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[Raistlin]

But console hardware doesn't change...unless there's settings for 60 fps - some effects vs 30 fps + all effects

That's what I'm referring to.


Granted, I'd love if you can do things like set the AA amount, AF amount, effects, resolution, etc. All to get what you feel is the best balance between the IQ and effects you personally prefer, and the framerate.

The reality is they might be scared to offer that and instead abstract things a bit (low and high or something)? Hopefully we even get that :\

Rage drops it's resolution by half during intense gameplay. I haven't heard too many complaints about the resolution.

So are you advocating variable resolutions then? Because it sounded like you were referring to 720p all the way through.

Regarding rage though, most people probably don't notice because they're playing on LCD's wish shit temporal resolution to begin with. Not everyone plays on displays with crap motion handling

 

[Proelite]

So are you advocating variable framerates then? Because it sounded like you were referring to 720p all the way through.

You mean variable resolution? 720-1080p, but 60 fps constant.

 

[Raistlin]

You mean variable resolution? 720-1080p, but 60 fps constant.

I edited - sorry for the typo. I meant variable resolution.


Just to note, dropping half would mean lower than 720p. I certainly wouldn't want that much movement.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

For tax, financial statement, etc. purposes, sure ... but as a business things aren't quite that simple.

Now for the people keeping a running tally that includes the original Xbox losses, certainly that is silly ... but of course a company looks back at the current generation as a whole when planing the design, marketing, and targeting of their next console. Obviously if market analysis shows the current generation is going to end in the red, they don't just go 'hey guys, let's do the same thing this time'. That's crazy talk.

Similar, if successive generations are in the red, they're going to reconsider whether it makes sense to go on unless their continued market presence (even at a loss) is a net positive for the company due to its impact on other sectors of the company.

I don't think we're disagreeing, I'm def not in the "MS has so much money, it doesn't care what Xbox/360/Xbox-Next does" camp.

Of course MS looks at past data/numbers to spot trends and figure out where they need to be, but there is no ongoing R&D debit that the Xbox Division alone will have to specifically have to pay back in a certain time frame. MS spent a lot of money on Courier and a million other projects that will never see the light of day, but it's not like those Division's employees have to wash dishes until they make that money back.

 

[Raistlin]

but it's not like those Division's employees have to wash dishes until they make that money back.

hahaha it'd be pretty interesting if businesses were ran that way

 

[Lonely1]

Its not that they're disinterested, its the fact that they've burnt so many bridges over the years. If you were Sony, would you have been happy with the outdated POS Nvidia pawned off to you?

Its well documented how Nvidia royally screwed over MS with the original Xbox and considering the lengths AMD went to deliver above and beyond with Xenos, why exactly would Microsoft consider anyone else?

CELL's probably going to bork up BC for Sony anyway, might as well make a clean break on the GPU side, given the chance.

At this point, the safest bet is that AMD will be in all three consoles next generation, just like IBM was in all three this generation. For Sony's direction, you need to look at what they're doing with Vita.

But, could Sony go for a PowerVR solution again?

 

[CLEEK]

Maybe they do, I don't really know TBH. I just have a feeling Sony will want/need to keep thing's as simple as possible. Better the devil you know?

Whatever CPU/GPU combo they've gone for, I'd imagine it's a done deal. Just waiting for leaks..........*Taps fingers*

The only reason to think that the PS4 CPU and GPU providers haven't been set in stone already is because they haven't been leaked yet. I know that security will be high on Sony's agenda after the PSN issues this year, but they hardly have form in being able to keep a secret. The PSV being based on a specific PowerVR GPU was leaked 2 years before the handheld's specs were formally announced.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-psp2-features-quad-core-gpu-blog-entry

 

[BurntPork]

I edited - sorry for the typo. I meant variable resolution.


Just to note, dropping half would mean lower than 720p. I certainly wouldn't want that much movement.

720p is ~44% of 1080p.

 

[AuthenticM]

I really hope they do enforce 1080p. That's the resolution we'll need in order to fully appreciate all of those pretty graphics.

 

[Jtrizzy]

I'd be ok with 720p60, especially if the alternative is 1080p and the sub 30 or whatever current gen consoles are currently shitting out. I have one of the best 1080p plasmas around, but 720 still looks good. Assuming its actually 1280x720 lol.

 

[Raide]

I'd be ok with 720p60, especially if the alternative is 1080p and the sub 30 or whatever current gen consoles are currently shitting out. I have one of the best 1080p plasmas around, but 720 still looks good. Assuming its actually 1280x720 lol.

true720p (Not some sub 720p trickery) and 60fps + all those fancy effects and graphical tricks would be ideal. I am sure some Developers will push 1080p +60fps + tricks and those will be the likes of Epic but stable 60 framerate, 720 and no screen-tear would be a big jump for next gen.

 

[Mrbob]

I'm gaming in 1080P right now on my PC with what should be worse hardware than what the Nextbox will have. No way 720P is acceptable. 1080P native on everything or next gen is a bust.

I have a 1080P TV. I don't want another generation of mostly scaled 720P games.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

The only reason to think that the PS4 CPU and GPU providers haven't been set in stone already is because they haven't been leaked yet. I know that security will be high on Sony's agenda after the PSN issues this year, but they hardly have form in being able to keep a secret. The PSV being based on a specific PowerVR GPU was leaked 2 years before the handheld's specs were formally announced.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-psp2-features-quad-core-gpu-blog-entry

I really do hope the devs that post here start dropping hints!

In that link it link's this: http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=412 So the Vita was a "done" deal over three years before going on sale anywhere.

 

[Raistlin]

The only reason to think that the PS4 CPU and GPU providers haven't been set in stone already is because they haven't been leaked yet. I know that security will be high on Sony's agenda after the PSN issues this year, but they hardly have form in being able to keep a secret. The PSV being based on a specific PowerVR GPU was leaked 2 years before the handheld's specs were formally announced.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-psp2-features-quad-core-gpu-blog-entry

For all we know, things haven't even been decided yet.

 

[pestul]

I'm gaming in 1080P right now on my PC with what should be worse hardware than what the Nextbox will have. No way 720P is acceptable. 1080P native on everything or next gen is a bust.

I have a 1080P TV. I don't want another generation of mostly scaled 720P games.

I agree, and I don't think it is something we will have to worry about. The games will be 1080p. I don't even think WiiU is going to drop to 720p in many cases..

 

[J-Rzez]

I really do hope the devs that post here start dropping hints!.

Actually, "IF" 2012 is the real deal with next-gen hardware, I'm impressed we haven't received any solid leaks yet. That's quite impressive for the gaming industry. Maybe they also upgraded their ninjas as well. Perhaps vampiric ninja werewolves?

Also, I've noticed there really hasn't been a building console war to boot. Have gamers come to more tolerance in the scene? Maybe some skirmishes will occur around E3, but there's no signs of armies forming yet. Maybe it's that Sony and MS fans have made a truce to join up readying against both of their two common enemies?

That said, I gotta go to E3 this time. I passed it up before, but this time I think I'd attend if I get the same opportunity.

 

[CharmingCharlie]

I'm gaming in 1080P right now on my PC with what should be worse hardware than what the Nextbox will have. No way 720P is acceptable. 1080P native on everything or next gen is a bust.

I have a 1080P TV. I don't want another generation of mostly scaled 720P games.

I was gaming at 1280 x 1024 on the PC a couple of years before the Xbox 360 and PS3 hit the shelves and the best they could manage was 1280 x 720 on 90% of games. Now granted 1280 x 1024 isn't a "standard" TV resolution but the thing is this generation of consoles has struggled to even meet the standard 720p. Just because we can do it on the PC does not make it feasible financially or technically for consoles to do it as well.

 

[teh_pwn]

1080p has been on PCs for years. If the next consoles can't handle it, then the hardware is intentionally gimped. The tech can do it at a low cost.

 

[edible_candle]

1080p has been on PCs for years. If the next consoles can't handle it, then the hardware is intentionally gimped. The tech can do it at a low cost.

The current generation of consoles can output 1080p perfectly well... just not with great visual effects.

 

[knitoe]

1080p has been on PCs for years. If the next consoles can't handle it, then the hardware is intentionally gimped. The tech can do it at a low cost.

Current gen can do 1080p, but they don't because better graphics, frame rate and etc. are more important. Even on PCs, if you have a weak computer, you need to run lower res to get the desire graphic and/or frame rate. I can easily see this happen again on the next gen consoles.

 

[teh_pwn]

Current gen can do 1080p, but they don't because better graphics, frame rate and etc. are more important. Even on PCs, if you have a weak computer, you need to run lower res to get the desire graphic and/or frame rate. I can easily see this happen again on the next gen consoles.

An AMD 5850 can render at 1080p just fine. It may not be able to set shadows to max, enable tessellation, etc, but it can do simple stuff at 1080p. Games this generation cannot.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

Drive performance is the primary limiter in a streaming engine, not memory size.

The point he made was that they had to stream everything because of the small Ram. The PC Version on the highest setting preloads everything to the RAM so they didn`t need to stream.

 

[DonMigs85]

720p with perfect AA and 60FPS is pretty decent. I got to try Burnout Paradise on a 60 inch Kuro a couple years back and it looked superb. Of course 1080p is still preferred, especially for larger displays.

 

[Zabka]

Next generation's games will be just like this gen's. Expect a wide variety of odd resolutions between 720p and 1080p with all different types/levels of AA.

 

[subversus]

Next generation's games will be just like this gen's. Expect a wide variety of odd resolutions between 600p and 720p with all different types/levels of AA.

fixed

 

[teh_pwn]

fixed

More like 540-720p

 

[Proelite]

If a studio can do Avatar like graphics at 720p 30fps they will do it. And it will be glorious. Do you guys watch Avatar and think, "Man this movie will be even better if it was in 1080p!".

 

[BurntPork]

fixed

Sad truth. :/

Avatar like graphics

:lol

 

[Proelite]

:lol

AMD said it, I expect that to be the absolute minimum for next generation.

Screw Samaritan.

 

[abuC]

Enforcing 1080p is stupid. In action heavy sequences you won't notice the difference between 720p and 1080p. I did rather them enforce 60fps.

I don't know about that, I had been playing BF3 on ultra settings in 720p for 2 weeks after it came out. I couldn't get the game to run in 1080p until last week when an issue with my theme/browser was fixed and it was a huge difference.

 

[thuway]

Running a game in 1080p usually eliminates the use of AA. Jaggies are heavily reduced while everything improves dramatically.

 

[Majanew]

If a studio can do Avatar like graphics at 720p 30fps they will do it. And it will be glorious. Do you guys watch Avatar and think, "Man this movie will be even better if it was in 1080p!".

Exactly. Avatar on DVD in 480p crushes all games at 1080p.

 

[Zeal]

Enforcing 1080p is stupid. In action heavy sequences you won't notice the difference between 720p and 1080p. I did rather them enforce 60fps.

Sorry, but this is just made of fail and ignorance.

 

[ElFly]

Exactly. Avatar on DVD in 480p crushes all games at 1080p.

Except whenever the camera pans and it becomes powerpoint time.

 

[coldfoot]

Sorry, but this is just made of fail and ignorance.

It's unfortunately true for most people. Their screen size/viewing distance combination results in little benefit for 1080p over 720p. Once 70" TV's are more common and cheaper, this might change hopefully.

 

[dragonelite]

It's unfortunately true for most people. Their screen size/viewing distance combination results in little benefit for 1080p over 720p. Once 70" TV's are more common and cheaper, this might change hopefully.

Kinda like going from 640p to 720p.
Going from 720p and 1080p is a major upgrade and should be a standard just like 60 fps.
If they cant bring that or xna day one im not buying it then i can just as easy spend 500 euro on getting new mobo and cpu or something.

 

[CrankyKong]

An AMD 5850 can render at 1080p just fine. It may not be able to set shadows to max, enable tessellation, etc, but it can do simple stuff at 1080p. Games this generation cannot.

But a 5850 isn't weak.

 

[thuway]

Does anyone else think we'll see a modified resolution become more common?

1280 X 1080p?

 

[vg260]

I'm gaming in 1080P right now on my PC with what should be worse hardware than what the Nextbox will have. No way 720P is acceptable. 1080P native on everything or next gen is a bust.

I have a 1080P TV. I don't want another generation of mostly scaled 720P games.

This. 1080p needs to be the standard.

 

[Unregistered007]

Come to think about it, there is no freaking way that a new xbox is coming out in 2012.

If the developers only have target hardware specs.

I can live with the fact that the projects have started.

 

[AzaK]

You've got to be kidding.

I'm not advocating requiring it, but you've got to be nuts if you think native 1080p vs 720p content is not noticeable. This isn't a movie that's down-sampled from a higher resolution source. Unless you have a tiny TV or sit in another room while playing (yes, I'm exaggerating for effect), it's going to be quite obvious.

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter

You gotta have a pretty big TV before it's noticeable.

 

[Mindlog]

Its not that they're disinterested, its the fact that they've burnt so many bridges over the years. If you were Sony, would you have been happy with the outdated POS Nvidia pawned off to you?

Its well documented how Nvidia royally screwed over MS with the original Xbox and considering the lengths AMD went to deliver above and beyond with Xenos, why exactly would Microsoft consider anyone else?

CELL's probably going to bork up BC for Sony anyway, might as well make a clean break on the GPU side, given the chance.

At this point, the safest bet is that AMD will be in all three consoles next generation, just like IBM was in all three this generation. For Sony's direction, you need to look at what they're doing with Vita.

I definitely agree with all of that. I was framing NVidia's past troubles as a sign of indifference. Maybe it's a sign that this stuff is harder than it looks. I really don't know.

Quite a few people (me) anticipated that they would at least get a portable win with a Tegra variant. It didn't quite deliver as promised, but they got the hardware into quite a few tablets and phones.

It just seems like if they were really interested they would get more aggressive with friendlier contracts. Again though I have no idea if they have been doing this or not.

 

[AzaK]

Exactly. Avatar on DVD in 480p crushes all games at 1080p.

I've been saying this for ages. We've been watching 480P for years and it's been stellar. It's the abilities of the machine that matter most, not the resolution IMO. A movie is like having an almost infinitely capable GPU

Except whenever the camera pans and it becomes powerpoint time.

I assume you're talking about the jitters? If so, that's a problem with the fact it's 24fps

 

[Raistlin]

http://carltonbale.com/1080p-does-matter

You gotta have a pretty big TV before it's noticeable.

Smh

 

[Raide]

Does anyone else think we'll see a modified resolution become more common?

1280 X 1080p?

Doubtful. Since the majority of consoles are build around TV tech, they will stick to 720 and 1080. Also most TV's are still 16:9, so 16:10 is pretty much reserved for PC users.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Doubtful. Since the majority of consoles are build around TV tech, they will stick to 720 and 1080. Also most TV's are still 16:9, so 16:10 is pretty much reserved for PC users.

Some games already use it. What happens is that the resolution gets "stretched" horizontally but the full range of vertical lines are rendered (final resolution is still 1920 x 1080. The idea is that people are less sensitive to low horizontal resolution than they are to vertical resolution, so aren't as prone to noticing that it's not full-HD.

 

[Globox_82]

The only reason to think that the PS4 CPU and GPU providers haven't been set in stone already is because they haven't been leaked yet. I know that security will be high on Sony's agenda after the PSN issues this year, but they hardly have form in being able to keep a secret. The PSV being based on a specific PowerVR GPU was leaked 2 years before the handheld's specs were formally announced.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-psp2-features-quad-core-gpu-blog-entry

There was a rumour about PS4 using PowerVR GPU. Let me google it...

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...venaarde-graphics/&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

"IMGTEC's PowerVR technology uses an advance technique called TBDR All which can outperform a competing product from IMR nVidia / ATi by 3-5 fold whilst Maintaining the equal size and pricepoint. TBDR was the primary reason the SEGA DreamCast was capable of such astonishing graphical feats as early as 1998. TBDR was the primary reason the Sega Dreamcast was capable of astonishing graphical Such feats as early as 1998."

https://www.google.com/search?q=ps4...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

 

[duk]

avatar at 480p? barf

 

[thuway]

There was a rumour about PS4 using PowerVR GPU. Let me google it...

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...venaarde-graphics/&sl=nl&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

"IMGTEC's PowerVR technology uses an advance technique called TBDR All which can outperform a competing product from IMR nVidia / ATi by 3-5 fold whilst Maintaining the equal size and pricepoint. TBDR was the primary reason the SEGA DreamCast was capable of such astonishing graphical feats as early as 1998. TBDR was the primary reason the Sega Dreamcast was capable of astonishing graphical Such feats as early as 1998."

https://www.google.com/search?q=ps4...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

I will eat my hat if anyone goes with Power VR for their next big GPU in their console. It would have made sense for Nintendo, but Sony? I don't think so. They want high performance. Power VR is made strictly for smaller devices.

 

[Globox_82]

I will eat my hat if anyone goes with Power VR for their next big GPU in their console. It would have made sense for Nintendo, but Sony? I don't think so. They want high performance. Power VR is made strictly for smaller devices.

I think this rumor was probably half true. Only part untrue is that it is not for PS4, it is for Vita.
Vita is using PowerVr and is getting released in 2012(outside Japan). Probably this person heard something about "next Playstation device" and assumed it is PS4. My take on this.