For once I agree with you. No way will they go with such a configuration unless they want to rival the energy intake and heat output of the sun.
Rumor: Xbox 3 = 6-core CPU, 2GB of DDR3 Main RAM, 2 AMD GPUs w/ Unknown VRAM, At CES
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For once I agree with you. No way will they go with such a configuration unless they want to rival the energy intake and heat output of the sun.
I would take these specs with a pinch of salt as it's pretty obvious he is chatting out of his backside.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
SegaLeaks are making it up. How can anyone trust this site?
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/2011/10/21/world-exclusive-leaks/
http://s3gal3aks.wordpress.com/2011/10/02/sega-still-shooting-for-a-299-99-launch-price-point/
is it really that hard for you to understand that I'm talking about the way things might have went if Epic didn't step in? & I never said anything about a Xbox 3 with 512MB.
Z
ZombieFred
Unconfirmed Member
I would like to believe this but the bigger question for me is if publishers would be ready for releasing next gen title, and if Microsoft has several first party titles on launch for 2012?
I'm saying that Epic made them go off of the road map that they had laid out with 4X the ram with each upgrade with the 360 having 512MB, but the next console is still on that 4X road map so 2GB fit the pattern because it is 4X the 512MB of ram that the 360 had, just like the 360 with 256MB would have had 4X the ram of the Xbox if Epic wouldn't have stepped in.
I believe so. I mean look at studios like DICE who have created the Frostbite 2 engine with next gen in mind, another one is Crytek with CryEngine 3 where if Crytek are to be believed takes advantage of multiple cores. So it seems like publishers and developers are building next gen engines already.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Cloud storage with no local storage makes absolutely no sense. I don't care if it's Ballmer saying it.
I think my sarcasm detector is broken.
Proelite
Member
Can you link something? I recall that there was some kind of Processing Unit design position available at Entertainment but that could be easily to guide an external process at a major chip builder...
My bad- just went back and looked- they didn't specifically say that
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ms-develop-xbox-chips,3682.html
Proelite
Member
MS is inexperienced in chip design, so I don't think think they'll venture into it. It took AMD, IBM, and Intel decades to build up their expertise in the area.
They originally wanted the 360's cpu to be FPGA, until contracting companies told them that it's way too generalized for any use beyond simulation. That's how green they were.
Uh proof? This is the first I have ever heard of this-
Proelite
Member
I think it was in Xbox 360 Uncloaked.
Death Dealer
Member
I think there is a good chance one of them will try and get a system on the shelves within 6 months of Wii-U's launch next year.
I think the other final manufacturer will be forced to respond and get a system out within 6 months to the second next gen console. So yeah, I believe either MS or Sony (possibly both) will have a new system out within a year to 18 months.
This generation needs to be superseded. It's time.
bgassassin
Member
To borrow from an old post from another poster, Xenoblade was made with 88MB of memory (and of course 3MB of e1T-SRAM).
Things break.
Yeah, I don't see how they get away without a hard drive. It's possible that they will allow connection of unlimited external storage (Now that they seem to have demonstrated that game installs on removable storage can't be exploited). So you could conceivably hook up a USB 3.0 HD or fast flash drive if you wanted to do anything other than save your game. Not sure if that model would even work for game updates though - there'd be plenty of machines without optional storage, so what do they do then?
Not to mention that optional storage would also put a heavy dent in online content sales. Would be hard for a developer to commit to making an Xbox Live or GOD title if they can't even be sure the majority of the user base can run it.
And the optical storage rumor seems fishy too. 15/30GB would in all likelihood be fine from a storage perspective. But they'd be conceding an obvious feature/bullet point to Sony due to the smaller storage size and lack of Blu-Ray play back (They're probably less concerned about the latter). That and they'd need to get duplication facilities setup to produce the custom disks, when all of the facilities are already tooled for Blu-Ray production. Unless there's substantial savings and/or other advantages from a technology standpoint (Like significantly improved access times over Blu-Ray, thus negating need for game installs), I don't see the sense in that rumor either.
Unless iBooks search sucks, FPGA isn't referenced in the book lol
lol you sound like it is an unbereable loss. It would be a huge improvement of the loss taken on the first PS4 sold is around $100. Compared to the PS3 at least.
Proelite
Member
If Sony uses traditional and conservative technology (Nothing equivalent to cell/blu-ray in 2006) in 2013/2014, the PS4 will be incredibly powerful at a $499 BOM.
I made the mistake of using second hand information. It was supposedly in an article back in 2007. Trying to find it.
east of eastside
Banned
MS did recently acquire and ARM architectural license so they obviously have an intent on making an ARM based chip. It could be similar to Apple where it taps the chip expertise of the companies they acquired in producing the A-series processors. In MS case, they may tap outside expertise to co-develop the chip with them.
Not only does MS own the chip, but it would no longer have to give IBM a billion dollars (figuratively speaking) for a processor. Scaled down versions of this chip could be reused later in Windows mobile devices and PC's. All this assuming that MS acquired an ARM license to make a console chip.
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4204863/Microsoft-takes-ARM-license
Lagspike_exe
Member
I don't expect MS nor Sony doing anything crazy for next gen. I think this will be the smallest leap in the history of consoles.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Don't know about the bolded.
There's isn't a PC game in existence that uses more than maybe 1.25GB...and those games are pretty fucking high-fidelity and deeply textured. But hey...3GB would probably be as "future proof" as a console would need to be to last maybe 7 or 8 years.
Proelite
Member
They don't need to do anything "crazy" to make a huge leap. I did rather argue the opposite. Sony could use all that Bluray and Cell budget for more memory and GPU this time around.
Do you have any link or article on that?
infinityBCRT
Member
I don't think its worth it to MS to switch over to ARM (unless they built in some tech into the 360 SDKs which allows them to recompile everything effortlessly to ARM).
It'd be pretty awful if all of your XBLA games didn't work anymore on the next Xbox.
krameriffic
Member
I don't understand why. RAM is absurdly inexpensive. I just took 12 seconds to find a decent 4GB set of GSkill on Newegg for $23.
infinityBCRT
Member
Theres always more things you can do with more RAM... like having more steps between high poly and low poly models which could help eliminate pop in completely and/or increase the amount of perceived detail because no polygons are being wasted at a subpixel level. Or support for LA Noire style MotionScan capture at a higher resolution and with full bodies instead of just heads.
Also, Skyrim is an example where they save a lot on texture space and memory because they heavily recycle textures and make use of tiled textures. Whereas RAGE goes for unique textures but 512MB on the consoles was not nearly enough to support that technology and make it look good when turning fast nor when looking up close at the textures. If you want those textures to look good when turning fast, and up close at 1080p instead of 720p I could see that using more than 1.25GB.
Death Dealer
Member
from now.
Everyone is chomping at the bit. I don't think the economy will impact a next gen launch. Videogame consoles are good entertainment investments.
No, i dont think any compelling exclusive hardcore software is ready for next year. MS could easily be shipping some kits years in advance like Sony did with the Vita so to make prediction for 2012 launch based on that is naive
east of eastside
Banned
That's certainly a point to consider, but there are a lot of benefits to going with ARM. Consider the ARMv8 64bit core in this X-gene implementation is running at 2W/ core at half the performance of Sandy Bridge Xenon: http://www.anandtech.com/show/5098/applied-micros-xgene-the-first-armv8-soc
A design using a multicore solution with an ARMv8 64bit core could really lower the power consumption of a console translating into cost savings and a smaller box.
It is to MS's advantage to try to move to an integrated architecture strategy than continue with a three way split between PPC/X86/ARM, if it can clear the compatibility hurdle.
Proelite
Member
Can we make one console HW thread in which mentioning of cheap PC ram is bannable?
I second this motion.
I know one:
And that game looks like this:
Now, I will admit that this is using a mod that pushes the game far more than in vanilla, but there's clearly use of ram for other things than pretty graphics. EU3 probably isn't the type of game you'd see on consoles anyway though, regardless of how much ram they have.
The contrarian in me would state that lots of companies have ARM architectural licenses. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll use it on an actual released product. Plenty of things get R&D funding at companies, particularly ones the size of MS. Doesn't have to be for Xbox.
Actually this could very easily be for usage with Windows 8. It would not be surprising if MS releases some sort of tablet reference design. As a matter of fact I'm pretty sure rumors have pointed to them doing just that. So really, I think we could be jumping the gun to make assumptions regarding something as ambiguous as an architecture license.
That all said, it does bring up some interesting possibilities. MS is moving forward with this entire '3 screens and the cloud' endeavor. That not only refers to a shared look & feel, but long-term they'd like to get not only shared dev environments, but also some level of kernel sharing.
While the Windows CE kernel has run on just about everything for some time (x86/64, PowerPC, and ARM), mainline Windows has only pulled x86/64 duty. And while Intel as late has made great strides in efficiency, historically x86/64 has simply not been a particularly good fit for a console or set-top box architecture (original Xbox being an anomaly in that regard).
Moving forward, Windows 8 will support ARM - not for legacy software, but for the new Metro 'app'-style content that targets touchscreens and 10' user interfaces. So when you couple the visual direction they are going with as part of 3 screens and the cloud, the idea that they'd like to share more and more dev and kernel software, and the fact Windows 8 supports ARM ...
... suddenly this starts making a bit of sense, assuming they can get the performance they are looking for in a console CPU. Interesting possibilities.
dragonelite
Member
Day fucking one if they do that.
Made a crappy 3D game for graphics 2nd year CS. Assignment was make a 2D puzzle platformer but i just made a 3D game just for the heck of it. No gameplay just me trying to do stuff in 3D it got me a 6 because i didn't had time to implement gameplay. But it was in 3rd person view and with working animation done via the Skinning sample.
Assuming they've adequately abstracted the HW with an API, recompiling for another processor shouldn't be problematic. Do XBLA games code to all that low of a level (to the metal)? Having not dev'd on the system, I don't know ... but I'm not even sure if regular games code all that low. MS is generally keen on this with the intent of portability and dev environment consistency.
Certainly any of the XBLA stuff that uses XNA, (do they use silverlight too?), etc. is completely portable. They are managed languages with the intent of portability.
Don't they already do that for XBLA? While I assume you mean for full-scale development, I suspect the lines between XBLA (PSN too) and full-scale dev will continue to blur quite a bit. Size limitations be pulled back, and tools will continue to improve.
I suspect next gen is going to be even more of a hybrid between big releases on disc, and a huge array of varying sized DD content.
Parmenides
Banned
These guys are far more reliable than Edge:
THQ hints at imminent Wii 2 reveal (Feb 17, 2011)
EA Hints at Wii 2 (March 15, 2011)
THQ: We don't expect new hardware any time soon from either Microsoft or Sony (Feb 17, 2011)
Take - Two: We still have plenty of room to push the limits of creativity in the current console generation (June 3, 2011)
Avalanche Studios: New hardware in 2014 (June 20,2011)
Gearbox: The Wii U as a "really cool stop-gap" between this generation and the next generation of consoles (July 7, 2011)
GameStop: Xbox 720 and PS4 not out until 2014 (July 15,2011)
Epic: no "huge hurry" for next gen,we can continue to hone our skills with PS360 for a few more years (July 20, 2011)
Epic: Wii U is early,one can certainly envision a future a couple years down the road where we have some significantly leapfrogged generation (Aug 4, 2011)
Skyrim boss: No PS4, Xbox 720 before 2014 (3 Aug, 2011)
EA: What would PlayStation 4 even do? (Aug 31, 2011)
Irrational Games: There's A 'Ton of Juice Left' In Current Consoles (November 7, 2011)
-Sony cannot afford to launch new hardware anytime soon (PS Vita is more than enough)Death Dealer said:
-Luckily,since the PS3 is the best worldwide selling console of 2011,publishers and developers are happy,and the system has not even hit a mass market price point yet,Sony doesn't need new hardware anytime soon
-Moreover, in these situations,the price is always the most reliable source
-Microsoft is in an a similar position: home consoles have lost Microsoft literally billions of dollars;however Xbox 360 sales right now are fantastic in the U.S., publishers and developers are happy, Microsoft still has plenty of room to cut prices and the global economy is very sick
-I understand your point of view.You need something new and exciting,however the industry needs to make sound decisions to keep going: several manufacturers,publishers and developers have lost billions of dollars, lot of studios have been closed,lot of talented people get fired...now the PS360 business is at the peak of its power and people want to start from scratch? From a business point of view it would be madness.That's why I believe those rumors are fake,but we'll have to wait.
bgassassin
Member
Can we make one console HW thread in which mentioning of cheap PC ram is bannable?
*endorsed*
You got this post saved some where? You keep posting it and the ones dealing with MS and Sony are nothing but opinions. They have about as much credibility as some of these rumors.
XNA doesn't currently do that now. You compile on the pc and can run it on the 360 through a network setup. You can't actually run C#/XNA on the 360 and code though.
-ImaginaryInsider
Member
This is a common misconception, the 360 doesn't have billion+ dollar debit it needs to pay back. Arne explained it once, MS as a company is profitable, the losses incurred in previous generations fiscal year don't carry over to the next fiscal year. Even with RROD, the 360/Live has been very profitable for MS, with the success of Kinect, they could easily market the 360 has a cheaper family friendly "Kinect Box", and price drop accordingly.
I'd prefer a 2013/2014, but leaving a more hardcore focused WiiU in the market that long isn't really smart on MS' part. More than likely MS has planned for any where from a 2012 to a 2014 launch, and have various possible hardware configurations based on when it made the most sense to launch.
I can imagine a year before the 360 launch, Peter Moore at his desk with the company credit card and ordering huge amounts of ram stick on newegg...
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