Support NeoGAF

[Toots]

Is it me or dokev looks better than crimson graphically??

Might be more because Crimson is releasing in 2 weeks and they have to show the downgraded version that will effectively run on consoles, whereas Dokev is still 2 years away from now so they can still show bullshit target render "gameplay" vids

 

[Teslerum]

Preset E is older than .dll file RE9 uses. I have no idea why game defaults to D.

Actually most games default to D with RR (Cyberpunk does too for example). Yes, it doesn't make sense. E is clearly superior on average.

Well i did it anyway, for both rr and dlss, i guess it can't hurt, since swapper doesn't let me change profile, i can only do it from inspector (i dont have the nvidia app).

Don't use E for SuperResolution. Profile E on SR and Profile E on RR are two different things.

Unless I misunderstood you, in which case nevermind.

 

[GymWolf]

Might be more because Crimson is releasing in 2 weeks and they have to show the downgraded version that will effectively run on consoles, whereas Dokev is still 2 years away from now so they can still show bullshit target render "gameplay" vids

Crimson always looked rough in some aspects even in the reveal tho.

I think it's more because dokew has a pixar artstyle so if you see some cartoony rocks and models, it doesn't feel as out of place as crimson who is trying a realistic artstyle.

 

[Xtib81]

I remember when Yotei released i found the vistas more beautiful than Assassin creed Shadows' ones.
There was something about the sense of scale and the foliage from far that looked really great. The autumn region for exemple is beautiful. Or the top of Mount Yotei.
But then again every region is quite small, without much to do, and very basic level design. And some of the gameplay choices were mindboggingly stupid. Not having a weather changing option when there was one before is the best exemple of this decline.
Yotei was truly a step back from Tsushima in every aspect.

Yeah, the vistas are great and they have massively improved draw distance. But textures, assets and lightning haven't much improved since Tsushima.

 

[GymWolf]

Actually most games default to D with RR. Yes, it doesn't make sense. E is clearly superior in most cases.

Don't use E for SuperResolution. Profile E on SR and Profile E on RR are two different things.

Unless I misunderstood you, in which case nevermind.

I was using profile e for rr and profile m for dlss, yeah i know they are different things.

 

[Pokedot]

Just tried a few UE5, Anvil and Snowdrops games to see where they land performance wise when running at native resolutions. My card is a 5080 which is around 13% faster than the 7900xtx used in Crimson Desert's native 4k 60 fps benchmark.

- MGS3 - 45 fps. Cant use FSR with native upscaling so had to use DLAA which has its own cost. also had hardware ray tracing enabled in the config files.
- Mafia - 43 fps native 4k fsr.
- Robocop - Easy native 4k 60 fps with dlaa with around 20% of the gpu left. didnt bother uncapping. Probably because its an older game that wasnt pushing the gpus a lot. Still looks fantastic though. Some new gifs below.
- Star Wars Outlaws - 37 fps native 4k dlaa. Didnt bother enabling path tracing.
- Avatar - 41 fps native 4k dlaa
- AC Shadows - 40 fps native 4k dlaa
- Cyberpunk - 30 fps native 4k dlaa (no path tracing)
- kingdom Come 2 - 68 fps native 4k dlaa

So basically Crimson Desert's engine is around 50% more performant than UE5, RED engine Anvil and Snowdrop. It shares the same performance profile of Kingdom Come 2, which is a very handsome looking game that uses software based RTGI. Could be they are using a slightly less intensive form of ray tracing, and are skipping on virtualized geometry to gain some more performance.

It IS kinda funny to see all these high end games all have virtually the same performance profile. Almost as if next gen graphics demand next gen specs.

Not an apples to apples comparison. We don't know what settings you used for each game. Was Cyberpunk on ultra settings? That game has more stuff going on considering it's rendering a city and ray tracing will be heavy b/c there are a ton of light sources in Night City. We do know the Digital Foundry footage of Crimson Desert didn't have everything on max, so Pearl Abyss used a combination of settings to try and hit that 60FPS target.

 

[Abysse]

Is it me or dokev looks better than crimson graphically?? Maybe because they are not chasing realism but a more pixar artstyle.

You have just confirmed what I have always suspected, based on the perception of the average player, that more colorful games tend to be more beautiful, regardless of whether this is true or not. It is no wonder that many consider Yotei or the recently announced Pokémon to be the pinnacle of graphics.

 

[SlimySnake]

Not an apples to apples comparison. We don't even know what settings you used for each game. Was Cyberpunk on ultra settings? That game has more stuff going on considering it's rendering a city and ray tracing will be heavy b/c there are a ton of light sources in Night City. We do know the Digital Foundry footage of Crimson Desert didn't have everything on max, so Pearl Abyss used a combination of settings to try and hit that 60FPS target.

I used ultra settings in each game. No path tracing because that's what df said pearl Abyss used. They have a cinematic preset that they didn't use for this benchmark , but every setting was ultra.

And of course its apples to oranges. We don't have the same game running on two engines. We can never directly compare the two. Every game has a different graphics load, different settings and features. But at the same time, if you look at all these games that are pushing Next Gen visuals, they all come in around the same performance profile. That's because on consoles they all target 1440p 30 fps as the lowest common denominator. The PCs then scale up from there. Crimson desert is likely doing 1440p 60 fps so it will be interesting to see just how there got there.

 

[GymWolf]

You have just confirmed what I have always suspected, based on the perception of the average player, that more colorful games tend to be more beautiful, regardless of whether this is true or not. It is no wonder that many consider Yotei or the recently announced Pokémon to be the pinnacle of graphics.

I think i explained why i think this looks better, because they are not going for realism but a more pixar style, which is far easier to ahcieve than photorealism.
also i'm just judgying from 2 gifs that notoriously make most games look like cg.


Crimson is very colorful aswell.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think i explained why i think this looks better, because they are not going for realism but a more pixar style.
also i'm just judgying from 2 gifs that notoriously make most games look like cg.


Crimson is very colorful aswell.

It looks better because its using high quality lighting, textures, assets and foliage. Trees are a generation apart. Your eyes aren't deceiving you. Its not that gifs. The game simply looks better.

 

[Jam Dingo]

You have just confirmed what I have always suspected, based on the perception of the average player, that more colorful games tend to be more beautiful, regardless of whether this is true or not. It is no wonder that many consider Yotei or the recently announced Pokémon to be the pinnacle of graphics.

I think it's more complicated than that. I think it's easier for vibrant, cartoony, visuals to look good, but harder for them to receive proper recognition once you pass a certain fidelity.

I think that's why Ratchet & Clank has been underrated all gen, despite probably being the most thoroughly next gen game on console, even now. If you look at somewhere like Twitter when they discuss graphics in general, you'll barely see it mentioned. It'll all be about (imo) less impressive but realistic graphics like Death Stranding 2, or even Yotei.

 

[GymWolf]

I think it's more complicated than that. I think it's easier for vibrant, cartoony, visuals to look good, but harder for them to receive proper recognition once you pass a certain fidelity.

I think that's why Ratchet & Clank has been underrated all gen, despite probably being the most thoroughly next gen game on console, even now. If you look at somewhere like Twitter when they discuss graphics in general, you'll barely see it mentioned. It'll all be about (imo) less impressive but realistic graphics like Death Stranding 2, or even Yotei.

I agree that SOME PARTS of rift apart like the robot cantina are top tier stuff and we praised that multiple times in here.

The game also has some areas that look pretty meh, it's not as a complete package as some other games.

But the highs are very high.

And yeah it definitely look better than both yotei and ds2.

 

[GymWolf]

It looks better because its using high quality lighting, textures, assets and foliage. Trees are a generation apart. Your eyes aren't deceiving you. Its not that gifs. The game simply looks better.

I need to rewatch the trailer then, because it's hard to notice all that stuff in 2 tiny gif.

I still remain of the opinion that aiming for pixar style is easier than going for photorealism.

this stuff would not fly in a realistic game

 

[Bojji]

I used ultra settings in each game. No path tracing because that's what df said pearl Abyss used. They have a cinematic preset that they didn't use for this benchmark , but every setting was ultra.

And of course its apples to oranges. We don't have the same game running on two engines. We can never directly compare the two. Every game has a different graphics load, different settings and features. But at the same time, if you look at all these games that are pushing Next Gen visuals, they all come in around the same performance profile. That's because on consoles they all target 1440p 30 fps as the lowest common denominator. The PCs then scale up from there. Crimson desert is likely doing 1440p 60 fps so it will be interesting to see just how there got there.

I think CD footage they showed weren't using MAX settings, ultra is below that. So I think it's safe to assume that you could have used "high" UE5 settings as equivalent, and that would give you decent performance boost in native 4k.

 

[Jam Dingo]

I agree that SOME PARTS of rift apart like the robot cantina are top tier stuff and we praised that multiple times in here.

The game also has some areas that look pretty meh, it's not as a complete package as some other games.

But the highs are very high.

And yeah it definitely look better than both yotei and ds2.

It's really not that inconsistent. I think I could name a dozen areas I personally think look better than the cantina. It's just this childish game that gets played in here whereby SOME level of inconsistency (which obviously applies to ALL games) is leapt on and exaggerated to the maximum degree in service of some silly agenda.

Mod Edit: Reviewed user's posts. Removed from thread.

 

[Cumulus]

You have just confirmed what I have always suspected, based on the perception of the average player, that more colorful games tend to be more beautiful, regardless of whether this is true or not. It is no wonder that many consider Yotei or the recently announced Pokémon to be the pinnacle of graphics.

Disagree.
The limited game material we`ve seen from the DokeV game is just PR material so far and it has better lighting and asset quality as well as much higher density than crimson desert. Color and artstyle aside it simply does look a tad better/more advanced.

"It is no wonder that many consider Yotei or the recently announced Pokémon to be the pinnacle of graphics." Aside from a certain troll in this thread I haven`t heard or seen that take anywhere but since the mainstream often doesn`t really differentiate between artstyle and graphics I´ll believe it.

 

[Wolzard]

You have just confirmed what I have always suspected, based on the perception of the average player, that more colorful games tend to be more beautiful, regardless of whether this is true or not. It is no wonder that many consider Yotei or the recently announced Pokémon to be the pinnacle of graphics.

Ways to impress people with graphics:

- Saturated colors;
- White lighting;
- Reflective materials;
- Low light/darkness and many shadows;
- Cloudy and rainy weather.
- Zoom in on characters with significant facial markings, such as hair and scars.

 

[Bojji]

Ways to impress people with graphics:

- Saturated colors;
- White lighting;
- Reflective materials;
- Low light/darkness and many shadows;
- Cloudy and rainy weather.
- Zoom in on characters with significant facial markings, such as hair and scars.

- Saturated colors;
- Low light/darkness and many shadows;
- Cloudy and rainy weather.

All those things at the same time?

 

[Wolzard]

- Saturated colors;
- Low light/darkness and many shadows;
- Cloudy and rainy weather.

All those things at the same time?

No, just one of them is enough. Saturated colors in low-light environments may not be effective.

- Saturated colors;

Dokev, as already mentioned.

- Low light/darkness and many shadows;

Any survival horror game these days.

- Cloudy and rainy weather.

TLOU2, cyberpunk mods, etc.

 

[Toots]

Ways to impress people with graphics:

- Saturated colors;
- White lighting;
- Reflective materials;
- Low light/darkness and many shadows;
- Cloudy and rainy weather.
- Zoom in on characters with significant facial markings, such as hair and scars.

I remember simpler times when the greatest way to impress people with graphics was bouncing boobs

 

[Bojji]

No, just one of them is enough. Saturated colors in low-light environments may not be effective.

- Saturated colors;

Dokev, as already mentioned.

- Low light/darkness and many shadows;

Any survival horror game these days.

- Cloudy and rainy weather.

TLOU2, cyberpunk mods, etc.

Agree.

But games you showed are also very technically competent, industry leading even. Compare that to something like (infamous) Ghost of Yotei.

 

[geary]

 

[Gonzito]

The game's visuals remind me so much of Dragons Dogma

 

[Bojji]

The game's visuals remind me so much of Dragons Dogma

Dragons Dogma with competent engine.

I'm stunned what this engine is pushing and how performant it is. All other modern engines look like "baby's first engine" in comparison (and that includes Decima).

 

[GymWolf]

Dragons Dogma with competent engine.

I'm stunned what this engine is pushing and how performant it is. All other modern engines look like "baby's first engine" in comparison (and that includes Decima).

They are not pushing graphic details tho, like at all.

Probably how they can manage to do what they are doing.

 

[Bojji]

They are not pushing graphic details tho, like at all.

Probably how they can manage to do what they are doing.

Yeah, up close it's not on the level of UE5.

For linear games there are better solutions but for open world? I don't think we have anything better, Decima is stuck in 2018 and only new thing they added is PICO.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah, up close it's not on the level of UE5.

For linear games there are better solutions but for open world? I don't think we have anything better, Decima is stuck in 2018 and only new thing they added is PICO.

Up close is not even on the level of horizon, let alone ue5 stuff.

Yeah i'm just saying that they are free to use rendering power for other stuff when the details are like umm...ps4.5 era at the very very best?

It's how you get zelda to run on a switch with all the physics, shit fidelity.

I'm beyond hyped for the game but i'm not gonna pretend like their engine doesn't have visible and clear drawbacks to achieve all those features.

P.s, of course if yt is pulling an ac shadows and the game look much better i'm gonna eat crow, i fucking hope to eat crow with this one.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Dragons Dogma with competent engine.

I'm stunned what this engine is pushing and how performant it is. All other modern engines look like "baby's first engine" in comparison (and that includes Decima).

ex-MMO PC focused devs, no surprise theyve put more effort into optimizing/efficiency than others, helps that they probably have a consistant cash flow from BDO.

 

[GymWolf]

ex-MMO PC focused devs, no surprise theyve put more effort into optimizing/efficiency than others, helps that they probably have a consistant cash flow from BDO.

Fun fact, dogma also had a mmorpg game in the series.

 

[T4keD0wN]

Fun fact, dogma also had a mmorpg game in the series.

Yeah, too bad it never got a proper western release, at least to my knowledge, wanted to play it quite badly.

 

[Bojji]

Up close is not even on the level of horizon, let alone ue5 stuff.

Yeah i'm just saying that they are free to use rendering power for other stuff when the details are like umm...ps4.5 era at the very very best?

It's how you get zelda to run on a switch with all the physics, shit fidelity.

I'm beyond hyped for the game but i'm not gonna pretend like their engine doesn't have visible and clear drawbacks to achieve all those features.

P.s, of course if yt is pulling an ac shadows and the game look much better i'm gonna eat crow, i fucking hope to eat crow with this one.

You could argue that Horizon is not even PS4.5 title, it's literally PS4 game with few settings set to higher presets:

Add piss poor draw distance (especially for shadows), lack of any form of real time global illumination

No nanite like tech, no use for mesh shaders, no RT in any form. What they fuck were they doing since 2017?

Personally I think CD engine obliterates them in almost all aspects.

 

[SlimySnake]

This could be huge. MS claims new Direct X update offers 40-90% better performance in ray tracing.

In a branching blog, Microsoft shows its own demo for SER, where a scene is rendered with and without it. Using SER, Nvidia GPUs saw a 40% boost in performance while some Intel Arc B-series GPUs got up to 90% more FPS. This feature, now being standardized, means we can potentially see Intel and AMD implement their own hardware-level SER in next-gen GPUs.

Microsoft adds Shader Execution Reordering (SER) in latest DirectX SDK for more efficient ray tracing — Intel Arc B-series GPUs show 90% performance uplift

Ray tracing just got a little smarter.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Lootlord]

Why are videos on X like 120P?

 

[GymWolf]

You could argue that Horizon is not even PS4.5 title, it's literally PS4 game with few settings set to higher presets:

Add piss poor draw distance (especially for shadows), lack of any form of real time global illumination

No nanite like tech, no use for mesh shaders, no RT in any form. What they fuck were they doing since 2017?

Personally I think CD engine obliterates them in almost all aspects.

I was only talking about details, characters etc, not raytracing or rendering distance, And detail\character wise it still look better than crimson, especially on pc with pristine iq.

And that is a crossgen game, against shadow the comparison would be even uglier because it also has all the fancy lights and shadows but probably worse rendering distance.

It is a more nextgen engine than decima features wise? Sure
Does it actually look better? Arguable.

I think the game is gonna impress for its size, scope, interactivity, water tech, rendering distance and affordable good enough raytracing with good performances, i doubt anyone is gonna praise textures, characters etc.

 

[GymWolf]

This could be huge. MS claims new Direct X update offers 40-90% better performance in ray tracing.

Microsoft adds Shader Execution Reordering (SER) in latest DirectX SDK for more efficient ray tracing — Intel Arc B-series GPUs show 90% performance uplift

Ray tracing just got a little smarter.

www.tomshardware.com

Do we still believe microsoft after dx12?

 

[CowboyLou]

This could be huge. MS claims new Direct X update offers 40-90% better performance in ray tracing.

Microsoft adds Shader Execution Reordering (SER) in latest DirectX SDK for more efficient ray tracing — Intel Arc B-series GPUs show 90% performance uplift

Ray tracing just got a little smarter.

www.tomshardware.com

Yeah someone made a separate thread for it. Will be interesting to see if it amounts to anything in the real world.

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/micr...b-series-80-on-nvidia-blackwell-gpus.1694128/

 

[Bojji]

This could be huge. MS claims new Direct X update offers 40-90% better performance in ray tracing.

Microsoft adds Shader Execution Reordering (SER) in latest DirectX SDK for more efficient ray tracing — Intel Arc B-series GPUs show 90% performance uplift

Ray tracing just got a little smarter.

www.tomshardware.com

This brings stuff to DX12 that already was available to nvidia users since 2022. That also means it will force AMD to implement those features in RDNA5 (I think it's rumored to already have them).

I think most games with PT use those things.

I was only talking about details, characters etc, not raytracing or rendering distance, And detail\character wise it still look better than crimson, especially on pc with pristine iq.

And that is a crossgen game, against shadow the comparison would be even uglier because it also has all the fancy lights and shadows but probably worse rendering distance.

It is a more nextgen engine than decima? Sure
Does it actually look better? Arguable.

End result in my opinion looks better. Water is like 10x better than SSR shit GG used, I remember reaching Chorus corpse (story moment) and seeing all that garbage water with broken reflections around if and was like "WTF is this shit?".

Decima NEEDS serious improvements, it's already behind and that gap will only grow before they release Horizon 3.

 

[GymWolf]

This brings stuff to DX12 that already was available to nvidia users since 2022. That also means it will force AMD to implement those features in RDNA5 (I think it's rumored to already have them).

I think most games with PT use those things.



End result in my opinion looks better. Water is like 10x better than SSR shit GG used, I remember reaching Chorus corpse (story moment) and seeing all that garbage water with broken reflections around if and was like "WTF is this shit?".

Decima NEEDS serious improvements, it's already behind and that gap will only grow before they release Horizon 3.

Water reflections/physics looks better but for the actual look of the water/sea, i think horizon still takes the cake.

Their sea is extremely impressive to look at, i didn't saw any body of water that looked as good in crimson.

But tbf, i'm far from anal as you guys with ssr reflections.

 

[Bojji]

Water reflections/physics looks better but for the actual look of the water/sea, i think horizon still takes the cake.

Their sea is extremely impressive to look at, i didn't saw any body of water that looked as good in crimson.

But tbf, i'm far from anal as you guys with ssr reflections.

I remember seeing SSR for the first time in Crysis 2 in DX11 mode and be like "wow, so this is the future?". It the only time I was impressed by SSR, hahaha.

Horizon has amazing ocean, that is 100% true.

 

[coachmcguirk91]

You could argue that Horizon is not even PS4.5 title, it's literally PS4 game with few settings set to higher presets:

Add piss poor draw distance (especially for shadows), lack of any form of real time global illumination

No nanite like tech, no use for mesh shaders, no RT in any form. What they fuck were they doing since 2017?

Personally I think CD engine obliterates them in almost all aspects.

Art direction is much better in Horizon. I am not a fan of the game as a whole, but it is still one of the most gorgeous games to see in motion

 

[GymWolf]

I remember seeing SSR for the first time in Crysis 2 in DX11 mode and be like "wow, so this is the future?". It the only time I was impressed by SSR, hahaha.

Horizon has amazing ocean, that is 100% true.

Not being anal about reflections saved me many headaches you people have with most games without rtx

 

[Abysse]

The ocean water could be even better, if we consider the trailer for Plan 8 from 2019.

 

[GymWolf]

The ocean water could be even better, if we consider the trailer for Plan 8 from 2019.

How many games are these fuckers making?

 

[Bojji]

This water talk reminds me that FFXVI has great ocean tech that is used in maybe two levels (that you can't enter again)

 

[GymWolf]

This water talk reminds me that FFXVI has great ocean tech that is used in maybe two levels (that you can't enter again)

We call that arkham knight syndrome or barely utilized godly water syndrome

 

[Bojji]

We call that arkham knight syndrome or barely utilized godly water syndrome

Yep, fire emojis for water are weird but 100% justified for those games.

 

[Buggy Loop]

This could be huge. MS claims new Direct X update offers 40-90% better performance in ray tracing.

Microsoft adds Shader Execution Reordering (SER) in latest DirectX SDK for more efficient ray tracing — Intel Arc B-series GPUs show 90% performance uplift

Ray tracing just got a little smarter.

www.tomshardware.com

DXR 1.2 includes OMM and SER, both added features since Ada cards. Alan Wake 2 used them with help of Nvidia, maybe some other games I can't recall. (SER in Cyberpunk 2077 for sure)

I think they're really playing on the "up to" because more than likely you won't see that kind of performance in a game. Maybe a little bench demo.

 

[mrMUR_96]

This could be huge. MS claims new Direct X update offers 40-90% better performance in ray tracing.

Microsoft adds Shader Execution Reordering (SER) in latest DirectX SDK for more efficient ray tracing — Intel Arc B-series GPUs show 90% performance uplift

Ray tracing just got a little smarter.

www.tomshardware.com

Nvidia has already implemented this a year or so ago, but this integrates it into base dx12 so it will be much better supported and vendor agnostic. I think like only 1 or 2 games use it so far.