Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Give us a Zelda with strong base building and survival elements. A Nintendo does Valheim approach.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I loved that game, but also breaks my heart because it was a very obviously unfinished game. I wish they would go back and properly finish it for subsequent releases.No love for Wind Waker?
diffusionx
Gold Member
How many times can we play explore world->find clumpy wall->go to dungeon->get bombs->explore overheard->find gap with post on other side->go to dungeon->get hook shot->explore over world->find giant rock you can't lift etc etc
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
They robbed us of a whole dungeon lol.
I've only beaten it once, but I remember the last section of the game being really, really cool. It deserves more recognition imo.
We've done that in Metroid quite a few times already and people aren't tired, to the point that many indies nowadays are still copying the formula.
The thing with the classic Zelda formula is that there's nothing else quite like it: a semi-open fantasy/medieval adventure focused on exploring, puzzles and combat with a sense of progression that keeps giving you new stuff up until the end of the game. People aren't making near as many Zelda-likes as they are making metroidvanias, so people are hungry for more of that I believe.
Last edited:
BlackTron
Member
I mean this is like a different version of saying "how many times can we play a Mario level".
There doesn't have to be a hookshot. Ages games had a unique item that seemed like it would be a hookshot, but instead it switched your position with whatever item it grabbed as a teleport, making for a new brand of puzzles around this idea. But you were still playing a Zelda dungeon.
The boomerang can be reduced to a regular item like in BOTW, or removed outright. It doesn't have to be the special item to do the puzzles and beat the boss a 10th time, they can make a new idea.
The part that makes it Zelda isn't using the same items or ways of finding dungeons over and over again, I thought the Mario example showed that.
Jinzo Prime
Member
Wind Waker is one of my favorites. It had a big open world, and enemy weapons, and traditional dungeons, and a magic system.
I just want the next Zelda game to have all the things I love about Zelda, but in an open world. I really don't need to be able to climb everywhere if it ruins puzzle design.
diffusionx
Gold Member
You can do that without making LTTP again, but now on a boat or whatever.
Echoes of Wisdom tried to do something different for example, but people didn't like that.
Last edited:
diffusionx
Gold Member
I agree. What I was talking about was literally this structure and item progression from a SNES game.
Imagine if every Mario since 3 had world 1 grass, world 2 desert, world 3 water, etc. people would get tired of that fast.
Last edited:
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
I really liked it when I played it. Even the triforce quest was fine to me, it was very comfy to sail around in the boat, and being able to explore all those islands as you saw fit gave the game a lot of freedom.
Yeah imo the excessive freedom of the open-world games kill the sense of adventure a little bit. Even more so since you get most of the items/powers right at the start, killing the sense of progression.
How would you do it? BOTW and TOTK tried to be different and it did indeed felt like something that's not what Zelda should be (at least to me) with lack of progression and lack of proper level design being the biggest red flags.
Dr Bass
Gold Member
Zelda needs to keep evolving to stay fresh. I thought TotK was one of the best games I've played, and it was expressly because of the unlimited creativity it offers to the player. Definitely a game where you only get out what you put in. If you don't want to use the building mechanic, well, you won't get the most out of it that you can.
They definitely should not go back to the old formula. It's been done to perfection more or less. They should continue to try and do completely new things while making sure the games are unmistakably Zelda. Easier said than done of course.
They definitely should not go back to the old formula. It's been done to perfection more or less. They should continue to try and do completely new things while making sure the games are unmistakably Zelda. Easier said than done of course.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I mean there are lots of top down action RPGs, Adventures of Elliott Page is coming out soon. But are those "what Zelda should be"?
I'm saying that Zelda can't just be this 1993 Link to the Past game structure and item setup. And if that's the only thing that qualifies as Zelda then I can see why Nintendo doesn't want to make the same game into eternity.
Last edited:
DreamcastSkies
Gold Member
I completely agree, OP. BOTW/TOTK are fine games but if/when they shape Zelda so much that traditional Zelda doesn't even exist anymore, it makes me look at them less favorably. I wish Traditional Zelda games could exist along side the open air/shrine based Zelda approach. If not, could traditional Zelda at least be moved to another IP?
I'm happy Adventures of Elliot exists. I always wanted to see 2D Zelda go larger (more towns, more NPCs) and this games looks Zelda-ish but leans more into RPG pillars as well (more towns, more NPC interaction)
It's too late now, but I feel like Kid Icarus was RIGHT THERE. The Kid Icarus franchise would work well for what Tears of the Kingdom wanted to do (air and land exploration with combat mixed in). Kid Icarus doesn't really have a true franchise identity yet. Kid Icarus could have been used for something like TOTK without compromising what makes Zelda Zelda.
I'm happy Adventures of Elliot exists. I always wanted to see 2D Zelda go larger (more towns, more NPCs) and this games looks Zelda-ish but leans more into RPG pillars as well (more towns, more NPC interaction)
It's too late now, but I feel like Kid Icarus was RIGHT THERE. The Kid Icarus franchise would work well for what Tears of the Kingdom wanted to do (air and land exploration with combat mixed in). Kid Icarus doesn't really have a true franchise identity yet. Kid Icarus could have been used for something like TOTK without compromising what makes Zelda Zelda.
Last edited:
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Maybe that's the case, but they don't seem to have that problem with Metroid lol. Wish they did like with that series, maybe completely handing over the nuZelda style games to Monolith, and having Nintendo keeping alive the old formula with more 3D games or, at least, 2D ones. I'd be really happy with that.
Hey thanks! Game ruined.
diffusionx
Gold Member
LolMaybe that's the case, but they don't seem to have that problem with Metroid lol. Wish they did like with that series, maybe completely handing over the nuZelda style games to Monolith, and having Nintendo keeping alive the old formula with more 3D games or, at least, 2D ones. I'd be really happy with that.
Hey thanks! Game ruined.
i don't think there are as many Metroid games, and different teams work on them. And they did try some new things with like dread and other m, I guess. I'm not saying don't make new 2D Zelda, or every game had to be open world, just this LTTP formula is very constrictive and Zelda shouldn't be funneled into that very narrow vision.
justiceiro
Marlboro: Other M
Oh boy, I thought botw broke the Zelda cycle, but it just delayed.
Also, you shouldn't be complaining OP. That's the Zelda you wanted?
Also, you shouldn't be complaining OP. That's the Zelda you wanted?
WaterOnix
Member
Yeah I never wanted to build stuff in a Zelda game either, similar to how I felt the direction Banjo Kazooie ended up taking. I also thought the controls in ToTK were a downgrade from BoTW, though it's been a while since I played. It was something about the divine allies feeling like crap to use, and all that horizontal scrolling I think
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
An overworld with optional stuff to find, items that give you new powers/abilities and unique dungeons in which to find those items. I don't think that's such a restrictive concept or vision really.
And if it'd be, does it really matter if the game is fun to play? TP is basically OOT2 and some people have that one as their favorite entry in the series.
diffusionx
Gold Member
It just becomes like comfort food at some point because you know exactly what it is and what you are getting. That's fine I guess but I can see why Nintendo wants to push it further.
DreamcastSkies
Gold Member
I didn't care for TP when it originally released but when the HD Remaster came out for the Wii U, TP just clicked for me and I fell in love with it. I would rank it up there with OOT. The haunting twilight atmosphere that hangs over the world is mesmerizing to me. The 'hook' of losing your farm town friends and needing to save them being the driving force that fuels the first couple of dungeons is really well done. The complaints I had when it first released are still there (Castle Town feels underutilized, the overworld doesn't have much going on, compared to MM and TWW it seems like NPC interaction is overall sort of bare) but the central story, the dungeons, the boss fights, the mood and overall artstyle is pretty amazing.
I'm really hoping the OOT Remake is true and leads to remakes of MM, TWW and TP. Even though SS is a traditional 3D Zelda like the others, I'm just not sure it's looked on favorably enough to justify a remake. The run of OOT through TP is unique because each of those 4 games has legitimate reasons to argue for being the best of the traditional 3D Zelda games.
Last edited:
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Yeah I can agree on that, and it's nice of them to try and innovate the formula. Best case scenario (for me heh) they keep the open-world and sense of freedom while bringing back the big dungeons with nice level design and fun puzzles to solve.
Yeah it sure is. Some of the dungeons might be among the best in the series, and I love how they sort of "make sense" in the world they are in and feel like actual places rather than just "Forest Temple" or "Water Temple". The bosses where cool and what I really liked was how they gave Link so many combat options with the special attacks, like being able to position yourself behind the enemy or doing that helm-splitter attack.
I hope it's true as well, but rather than spawning more remakes it serves to tell Nintendo that people are still interested in that formula. I really hope for that to be the case with both the OOT remake and the Star Fox remake.
GymWolf
Gold Member
Is it the one where he has the role of achilles?
BlackTron
Member
Right, Mario World changed that, but it didn't change that you run from left to right avoiding obstacles to clear a level and progress, which could be seen as the core structure of Mario.
That's actually why I kind of like Super Mario Land GB, it has some unexpected themes like Egypt and China, and a few airplane or submarine shooting levels for variety. Mario Land 2 had the moon where there's no gravity and just hold A to keep floating higher.
Those pipes that led to the underground rooms with the same tileset, or inside the Galaxy planets with a mini challenge like chasing notes? Where we stand with Zelda is what would happen if Mario was one big world that only had those pipes leading to those 1-room challenges. That's not the kind of shake-up necessary to keep the series fresh. They could make 50 cool interesting levels instead of 500 of those and have a successful sequel. Of course the levels and mechanics would have to be new and good. Not the same shit over. Maybe that's the problem to be sidestepped.
Hawk The Slayer
Member
I hope it goes back to the dark fantasy art style of Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, or the Wii U tech demo. Instead of the ugly cell shading crap of BOTW/TOLK or even TP. Until then I won't ever buy a Nintendo console.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
loved OoT, thought majora's mask was ok, thought wind waker was ok... havent really had an appetite for zelda since
Buggy Loop
Member
TOTK broke all explorations aspects that made BOTW special
Too strong machines, abusing sky world to drop almost anywhere on map.
I also hope next Zelda doesn't go open world
Too strong machines, abusing sky world to drop almost anywhere on map.
I also hope next Zelda doesn't go open world
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
That would be amazing yeah. Even ALTTP was way darker and it was a colorful 2D game.
Maybe check out Twilight Princess if you ever feel like playing more Ocarina of Time, game's pretty similar just bigger and with more stuff thrown in there.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
one day i probably will, but i dont want to play as a wolf and this guy looks stupid
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Wolf sections suck ass but IIRC there are mostly there during the first segments of the game, and later on it becomes just like any other item and you can use it or not. Game's a cool Zelda game but with a few weird things, and imo the game would be better without the wolf.one day i probably will, but i dont want to play as a wolf and this guy looks stupid
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
More/bigger dungeons is fine and good to do, but I don't agree that BOTW/TOTK departed from the core of Zelda... they restored it more than anything.
All the way back to Wind Waker, the franchise has been a bit broken. I enjoy WW/TP/SS but let me be honest and say that all of them were a huge step down from the former entries. They're slow, constantly annoying story and dialogue everywhere, and they keep trying to give the feeling of open spaces while in fact giving you essentially almost zero freedom.
Amazing that people complain about BOTW's map when the most empty world of all was Wind Waker, a map with so little to offer that it's almost entirely pointless space. And it was followed by two more games that kept piling on the problems, despite nice dungeons.
BOTW was a restoration to the original spirit of the first NES game, after losing its way with the WW/TP/SS sequence.
All the way back to Wind Waker, the franchise has been a bit broken. I enjoy WW/TP/SS but let me be honest and say that all of them were a huge step down from the former entries. They're slow, constantly annoying story and dialogue everywhere, and they keep trying to give the feeling of open spaces while in fact giving you essentially almost zero freedom.
Amazing that people complain about BOTW's map when the most empty world of all was Wind Waker, a map with so little to offer that it's almost entirely pointless space. And it was followed by two more games that kept piling on the problems, despite nice dungeons.
BOTW was a restoration to the original spirit of the first NES game, after losing its way with the WW/TP/SS sequence.
Last edited:
Hudo
Member
Fortunately for me, I like both the old Zelda games and the new Zelda games.
That being said, I remember when the internet, including GAF, was shitting on Wind Waker when it was announced because y'all wanted that Zelda Gamecube tech demo bullshit instead. And thank God Nintendo didn't do that. So I hope Nintendo will continue not doing what people think they should be doing.
That being said, I remember when the internet, including GAF, was shitting on Wind Waker when it was announced because y'all wanted that Zelda Gamecube tech demo bullshit instead. And thank God Nintendo didn't do that. So I hope Nintendo will continue not doing what people think they should be doing.
mayham2199
Member
I honestly agree. I liked some things from botw but I was prefer a Zelda game.
uncreativename
Member
I could definitely see them making an older 3d style Zelda again, there's clearly a lot of people who'd like another one, and they're still making 2d Zeldas. But I really don't think we'll ever get another game with combat as good as Ocarina of Time . All of the other 3d games moved away from that precision to more simple combat, mostly big twirly imprecise diagonal slices instead of vertical and horizontal slashes and precise jump slashes.
. All of the other 3d games moved away from that precision to more simple combat, mostly big twirly imprecise diagonal slices instead of vertical and horizontal slashes and precise jump slashes.
TintoConCasera
I bought a sex doll, but I keep it inflated 100% of the time and use it like a regular wife
Videogames seem to have overall forgotten about directional attacks, and it's sad. I loved how it was implemented in Blade of Darkness, allowing you to cut specific parts of the enemy or even performing combos.I could definitely see them making an older 3d style Zelda again, there's clearly a lot of people who'd like another one, and they're still making 2d Zeldas. But I really don't think we'll ever get another game with combat as good as Ocarina of Time
My favorite section of OOT is the fight against Dark Link, and beating him just with the master sword by carefully alternating directions with the slash while avoiding the thrust is super fun and a nice challenge.
Hero_Select
Member
As someone who loves BotW and TotK I agree a lot with this. I had to go out of my way to solve shrines/dungeons the "intended" way because I wanted to see and figure out the way the puzzle is meant to be solved instead of cheesing it. The Divine Beasts were good in this regard but I really miss the themed dungeons
semiconscious
Member
you're not. i also loved breath of the wild, & i also had no use for tears of the kingdom, particularly because of the construction stuff & the incredibly ugly 'depths' area...
Hero_Select
Member
To be fair - autobuild exists and makes building trivial if you want it to.
If you havent I'd recommend playing the game with the Zelda Notes app where you can download a bunch of things people have built and then just focus on playing the game "normally". The real-time GPS and added lore of Zelda telling you about locations and objects is pretty cool.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
It should mix with Splatoon and become an undersea adventure The Legend of Shellda. You have to save the princess Shellda, a hermit crab, as you take on the role of Ink, the squid hero. He'll hold an item in each arm and as you switch weapons and items he just uses a different arm.
semiconscious
Member
thanks, but i'll pass...
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
It's better then Skyward. Worse then OoT/MM/TP. Great game. Don't like the artstyle that much. Dungeons were on par with other 3D Classic Zelda games. Skyward Sword is just the last one that had the classic elements Zelda was known for. Wind Waker does all of them better then Skyward IMO.
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
I agree with everything you said. Twilight is my fav 3D one next to BOTW but I know I'm in the minority for that one. Fuck me man, I just like my dark fantasy Zelda.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
TP will always be my favorite art direction they used for Zelda. It had a Dark Fantasy style while still retaining the Zelda identity. Was awesome. The only other is probably Hyrule Warriors 1.
Chuck Berry
Gold Member
I still need to give Hyrule Warriors a shot on Switch 2. I never played them because I've never been into musou games (then again I've never played one).
Also regarding TP, for me that one was the last one with the best boss fights. That giant skeleton snake or whatever it is at the Arbiters Grounds when you're bouncing between walls on the spinner was fucking thrilling. How they not ever attempted to top something like that? Or at the very least match it. The Divine Beasts in both newer games do nothing for me whatsoever.
Last edited:
Similar threads
- Poll