Hero of Legend
Member
I like the look, but I'm open to a change if they do so.
But I'd LOVE for a black one, I don't want white twice.
But I'd LOVE for a black one, I don't want white twice.
Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012
- Thread starter bgassassin
- Start date
- Status
Too much difference in performance so no high budget third party games on it and even without the huge sales. Sincerely that's exactly like how i see it too but if the console can provide me Uncharted3 level of graphics in 1080p without aliaising will be good enough for me to buy it...
...when it will cost 150/100.
Nobody ever confirmed it was. Even IBM's statement is very, very vague, as the much quoted "Watson" isn't a system first and foremost - it's a research department (which wasn't directly involved in the Wii U development process, or any console development, as far as I know). Wii U simply uses stuff they came up with. Like IBM/ Qimonda eDRAM. Which is something the Wii U CPU would share with Watson (the supercomputer), and therefore POWER7. As well as PowerEN/ A2 and Cu-32.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
The only way you could say that with confidence is if you knew it's in-order. So?
brain_stew
Member
Eh, its only a 128 bit bus, that's huge in the CPU world but pitiful compared to modern GPUs. GDDR5 delivers twice the bandwidth at the same clock speed and bus width as DDR3.
bgassassin
Member
fixed and yes
For your last question... http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=28769770&postcount=37
IBM's PR back around E3 said Wii U's CPU shared the same technology as Watson. Being that general could easily only refer to the eDRAM, or it could be more than that.
Beaten by wsippel.
brain_stew
Member
When does a part stop becoming a derivative and become something else entirely? Would you not agree that 4 way SMT, symmetrical 256KB L2 caches, 4MB L3 cache per core and 4 DP FPUs are all fundamental parts of the Power7 architecture? IBM seem to think so.
I've no idea whether the Wii U's CPU is in some distant way "derived" from Power7 (whatever that means), but I don't believe it fits IBM's definition of what a Power7 CPU should look like.
I don't see why people (not yourself of course) are spinning this as something bad tbh. Why exactly would you want to dedicate so much silicon to double precision floating point for example, when the target device will never have need of anything other than single precision float.
bgassassin
Member
See your level of intelligence is too high to comprehend how us common folk say it.
It would be akin to how Xenon came from Cell using PPEs.
Aaawwwww...Drastically underpowered confirmed. Wii situation is go.
Also, this looks shit:
Drop the curvy, fat design and give it edges, Nintendo. I liked the Wii's angularity.
Really?what would be not Drastically then???
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
I know what you mean, but technically:
- a power7 core is dynamically-configurable 1/2/4-way SMT, by specification. Would I still call a hardwired subset of that a power7? Likely.
- L2 cache configurations (symmetrical, asymmetrical, size, associativity, etc) are not irrelevant, but I would not say they define an architecture. Cache locking/partitioning alone can change a cache config drastically - does a power7 with a rarely-used cache partitioning stop being a power7? ; ) As re L3 - the picture is even more fuzzy there as power7 allows for the re-distribution of the L3 of powered-down cores among the remaining active cores, IIRC.
- 4 DP units is frankly a very fuzzy metrics to judge about power architectures. Power/ppc DP FPUs have been combined DP/SP for generations now. All it takes for a CPU to change the outside appearance of its FP units is to masquerade the ISA side of things the way Gekko's 2-way FP SIMD did with its DP fpu and voila - a 'brand new fpu setup!'
Apropos, would you not agree Gekko, with all its nifty tweaks, was still a ppc750? In this line of thinking, the reason I asked you about in-order was very simple: IBM had not had an OOE design for a relatively long time before power7. So WiiU's CPU being OOE/in-order would be a very strong tell-tale re the CPU's origins/lineage.
I don't want to be categorical and say you're crazy if you think the console won't be able to get the nextgen third party games.
So I'll just say I don't understand nintendo anymore if that's the case.
In the same time that won't really bother me as I didn't like this generation.
Just show me what you can do with this new hardware and controller nintendo!
So I'll just say I don't understand nintendo anymore if that's the case.
In the same time that won't really bother me as I didn't like this generation.
Just show me what you can do with this new hardware and controller nintendo!
POWER7 uses dual quad channel controllers per chip, no? >100GB/s per chip?
Cmd. Pishad'aç
Banned
X360 can run BF3.
If companies want, yes, the console will run next gen 3rd party games.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Technically, we're all figments of bgassassin's imagination, while he furiously spams his own desolate thread.
Aaawwwww...
Also, this looks shit:
Drop the curvy, fat design and give it edges, Nintendo. I liked the Wii's angularity.
I have no problem at all with the mock up curvy, "fat" design.
http://wtfman.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/christina-hendricks-hot.jpg
http://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/e/ec/PrincessRosetta.jpg/290px-PrincessRosetta.jpg
ftw
bgassassin
Member
brain_stew
Member
Apologies, I stand corrected. Its dual 128 bit (quad channel) memory controllers. As for Wii U, well I don't think Nintendo will be keen to implement a design that requires them to use a minimum of 8 RAM chips throughout the console's lifespan.
Hero of Legend
Member
http://www-03.ibm.com/innovation/us/watson/
http://www-03.ibm.com/innovation/us/watson/what-is-watson/a-system-designed-for-answers.html
Just being a tech noob here, but I decided to peek at the Watson on IBM's site, and the capture of this video shows Power 750, so... maybe? Would it even still be the same thing if it turned out to be a Power 6? Is this even the same thing? :/ God I wish I was tech-savvy.
http://www-03.ibm.com/innovation/us/watson/what-is-watson/a-system-designed-for-answers.html
Just being a tech noob here, but I decided to peek at the Watson on IBM's site, and the capture of this video shows Power 750, so... maybe? Would it even still be the same thing if it turned out to be a Power 6? Is this even the same thing? :/ God I wish I was tech-savvy.
I am not a username, I am a free man!
bgassassin
Member
Well the Power 750 is just one of the versions of their server. And POWER6 is a totally different CPU line.
POWER7 itself as a CPU (the die) is 567mm2 which is huge and way too big for a console. For a comparison Cell is/was 235mm2 and Xenon is/was 168mm2.
Hush you. Know your role inside my brain.
Or perhaps we created you. The illusion continues!
ShockingAlberto
Member
You probably could have done better than an obscure character from an obscure anime.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Hygiene time:
power 750: a lineup of IBM power7-based servers.
power7: a CPU power architecture by IBM.
power6: a CPU power architecture by IBM, predecessor to power7.
ppc (powerpc) 750: a lineup of G3 powerpc processors by IBM and Moto (currently Freescale).
/your friendly neighborhood tech-terms cop
bgassassin
Member
Or maybe it's an illusion within an illusion. We must dig deeper.
*has never watched Inception*
That was towards the end as I was running out of ideas.
Also you need to bribe your contact to get us some more info.
ShockingAlberto
Member
The only people I know who would know this sort of thing clammed the hell up as of about late July.
Haven't heard much but "Hey new devkits" or the like since then.
dacuk
Member
GAF is the worst place to complain about this.
bgassassin
Member
Yeah I remember you saying that. Would offering them beads and trinkets work?
Gamer @ Heart
Member
So now people are doubting the power 7 stuff, which is one of the first things we had kind of settled on?
REGRESSION IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Anyway, could it be within the realm of possibility that Nintendo will go all out on one aspect of the system that they know will carry it through to the end of this new generation, like that Power 7 with tons of edram, or something. I mean, the cell on the PS3 is pretty much responsible for it keeping up and even excelling past 360 games visually at times and that cost sony alot in both R&D and production.
REGRESSION IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Anyway, could it be within the realm of possibility that Nintendo will go all out on one aspect of the system that they know will carry it through to the end of this new generation, like that Power 7 with tons of edram, or something. I mean, the cell on the PS3 is pretty much responsible for it keeping up and even excelling past 360 games visually at times and that cost sony alot in both R&D and production.
bgassassin
Member
All brain_stew said was that it won't have a POWER7 CPU. That's guaranteed. Doesn't mean the cores used in the CPU can't be based on POWER7.
While I realize it's highly unlikely they'll make console that's spec competitive in the next gen, Iwata and Miyamoto's quotes that I posted last page give me a little bit of hope that they're committed to not being left in the dust this time around. And though it might all just be PR bull, they've been giving off the impression that they're actively working with and listening to devs.
In the end, they'll always cater to their bottom line over what other developers want, but it does seem like they're taking specs very seriously this time.
In the end, they'll always cater to their bottom line over what other developers want, but it does seem like they're taking specs very seriously this time.
jump_button
Banned
only thing that worry me is it may end up being the Dreamcast of the next gen good game but too soon when everyone see PS4 and Xbox3 coming
specialguy
Banned
From what I've seen everything you guys have "settled on" is likely wrong.
In general imo most of you still are expecting the Wii U to be a lot more powerful than it will be. Story of this thread. Heck Bgassasin seems pessimistic next to you guys LOL. Talking about 28nm, stacked RAM, 768 MB OF EDRAM, next gen GPU, and all kinds of crazy high end stuff...
I'm not really that up on my IBM CPU's at all but a Power 7 seems like way out of Wii U's league.
I'm also still expecting the 320 SP GPU, the RV 730.
Dont forget that GPU will still be a boost on PS360. By my calculations Xenos has the equivalent of 240 SP's (though, you cant really compare them like that, I do it anyway LOL).
With Wii U I'm more worried about random bad engineering by Nintendo in the form of bandwidth limitations though, possibly reducing a system that should be more powerful than PS360 down to their level. Just a hunch there, with all the rumors of DDR3 and with Killer Freaks looking like a bad PS360 game (yes I know it's early and all, just taking it as one subject to change example).
Beards?
>Using an alpha build of a game to determine performance.
That's worse than using a 360 launch game to say how powerful it is. Threw out your post at that point.
So pessimistic.
Killer Freaks is an alpha game man.
Can I judge the PS3 horsepower with Untold Legends or Genji 2?
Gamer @ Heart
Member
No doubt. It must have been frustrating watching every blockbuster third party game release on every platform except the number one selling console. Supporting a whole year with just first party tentpole titles is almost impossible and yet thats what Nintendohas had to do outside of a few key franchises like Just Dance, etc.
That said, no publisher this time around is going to be blindsided by the Wii U like they were for the Wii were they support it half ass-idly or not at all. They cant be that stupid to do it again, which means they can help nurture an audience for their games from the start this time.
Yeah, what are you basing that off of? Other than "it's nintendo so it'll basically be a 360?"
Killer freaks isn't a great example. Heck, even the bird and zelda demos aren't great examples considering very little about the hardware was locked down by that point, but they're at least more reliable graphical targets than unfinished alpha footage of a game that (iirc) started as a 360/PS3 game.
Sigh. I'm just going to stop following this thread altogether. The rumors seemed to be everywhere. We were at maybe a half leap (hop?) over the current consoles, and now we're at a skip? Tomorrow well probably be back at a hop. Really frustrating to pay attention to this.
All their PR and interviews seem to be trying to placate the "core" gamer and I can't help but believe that there's some truth to it all. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to notice the lack of 3rd party core titles and how the Wii and the competition separated even further this generation. This resulted in a loss of titles on Wii, and therefore, by extrapolation a loss of revenue.
I imagine what we'll see is Nintendo hitting an "acceptable" mid-high price range (Iwata has already said that it will be more than Wii) and taking less profit on the units to get them into people's hands before the other systems come out. The controller must cost considerably more than a regular controller due to the vast number of additional components, so that will undoubtedly eat into the budget for building the machine. What I hope is that Nintendo take a profit hit over a price hike or component reduction in order to hit their price point.
Overall I'm pretty damned hopeful with the Wii U. It won't be a high end PC level which most people seem to want to see for the Next Box or PS4, but it will be a HUGE jump over Wii and a nice jump over the HD Twins. Finally, add in some decent online (If the 3DS is any indication), an amazingly cool controller and (hopefully) great 3rd party support and I'm going to be very happy.
bgassassin
Member
You're doing it wrong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emgXwYWqd9Y
You just need to look at the info that's been presented and look at the posts that most closely line up with that info.
AceBandage
Banned
It'll be a bound.
Or maybe a caper.
Skitter?
Lope!
It'll be a lope over current gen.
Or maybe a caper.
Skitter?
Lope!
It'll be a lope over current gen.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
So basically it's gonna be stronger than the PS360 but not by a whole lot. 2-3x as opposed to 5-10x. That's what the last few pages seem to conclude.
AceBandage
Banned
Well, based on what we know right now, it could be between 2 and 5, actually.
All really depends on the GPU at this point.
60_gig_PS3
Banned
in terms of power i'm expective something like Dreamcast (vs. ps1)
but we are reaching diminishing returns. So what's more important is developer capability. Anything 1st party Nintendo could look leaps and bounds over what we've seen on current consoles.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
bah. Not bad but definitely not enough to replace any other console. I'm just hoping this comes out a long time before the PS4, that way I can justify buying both, lol.
AceBandage
Banned
You're probably gonna be disappointed in all the systems, then.
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