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[DarkShadowXI]

Model, pls?

I've been using this for the past 2 years:

Link to Amazon


It burns through batteries in about...a month of use, maybe? I use Eneloop Pro rechargeables.

It's not the most graceful thing in the world, but it gets the job done. It's also plug and play, but the USB receiver needs to have line of sight.

I'd rather use this than a keyboard and mouse. I just wanna boot up a game and play, but this is also useful if I need to change Windows clunky ass audio settings that constantly change for no good reason lol

 

[Gaiff]

What do you think, Gaf. What makes a PC a PC to you?

If I can watch porn with any VR headset on it.

 

[IntentionalPun]

I guess I find it more interesting to litigate what a console is.

I can't imagine if MIcrosoft released a Windows 11 machine, that just had a totally locked boot partition, but nothing else special about it, that anyone would consider it a console.

So what would you all call that type of machine?

And then if it had a special hypervisor that could launch actual Xbox console games like Helix probably will, is it not a "PC/console hybrid" because the "PC" part doesn't let you replace the OS?

In the end we don't even know the implementation they will go with at this point, as they haven't officially confirmed that you can even install Steam or whatever.

 

[Minsc]

I can't imagine if MIcrosoft released a Windows 11 machine, that just had a totally locked boot partition, but nothing else special about it, that anyone would consider it a console.

So what would you all call that type of machine?

And then if it had a special hypervisor that could launch actual Xbox console games like Helix probably will, is it not a "PC/console hybrid" because the "PC" part doesn't let you replace the OS?

In the end we don't even know the implementation they will go with at this point, as they haven't officially confirmed that you can even install Steam or whatever.

Are the arcade machines from the 90s that different? They were just PCs running Windows with quarter slots and joysticks, but I don't think most people thought of them as PCs.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Are the arcade machines from the 90s that different? They were just PCs running Windows with quarter slots and joysticks, but I don't think most people thought of them as PCs.

They'd be PCs to the operators of the machine, sure. Obviously the restricted experience of the people going to an arcade is different.

Not entirely sure what your point is though in regards to my post. I never mentioned a completely locked down Windows machine that had no actual access to Windows.

 

[Miyazaki’s Slave]

What makes it a PC...that tiny little sticker of course.

 

[Minsc]

They'd be PCs to the operators of the machine, sure. Obviously the restricted experience of the people going to an arcade is different.

Not entirely sure what your point is though in regards to my post. I never mentioned a completely locked down Windows machine that had no actual access to Windows.

That's true, if somehow MS released an Xbox that had near-full access to Windows, could run everything a normal PC could in Chrome/Edge, no exceptions, including downloading pirated games/etc, then I expect no one would really think it's a console, it'd sorta bein the same boat as the Deck I think.

 

[TintoConCasera]

If I can watch porn with any VR headset on it.

wait... consolebros can't do that?

 

[Fess]

Why complicate things?

If it runs PC games it's a PC.

If it runs console games it's a console.

If it runs both it's a PC console hybrid.

 

[IntentionalPun]

That's true, if somehow MS released an Xbox that had near-full access to Windows, could run everything a normal PC could in Chrome/Edge, no exceptions, including downloading pirated games/etc, then I expect no one would really think it's a console, it'd sorta bein the same boat as the Deck I think.

Well Steam Deck actually does let you modify the OS, you can install Windows, dual boot, etc.

I think in the end there's probably a point where locking down Windows no longer makes it a PC, I just don't personally think it's the "can't replace the OS" thing, but it's semantics really. I understand why people feel that way but the truth is the majority of people who buy a "PC" never think to do that, so colloquially it's not really part of the definition.

 

[nkarafo]

Personal Computer:

A device that let's you build it or modify it with hardware parts of your choice, without being tied to policies that would prevent you to do so.
A device that let's you Install an Operating System of your choice, without being tied to policies that would prevent you to do so

Both need to apply. If any of those don't, then it's not a PC.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Personal Computer:

A device that let's you build it or modify it with hardware parts of your choice, without being tied to policies that would prevent you to do so.
A device that let's you Install an Operating System of your choice, without being tied to policies that would prevent you to do so

Both need to apply. If any of those don't, then it's not a PC.

So let's say the case is completely locked down, hardware completely inaccessible, any attempt to change anything and it explodes.

But otherwise, the OS can be replaced, software fully available including BIOS.

So what do you call that if not a PC?

 

[Fahdis]

Niggas still talking about PC when PC2 is on the horizon. Silly people.

 

[Salty Pickle]

It runs windows.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Why complicate things?

If it runs PC games it's a PC.

If it runs console games it's a console.

If it runs both it's a PC console hybrid.

- May be true.

- Not true. What is a "console game"? PS5 can't run Switch 2 games, for example. So one is a console and the other is not?? No. The definition of what a console is more "problematic".

 

[nkarafo]

So let's say the case is completely locked down, hardware completely inaccessible, any attempt to change anything and it explodes.

But otherwise, the OS can be replaced, software fully available including BIOS.

So what do you call that if not a PC?

I'm not sure, could you post an example of such device? Does it exist even?

Devices with locked down hardware (such as consoles or phones) tend to have policies against installing alternative OS software, including Android phones.

 

[BlackTron]

Good thing Sony closed that PS3 loophole long ago or this would get awkward for everyone really fast

 

[IntentionalPun]

I'm not sure, could you post an example of such device? Does it exist even?

Devices with locked down hardware (such as consoles or phones) tend to have policies against installing alternative OS software, including Android phones.

There's unibody laptops that are that way. You can replace the software but the hardware is locked down.

And of course people are theorizing that Helix will be like that.

 

[The_Mike]

This thread feels equivalent to "what is a woman" on the looney forum.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Personal Computer:

A device that let's you build it or modify it with hardware parts of your choice, without being tied to policies that would prevent you to do so.
A device that let's you Install an Operating System of your choice, without being tied to policies that would prevent you to do so

Both need to apply. If any of those don't, then it's not a PC.

-All parts or just some parts?
-Any OS or just some OSs? I can't install Android on a Desktop.

Good thing Sony closed that PS3 loophole long ago or this would get awkward for everyone really fast

PS3 Linux can run PC games/programs natively? I still have no idea. If not, not a PC.

 

[Tfault]

For me it's simple:

Console is plug and play with no flexibility. It does what it says on the tin.

PC is also plug and play nowadays, but offers total flexibility in hardware and software.

Good example in my case, I can be playing a game whilst it is also controlling my telescope whilst taking pictures of a galaxy.

 

[Fess]

- Not true. What is a "console game"? PS5 can't run Switch 2 games, for example. So one is a console and the other is not?? No. The definition of what a console is more "problematic".

"Why complicate things?"

A game running natively on Xbox consoles is an Xbox console game.

And a game running natively on a PC is a PC game.

Now if Microsoft craft a device that can run both native PC games and native Xbox console games, then it's time to use that hybrid term, it's the only thing that makes sense. It's not just a PC. Not just a console.

 

[Laptop1991]

Interchange able hardware and open source with no walled gardens plus the choice to do a lot more than just gaming, there have been Windows OS that have been too restrictive in the past and they have never been successful.

 

[nkarafo]

There's unibody laptops that are that way. You can replace the software but the hardware is locked down.

And of course people are theorizing that Helix will be like that.

You can't even change the RAM or the storage?

Well, dunno, i wouldn't ever touch such a thing so i'm not eligible to say. But if it can be used as a PC, software wise, and there are no other restrictions then i suppose it's a very limiting PC.

-All parts or just some parts?

In the case of laptops, at least some parts like the battery, RAM and storage, IMO.

-Any OS or just some OSs? I can't install Android on a Desktop.

A PC should allow you to install any OS that is compatible with the hardware, without policies that prevent you to do so. It doesn't matter how many different OSes there are for you to choose.

PS3 Linux can run PC games/programs natively? I still have no idea. If not, not a PC.

PC games and programs also need compatible hardware and drivers to be able to run natively. So i would say no because PC games aren't made to run on console exclusive hardware like the Cell CPU for instance.

 

[IntentionalPun]

You can't even change the RAM or the storage?

Well, dunno, i wouldn't ever touch such a thing so i'm not eligible to say. But if it can be used as a PC, software wise, and there are no other restrictions then i suppose it's a very limiting PC.

Yeah it's not common for Windows machines but some of the Surface devices actually are like this, a smattering of Lenovo devices, etc. Drive is actually soldered to the motherbaord.

It's theoretically possible to replace them but completely voids the warranty on them.

And yeah that's kind of my point; to me it would make more sense to describe the "Full PC experience" as being what you and others have said, but removing some of those features doesn't turn the device into something totally different. "PC" is still the best description we have, as they don't suddenly become consoles or something else, they are just PCs with limitations.

 

[nkarafo]

Yeah it's not common for Windows machines but some of the Surface devices actually are like this, a smattering of Lenovo devices, etc. Drive is actually soldered to the motherbaord.

It's theoretically possible to replace them but completely voids the warranty on them.

And yeah that's kind of my point; to me it would make more sense to describe the "Full PC experience" as being what you and others have said, but removing some of those features doesn't turn the device into something totally different. "PC" is still the best description we have, as they don't suddenly become consoles or something else, they are just PCs with limitations.

Yeah, that's fair.

 

[xanaum]

It's about the architecture, if something is built with a system structure aimed at the flexibility of a personal computer, then it's a PC. But if it shares some hardware yet is dedicated to a different purpose, then it's something else, like smartphones, tablets, and consoles.

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

It either runs an OS for masochists who like to tinker more than get actual work done on it.

Or an OS that not only is full of bugs and continues to get on your nerves, but that also spies on you and is prone to gobbling up all kinds of viruses and trojan horses it can get.

 

[Aenima]

If i can install PC software in it... its a PC.

 

[Hudo]

It runs Lotus 1-2-3.

 

[Hemingwayoffbase]

Nothing. It's an Xbox.

 

[Soodanim]

I think the question is difficult to answer because the question is flawed.

Consoles are locked down computers designed to be compatible with specific hardware (peripherals and accessories) and software.

 

[Steve Holt]

Easy. If DenchDeckard , @vaibhavpisal, Gaiff , @Bojji, @adamsapple or @Artistic think it is a console, then it's probably a PC

If Jason Ronald thinks it's a console then it's definitely a PC.

His marketing lies for Series S were scandalous.

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Software and hardware independence. If I can build it myself with widely available parts, and run whatever software I want, it's a PC. If it's a proprietary box that does not allow interchangeable components, you can't run your own software, it's just a console box by another name.

 

[RCX]

Right now it's my Odin 2 running android because I'm playing Steam PC games on it.

 

[T4keD0wN]

If i can brick its bios its a pc.

 

[rodrigolfp]

"Why complicate things?"

A game running natively on Xbox consoles is an Xbox console game.

And a game running natively on a PC is a PC game.

Now if Microsoft craft a device that can run both native PC games and native Xbox console games, then it's time to use that hybrid term, it's the only thing that makes sense. It's not just a PC. Not just a console.

Xbox and Xbox 360 games don't run natively on XOne and Xseries.
16 and 32 bits PC games don't run natively on 64bit OSs on PCs.
Things are not just 8 or 80.

In the case of laptops, at least some parts like the battery, RAM and storage, IMO.

You can change only SSD on Steam Deck. So, PC or no PC?

If i can brick its bios its a pc.

You can brick console BIOS too.

 

[nkarafo]

You can change only SSD on Steam Deck. So, PC or no PC?

Can you change the OS?

If yes then a somewhat limiting PC. If not then just a console handheld that plays PC games.

 

[Minsc]

Well Steam Deck actually does let you modify the OS, you can install Windows, dual boot, etc.

I think in the end there's probably a point where locking down Windows no longer makes it a PC, I just don't personally think it's the "can't replace the OS" thing, but it's semantics really. I understand why people feel that way but the truth is the majority of people who buy a "PC" never think to do that, so colloquially it's not really part of the definition.

I'd argue if the definition of PC hinges on being able to change the OS, then we split the difference and agree it's not a PC, but instead a Windows PC.

 

[Lokaum D+]

steam

 

[T4keD0wN]

You can brick console BIOS too.

Ok, theyre PCs now to me.

 

[RoboFu]

Xbox's base os is Windows. a standard PC OS before consoles.
Playstation's base is BSD(basically unix). a standard PC OS before consoles.
Nintendo Switch's base os is called Horizon OS. it was made specifically by Nintendo for their gaming consoles starting with the 3ds.


okay .. now you can continue.

 

[MisterXDTV]

A device that runs standard PC software Windows or Linux

 

[Ogbert]

Games are primarily designed for mouse and keyboard.

 

[rodrigolfp]

Can you change the OS?

If yes then a somewhat limiting PC. If not then just a console handheld that plays PC games.

At launch no, afaik. Only after some time people made drivers so you could install other Linuxes and Windows.

And how would it be a console with a full fat Arch Linux only and running PC games??

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Why complicate things?

If it runs PC games it's a PC.

If it runs console games it's a console.

If it runs both it's a PC console hybrid.

One and done.

 

[Fess]

Software and hardware independence. If I can build it myself with widely available parts, and run whatever software I want, it's a PC. If it's a proprietary box that does not allow interchangeable components, you can't run your own software, it's just a console box by another name.

Wouldn't that make some of those tight mini ITX prebuilds not PCs? Don't think you can build them yourself and change parts.

Xbox and Xbox 360 games don't run natively on XOne and Xseries.
16 and 32 bits PC games don't run natively on 64bit OSs on PCs.
Things are not just 8 or 80.

But Xbox Series games runs natively on Xbox Series and not natively on PC. That's the real difference worth talking about. You need a port to take a game from one box to the other.

If/once everything is the same thing, or if everything coming from the Xbox console side is just emulation, done on any PC without any fancy AMD hardware, then it's just a PC.

 

[Minsc]

One and done.

But there are actual budget PCs that can't run PC games, and there are things like android phones that can run PC games.

So you'd be making PCs not PCs and phones into PCs.

 

[nkarafo]

At launch no, afaik. Only after some time people made drivers so you could install other Linuxes and Windows.

And how would it be a console with a full fat Arch Linux only and running PC games??

It looks too limiting to be used as a PC, IMO.

 

[DavidGzz]

By definition any console, computer, phone, tablet etc. would fall under the characteristics of a "Personal Computer". At least to me.

This. And the more console like, the more limited. Consoles are just PCs that only allow one controller, forced to pay to play online, no modifications to game, and one store front.