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Windows Phone 7 |OT|

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brotkasten said:
There are tons of great looking iOS apps, sure, but I've also seen enough shitty looking iOS apps to disagree with you.
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It wasn't meant to be a blanket statement. There's just a much higher percentage of designers on the platform in comparison to others. Most of them were carried over from the Mac.
 
giga said:
It wasn't meant to be a blanket statement. There's just a much higher percentage of designers on the platform in comparison to others. Most of them were carried over from the Mac.
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Assuming by "designers" you mean people that know how to make stuff looks good, then why would there be a higher percentage within iOS developers? That's a bit of a generalization, as brotkasten mentioned there is some ugly stuff in the App Store, just like everywhere else. I hope you do not mean the chliche that graphic artists have to work on a Mac to be considered as good graphic artists.
 
derFeef said:
Assuming by "designers" you mean people that know how to make stuff looks good, then why would there be a higher percentage within iOS developers? That's a bit of a generalization, as brotkasten mentioned there is some ugly stuff in the App Store, just like everywhere else. I hope you do not mean the chliche that graphic artists have to work on a Mac to be considered as good graphic artists.
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No, design isn't just how something looks. That's just one part of it. Function and user experience are just as important.

Why is there a higher percentage? I don't know. I didn't say anything that you have to have a Mac to be a good designer. It's just that most designers that I know and have observed do use Macs because that was the original platform for them. Steve Jobs and his obsessions in both software and hardware might have helped further too. Since the territory is familiar, we probably saw a natural progression from them developing OS X apps to iOS apps as well.
 
Windows phone has a strong emphasis on design with metro. I don't think we can continue to assume that ios has a monopoly on well designed software. I've seen a remarkable attention to design on wp7 from 3rd party apps considering its so different from the ios/android paradigm.
 
giga said:
He's absolutely right though. Apple developers (OS X and iOS) are obsessed with design and that might be "funny" to you but it's crucial to me.
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I find it funny because he says that the wonderful UI that Microsoft has created isn't enough and they have to make special effort to woo iOS developers. Are Cocoa developers obsessed with design or are they obsessed with Apple? I'd like to think it's the former but then why do they need special pleading before trying their hand at this new much praised design language? There's the excuse of WP7's market share but then that didn't stop Cocoa developers from sticking to Apple's platform in the earlier days...
 
derFeef said:
Assuming by "designers" you mean people that know how to make stuff looks good, then why would there be a higher percentage within iOS developers? That's a bit of a generalization, as brotkasten mentioned there is some ugly stuff in the App Store, just like everywhere else. I hope you do not mean the chliche that graphic artists have to work on a Mac to be considered as good graphic artists.
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rage
giga said:
No, design isn't just how something looks. That's just one part of it. Function and user experience are just as important.

Why is there a higher percentage? I don't know. I didn't say anything that you have to have a Mac to be a good designer. It's just that most designers that I know and have observed do use Macs because that was the original platform for them. Steve Jobs and his obsessions in both software and hardware might have helped further too. Since the territory is familiar, we probably saw a natural progression from them developing OS X apps to iOS apps as well.
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More of a historical thing as well I think. I mean, Windows 7 didn't come out until very recently and before that Windows was a very utilitarian sort of system. People used to it loved it, but if you used a Mac (as did most designers back in Adobe and Apple's <3 days), it wasn't worth switching to at all. I see more MacBooks than Windows laptops at school and I'm now one of them. I honestly do think OSX is a better designed portable platform than Windows now that I've spent time with both, and laptops are what most people use these days.

But yeah, once in the Apple ecosystem, and after 3 or 4 years of iOS being the only well-designed mobile OS in the market, people are obviously going to gravitate towards creating iOS apps rather than WP7 apps. It's interesting because I consider Windows Phone to be the OS X of mobile. iOS feels like the Windows of mobile to me. Android can be Linus and BlackBerry is Windows XP :P
 
Guys I have somewhat of a dilemma. I love the Titan. What I love most is the screen size, the more accurate colors, the camera and just the fact that it feels and looks like a more premium device. But im thinking about exchanging it for a Focus S. I'm getting much worse signal on my Titan even compared to my original Focus. I've received comments on several occasions that I don't sound very clear. Also I'm not particularly happy about the battery life. I stream music to Bluetooth speakers just about all day at work and im lucky to make it through a full work day. 50% better battery life with the Focus S would be amazing. Not sure what I should do. Anyone else having signal issues?
 
Greyface said:
I find it funny because he says that the wonderful UI that Microsoft has created isn't enough and they have to make special effort to woo iOS developers. Are Cocoa developers obsessed with design or are they obsessed with Apple? I'd like to think it's the former but then why do they need special pleading before trying their hand at this new much praised design language? There's the excuse of WP7's market share but then that didn't stop Cocoa developers from sticking to Apple's platform in the earlier days...
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I'd say both. Apple appeals to designers because that's in their DNA as well. Don't forget that developing for WP7 would require them to actually buy and use Windows, in addition to learning a very different platform.

Why are we limiting ourselves to Cocoa developers anyway? They're far outnumbered by developers on the Windows platform. Those guys should be learning the importance of design and applying that to their apps.
 
giga said:
I'd say both. Apple appeals to designers because that's in their DNA as well. Don't forget that developing for WP7 would require them to actually buy and use Windows, in addition to learning a very different platform.

Why are we limiting ourselves to Cocoa developers anyway? They're far outnumbered by developers on the Windows platform. Those guys should be learning the importance of design and applying that to their apps.
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On a related note, what's Microsoft's version of the ADA?
 
I think we just need more of the "Metro" in Cocktail Flow and less of the generic crap that is in most applications.
 
PSGames said:
Anyone else having signal issues?
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No, it seems to work fine here.

Must admit to have fallen a little in love with the operating system used in Windows Phone. It's slick and smooth and the "living tiles" make IOS seem old and static. Such an unusually nice user experience, a far cry from what Microsoft are offering on the 360 or PC.

But they need more apps. Marketplace is a desert compared to the IOS Appstore.
 
Korey said:
so people with a lumia 800, do you notice the pentile grid?
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I noticed it when I had the phone for few hours, but it didn't seem as bad as on the OG Focus or Omnia 7. Could be due to the higher pixel density or my imagination (didn't have the Samsung with me).
 
Joe Moody, Orange:

"This phone is the best phone out there by far. I have managed to switch 15 customers within a week to pre order the Lumia, I love the device so much I can’t wait to get one when I’m due a new phone, the customers that are interested in apple iPhones or galaxy s 2 I manage to persuade some to go for a Lumia."​

Ian McLaren, Carphone Warehouse:

"The Lumia is flying off the shelves, especially from one who has really taken the training on board and pitching them to everyone. The main things that are selling the phone are the design, superb screen and the way the social networks are integrated into the phone OS so don’t need to keep switching apps and all the messages are compiled into one thread.​

From a standing start, Nokia have really grabbed people’s attention with the Lumia and the advertising is starting to pay off as people are coming in and asking about the handset, and asking to upgrade to it."​

Bill Bennett, Three UK:

"I lose track of the number of people who I speak to who want an iPhone. Well, at least they think they do. It’s amazing how, once people have played with a Lumia for a minute or two, they lose all desire for anything Appley. As one lady put to me… 'the iPhone doesn’t come in blue – it won’t match my handbag'."​

Matt Rampersad, Orange:

"Yesterday I showed a customer how easy it was to use the voice control, they were amazed because you can open every application on the phone just by your voice! And it even reads out your texts if you want! What a clever device."​
Click to expand...

It's good to see that Nokia is investing Microsoft's marketing money wisely.
 
I don't know what a pentile grid is... so no, I don't notice it. :)

One thing I do notice that annoys me though, where my finger has left a smudge (apparently I have greasy fingers or something), it seems to make the text underneath blurry. I've never had that with a touchscreen before so I can only assume it's something to do with the coating or something.

Very odd.
 
Started messing with the developer tools last night and it is pretty great how easy they made it to at least enter the field. Hoping to keep learning and possibly produce something worthwhile after awhile.

After a week or two of use, the OS works much better for me than iOS did. It's smooth, pretty, and it groups things up (like chat) in a way that feels so much more efficient and user friendly. The only disappointing things so far is that the Facebook app is trash (luckily me/people is usable) and Alien News (reddit) isn't so great either. Plus the lack of games, but that I can get over. Facebook and Reddit is what I do most on my phone during downtime, and having to constantly reload the reddit app at the top page instead of where I just was is dreadful.
 
Psychotext said:
I don't know what a pentile grid is... so no, I don't notice it. :)

One thing I do notice that annoys me though, where my finger has left a smudge (apparently I have greasy fingers or something), it seems to make the text underneath blurry. I've never had that with a touchscreen before so I can only assume it's something to do with the coating or something.

Very odd.
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hmm... I wonder what type of oleophobic coating Nokia is using... Do you sometimes see a rainbow effect? I noticed that occasionally on my Dell Venue Pro. I don't think it's the AMOLED technology though; it's also an very bad problem afflicting the iPod Touch 4th Gen (which is one of the main reasons I stopped using that device for reading).
 
Klocker said:
sorry yes. I meant track skip does not work but pause play and volume do on my stock Samsung buds that came with my original Focus (and the focus S Set as well)
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Track skip work the same for me on Titan (using Samsung Focus headset). You double press on the pause track and it skip to next track.

Only headphone so far I can't get it to work are those made for iPod/Pad but I only have one pair to test it on.

PSGames said:
Guys I have somewhat of a dilemma. I love the Titan. What I love most is the screen size, the more accurate colors, the camera and just the fact that it feels and looks like a more premium device. But im thinking about exchanging it for a Focus S. I'm getting much worse signal on my Titan even compared to my original Focus. I've received comments on several occasions that I don't sound very clear. Also I'm not particularly happy about the battery life. I stream music to Bluetooth speakers just about all day at work and im lucky to make it through a full work day. 50% better battery life with the Focus S would be amazing. Not sure what I should do. Anyone else having signal issues?
Click to expand...


I am also in the camp of having 2nd thought about the Titan. I like the big screen size, the solid feel of the set. My reception is good if not better than Focus and so is the battery life but I am having issue with blu-tooth with my car. The on-off button really is becoming annoying on the Titan. It's very difficult to turn phone on in a hurry. Also I miss the light weight of Focus after prolong used along with the Amoled deep black ... and I while I like the big screen for reading, it's just way too big. I find it difficult to operate with one hand.

I will give it couple more week and see ... may be I will go to work with old Focus tomorrow and see if I prefer smaller phone.
 
brotkasten said:
It's good to see that Nokia is investing Microsoft's marketing money wisely.
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Yeah, it's too bad Microsoft own Windows Phone department doesn't know how to invest it's own money. Instead of spending million erecting stupid giant phone in New York, their money would have been better spend training people that sell phone such as those on their so call premier carrier partner so they would push Windows Phone as an alternative instead of always tell people to get an Android when they don't want iPhone.
 
I think we will eventually settle on the focus s being the best second gen phone until the 900 shows up. It just won't be as clear cut as the first gen, where the focus was the obvious choice. And yes, I'm referring to north America only.
 
I fear I'm too late to get this information to the people talking about it but the transport controls on the headphone thing works on almost all phones. My OG Focus came with a volume control capable headset and track skipping works just fine.

I believe most phone support the standard transport control 3.5mm jack.

This is not an Apple thing, unless that comment was facetious, in which case it's really hard to read that intent in text.
 
kazinova said:
I fear I'm too late to get this information to the people talking about it but the transport controls on the headphone thing works on almost all phones. My OG Focus came with a volume control capable headset and track skipping works just fine.

I believe most phone support the standard transport control 3.5mm jack.

This is not an Apple thing, unless that comment was facetious, in which case it's really hard to read that intent in text.
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I actually thought it was patented or something because the market is flooded with headphones that have volume controls or the pause button/microphone that make transport possible but not both. I had a nokia headset (with a crappy propriety connection) that did transport control and volume in 2006, can't understand for the life of me why it's not standard in all headsets.

Can you find the ones you have online somewhere? I'll go into a store and try them out on my lumia.
 
VanMardigan said:
I think we will eventually settle on the focus s being the best second gen phone until the 900 shows up. It just won't be as clear cut as the first gen, where the focus was the obvious choice. And yes, I'm referring to north America only.
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Last time I checked, the Focus S was still the best Windows Phone worldwide. Europe didn't get the Focus S and the Lumia 800 can't beat the S, when it comes to the hardware (pentile display, no FFC, bulkier).
 
antiquegamer said:
Track skip work the same for me on Titan (using Samsung Focus headset). You double press on the pause track and it skip to next track.

Only headphone so far I can't get it to work are those made for iPod/Pad but I only have one pair to test it on.




I am also in the camp of having 2nd thought about the Titan. I like the big screen size, the solid feel of the set. My reception is good if not better than Focus and so is the battery life but I am having issue with blu-tooth with my car. The on-off button really is becoming annoying on the Titan. It's very difficult to turn phone on in a hurry. Also I miss the light weight of Focus after prolong used along with the Amoled deep black ... and I while I like the big screen for reading, it's just way too big. I find it difficult to operate with one hand.

I will give it couple more week and see ... may be I will go to work with old Focus tomorrow and see if I prefer smaller phone.
Click to expand...
Well I'll be. It works on Titan but Not on Focus S using the Samsung oem bud

I love everything about titan except yes in real world business use I am having issues with unwieldiness of the charger and heandset in the car but the biggest drawback is that clients say I sound muffled on titan. Focus s call quality is definitely brighter
 
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57335807-94/verizons-big-plans-for-4g-next-year/

For Verizon, the biggest problem with Windows Phone is the lack of support for LTE. Microsoft has said it would add LTE support, but hasn't been specified as to when.

"We've communicated to Microsoft that LTE is critical to us," she said. "We need to see a timeline that makes sense if we want to continue to represent them."

Given Verizon's LTE focus, it'll be hard to see a handset maker successfully convince Verizon to take a chance on a 3G Windows Phone product.
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Guess that confirms what we always assumed. No more Verizon until LTE support is added. Kind of weird that they don't have a timeline yet, all the rumors point to Tango in early 2012. Guess we'll see.
 
PG2G said:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57335807-94/verizons-big-plans-for-4g-next-year/



Guess that confirms what we always assumed. No more Verizon until LTE support is added. Kind of weird that they don't have a timeline yet, all the rumors point to Tango in early 2012. Guess we'll see.
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Not surprising and I'm sure it was already mentioned earlier in this thread, that releasing a smartphone without LTE doesn't make much sense for Verizon. They don't have fake 4G like AT&T and T-Mobile.
 
brotkasten said:
Last time I checked, the Focus S was still the best Windows Phone worldwide. Europe didn't get the Focus S and the Lumia 800 can't beat the S, when it comes to the hardware (pentile display, no FFC, bulkier).
Click to expand...
I didn't want to generalize since I haven't handled the lumia. If it wasn't for the problems I've had getting good pictures, I'd love this phone unconditionally.
 
VanMardigan said:
I think we will eventually settle on the focus s being the best second gen phone until the 900 shows up. It just won't be as clear cut as the first gen, where the focus was the obvious choice. And yes, I'm referring to north America only.
Click to expand...

For me it's clearly the Titan. I think it's better than the Focus S in every way for my tastes.
 
Steelyuhas said:
For me it's clearly the Titan. I think it's better than the Focus S in every way for my tastes.
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I soooo want to love the titan but the call quality is a deal breaker for me. I may give it another go soon and get feedback from clients and decide before I exchange or trade... what I'm wondering is if I trade my 30 day return in can I get a credit to go toward a phone to be announced later?

Nokia 900
:D
 
JaggedSac said:
No problem with the build quality? That back piece was kinda flimsy when I messed with it at the AT&T store?
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I have a funny story about the build quality issue on the Focus S:

When I first brought it into the office, a friend of mine immediately pointed out how it felt "cheap". He said that he didn't like plastic phones because they felt too cheap. So I pointed out that the phone he had been using for two years was a plastic iPhone 3GS, he actually didn't even realize what he had just said. He had to pull his case off and tap the back of the phone to ensure that it was plastic. We even coined a new term to define the distortion force field he experienced on the iPhone case: Apple Plastic.

Point being, plastic can be durable, and Samsung plastic phones have proven sufficiently durable to live out a phone contract.

edit:
One's for a service that is worthless on your phone.
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How is it worthless on the phone?
 
brotkasten said:
One's for a service that is worthless on your phone.
The other turns your phone into an Xbox remote.
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It is pretty useful if you have Xbox 360. I can always check and see if my kids are on Xbox. Check who is on line, send message via Xbox, check achievements etc. But if you mean the multi player implementation and lack of cross function with 360, then I am wholehearty agree.
 
Klocker said:
I soooo want to love the titan but the call quality is a deal breaker for me. I may give it another go soon and get feedback from clients and decide before I exchange or trade... what I'm wondering is if I trade my 30 day return in can I get a credit to go toward a phone to be announced later?

Nokia 900
:D
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Haven't had a single complaint. I also agree with the Titan being the best of the Gen 2 devices.
 
hwalker84 said:
Haven't had a single complaint. I also agree with the Titan being the best of the Gen 2 devices.
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no muffled sound?

I made about 6 calls to my voicemail last night from each device and then had those recordings sent to my email so I could listen to them over and over in any order.

Focus was always clear(er) and brighter and while there was little hiss r background noise in either, titan was muffled, (side tone was what it was described as in the Cnet review)

you had to listen very carefully to hear all the details.
 
VanMardigan said:
I have a funny story about the build quality issue on the Focus S:

When I first brought it into the office, a friend of mine immediately pointed out how it felt "cheap". He said that he didn't like plastic phones because they felt too cheap. So I pointed out that the phone he had been using for two years was a plastic iPhone 3GS, he actually didn't even realize what he had just said. He had to pull his case off and tap the back of the phone to ensure that it was plastic. We even coined a new term to define the distortion force field he experienced on the iPhone case: Apple Plastic.

Point being, plastic can be durable, and Samsung plastic phones have proven sufficiently durable to live out a phone contract.

edit:


How is it worthless on the phone?
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I renb watching a samsung XII vs iPhone 4 drop test. And I was surprised how durable the X II was.
 
Klocker said:
no muffled sound?

I made about 6 calls to my voicemail last night from each device and then had those recordings sent to my email so I could listen to them over and over in any order.

Focus was always clear(er) and brighter and while there was little hiss r background noise in either, titan was muffled, (side tone was what it was described as in the Cnet review)

you had to listen very carefully to hear all the details.
Click to expand...

I haven't had any issues with call quality either.
 
Steelyuhas said:
I haven't had any issues with call quality either.
Click to expand...

there were about half of the titan calls that sounded fairly good (still not as clear as focus s), the other half extremely muffled

one each you could tell was just a bad call connection


trust me I was disappointed. I had just decided the titan was going to work for me and then I got a few complaints and decided to test.
 
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