we know that as of 2022 (just before including it in PS+) it only sold around 1.8M.
Not the case, we know Bluepoint didn't have the people needed to lead AAA games, to make MP games or to make GaaS games. So wouldn't send the pitch and Sony wouldn't greenlight it.
And we know Sony doesn't force teams do stuff they don't want, the studios are the ones who pitch their projects to Sony.
And well, GaaS is dominating the market and having only released the half they plan to release, GaaS already make over 40% of their first party revenue.
So Sony wouldn't say no to a great GoW GaaS pitch if the pitch make sense (one leaded by Bluepoint wouldn't).
- Seeing potential on them as support team, and eventually slowly growing after supporting a few new games to leading new games
- Bluepoint didn't want to make more remasters or remakes
- To save a long time partner from closure in case they were in bad finantial position before acquisition getting talented people for a very cheap price (I have no idea if it was the case, but is more common than seems)
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They're chasing a unicorn.
The list of third-party games that are very successful on the "old market" formula shows that.
There is more success in releasing those same types of games, than outright cancelling all those GaaS failures that never even made it to market. Then there was the Concord abomination.
That is zero return on investment versus any kind of return. And here we are, their core pillar studios having massive delays due to wasted time on GaaS that never came to fruition.
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MiguelItUp
Member
Yeah, I do remember reading that. Yeah, it got to the point where it'd just be safe to assume such a thing wouldn't exist until PS6.
I'd assume so. Regardless, I just think there were plenty of other avenues that would've allowed Bluepoint to flourish. I just selfishly wish it were the things I want, lmao.
Moondoggy
Member
Sony Quietly Shut Down Bloodborne Remake in March 2025
ShadPS4 emulation it is then, fuck you Sony, I'm still gonna play it on PC anyways and now I'm not giving you a dime to do it.
ShadPS4 emulation it is then, fuck you Sony, I'm still gonna play it on PC anyways and now I'm not giving you a dime to do it.
yurinka
Member
There's also the possibility that he said he wanted to wait until PS6 because he knew that when he said so he already had signed and in the works Elden Ring, Elden Ring Nighteign, Armored Core 6 or Duskbloods. So knew they wouldn't be able to have it to at least PS6.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Gamers shrug at them but keep buying them and asking for more.
It was also a launch game on a very supply constrained console. My guess is that it has sold decently over time. It's still one of the best looking games on the system.
Well, Sony knew that when they bought them. this isnt like buying Haven because of Jade Raymond's smile
It's absolutely impossible to know what happens behind the scenes but the corporate guys make it clear to the studios what is more likely to get approved as a pitch versus less approved. It seems in that time frame Sonywas like "if it's not a sequel to a prestige game that sold a ton, it better be a gaas"
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Pedro Motta
Gold Member
Hahaha the comments in this post are brutal.
Topher
Identifies as young
Eh....that was a indie project, not official remake. That was never going to fly
Hyper_hyper
Member
You can see in end credits
reinking
Gold Member
I was wondering what the connection was. I'm glad it turned out to be what I thought, instead of me just being too dumb to understand.
0neAnd0nly
Member
I know that post is from 10,000 comments ago, but it's actually IMO, Layden, who started the downfall. I was still in the industry when he came along (though I left shortly after), and the general thought was pretty meh on this dude during his tenure from who I talked with.
He ushered in a lot of... Controversial? Changes that ended up long term being detrimental IMO.
A lot of the problems of modern Sony are rooted in that time frame, just didn't bloom instantly.
And yes, Hulst, from a studio I formerly knew some absolutely AMAZING people at, has been a pretty huge disappointment. But GG is a shell of who they once were, and Hulst seems to be as well, unfortunately.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Ah, a fan project.
I can imagine this headline giving many users here a mini heart-attack, lol.
Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
I think this is all subjective and definitely depends on which lense you're looking through. On the surface I can think of the backwards compatibility scheme, that as a consumer I really liked and have him credit for, but I'm not sure other than that what he has done that can be deemed a success by anyone, especially from a commercial perspective.
Hulst is hard to judge, probably because it's so hard with Sony too establish which leader was responsible for which decisions and when. I understand why people are upset with what happened to Bluepoint, but I imagine Hulst is constantly under pressure to maximise profit, and keeping a studio that is largely a (great) remaster studio and taking on all the risk when they do otherwise (we don't know if it was them not wanting to make remasters or Sony making them stop) doesn't make financial sense of there is no output.
It's a shame all around and it's the people that had least to do with any of these decisions that suffer.
saintjules
Gold Member
Nevermind.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
This is from Gemini. Is it accurate?
Seems like this reddit post compiling the list is the source:
Esca
Member
Another things I didn't get is, song announces God of war trilogy remake and doesn't give it to bluepoint who specializes in remakes. Also could of had them remake one of their dead franchises to test the waters of making a new game to revitalizing the franchise.
Forcing them to make gow gass is full retard. Should of let them do a warhawk(PS3 one) gass. The game is set up nicely for gass. Lots of vehicles, your character, weapons would make for lots of skins to sell and they could of made the game circle around a large campaign to progress forward like helldiver's 2 while playing matches etc. So much potential just sitting there and I honestly think it would had been pretty popular
Forcing them to make gow gass is full retard. Should of let them do a warhawk(PS3 one) gass. The game is set up nicely for gass. Lots of vehicles, your character, weapons would make for lots of skins to sell and they could of made the game circle around a large campaign to progress forward like helldiver's 2 while playing matches etc. So much potential just sitting there and I honestly think it would had been pretty popular
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