Digital Foundry VS Bethesda: PS3 Skyrim is still shit

Sites like IGN saying stuff about it now doesn't help me at all. It would've been great to know these things before I bought it. It's a little too late to matter for the million or whatever people who bought it for PS3 already.

Don't you love that you can't return defective products when it comes to games?
It doesn't matter how good Skyrim is. I don't care if it's the best game ever. Bethesda doesn't deserve a penny of my money for what they did to me as a PS3 owner. Shame on me for letting them steal my $60. Shame on the media for not saying a word about it until weeks after the fact. Tell me while you're reviewing the PC/360 version that Bethesda didn't send you the PS3 version you asked for. Don't tell me way after you gave the PS3 version the same score as the other SKUs.
 
frequency said:
Sites like IGN saying stuff about it now doesn't help me at all. It would've been great to know these things before I bought it. It's a little too late to matter for the million or whatever people who bought it for PS3 already.

Don't you love that you can't return defective products when it comes to games?
It doesn't matter how good Skyrim is. I don't care if it's the best game ever. Bethesda doesn't deserve a penny of my money for what they did to me as a PS3 owner. Shame on me for letting them steal my $60. Shame on the media for not saying a word about it until weeks after the fact. Tell me while you're reviewing the PC/360 version that Bethesda didn't send you the PS3 version you asked for. Don't tell me way after you gave the PS3 version the same score as the other SKUs.
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IGN's article is definitely for appearances. They wanted to be the first major review site to come out in defense of PS3 gamers. They share a portion of the guilt, having deceived their audiences with that 9.5 review score (they really should pull that review), and this strikes me as an attempt to save face.
 
Kylarean said:
Hah. The fake Pete's can be funny.
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Yeah, I am pretty sure that is confirmed to be a Fake Pete Hine. I think that is pretty much confirmed over on the Official Bethesda Forums by even the biggest Skyrim PS3 haters right now.


But heck, who knows, I dont know what to think now. My PS3 version sold on ebay because I am afraid to invest too much time into the game and I dont want to even play it because the developer will not even make a statement, mods on their forums are locking everything, and their twitter accounts are doing nothing buy hyping up the VGAs and stuff.


Pretty pathetic.
 
About PS3 review copies

Months passed, more of Skyrim was revealed, and we attended various events where the game was shown. It was always shown on the Xbox 360. This made me uneasy. While Bethesda took great pains to have a large presence at the Microsoft X11 event in Toronto, just a couple of months later for the Sony Holiday Preview event, they were conspicuously absent. If you didn't know any better, Skyrim wasn't coming to the PS3 at all. Bethesda seemed curiously unwilling to promote the product on the Sony platform, at least in Canada. It was a natural thing to wonder at why this was the case.

With that in mind, we put in our request to Bethesda for a review copy of Skyrim, but we specified we wanted the PS3 version, to see how things had improved from past games. We were told our request had been accepted and we were down for the PS3 version. We checked this repeatedly and were told, yes, we're getting the PS3 version. When the time came, we received the Xbox 360 version instead with no explanation.
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http://www.cgmonthly.com/about/arti...mma-ps3-owners-are-second-class-citizens.html
 
How many people read IGN review and purchase the game based on it?

It's dishonest to give a game such a high score, and on the same site report on an issue that's game breaking.
 
This entire thing is on both Bethesda and the press that is supposed to be working for the consumer by warning us about things like this.

The biggest bummer for me in this entire thing isn't even the money. $60 lost won't break me. But it's that I can't listen to Idle Thumbs anymore. I don't want to put someone down but I am supremely disappointed in Nick Breckon for lying to us on these very forums. I just can't look at him the same way anymore.
I've also lost all love I had for Bethesda. They were one of my favourite developers, being the one of the only devs that still made CRPGs. But there's just no way I can look at another one of their products and not feel outright disgusted.

I have a PC more than capable of running Skyrim. I chose the PS3 version because I share this computer and I believed their lies that the PS3 version would be a viable solution for me. It's not about the money. It's that they lied to me.

DownWithTheShip said:
How many people read IGN review and purchase the game based on it?

It's dishonest to give a game such a high score, and on the same site report on an issue that's game breaking.
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What else can they do? Pull down the review and give it an appropriate score? That might hurt Bethesda's feelings and obviously that's more important than being honest to your readers!
 
centracore said:
IGN just posted a nice write up on the situation and is demanding answers from Bethesda - I doubt they'll hear anything, but at least they're helping to keep this in the public eye.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/121/1214016p1.html

Also, suspicions confirmed..
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IGN stepped up. Good on them.

Takuan said:
IGN's article is definitely for appearances. They wanted to be the first major review site to come out in defense of PS3 gamers. They share a portion of the guilt, having deceived their audiences with that 9.5 review score (they really should pull that review), and this strikes me as an attempt to save face.
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Clearly not for appearances. For this industry... it's rare to see an article like that.

Did they blunder not reviewing the PS3 code? Yeah (even though they might not have experienced problems in their playthrough) the important thing is that they addressed the issue when it became apparent. And did it quite strongly, imo.
 
Takuan said:
IGN's article is definitely for appearances. They wanted to be the first major review site to come out in defense of PS3 gamers. They share a portion of the guilt, having deceived their audiences with that 9.5 review score (they really should pull that review), and this strikes me as an attempt to save face.
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Yep, though they are giving us what we wanted which is more coverage of this issue. More coverage puts more pressure on Bethesda. I'd bash IGN for a lot of things but not for this since it helps us.
 
Evolved1 said:
IGN stepped up. Good on them.



Clearly not for appearances. For this industry... it's rare to see an article like that.

Did they blunder not reviewing the PS3 code? Yeah (even though they might not have experienced problems in their playthrough) the important thing is that they addressed the issue when it became apparent. And did it quite strongly, imo.
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I'm glad they're calling out Bethesda here, but I can't help but feel it's a proactive method to divert attention from the fact that they were accomplices in deceiving a good number of PS3 gamers out there. People wouldn't have run out and bought this in droves if they were given legitimate reviews.
 
When IGN reviewed Skyrim, it's surely significant that we were given free access to the Xbox 360 and PC versions prior to launch, but had to buy a PS3 copy from retail after it was released to the world. We are currently playing large-save files across a variety of PlayStation 3 models and will be publishing a follow up story.
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Well, seems Bethesda knew too.
 
Bethesda Skyrim PS3 forums are a hilarious mess. And for some reason, the mods won't let a topic exceed 12 pages - if it does, they automatically lock it and ask that a new thread be made (wtf?). Still no official response or anyone addressing the issues either. Great way to treat your paying customers, in the forum you set up to gather feedback and problems.
 
DownWithTheShip said:
It's dishonest to give a game such a high score, and on the same site report on an issue that's game breaking.
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Buck is being passed. No one wants to take the blame for this.

And while IGN and other sites are trying to reveal some "inside baseball" stuff about how Bethesda withheld PS3 versions for review, they're not pointing out how messed up it is that they still published a "PS3" review regardless. Nor should we pick on IGN since pretty much every major site did the same thing.

This could be an opportunity for the gaming press to step up and change some of their less-than-savory industry-wide practices (like "reviewing" versions of games they never played). Instead, sites like IGN are putting all of the blame squarely on Bethesda. It's time we readers demand some "mea culpa" from our gaming sites, as well.
 
railGUN said:
Bethesda Skyrim PS3 forums are a hilarious mess. And for some reason, the mods won't let a topic exceed 12 pages - if it does, they automatically lock it and ask that a new thread be made (wtf?). Still no official response or anyone addressing the issues either. Great way to treat your paying customers, in the forum you set up to gather feedback and problems.
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Supposedly they lock topics at the 200 post mark because they deem it a "prevention" method of going off-topic or causing forum lag by making the forum track large topics ... It's somewhere in their forum FAQ thingy.
 
I like how the top comment on that IGN "exposé" calls them out for giving Skyrim PS3 a 9.5.

You're part of the goddamn problem, IGN.
 
Also, not sure if this was pointed out yet in this thread, but pretty much every major site (except for IGN) has pulled their PS3 review from Metacritic. Not sure if this was decided by Metacritic or by the individual sites. There are currently over 80 reveiws for the 360 version and only 12 for the PS3. Good on them.
 
conman said:
Also, not sure if this was pointed out yet in this thread, but pretty much every major site (except for IGN) has pulled their PS3 review from Metacritic. Not sure if this was decided by Metacritic or by the individual sites. There are currently over 80 reveiws for the 360 version and only 12 for the PS3. Good on them.
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I'm guessing that it's Metacritic's call since so many sites still have their 360 review posted as their PS3 review. Although GamesRadar took the problems into account and says that it doesn't matter (as far as their score goes) because it doesn't affect every user

Update: Some PS3 users have experienced a serious problem where after roughly 25 hours of play time, the game loses performance until it becomes very choppy, and for some people it's unplayable. Since it doesn't affect all users, it doesn't change our score, but beware if you're planning on playing on PS3.
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http://www.gamesradar.com/elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-review/
 
Evolved1 said:
^^^ that is absurd.
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"If but ten people can play Skyrim properly, it gets a 10!" It also doesn't mention that issue as a minus. It just says "a few annoying bugs."

Talk about doing a disservice to your readership and for what? To slob Bethesda's knob. Ends justify the means, I guess?
 
Aselith said:
"If but ten people can play Skyrim properly, it gets a 10!" It also doesn't mention that issue as a minus. It just says "a few annoying bugs."

Talk about doing a disservice to your readership and for what? To slob Bethesda's knob. Ends justify the means, I guess?
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Gotta make money somehow. ._.
 
Aselith said:
"If but ten people can play Skyrim properly, it gets a 10!" It also doesn't mention that issue as a minus. It just says "a few annoying bugs."

Talk about doing a disservice to your readership and for what? To slob Bethesda's knob. Ends justify the means, I guess?
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Something. Just a very questionable approach to take.

Most certainly alienating their PS3 readers.
 
Evolved1 said:
IGN stepped up. Good on them.



Clearly not for appearances. For this industry... it's rare to see an article like that.

Did they blunder not reviewing the PS3 code? Yeah (even though they might not have experienced problems in their playthrough) the important thing is that they addressed the issue when it became apparent. And did it quite strongly, imo.
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Did IGN pull the PS3 review? Did they at least add an update to the review? If you were standing in Best Buy wondering if this would be a good gift and happened to check a couple of reviews, would you see this article?

It looks like appearances to me.
 
Loving it for the shenanigans involved but I feel sorry for those who have had to suffer through this.

Shit hitting the fan for a substantial audience and joined empathetically with their brethren who collectively begin questioning the integrity of the game developer and gaming publications. The mere fact that IGN vomit an article rightfully questioning Bethesda for answers while a fat and large 9.5/10 for the supposed PS3 version sits right next to it should speak volumes.

Unfortunately not much is going to happen. Websites demand hits for advertising volume and the best way to procure those are through backstabbing your way to greatness. Bethesda are still going to churn out buggy code that is lauded for its free form approach while any valuable criticism leveled not only at their developing prowess but writing abilities as well will be padded away as "but you can do this!"

I hope there is a consequence to all of this however.
 
Sye d'Burns said:
Did IGN pull the PS3 review? Did they at least add an update to the review? If you were standing in Best Buy wondering if this would be a good gift and happened to check a couple of reviews, would you see this article?

It looks like appearances to me.
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I'm willing to overlook some lag time on resolution as long as things are properly addressed. IGN posted they are doing their own research on the issue (testing it themselves) I will wait to see how that turns out, and their final response.

Bethesda played games here... they purposely didn't give PS3 copies out for review, which put massive time pressures on sites to get the holiday reviews out. They had to wait for retail and then play a massive game?

I'm not saying if they should have waited or what... but Beth played games. They are ultimately to blame.
 
You know I never thought IGN even reviewed Skyrim on the PS3. All I saw was the Xbox 360 review with one paragraph changed to say "PS3" and point out a few bugs. The rest of it was word for word by the same guy that did the PC version (which was also cut/paste of the 360 one)

Maybe I missed it but I remember a news story promising a review, then that day came (Monday) and nothing. Then it was just there (again, edited 360 version)

IGN = Crap when it comes to shit like this. I basically watch videos and stuff on their site but could care less what they say.

And in no way do they ever influence my buying choices what so ever.
 
^ Yup, IGN has been doing this for a while now. Disgraceful, really.

I wonder if any of these outlets is going to acknowledge the fact that they published PS3 reviews without having played them thoroughly, or played them at all. They have more to fall back on than Bethesda, really, but I'm curious about what excuses they'll come up with.
 
AngelSoldier said:
Gotta make money somehow. ._.
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Better way to "make money": just keep the 360 review posted, include a note that the PS3 review is either "pending" or "withheld" or some such and explain the situation. Hell, they could even publish a text review without a score and say they're waiting for these issues to be worked out before posting a final score. It's really not that difficult, and it keeps readers happy.

Takuan said:
^ Yup, IGN has been doing this for a while now. Disgraceful, really.
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It's definitely not just IGN that does this. Pretty much every site does this. Some will note which version they played for review, but they'll still post the review under all categories (and often post each version's review to Metacritic!). Frankly, it's usually a non-issue. But then these situations pop up from time to time. There's a reason for being thorough and honest. Sometimes when early wind gets out of a disparity (like with Dragon Age or Bayonetta), sites will do separate reviews. But no one saw this coming (and no one thought to look).

I wonder if any of these outlets is going to acknowledge the fact that they published PS3 reviews without having played them thoroughly, or played them at all. They have more to fall back on than Bethesda, really, but I'm curious about what excuses they'll come up with.
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I doubt any site will apologize or admit that. We'll see maybe see some explanation about how different versions are dealt with for reviews. But I don't expect to see any actual apologies or admission of wrongdoing to readers.

It would be nice, though. GAF likes to talk shit about professional game reviewers, but when it comes down to it, many of us are regular readers of a broad swath of the gaming press. I know I'll have a lot more respect for any site that will own up to this.
 
Never would have expected to see this AND another thread STILL going strong.
Yeah, something needs to be done. Sweet jesus.

Little note, my Father n' Law actually bought my Skyrim PS3 as my X-Mas present. I know because he asked what I wanted and he just told me okay. This was before this mess. Anyway, I ended it up having to send it back to him and he was super cool and bought the 360version for me instead. I told him basically "Yeah, it seems the PS3 version is flat out broken, so sorry to ask...."
It meant alot to him and he wanted to make me happy, so he didn't have an issue buying the other copy

Still, ain't that some shit?
 
I just checked Giant Bomb and noticed their Skyrim review is only for the PC and 360 version of Skyrim.

http://www.giantbomb.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/61-33394/reviews/

Has this always been the case, or did they pull it for PS3?
 
That's terrible! My PS3 save doesn't have that yet but now I'm afraid to actually play it more. Glad I accidentally double dipped and got pc too.
 
Yo Gotti said:
Going by what I've heard on the Bombcast, they're all only playing it on PC or 360.
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Ah props to GB. This is the way reviews should be done, if you don't get to play the other versions, don't review them. Although, this problem only occurs really late in the game, so I doubt they would've picked it up anyway.
 
Bethesda will sit this one out. Shitstorm will blow over and Fallout 4 will be released broken on a Sony console. It's true. You know it.
 
Ken Masters said:
In IGNs article calling out Bethesda they once again say how the bugs are charming in Bethesda games, wow
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So charming. The way I can't play my character that I invested a lot of time into? Incredibly charming.

This whole situation has gotten absolutely preposterous. If Bethesda had any knowledge at all that they were releasing a broken product onto the market (and really, how could they not?), well I am quickly running out of reasons to not sue them.
 
TemplaerDude said:
So charming. The way I can't play my character that I invested a lot of time into? Incredibly charming.

This whole situation has gotten absolutely preposterous. If Bethesda had any knowledge at all that they were releasing a broken product onto the market (and really, how could they not?), well I am quickly running out of reasons to not sue them.
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In the latest "Games, Damnit!" podcast the beloved Jeremy Parish states that bugs is what makes Bethesda games so much better than all the Call of Dutys. It keeps the experience fresh and surprising. His words, not mine.
 
I can see that, considering I view their world at less than 5 frames per second I get more time to appreciate the beautiful world they've created for me. It keeps it fresh. Exciting. Every frame is a new experience, about 20 pixels from the last frame. It's like looking at an amazing landscape photograph, only a lot more fucking pathetic.

Fuck you, Bethesda
 
TemplaerDude said:
This whole situation has gotten absolutely preposterous. If Bethesda had any knowledge at all that they were releasing a broken product onto the market (and really, how could they not?), well I am quickly running out of reasons to not sue them.
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There's no way that they didn't know. The comments from Obsidian made that clear. Similar issues were also found in previous Bethesda titles. This is why I don't think that we'll ever hear them say all that much about this issue. What can they really say when they released something that they knew was screwed? Acknowledging it will ensure that people bust them with a lawsuit.
 
I don't understand why a week ago all major gaming websites weren't asking for a statement from Bethesda?

What is truly alarming is the disparity between journalism and the gaming enthusiastic press. It makes the gaming press look like a joke, not journalist at all but people who make a living playing and getting games for free, and basically making a living selling us games.

This is a massive problem it calls in the question of the credibility of the whole press, quite frankly it stinks.
 
ok Bethesda have 5 hours to make a official response or I am trading my copy of skyrim for saints row.


I have had the game just sitting here for a few days but have been afraid to play it after all these reports came out that the patch only slightly fixed things.
even though I know I probably wont encounter the bug. I only ever make it 40 hours into there games and only play a hour at a time and never had any major problems with Oblivion or fallout 3 ps3... still I dont want to put in 20+ hours into something and want to play more but cant because of a shitty design decision that should have been changed 5 years ago.


Hopefully they release some patch notes for this weeks patch. if they improve the long term performance some more I might actually put the game into my console.


but yeah, you got 5 hours Bethesda... toss me a bone. alleviate your customers concerns. put there mind at ease.

Eurogamer posted another story about it so the story isnt going away at least for today.
 
While good of IGN to make an article like that it's partly pointless. They gave the PS3 version a good review score and most likely not change it. Many people likely bought their copies based on that ( :( ) and Bethesda already has their money so, I honestly feel, they don't give a damn.

I wish this would be a lesson to many people. If you get burned by a game by a developer then don't reward them by buying their next game. It's really that simple. Or if you can't help yourself have some patience and wait a few weeks for real and honest reports to come out regarding it. You can not trust corporate gaming sites to tell you the truth as this and many other games show. The other big example of this that I can think of is Black Ops on the Wii, PS3, and PC. The game was damn near unplayable at launch on the PC from what I recall yet that stopped no one from just pasting the 360 score to the PC section. The Wii version was better off but compared to other Wii games and Wii FPS it did not deserve the score it got in many places which was just the 360 review just altered to mention the lower graphics and missed features. It also had it's fair share of issues just the way MW3 Wii did but it was ignored.

This isn't a new thing but it will continue to happen until these sites notice their traffic dropping off but I'm afraid they won't get the message. Clearly IGN doesn't because in response to low traffic they make sensationalist claims to get hits instead of addressing why they are losing people. Companies only understand money. If the next Bethesda game bombs on the PS3 that should get their attention or at least the attention of their stock holders to start asking some serious questions. However I don't expect that to happen since to much crap is just accepted by game buyers and these companies know their actions will be accepted.
 
conman said:
The problem is how most sites handle multiplatform releases. They usually will only play through one version to completion (typically the 360) and then briefly sample the other two (if at all). But it'll still list on their site and on Metacritic for all versions. And PR firms can further limit a site's access to different version by only supplying the 360 version. The assumption is usually that any differences aren't worth mentioning, but then you run into problems exactly like this. The solution? Sites need to have some integrity and play through--to completion--all versions of a game if they intend to include that platform in their score.
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I'm reminded of the story of Delta Force: Black Hawk Down on PS2 and Xbox.

Those two titles are actually completely distinct games; different developers (I worked at Rebellion, who made the PS2 version; I forget who was responsible for the Xbox version). Both games were released on the same day, and many magazines reviewed one version (generally Xbox, we found).

Understand: These are *entirely* different games. Similar plotline, but completely different development cycles from scratch.

The problem? The Xbox version was generally regarded as inferior. Our game was brought down due to being seen as equivalent to a completely different game because it shared the name. As I understand it, our bosses had to do quite a lot of damage control just to establish that the PS2 title was a distinct game and shouldn't be reviewed under the same umbrella as the Xbox one.

To be fair, I'm not sure if this was the fault of the reviewers or Novalogic for not making that fact clear - I wasn't privy to the materials which accompanied review copies. But it always left a bitter taste in my mouth about the potential failings for the current review system.
 
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