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Zelda Skyward Sword Spoiler Thread: Retelling the Legend without the black bars
- Thread starter Laughing Banana
- Start date
Nah Ghirahim would be much better. He has a wider range of attacks throughout the game. Demise just has a few slashes and lightning.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Well, Demise couldn't fight, say, Nayru/Farore/Din, because they're clearly way too fucking powerful for anyone to touch. They'd obliterate him, they made the Triforce, they're pretty much in complete control. This game just establishes that there can be other goddesses. 'Deities' might have been a better word.
MisterHero
Super Member
It's assumed that it's a divine prank but what Zelda didn't know is that he made himself one of the mortals capable of weilding it.
Because in SS it's revealed that only mortals can use it.
Because in SS it's revealed that only mortals can use it.
One thing that I initially hated about the game that I later thought was interesting was the idea of destiny. Initially I was annoyed how everyone was proclaiming that Link was the great hero and he was fated to destroy all the bad guys, seemed too much like a fairy tale. Well it turned that a bunch of the important characters already knew the events that were going to occur because they experienced it. The Sheikah lady already knew that Link defeated all the bad guys and all she had to do was wait for him to be born so she could be the one to guide him.
Really??
Ghirahim was about 50 times more interesting than Demise. Better design, better dialogue, better everything.
Damon Bennet
Member
I can really see ghiranim in smash.
would play like a mixture of marth and sheik. nice
would play like a mixture of marth and sheik. nice
StreetsAhead
Member
I like to call this the Mary Poppins effect - Mary Poppins might be a great mysterious children's character, but if you find out she has corns on her feet, halitosis and lives with her mother in the clouds, some of the magic is lost.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I want Demise in Smash for his dialogue, clearly.
Demise looks amazing, his design is fantastic. He is also brutal. That's why I want him in Smash, and why Ghirahim should take a backseat to him in that regard.
MisterHero
Super Member
Demise is too awesome for Smash
I love Smash but no one else would stand a chance
he can be really slow and really heavy and mow down the others with thunderbolt slashes
and others catch on fire by standing too close to his hair
I love Smash but no one else would stand a chance
he can be really slow and really heavy and mow down the others with thunderbolt slashes
and others catch on fire by standing too close to his hair
I want Demise in Smash for his dialogue, clearly.
Yeah Mario really has a fighting chance against what is practically a demi-god.
His design and personality are so meh in comparison to Ghirahim. Then again I felt that Zant should have been in Brawl as well. Ghirahim and Zant are what I would consider the true villains of their respective games because you have the most interaction with them and they are what I'd consider the primary dark catalysts for each game(the end villains Demise and Ganondorf couldn't have regained their power if it were not for Ghirahim and Zant). Though Ganondorf should have been in Brawl too because he will always be the most badass Zelda character. The difference is that Ganondorf's design and character trump Demise so many times over it's not even funny.
Demise was okay but he didn't really intrigue me like other Zelda characters do. He's brutal for sure, though.
Just realized I haven't posted a good/bad list for the game. I'd like to have one on paper.
Good:
Art Style: The art in this game is absolutely fantastic, and if you disagree, just take a look at the Dolphin thread. Even though it still looks very nice in SD, the graphical power of the Wii does not do this game justice. I'd like Nintendo to pull a MM and reuse the assets from this game in the next Zelda. The NPCs are charming (this was not the case in Twilight Princess), Link and Zelda in particular look stunning, and Ghirahim and Oni Akuma are definitely memorable from a design perspective. Is this the best looking Zelda? I might still have to give Wind Waker the edge, but Skyward Sword is definitely a close second.
Overworld: The overworld in this game has been getting a lot of negative criticism. The way I see it, this game is Super Mario Galaxy to Twilight Princess' Mario 64. It tries to do something different, while still retaining the feel from the previous games. The overworld/underworld system is just a different take on the traditional Hyrule Field system. Instead of traveling the field and entering other parts of the overworld by foot, you're traveling the sky by bird and dropping into other parts of the overworld. It's pretty similar when you think about it.
Once you've dropped into the underworld, the three areas you explore are quite dense, and resemble dungeons, much like the 2D Zeldas. Again, the Galaxy-64 comparison comes into play. This is a new, different approach to the overworld, so I don't think it's fair to compare it to the previous 3D Zeldas. Lanaryu stands out in particular as extremely well done. If three different teams were in charge of each part of the underworld, the Lanaryu team definitely deserves the most props and should get started in Zelda Wii U asap.
Skyloft is a fun town with quirky and charming NPCs. It's no Clock Town, but as a "home base", it is very well done.
Could the sky have been less barren? Sure, but I don't think that warrants the overworld as being a negative for this game. It doesn't have that exploration aspect we had in Wind Waker, but again, they tried something different here.
Motion+ in theory:The motion controls have opened up some great new possibilities in the world of Zelda. Combat is the most difficult it's ever been in a 3D Zelda, and for the first time, you actually have to think rather than spam b or spin attack. The first boss in particular has shattered many players minds and forced them to adapt to the new combat system.
I also like the way you control the beetle. Very responsive. Throwing and rolling bombs is cool too.
Dungeons/Puzzles: As mentioned above, the underworld can pretty much be classified as a dungeon, but for simplicity sake, I'll just talk about the 7 main dungeons in the game.
I thought these set of dungeons were the best we've seen in Zelda besides MM and MQ. 3, 4 and 5 stand out in particular. Smart design, good use of your entire inventory, fun puzzles, solid difficulty... can't ask for more. I didn't think the first two dungeons were very bad either. Majora's Mask being the exception, the first two dungeons in Zelda games have never been all that strong, so 1 and 2 in this game didn't strike me as terrible, like it did for others. 6 wasn't bad either, but it's tough to follow up the three best dungeons in the game. 7 was very well done as well, and a unique final dungeon to wrap the game up.
I've played Twilight Princess twice, once on Wii and once on Gamecube, and I'd probably place Arbiters, Snowpeak and City in the Sky on par with 3, 4 and 5 in Skyward Sword. Pirate Ship gave me some very "Is this a dungeon?" vibes, like Snowpeak before it. It's close, but I'd have to give Skyward Sword the edge in the dungeon department. This might change in a year, but it seems clear right now.
Bosses: Good shit. For the first time, the first boss in the game isn't a complete cakewalk. It is a tool used to teach you the new combat. My only gripe with that, is, the bosses that followed it weren't nearly as difficult or dependent on you to master the use of motion +. They still are effectively used, though. Regardless, the bosses in this game were all very fun, and satisfying to defeat. Boss 4 stands out as the most satisfying fucking boss in video game history!
The final boss gave me a solid challenge, most moves taking off 1 full heart, if not two. A huge step above the final boss of Twilight Princess. Once you learn the pattern, it's quite simple, but I still say Demise is a solid final boss. Wouldn't have hurt to have another form, though.
Sidequests/Day & Night System: OH MY. I got some very Majora's Mask vibes from this! I thought they used it very effectively in this game, and it benefited the sidequests a great deal. As mentioned above, I liked the NPCs in this game. So that already gave me a good feeling about the sidequests, even before I started them. Not quite at the level of a MM/OOT, but still very good stuff.
Cutscenes: The lip flapping may come off as odd at times, but the cutscenes in this game are top notch, and when combined with the art style and the soundtrack, Nintendo has proven that voice acting is not necessary for these games. Standout scenes for me include Groose shaking Link, and "You know what happens at the end right?"
Soundtrack: As expecting, the soundtrack to this game is fucking outstanding. The orchestra knocked it out of the park, producing a Disney-quality soundtrack. Although the tunes aren't quite as memorable as some of the older games, I once again bring up the Mario 64/Galaxy comparison. Galaxy's score sounds fantastic, but I wouldn't exactly call that music "memorable". Those simple tunes like Song of Stoms and Bomb Bomb Battlefield stick in your head years after playing the game, while the more elaborate pieces in Galaxy and Skyward Sword are perfect in the moment. It would be a travesty if Nintendo doesn't release this soundtrack. Some of my favorites:
Romance (best song in the game, sounds straight out of Aladdin)
Ballad of the Goddess (a new classic, the defining song of this game)
Follow Fi
The Sky (once again, the overworld theme sounds great)
Lord Ghirahim
Stamina: I think the stamina is a very cool system. Forcing you to be smart with spin attacks, climbing and quicksand puzzles are welcome additions to the franchise. However, it could use some tweaking.
Pro Mode HUD: In a shocking turn of events, Nintendo has allowed customization in a Zelda game. Baby steps.
Bad:
Hand Holding: Can be broken down into two sections:
1) Extended Intro/Tutorial: Although it has been toned way the fuck down from Twilight Princess, the first hour or so of the game is boring, slow, full of text, full of tutorials, and leaves you wanting to start the game already! A game can use it's intro level to teach the player how to play subtly without effecting the pacing in a negative way. OOT does this masterfully, leaving the text and tutorials optional, and getting you into the first dungeon within minutes if you know what you're doing.
2) Fi. Far and away the worst sidekick in Zelda history. I might have been able to let the annoyance slide if she was an interesting character, like Tatl or Midna... but she's not. She's a fucking sterile robot with no emotions. The fact that this annoying, pace killing, game stopping, unnecessary re-iterator made it into the game and none of the testers thought "Hey, this just MIGHT be going a little too far" blows my mind. Nintendo, you fucked up.
Ultimately, Nintendo has to stop treating it's players like drooling, clueless idiots. Why even include an instruction manual with the game? They obviously assume no one reads it. Judging from Fi, they assume no one reads period, because she reiterates what people say mere seconds after they've said it. It's like the owl in OOT asking you if you need him to repeat what he just said, except after every remotely important character speaks, and you automatically select "Yes".
Somehow, they've managed to make the "blue rupee" mistake AGAIN with this game. In case you don't know, in Twilight Princess, when collecting a blue rupee for the first time after loading the game, an unskippable dialogue would start, explaining that you collected a blue rupee and it was worth 5 rupees. It goes without saying that this is annoying as fuck, and completely unneccesary. They've decided to take it one step further in Skyward Sword. There are about 40 treasures you can collect in this game. Whenever you first collect one of these, not only does the obnoxious dialogue pop up, but a slooooooooooooooooooow menu animation of a treasure being added to your inventory is shown. Every. Time. It's ridiculous, and once again, the fact that this got by testing and no one said anything is unreal.
Padding: The second major problem with this game. I think it goes without saying that tear collecting in Twilight Princess was a pretty unanimous negative about the game. Players didn't want be plopped down into an area and forced to collect 15 of x. It didn't help that we had to control Wolf Link during those segments. So after 5 years, what does Nintendo repay us with? Improved tear collecting.
I'm not saying the tear collecting is bad in this game. It's pretty terrifying when those statues awaken, the music starts playing, and you don't know how to effectively use your stamina. Playing as Link is fun, and that tense feeling you have in the spirit realm is pretty cool. But this is not what I expect from a Zelda game. Being forced to collect 15 tears 4 times in familiar locations between dungeons is the definition of padding, whether you like it or not. They couldn't think of anything interesting for the player to do, so you're forced to collect a bunch of shit. There was no such thing in any Zelda game before Twilight Princess, so I'm not sure where this idea came from, and why it still has a place in the franchise. In OOT and MM, we went around meeting new people, finding new items and discovering new places when buffering dungeons. In SS, we collect tears. Not cool, not fun, and feels rushed after 5 years (or 3 years of development, whatever).
Of course, the I have to mention the tadtones. It's basically tear collecting taken to a whole new level. Doesn't help that you have to deal with tedious, carpal tunnel syndrome inducing nunchuk flicking at the game time. Oh, and the reason you're collecting them is because Faron doesn't think you're the hero. And collecting these makes you the hero. Right.
We are forced to fight the Imprisoned not once, not twice, but three times. I would have accepted fighting him twice, considering I enjoyed the Groose mechanic with the 2nd and 3rd battle... but I do not like having to fight this giant, ugly black blob with an asshole for a throat three times, the last two times being extremely close together. It's padding, and it's not fun. The changes between the fights do not warrant three separate battles.
Finally, we have backtracking. The only offensive backtracking that I could think of is being forced to go through the first dungeon again just to collect water. I didn't think it was too bad, but it really has no place in a Zelda game.
Motion+ in reality: Unfortunately, the motion + controls are just not responsive at all times, and sometimes laggy by up to 1 whole second (I'll looking at you, forward thrust). It's tough when so many enemies have a weakspot that require you to forward thrust, and there's either lag, or the move is not recognized at all. IR aiming is far superior to motion + aiming imo, so adjusting from the precision of TP to SS was tough.
The swimming controls are brutal and totally unnecessary. Worst part is, Link's torpedo is a cool idea, and these are some of the best swimming ideas since Zora Link in MM, but they're dragged down by the awful motion controls.
Although the puzzle and combat possibilities opened by motion controls are pretty great, ultimately, I think it would be for the best if Nintendo were to drop them in the next game, and give us traditional controls. If they must stay, restrict them to swordplay, select items (beetle and whip), and use IR aiming for the bow.
The Villains: I really like Ghirahim. His design is great, his flamboyance is cool, he looks great in cutscenes, his dance at the end of the game is hilarious... but to quote Dr. Evil: He's not evil enough. He doesn't really do anything that makes me want to stop him. Ganondorf haunts my dreams in OOT. He kills the Deku Tree right off the bat. He turns Hyrule Castle town into a wasteland left only with terrifying redeads. Majora's Mask turns me into a fucking Deku. He then goes around tormenting people. Not to mention the moon is going to crash into the Earth. What does Ghirahim do? Why do I want to stop him? It seems like Skyloft is totally unaffected by him, and Zelda is being protected by Impa. I do not feel threatened by this guy at all. Do something to make me hate you, damn it!
Demise is also pretty shallow, unfortunately. He shines at the end, but it's a shame he spends the majority of the game as a giant black blob.
Stamina: As mentioned, I like the stamina system. However, I don't think it's implemented correctly. Draining my stamina while running is stupid. Remember the bunny hood from Majora's Mask? Imagine if you could only run for 5 seconds, then had to walk in order to run again. For things like plain old running and rolling, stamina should not be depleted. However, when I'm running up a slope, or running in quicksand, that's a different story. It really slows down the game, especially considering I could roll around Hyrule in every 3D Zelda until SS. It also sucks that you can't upgrade your stamina at any point in the game. By the end, I should have infinite stamina. I'm a hero for fucks sakes!
Nitpicks:
Here's a couple of small things I didn't like about the game, but aren't that big a deal.
Enemy diversity: Bokoblins everywhere! For a game that was in development for 3+ years, this seems lazy. I loved the new enemies in Lanaryu (the new Beamos, the new Armos, the thing where you deflect missiles back at it), I just wish there was more in the rest of the world.
Not being able to warp from statue to statue: So annoying. I need to go to the sky, do a 180, jump back down, and choose the statue to warp. Or, tediously fly from point A to point B in the overworld. Slows the pace of the game down. Not cool.
Payoff for sidequests: Usually, you get gratitude crystals for completing sidequests. After you get all 80... you get a bug wallet. Thanks a lot. Now I know OOT pulled the same shit with the Skulltullas, but at least that game has the biggoron's sword side quest. There are no such awesome payoff sidequests in SS. The Hyrule Shield might have filled the void, if it wasn't spoiled in every screenshot and piece of art for this game since it's inception :lol
So, overall, I'd place Skyward Sword above Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, but still well below Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. It's a great game, but it has a couple of problems that just baffle me. I think Amir0x puts it best (paraphrasing): the game has mistakes that even a Xbox Live Arcade developer wouldn't make, yet it has certain highs that even the very best devs in the industry today couldn't reach.
Good:
Art Style: The art in this game is absolutely fantastic, and if you disagree, just take a look at the Dolphin thread. Even though it still looks very nice in SD, the graphical power of the Wii does not do this game justice. I'd like Nintendo to pull a MM and reuse the assets from this game in the next Zelda. The NPCs are charming (this was not the case in Twilight Princess), Link and Zelda in particular look stunning, and Ghirahim and Oni Akuma are definitely memorable from a design perspective. Is this the best looking Zelda? I might still have to give Wind Waker the edge, but Skyward Sword is definitely a close second.
Overworld: The overworld in this game has been getting a lot of negative criticism. The way I see it, this game is Super Mario Galaxy to Twilight Princess' Mario 64. It tries to do something different, while still retaining the feel from the previous games. The overworld/underworld system is just a different take on the traditional Hyrule Field system. Instead of traveling the field and entering other parts of the overworld by foot, you're traveling the sky by bird and dropping into other parts of the overworld. It's pretty similar when you think about it.
Once you've dropped into the underworld, the three areas you explore are quite dense, and resemble dungeons, much like the 2D Zeldas. Again, the Galaxy-64 comparison comes into play. This is a new, different approach to the overworld, so I don't think it's fair to compare it to the previous 3D Zeldas. Lanaryu stands out in particular as extremely well done. If three different teams were in charge of each part of the underworld, the Lanaryu team definitely deserves the most props and should get started in Zelda Wii U asap.
Skyloft is a fun town with quirky and charming NPCs. It's no Clock Town, but as a "home base", it is very well done.
Could the sky have been less barren? Sure, but I don't think that warrants the overworld as being a negative for this game. It doesn't have that exploration aspect we had in Wind Waker, but again, they tried something different here.
Motion+ in theory:The motion controls have opened up some great new possibilities in the world of Zelda. Combat is the most difficult it's ever been in a 3D Zelda, and for the first time, you actually have to think rather than spam b or spin attack. The first boss in particular has shattered many players minds and forced them to adapt to the new combat system.
I also like the way you control the beetle. Very responsive. Throwing and rolling bombs is cool too.
Dungeons/Puzzles: As mentioned above, the underworld can pretty much be classified as a dungeon, but for simplicity sake, I'll just talk about the 7 main dungeons in the game.
I thought these set of dungeons were the best we've seen in Zelda besides MM and MQ. 3, 4 and 5 stand out in particular. Smart design, good use of your entire inventory, fun puzzles, solid difficulty... can't ask for more. I didn't think the first two dungeons were very bad either. Majora's Mask being the exception, the first two dungeons in Zelda games have never been all that strong, so 1 and 2 in this game didn't strike me as terrible, like it did for others. 6 wasn't bad either, but it's tough to follow up the three best dungeons in the game. 7 was very well done as well, and a unique final dungeon to wrap the game up.
I've played Twilight Princess twice, once on Wii and once on Gamecube, and I'd probably place Arbiters, Snowpeak and City in the Sky on par with 3, 4 and 5 in Skyward Sword. Pirate Ship gave me some very "Is this a dungeon?" vibes, like Snowpeak before it. It's close, but I'd have to give Skyward Sword the edge in the dungeon department. This might change in a year, but it seems clear right now.
Bosses: Good shit. For the first time, the first boss in the game isn't a complete cakewalk. It is a tool used to teach you the new combat. My only gripe with that, is, the bosses that followed it weren't nearly as difficult or dependent on you to master the use of motion +. They still are effectively used, though. Regardless, the bosses in this game were all very fun, and satisfying to defeat. Boss 4 stands out as the most satisfying fucking boss in video game history!
The final boss gave me a solid challenge, most moves taking off 1 full heart, if not two. A huge step above the final boss of Twilight Princess. Once you learn the pattern, it's quite simple, but I still say Demise is a solid final boss. Wouldn't have hurt to have another form, though.
Sidequests/Day & Night System: OH MY. I got some very Majora's Mask vibes from this! I thought they used it very effectively in this game, and it benefited the sidequests a great deal. As mentioned above, I liked the NPCs in this game. So that already gave me a good feeling about the sidequests, even before I started them. Not quite at the level of a MM/OOT, but still very good stuff.
Cutscenes: The lip flapping may come off as odd at times, but the cutscenes in this game are top notch, and when combined with the art style and the soundtrack, Nintendo has proven that voice acting is not necessary for these games. Standout scenes for me include Groose shaking Link, and "You know what happens at the end right?"
Soundtrack: As expecting, the soundtrack to this game is fucking outstanding. The orchestra knocked it out of the park, producing a Disney-quality soundtrack. Although the tunes aren't quite as memorable as some of the older games, I once again bring up the Mario 64/Galaxy comparison. Galaxy's score sounds fantastic, but I wouldn't exactly call that music "memorable". Those simple tunes like Song of Stoms and Bomb Bomb Battlefield stick in your head years after playing the game, while the more elaborate pieces in Galaxy and Skyward Sword are perfect in the moment. It would be a travesty if Nintendo doesn't release this soundtrack. Some of my favorites:
Romance (best song in the game, sounds straight out of Aladdin)
Ballad of the Goddess (a new classic, the defining song of this game)
Follow Fi
The Sky (once again, the overworld theme sounds great)
Lord Ghirahim
Stamina: I think the stamina is a very cool system. Forcing you to be smart with spin attacks, climbing and quicksand puzzles are welcome additions to the franchise. However, it could use some tweaking.
Pro Mode HUD: In a shocking turn of events, Nintendo has allowed customization in a Zelda game. Baby steps.
Bad:
Hand Holding: Can be broken down into two sections:
1) Extended Intro/Tutorial: Although it has been toned way the fuck down from Twilight Princess, the first hour or so of the game is boring, slow, full of text, full of tutorials, and leaves you wanting to start the game already! A game can use it's intro level to teach the player how to play subtly without effecting the pacing in a negative way. OOT does this masterfully, leaving the text and tutorials optional, and getting you into the first dungeon within minutes if you know what you're doing.
2) Fi. Far and away the worst sidekick in Zelda history. I might have been able to let the annoyance slide if she was an interesting character, like Tatl or Midna... but she's not. She's a fucking sterile robot with no emotions. The fact that this annoying, pace killing, game stopping, unnecessary re-iterator made it into the game and none of the testers thought "Hey, this just MIGHT be going a little too far" blows my mind. Nintendo, you fucked up.
Ultimately, Nintendo has to stop treating it's players like drooling, clueless idiots. Why even include an instruction manual with the game? They obviously assume no one reads it. Judging from Fi, they assume no one reads period, because she reiterates what people say mere seconds after they've said it. It's like the owl in OOT asking you if you need him to repeat what he just said, except after every remotely important character speaks, and you automatically select "Yes".
Somehow, they've managed to make the "blue rupee" mistake AGAIN with this game. In case you don't know, in Twilight Princess, when collecting a blue rupee for the first time after loading the game, an unskippable dialogue would start, explaining that you collected a blue rupee and it was worth 5 rupees. It goes without saying that this is annoying as fuck, and completely unneccesary. They've decided to take it one step further in Skyward Sword. There are about 40 treasures you can collect in this game. Whenever you first collect one of these, not only does the obnoxious dialogue pop up, but a slooooooooooooooooooow menu animation of a treasure being added to your inventory is shown. Every. Time. It's ridiculous, and once again, the fact that this got by testing and no one said anything is unreal.
Padding: The second major problem with this game. I think it goes without saying that tear collecting in Twilight Princess was a pretty unanimous negative about the game. Players didn't want be plopped down into an area and forced to collect 15 of x. It didn't help that we had to control Wolf Link during those segments. So after 5 years, what does Nintendo repay us with? Improved tear collecting.
I'm not saying the tear collecting is bad in this game. It's pretty terrifying when those statues awaken, the music starts playing, and you don't know how to effectively use your stamina. Playing as Link is fun, and that tense feeling you have in the spirit realm is pretty cool. But this is not what I expect from a Zelda game. Being forced to collect 15 tears 4 times in familiar locations between dungeons is the definition of padding, whether you like it or not. They couldn't think of anything interesting for the player to do, so you're forced to collect a bunch of shit. There was no such thing in any Zelda game before Twilight Princess, so I'm not sure where this idea came from, and why it still has a place in the franchise. In OOT and MM, we went around meeting new people, finding new items and discovering new places when buffering dungeons. In SS, we collect tears. Not cool, not fun, and feels rushed after 5 years (or 3 years of development, whatever).
Of course, the I have to mention the tadtones. It's basically tear collecting taken to a whole new level. Doesn't help that you have to deal with tedious, carpal tunnel syndrome inducing nunchuk flicking at the game time. Oh, and the reason you're collecting them is because Faron doesn't think you're the hero. And collecting these makes you the hero. Right.
We are forced to fight the Imprisoned not once, not twice, but three times. I would have accepted fighting him twice, considering I enjoyed the Groose mechanic with the 2nd and 3rd battle... but I do not like having to fight this giant, ugly black blob with an asshole for a throat three times, the last two times being extremely close together. It's padding, and it's not fun. The changes between the fights do not warrant three separate battles.
Finally, we have backtracking. The only offensive backtracking that I could think of is being forced to go through the first dungeon again just to collect water. I didn't think it was too bad, but it really has no place in a Zelda game.
Motion+ in reality: Unfortunately, the motion + controls are just not responsive at all times, and sometimes laggy by up to 1 whole second (I'll looking at you, forward thrust). It's tough when so many enemies have a weakspot that require you to forward thrust, and there's either lag, or the move is not recognized at all. IR aiming is far superior to motion + aiming imo, so adjusting from the precision of TP to SS was tough.
The swimming controls are brutal and totally unnecessary. Worst part is, Link's torpedo is a cool idea, and these are some of the best swimming ideas since Zora Link in MM, but they're dragged down by the awful motion controls.
Although the puzzle and combat possibilities opened by motion controls are pretty great, ultimately, I think it would be for the best if Nintendo were to drop them in the next game, and give us traditional controls. If they must stay, restrict them to swordplay, select items (beetle and whip), and use IR aiming for the bow.
The Villains: I really like Ghirahim. His design is great, his flamboyance is cool, he looks great in cutscenes, his dance at the end of the game is hilarious... but to quote Dr. Evil: He's not evil enough. He doesn't really do anything that makes me want to stop him. Ganondorf haunts my dreams in OOT. He kills the Deku Tree right off the bat. He turns Hyrule Castle town into a wasteland left only with terrifying redeads. Majora's Mask turns me into a fucking Deku. He then goes around tormenting people. Not to mention the moon is going to crash into the Earth. What does Ghirahim do? Why do I want to stop him? It seems like Skyloft is totally unaffected by him, and Zelda is being protected by Impa. I do not feel threatened by this guy at all. Do something to make me hate you, damn it!
Demise is also pretty shallow, unfortunately. He shines at the end, but it's a shame he spends the majority of the game as a giant black blob.
Stamina: As mentioned, I like the stamina system. However, I don't think it's implemented correctly. Draining my stamina while running is stupid. Remember the bunny hood from Majora's Mask? Imagine if you could only run for 5 seconds, then had to walk in order to run again. For things like plain old running and rolling, stamina should not be depleted. However, when I'm running up a slope, or running in quicksand, that's a different story. It really slows down the game, especially considering I could roll around Hyrule in every 3D Zelda until SS. It also sucks that you can't upgrade your stamina at any point in the game. By the end, I should have infinite stamina. I'm a hero for fucks sakes!
Nitpicks:
Here's a couple of small things I didn't like about the game, but aren't that big a deal.
Enemy diversity: Bokoblins everywhere! For a game that was in development for 3+ years, this seems lazy. I loved the new enemies in Lanaryu (the new Beamos, the new Armos, the thing where you deflect missiles back at it), I just wish there was more in the rest of the world.
Not being able to warp from statue to statue: So annoying. I need to go to the sky, do a 180, jump back down, and choose the statue to warp. Or, tediously fly from point A to point B in the overworld. Slows the pace of the game down. Not cool.
Payoff for sidequests: Usually, you get gratitude crystals for completing sidequests. After you get all 80... you get a bug wallet. Thanks a lot. Now I know OOT pulled the same shit with the Skulltullas, but at least that game has the biggoron's sword side quest. There are no such awesome payoff sidequests in SS. The Hyrule Shield might have filled the void, if it wasn't spoiled in every screenshot and piece of art for this game since it's inception :lol
So, overall, I'd place Skyward Sword above Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, but still well below Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. It's a great game, but it has a couple of problems that just baffle me. I think Amir0x puts it best (paraphrasing): the game has mistakes that even a Xbox Live Arcade developer wouldn't make, yet it has certain highs that even the very best devs in the industry today couldn't reach.
Franchuzas87
Member
I like Demise, but he is so damn big for be a regular Smash character.
My original questions here.
So a couple things I'm STILL confused about, even though I've been paying attention to everything you guys have said so far are the following:
1. I never asked this earlier, but Demise is basically a demon or something from what could be considered Hell, right? Did the game ever say what he's from and why he wants to destroy the "normal" realm? (I noticed the game used the term "Hylia's Realm" at some point, is that just what could be considered the "normal" realm?
2. The human/Hylian thing. Basically, this is what I want to know: Who did Hylia send up to the sky? Was it supposed to be:
A) All humans that would future populate the world?
B) All humans of Hyrule/Surface World (the chosen land of the gods?)
C) Just Hylians, the selected people of the gods?
D) Something else I'm not understanding?
3. Does the end of the game establish whether or not the people of Skyloft came down to the surface? I know it showed them there, but did it imply they went back up, too?
4. The Temple of Time.....but.....I'm just gonna have to not understand that one for the time being. Right now I'm mostly curious about the Human/Hylian thing. Also, a Hyrulean is anyone--Goron, Zora, Hylian--than inhabits Hyrule, correct?
Thanks for all who are replying and having fun with me! (right!?
)
All this questioning also makes me wonder who built all the structures found around the surface world, like the Earth Temple and Skyview Temple. Just another thought.
So a couple things I'm STILL confused about, even though I've been paying attention to everything you guys have said so far are the following:
1. I never asked this earlier, but Demise is basically a demon or something from what could be considered Hell, right? Did the game ever say what he's from and why he wants to destroy the "normal" realm? (I noticed the game used the term "Hylia's Realm" at some point, is that just what could be considered the "normal" realm?
2. The human/Hylian thing. Basically, this is what I want to know: Who did Hylia send up to the sky? Was it supposed to be:
A) All humans that would future populate the world?
B) All humans of Hyrule/Surface World (the chosen land of the gods?)
C) Just Hylians, the selected people of the gods?
D) Something else I'm not understanding?
3. Does the end of the game establish whether or not the people of Skyloft came down to the surface? I know it showed them there, but did it imply they went back up, too?
4. The Temple of Time.....but.....I'm just gonna have to not understand that one for the time being. Right now I'm mostly curious about the Human/Hylian thing. Also, a Hyrulean is anyone--Goron, Zora, Hylian--than inhabits Hyrule, correct?
Thanks for all who are replying and having fun with me! (right!?
)All this questioning also makes me wonder who built all the structures found around the surface world, like the Earth Temple and Skyview Temple. Just another thought.
Professor Beef
Banned
ANTH0NY, ANTH0NY, THERE'S A HOLE IN THE ZIP-LINE
I like Demise, but he is so damn big for be a regular Smash character.
Size is irrelevant in the Smash universe. Just look at Pikachu and Olimar.
I like Demise, but he is so damn big for be a regular Smash character.
It's Ridley all over again. He's too big for smash. I hope they do a better version of the story mode from brawl so we can fight characters like demise.
Didn't the seedling take a thousand years to grow? I assumed that's how far back in time Link went. Also my guess is that somwhere in between one to two thousand years after Link and Zelda get together, we get the events of Ocarina of Time. Skyloft citizens slowly shift to living on the ground as it gets better and better.
edit: By better and better I meant as Link exterminates all the different races on the ground except for Gorons cause he can't mess with them.
edit: By better and better I meant as Link exterminates all the different races on the ground except for Gorons cause he can't mess with them.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I like Demise, but he is so damn big for be a regular Smash character.
Olimar is 3cm tall or something
I like Demise, but he is so damn big for be a regular Smash character.
I'd love to see Demise in Smash.
Give him Ganon's Melee moveset, so Ganon could have a moveset true to the games
MisterHero
Super Member
Ganondorf is about twice the size of Link in TP and he made it but yeah he's pretty imposingI like Demise, but he is so damn big for be a regular Smash character.
they might have to alter his proportions too, because if they just scale him down his head might look small
1. Demise is the SOURCE of ALL monsters. I think from now on even major villains unrelated to Ganon DO have a connection to him.Pyrokai said:So a couple things I'm STILL confused about, even though I've been paying attention to everything you guys have said so far are the following:
1. I never asked this earlier, but Demise is basically a demon or something from what could be considered Hell, right? Did the game ever say what he's from and why he wants to destroy the "normal" realm? (I noticed the game used the term "Hylia's Realm" at some point, is that just what could be considered the "normal" realm?
2. The human/Hylian thing. Basically, this is what I want to know: Who did Hylia send up to the sky? Was it supposed to be:
A) All humans that would future populate the world?
B) All humans of Hyrule/Surface World (the chosen land of the gods?)
C) Just Hylians, the selected people of the gods?
D) Something else I'm not understanding?
3. Does the end of the game establish whether or not the people of Skyloft came down to the surface? I know it showed them there, but did it imply they went back up, too?
4. The Temple of Time.....but.....I'm just gonna have to not understand that one for the time being. Right now I'm mostly curious about the Human/Hylian thing. Also, a Hyrulean is anyone--Goron, Zora, Hylian--than inhabits Hyrule, correct?
Thanks for all who are replying and having fun with me! (right!?
All this questioning also makes me wonder who built all the structures found around the surface world, like the Earth Temple and Skyview Temple. Just another thought.
He doesn't want to destroy the realm, he wants to rule all the life that comes from Hyrule's creation. He would fight the gods when they got in his way though.
2. All the remaining humans that were left, as it was being conquered by the monsters.
3. The barrier between the Sky and Surface was dissolved. Like #2, the purpose of the humans was up to them, not a greater pre-determined meaning.
4. Yes.
I'd love to see Demise in Smash.
Give him Ganon's Melee moveset, so Ganon could have a moveset true to the games
Demise should be an assist trophy if anything. What would be sweet is a level that takes place in the realm Demise created for their final battle.
Ganondorf does need a move set involving his sword from Twilight Princess though. Speaking of the next Smash, do you think they'll update Ganondorf's and Sheik's appearance to match the Skyward style since SS Link will inevitably be in Smash kind of like how they updated Sheik to look like a TP character?
Franchuzas87
Member
Mmm... Nah. Not cool.
MisterHero
Super Member
I'm okay with them giving Demise the sword style (SS is about swords, it makes sense) and/or Ganondorf his classic moveset
and replace Sheik with Impa and have her team with Zelda
Impa brought it in Skyward Sword, she can bring it in Smash too
Link can have the Beetle or something like Skyward Slash, and give the classic Link moveset to Hero's Shade. :3
They almost had TOON SHEIK
THEY ALMOST HAD TOON SHEIK
If they have a Sheik in SS style, I'd have a new avatar.
Ganondorf in SS style would be pretty cool too. It could happen, people were doubting Sheik would show up in Brawl because they were using TP Zelda (they took their sweet ass time unvealing Sheik, too).
Hot Coldman
Banned
Doubt it. Sheik got a TP-style update because it was still close to her OoT look, as was Link/Zelda/Ganon's TP looks to their OoT looks. The SS style is very very different, however, so it'd be... odd.
Link in Smash 4 will keep his Twilight Princess look, I think. As will Ganondorf, and possibly Zelda. I can't see SS having a big impact on the existing Zelda reps in Smash, to be honest.
Hot Coldman
Banned
That implies Ghirahim is the main man and Demise is his secret weapon. The opposite is true!
Franchuzas87
Member
That would be awesome. Demise comes in, grabs Ghirahim like a sword and... BANG!
MisterHero
Super Member
Demise's UpB calls down da thunda and lets him send energy waves with his A moves
Demise's DownB plants his sword into the ground and commands Ghirahim fight for him
and Ghirahim has judo and pro-wrestling attacks
Demise's DownB plants his sword into the ground and commands Ghirahim fight for him
and Ghirahim has judo and pro-wrestling attacks
The assumption people make is
that the "divine prank" was caused by Zelda sending Link back in time while he still had the Triforce of Courage at the end of OoT. At the very end, when Link goes to meet Zelda for the first time again he still has the Triforce of Courage in his hand. That must mean that the other parts of the Triforce went to their respective owners, thus Ganon got the Triforce of Power without ever having entered the Sacred Realm. As far as he knew, the gods just chose him; but really it was because OoT Zelda is the most questionable wielder of the Triforce of Wisdom in the series.
Wait... why did I spoiler tag that?
mdtauk
Member
Despite the curse of evil forever plaguing Hyrule, Link and Zelda - craving the Triforce, does not mean either of those will automatically gain possession of it. Link had the earn all three parts. If he tried to obtain it without first proving himself, he would only have obtained one piece of it, with the other two pieces going to Zelda, and Demise/Ganondorf.
It has always been said that if your spirit is unbalanced, you will only be granted that part which reflects your character.
Guess they'll just have to split the timeline again.
Right after the end of the game, the spacetime continuum collapsed on itself. The other games in the series take place in the few surviving portions of the continuum. Isolated and not linearly connected.
If we could get everyone to believe this, there would be world peace.
You could give Demise Oni Akuma's moveset!!! Shoot fireballs and shit!! Heck, Demon for Final Smash, let's goo!!!! XDDD
On a serious note, I would have agreed with the whole Demise over Ghirahim in Smash thing, but then I questioned Demise's size... seriously, that's at least half of the "Battlefield" in Brawl. Fuck that shit. :lol
So, how will he get back up? I mean we can't say that we are unable to knock him back as the whole point of Smash is to knock people off the edge... Dammit Demise, why didn't you show us more moves.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
Actually I just realized there are probably no time travel paradoxes in this game, aside from going into the past in and of and itself . I prefer the Trunks version of time travel, where if you go into the past it creates a new dimension. In the way it works in this game it all has to be consistent. Link going back into the past changes absolutely nothing in the present.
For example Link kills Demise in the past so he shouldn't have ever had to get the triforce to kill him in the present. Well I was wrong about that. I realized that Link didn't completely destroy Demise and his physical form has been sealed away in that Imprisoned form, most likely because Link defeated his spirit with the master sword and Impa sealed the rest away with the sealing spike. Impa knew the whole time that when Girahim kidnapped Zelda and she sent Link back into the past that he would succeed.
For example Link kills Demise in the past so he shouldn't have ever had to get the triforce to kill him in the present. Well I was wrong about that. I realized that Link didn't completely destroy Demise and his physical form has been sealed away in that Imprisoned form, most likely because Link defeated his spirit with the master sword and Impa sealed the rest away with the sealing spike. Impa knew the whole time that when Girahim kidnapped Zelda and she sent Link back into the past that he would succeed.
The TRUNKS version of time travel? Psssshhhh more like the Back to the Future version!
jump_button
Banned
all the other's would keep going on in that time line all they would see is zelda going missing and eveyrthing up to that point
only one's that it would change for where all in the pass at the time, the time line was always going to change at that point but they had to get there first for it to happen
only one's that it would change for where all in the pass at the time, the time line was always going to change at that point but they had to get there first for it to happen
I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here.
I finished the game last night, and it was a great game. Definitely had a lot of fun. I have to admit sometimes the motion + wasn't very responsive, especially in that fight against Demise. It was a little annoying.
Also, a quick question about drawing on the walls. I kept having trouble drawing the arrow to get arrows. Do you have to draw in a specific manner to get that?
Also, a quick question about drawing on the walls. I kept having trouble drawing the arrow to get arrows. Do you have to draw in a specific manner to get that?
MisterHero
Super Member
I think so.
Circle for bombs
6-sided shape for rupees
shaft and arrowhead for arrows
Triforce for fairies
There's a movie in the Gossip Stone at the Academy that explains it.
Extras > Goddess Walls
We are talking about OoT and TP. SS Link being balanced doesn't make the other Links balanced. Link was sent back in time to a new timeline and got that timeline's Triforce of Courage because the other timeline's Triforce of Courage was still inside him. Just like when Ganon touched the Triforce and caused it to split, the other 2 parts automatically went to the people that most exemplify their respective parts of the Triforce; Ganon and Zelda. The gods didn't just bestow it upon Ganon because they wanted him to have it; it was given to Ganon because Zelda screwed up and made Link split up that timeline's Triforce; which makes one wonder why she has the Triforce of Wisdom.
To be fair to Zelda, this time travel stuff is kind of hard to figure out. She thought if she sent him back into time just a little bit earlier then it would be the same as him putting the master sword back into the pedestal. In the Zelda universe however it seems that using a time gate is very different from travelling back on your own. The master sword pedestal is a time gate of sorts but instead of using it Zelda decides to just "shoot" him back into the past, creating a new dimension in the process.
MisterHero
Super Member
No there is no 2nd Triforce.
The Triforce is in the Sacred Realm, as in REMOVED from the actual Hyrule. The marks on the hands are only signs that the characters are able to weild them, but it's still in that other realm.
You even go to a seperate space to claim the pieces in Skyward Sword.
But the Triforce does get embedded on crest of the Goddess statue, so it was probably sent back / faded back to that "other place" before Ocarina of Time
What's funny though is that you see the Triforce marks in TP but the Triforce itself actually shows up in the 2nd timeline in Wind Waker (still the Sacred Realm?)
The Triforce is in the Sacred Realm, as in REMOVED from the actual Hyrule. The marks on the hands are only signs that the characters are able to weild them, but it's still in that other realm.
You even go to a seperate space to claim the pieces in Skyward Sword.
But the Triforce does get embedded on crest of the Goddess statue, so it was probably sent back / faded back to that "other place" before Ocarina of Time
What's funny though is that you see the Triforce marks in TP but the Triforce itself actually shows up in the 2nd timeline in Wind Waker (still the Sacred Realm?)
The master sword pedestal is a different kind of time travel. When Link puts the master sword back in what he's doing is moving back the point at which he got frozen in time. The only things that are time travelling are his memories. At the end of OoT Zelda uses magic to send all of Link even further back in time to stop Ganon before he could invade, but she didn't remove the Triforce of Courage and screwed up two timelines.
Thinking about it, since the Ocarina of Time is actual time travel, in Majora's Mask every time you play the Song of Time you are creating an alternate timeline and dooming the one you are leaving.
I've been playing OoT3D recently, and I noticed it says the triforce now resides in the sacred realm. The triforce could have been hidden there when the Hylians made the master sword seal, since from SS we know it wasn't always there. When you get a triforce mark on your hand, the triforce is actually inside you. Play Wind Waker again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AaxlN_uZPQ#t=30sWhich is why I proposed earlier in this thread that the triforce was never hidden in Skyloft. Link gets all 3 triforce pieces from the flames. In Sky Keep, Link has to enter the Silent Realm to claim each piece. The Silent Realm was established when it is introduced to be a manifestation of Link's spirit; it's inside his head. So when he claims a triforce piece he's actually pulling them out of himself. Like Sky Keep was just extra security placed on the triforce by Hylia to make sure not just anyone could use it.
Anyway, two timelines, two triforces, but they can't leave their own timeline because you can't have two in the same timeline.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Majora's Mask is Source Code, basically.
Actually, come to think of it, Michelle Monaghan is probably the only thing that could make that game better.
Actually, come to think of it, Michelle Monaghan is probably the only thing that could make that game better.
Lord_Byron28
Member
No it doesn't. As shown in SS it is just a mark saying you can weild it. Hence why Link throughout SS slowly obtains the three different marks of the triforce after passing trials of Courage, Wisdom and Power. However, he still has to go and actually obtain them afterwards.I've been playing OoT3D recently, and I noticed it says the triforce now resides in the sacred realm. The triforce could have been hidden there when the Hylians made the master sword seal, since from SS we know it wasn't always there. When you get a triforce mark on your hand, the triforce is actually inside you. Play Wind Waker again
Anyway, two timelines, two triforces, but they can't leave their own timeline because you can't have two in the same timeline.
MisterHero
Super Member
In Wind Waker's setting the Triforce is also physically present, aside from marking both Link and Zelda (both of who actually physically held their parts of the Triforce). Ganondorf just had to summon it by bringing the characters together (he believed he had to kill them to gain the full Triforce, but they didn't get that far). The best part is that the King, who possessed no pieces, managed to make a wish.I've been playing OoT3D recently, and I noticed it says the triforce now resides in the sacred realm. The triforce could have been hidden there when the Hylians made the master sword seal, since from SS we know it wasn't always there. When you get a triforce mark on your hand, the triforce is actually inside you. Play Wind Waker again
It was in the Sacred Realm before OoT begins because that's where Ganondorf knew where to look, he just couldn't get in.
SS doesn't explicitly say it, but you are either in the Sacred Realm or some other dimension (Silent Realm?) made by the gods when you get the Triforce.
But yeah it did become material in SS for awhile.
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