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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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Togglesworlh
Banned
To be perfectly honest, I think those are just bad choices.
Dota is undeniably a much more interesting game to watch (and I say this having started with LoL), but those are some fucking boring plays. I've seen much, much better just in the games I personally played. Some by me, some by teammates, some by enemies.
Although I agree with whoever said that removing the narrator and adding in the music would do wonders. Hah.
Dazzle.
DSeriously. Do it.
Fixed.
Dazzle.
Seriously. Do it.
Remember: Dazzle's best feature is his capri pants.
What exactly was weird or a fetish or both? I really want to know what made you think that. You asked for a suggestion and I gave a detailed one with some supplementing reasons and ideas behind it.
PillowKnight
Member
I liked your idea, do it phandy.
that's not how you spell obsidian destroyer.
True, OD could destroy him too, but I don't really like to play OD that much. That's why I much rather have SD
Most(all?) agi carries have useless int growth. OD can make most agi carries explode before he takes any damage, but he's still a really fragile hero. As for SD, he has a 50% amplify damage skill and a skill that creates 2 illus of the targeted hero for a short time. His ulti is a purge (removes all buffs) that slows and does damage. So if AM blinks, you can amplify him, create 2 illus of him and slow him -> dead.
1) obsidian destroyer can either disable himself or magebane during a team fight, for a long time. obsidan destroyer can also disable any team mate that magebane is beating on
2) obsidian destroyer does true damage on his orb effect, ignoring spell shield. a farmed obsidian destroyer can basically 3 shot a farmed magebane. I don't know any other carry with this kind of burst.
I don't think he's a hard counter, but I think he's the strongest carry that can take on magebane. if magebane gets a bkb though, obsidian can only run from him for the duration.
2) obsidian destroyer does true damage on his orb effect, ignoring spell shield. a farmed obsidian destroyer can basically 3 shot a farmed magebane. I don't know any other carry with this kind of burst.
I don't think he's a hard counter, but I think he's the strongest carry that can take on magebane. if magebane gets a bkb though, obsidian can only run from him for the duration.
Ok, thanks. Do the illusions also apply the copied hero orbs like with Manta and the rune?
Yes, so they will burn the mana of the AM really fast
SouthernDragon
Member
Has a concede option been added yet? I haven't touched DotA 2 because of a lack of a concede. 
Has a concede option been added yet? I haven't touched DotA 2 because of a lack of a concede.
go back to league then southern
there is no yorrick for you to throw with here
har har har
Has a concede option been added yet? I haven't touched DotA 2 because of a lack of a concede.
Typical League player, need to spam that concede after a team fight.
I thought Skeleton King was the easiest. You farm up, have a billion HP, quote the Terminator, and make use of your one active every now and then.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
For those arguing against a concede option, what should I do when the enemy team has moved past our towers in base and proceeds to insta kill anyone who spawns in the fountain for 15 minutes?
Win.
But really, feel mixed about Concede. There are the no hope games, but then there are the ones that are looking bad, but can still be turned around, that your team likely would have voted to Concede on.
Also, I hope people abusing the pause feature to troll doesn't start gaining traction. Just annoying.
But really, feel mixed about Concede. There are the no hope games, but then there are the ones that are looking bad, but can still be turned around, that your team likely would have voted to Concede on.
Also, I hope people abusing the pause feature to troll doesn't start gaining traction. Just annoying.
It is going to happen, pause isn't a viable concept in early tmm games and games with randoms (assholes) in general. It is designed more for the competitive scene and IH games, and is thus not going away. I saw someone pause a game while Mirana's arrow was in air and they were surely about to be hit, and then they unpause and magically dodge it at the last second.
I feel that if someone needs a pause you give it to them in TMM provided they say why, but if it keeps happening I let my team decide (usually unpause), and other than that I hope the griefers die down in the more experienced matchmade games. Only other thing I can think of is maybe they can disable the feature or limit the number of pauses in TMM early on and in the leavers/assholes player pool or something.
Eh. SD isn't that hard of a counter to Antimage as people like to think. Just forgo manabreak and max blink/spell shield. Bam, fairly worthless Shadow Demon unless you have a good team who can follow up on soul catcher appropriately. I do this all the time in Dota1 scrims. I'm more than happy to bait Shadow Demon picks in exchange for something like Lich or Invoker. The real counters:
Syllabear >>>>> Antimage
Lycan >>>> Antimage
Pandaren Brewmaster >>> Antimage
Obsidian Destroyer >> Antimage
Freakinchair
Member
Were complaining about pause now? oh geez go back to League you guys.
He wasn't complaining about pause, he was complaining about griefing
with pause.
I agree, but I know this won't happen.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Oh come on, that was hilarious, especially given what happened in the beginning of the game. Spoilers: a couple of people disconnected, on both teams, so we paused multiple times to let them come back.
IT'S ALL ABOUT CONTEXT KIRBY.
someone on the dota2 team must love the anti mage meta game because none of his harder counters are in the game lol
I mostly play with friends, so this is not a problem for me (but I think a team that is not braindead is enough). But I have to say, if you play shadow demon properly, you should be able to take down AM easily. If the AM makes one mistake and does an offensive or bad blink, he'll be caught by disruption, soul catcher and then purge as soon as disruption ends, with no way to blink out. After that he's pretty much screwed when any other spell or auto attack does massive damage on him and he's already slowed.
And even if the anti mage doesn't skill mana burn, then you've already helped your team in a great way.
The thing is that it's so ridiculously hard to land Soul Catcher in a teamfight on Antimage, because he's going to pop up after his team initiates. And even if you do land it, he can escape with ease and either come back after the effect wears off, or he can go and pick off a stray support. His own illusions will hardly touch him, because by the time he's back out, he'll have at the very most 2 seconds on Blink CD. Purge is great for making him leave the team fight for a while, though, due to the massive AS debuff -- the only problem is that Manta removes it. Not to forget to mention, with spellshield, SD's spells really don't do that much damage, especially without Soul Catcher.
No, I had anther game with Randoms that they straight up greefed with it.
One thing that is really good with soul catcher is that it hits targets that are affected by disruption, this makes it amazingly easy to hit since you'll have 2,5 seconds to find a good position to land it, which is more than enough. So if you see AM blinking forward, you try to get disruption on him as soon as possible. He'll be gone for 2,5 seconds and you can easily get soul catcher on him then. When disruption ends you slow him with your ulti. Now AM will have 2 illus hitting him while blink is still 2 seconds from being ready. Now is the time when you need one non-brainless player in your team to get off a stun. If your team has any idea of how the game works, they will know that antimage will get back after disruption ends and that is the time to kill him.
This is not as hard as it might sound. And if you screw up, it's not really all that bad since SD has a really low cooldown on his spells (except the least important, his ulti). So if you screw up, you might have a chance to get off the combo again.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Oh. Well, that's a different thing, then.
I know what you're saying, but that simply does not work in a teamfight. Soul Catcher does not prioritize disrupted units over non-disrupted units, and the fact that it only selects ONE unit in it's gigantic AOE makes it hard to select who you want it to land on. It's almost impossible to hit Soul Catcher with the edge of it's AOE in the middle of a teamfight. AM's illusions will hardly even touch him due to AM's quick movement speed, coupled with blink. SD is a good counter in theory, but I'll be happy to show you that it doesn't work out so well in practice against organized teams.
That's not to say that SD isn't a ridiculously good hero. He is. He's just not that great of an AM counter as people like to think.
Freakinchair
Member
Sounds like you need to stop picking antimage.
But seriously. Fuck that hero. He's too strong right now imo
Also, someone put together a really nice GUI for Recommended Item Customization.
http://code.google.com/p/d2ric/downloads/list
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=10751
Also, how does my Lich build look? I'll make sure there is a Courier at the start, grab 3 iron branches, Gauntlets of Strength, and a Tango. If things don't go horrible for me, I'll grab some Wards, then upgrade the Courier.
I'll then pick up boots, make a Magic Wand to get more spaces, and Grab my Bracer, not necessarily in that order.
After that is done, and picking up wards along the way, I'll pick up Headdress. I have found this is my favorite item to grab right after I get my early game core. The +3HP/Sec is just really helpful to keep my HP values up.
I'll then start going for my boots. Most games, I'll do Phase Boots, I like the speed boost and the ability to not be blocked by anything. If my team just needs more mana, I'll grab Arcane Boots.
I'll usually decide if I want to go for Mech or Pipe around now. I personally like the Pipe more, but if the team doesn't have much in the way of Magic Damage, I'll grab the Mech instead.
After that, I tend to just save up for buy backs. I have to be simply flooded with cash to try and get anther item, but I have my Favorites in the Situational Items area. The reason I stuffed Quelling blade in there is that it is really is a good item to help out team mates if the team has a decent Furion.
I may swap out a Bracer for a Urn of Shadows if no on else on the team builds one, but most games anther person picks it up.
http://code.google.com/p/d2ric/downloads/list
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=10751
Also, how does my Lich build look? I'll make sure there is a Courier at the start, grab 3 iron branches, Gauntlets of Strength, and a Tango. If things don't go horrible for me, I'll grab some Wards, then upgrade the Courier.
I'll then pick up boots, make a Magic Wand to get more spaces, and Grab my Bracer, not necessarily in that order.
After that is done, and picking up wards along the way, I'll pick up Headdress. I have found this is my favorite item to grab right after I get my early game core. The +3HP/Sec is just really helpful to keep my HP values up.
I'll then start going for my boots. Most games, I'll do Phase Boots, I like the speed boost and the ability to not be blocked by anything. If my team just needs more mana, I'll grab Arcane Boots.
I'll usually decide if I want to go for Mech or Pipe around now. I personally like the Pipe more, but if the team doesn't have much in the way of Magic Damage, I'll grab the Mech instead.
After that, I tend to just save up for buy backs. I have to be simply flooded with cash to try and get anther item, but I have my Favorites in the Situational Items area. The reason I stuffed Quelling blade in there is that it is really is a good item to help out team mates if the team has a decent Furion.
I may swap out a Bracer for a Urn of Shadows if no on else on the team builds one, but most games anther person picks it up.
Heh, I still disagree ^^
Hitting a target with soul catcher isn't that much of a problem after some practise and I don't think that it's a skill that should be wasted in a teamfight if you have problems hitting the main (or a high priority) target (no point in throwing it in over 5 heroes and a creepwave). AM will chase after easy to kill support target and he'll probably end up in a corner of a teamfight where you can throw the combo. High movement speed doesn't really help against purge and stuns.
It feels like you could say this all about any hero/skill, like enigma isn't a good hero since his black hole can so easily be interrupted by a stunner and no well organized team wouldn't let him pull off a good ulti. (not that I really think this)
Sorry, but I still see him as a good counter to AM
Invoker
A five second blink isn't enough?
If you're like "Oh I can kill that one guy but not the others and I need to get the fuck out of there after I kill the one."
1) Blink dagger costs 75 mana to use
2) For the same cost, you can get a Vanguard and basically do the same thing, or if you want, commit to a fight (as much as an AM ever "commits"). It also has the upside of letting you jungle indefinitely and making you immune to all but the most organized early-mid ame ganks.
What you're describing does exist. Puck, despite his built in "blink", synergizes well with blink dagger because his Q has a long cooldown and is very slow, he is much more fragile than AM, and he has a lot of AoE.
Blink dagger will probably be knocked into CD when you want to get back out, at which point the item is useless and your innate blink is really useful (so your only real option would be to use it to initiate, and it isn't free). As Haly says, your money would be better spent elsewhere.
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