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[GodfatherX]

great post guys, just one question, 343 clearly says to MC that "you are forerunner" in Halo 3

was this a ruse?

 

[Bregmann Roche]

great post guys, just one question, 343 clearly says to MC that "you are forerunner" in Halo 3

was this a ruse?

My interpretation is that since he's in a protective/combat suit, has an AI onboard, and is pretty much the height of human evolution/medical tech, 343 considers him to be basically Forerunner, but I may be remembering wrong. haven't played Halo 3 campaign for years. Countdown until Slightly Live drops the knowledge on us: 5.... 4.....3....2....

 

[GodfatherX]

My interpretation is that since he's in a protective/combat suit, has an AI onboard, and is pretty much the height of human evolution/medical tech, 343 considers him to be basically Forerunner, but I may be remembering wrong. haven't played Halo 3 campaign for years. Countdown until Slightly Live drops the knowledge on us: 5.... 4.....3....2....

and very precise and awesome his knowledge will be, waiting as well

 

[Slightly Live]

great post guys, just one question, 343 clearly says to MC that "you are forerunner" in Halo 3

was this a ruse?

The Forerunners held this belief that they had a responsibility to guard and protect all life. The Mantle, as it was known, was viewed as being inherited from the Precursors. It was more than a philosophy as it deeply ingrained into their culture, their beliefs and their society.

The full quote from Halo 3 is,

You are the child of my makers. Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner.

and it's clear that Guilty Spark is acknowledging that the Mantle has been passed on to Humanity and that we have been chosen to be the Inheritor (or Reclaimers) of both Forerunner technologies and their responsibilities.

The Covenant's Prophets discovered Humanity's designated role and Inheritor/Reclaimer status which led to an increased movement to wipe out Humanity during the Human-Covenant War and the reason why genocide was on the table rather than being offered a role within the Covenant like it's various client species had been offered in the past. Humanity was simply too dangerous to survive least we disrupt the Covenant's authoritarian hierarchy.

 

[GodfatherX]

again, awesome stuff man, im sure your knowledge comes from the books, but is there a wiki you would suggest to get caught up on most of this? i know the halo wiki at HBO used to be good for this but last time I tried to look at it I didn't really find what I was looking for

 

[ncsuDuncan]

Well here's the easy answer:

Bungie intended humans to actually be Forerunner descendants. 343i decided to keep them separate but still hint at a unique connection, maybe a common ancestry.

Slightly Live's answer is the retconned correct answer though (or at least the most likely theory). I don't have any issues with 343i's decision, Bungie left it mostly ambiguous anyways.

 

[GodfatherX]

Well here's the easy answer:

Bungie intended humans to actually be Forerunner descendants. 343 decided to keep them separate but still hint at a unique connection, maybe a common ancestry.

Slightly Live's answer is the retconned correct answer though (or at least the most likely theory).

see that's what i've always believed, that Guilty Spark was saying we were the decendants, not ancient enemies. But I guess we will never know for sure. When was the first mention of precursors? The first I remember was the Halo 3 terminals, but like I said I haven't read the books.

Basically there are 2 schools of thought

1. Bungie universe had Humans as decendants of Forerunner. This would have allowed games after Halo 3 to possibly include re-emerged Forerunners as allies and Precursors as enemies.

2. 343i universe where it appears Forerunner are our ancient enemies that destroyed humanity but let a small group of them live, and also destroyed the Precursors except for the one prisoner. This allows for Forerunners to be enemies in new games, with the possibility of helping out or getting help from the last Precursor

either way I'm game, great stuff, I forgot how much I loved Halo lore

 

[Slightly Live]

again, awesome stuff man, im sure your knowledge comes from the books, but is there a wiki you would suggest to get caught up on most of this? i know the halo wiki at HBO used to be good for this but last time I tried to look at it I didn't really find what I was looking for

http://www.halopedian.com/

Human-Forerunner War
Flood
Forerunner
Didact
Librarian

I have some writing lined up for my site, Forward Unto Dawn, relating to all of the Forerunner backgrounds relevant to Halo 4 that will be going up early next year and we already have a few articles dealing with some speculation. So hopefully you'll be able to find enough to chew on before the game launches.

The Wiki's are great for facts but I find them rather dry if you rely on them to accurately narrate anything or put things into their proper narrative context.

 

[GodfatherX]

alright so halo wiki article on precursors says their first referrence is in cryptum, swear they were referenced, if only vaguely and without name in the Halo 3 terminals

 

[Slightly Live]

alright so halo wiki article on precursors says their first referrence is in cryptum, swear they were referenced, if only vaguely and without name in the Halo 3 terminals

They were first mentioned, by name, in the Bestiarum guide included in the CE/LE of Halo 3.

 

[Flipyap]

I'm hoping that Halo 4 won't actually be called Halo 4. It's a new trilogy, it deserves to be distinct. Halo: Reclaimer, or something along those lines.

 

[Trey]

You fiend, I was thinking that at least Halo 4 wouldn't be as bad as Ha-four-low.

 

[molekiller]

I'm hoping that Halo 4 won't actually be called Halo 4. It's a new trilogy, it deserves to be distinct. Halo: Reclaimer, or something along those lines.

Halo: The Phantom Menace?

 

[broony]

see that's what i've always believed, that Guilty Spark was saying we were the decendants, not ancient enemies. But I guess we will never know for sure. When was the first mention of precursors? The first I remember was the Halo 3 terminals, but like I said I haven't read the books.

Hey. I'm not fully schooled on halo lore but I do read the books and backstory a bit.

Wasn't there a line in Halo 2 where they were on delta halo about the structures looking like they were built on top of something else. Was this just civilisations had built on top of forerunner structures or that the forerunners had built on top of precursor structures?

You know, I think the forerunners built these new structures around the old. To protect them, honor them. Pure speculation, mind you. I'd need to make a thorough survey to be sure.

 

[Monocle]

Halo: The Phantom Menace?

Halo: The (Ancient) Empire Strikes Back?

 

[The Librarian]

again, awesome stuff man, im sure your knowledge comes from the books, but is there a wiki you would suggest to get caught up on most of this? i know the halo wiki at HBO used to be good for this but last time I tried to look at it I didn't really find what I was looking for

I would suggest the books to get caught up on the information from...the books. Seeing as how you're so interested.

 

[monome]

Th books are dirt cheap already.

But if you ain't gonna get 800 pages with pleasure, Slightly Live pretty much resumed all the facts, what's missing is the drama but it won't affect Halo 4.

Are we gonna spoiler tag everything until Halo 4 ships?

 

[Flipyap]

Hey. I'm not fully schooled on halo lore but I do read the books and backstory a bit.

Wasn't there a line in Halo 2 where they were on delta halo about the structures looking like they were built on top of something else. Was this just civilisations had built on top of forerunner structures or that the forerunners had built on top of precursor structures?

It's Forerunner structures built on top of old, rock buildings.
I don't know what they were originally meant to be, but when you consider 343's additions to the fiction, the buildings look uncannily human.

Here's the full album of pictures from my recent xenoarcheological escapade on Delta Halo.

 

[Trey]

Oh. Boy.

Spoiler

Humans are not descendants of Forerunners.
- Some of the Forerunners speculate that Humans and Forerunners may share some genetic tie in some form but that is only brief speculation.

The Forerunners history with the Precursors is unknown
- The Precurosrs prepdated the Forerunners by eons and they simply don't know much about them, in the same vein that Humanity doesn't know much about the ancient Forerunners.
- The last known Precursor was taken captive and locked up by the Forerunners.
- The Forerunners were at war with Humanity. Turns out ancient Humanity was pretty badass but we kept to ourselves in a small arm of the galaxy whilst the Forerunners kept to the rest. Then we discovered the Flood. The Flood pushed Humanity into Forerunner territory so Humanity went to war with the Forerunners at the same time it was fighting the Flood.
- Humanity found out how to beat the Flood through an unidentified biological weapon or means that required a massive sacrifice of the human population
- Humanity's massive losses resulted in a Forerunner victory and Humanity was genetically altered by the Forerunners and split into a smaller number of "regressed" sub-species
-The Flood bounced back and would eventually push the Foreunners to build and use the Haloes

The Forerunners (probably) did destroy any remaining Precursor artifacts
- The Precursors' technology managed to stand long after the Precursors disappeared and would have still stood for longer but the Haloes happened
- During a test firing of one of the Halo installations, a planet's entire Precursor relics, buildings and technologies are destroyed by the Halo effect
- Precursor technology was based on "neural physics" a unique concept that linked thought and matter in some way.
- The Halo Array successfully fired and engulfed the entire Milky Way exterminating all life and starving the Flood. This event most likely destroyed any and all Precursor technology and relics across the galaxy leaving only broken fragments and ruin.

Humanity refused to share the secret of defeating the Flood with the Forerunners
- Humanity did beat the Flood but at a high cost and when the Forerunners defeated Humanity this secret was never revealed to them. Sgt Johnson had a natural and rare immunity to Flood infection and the only known case of it's kind. This immunity may be linked to the ancient Human Flood secret.

Captain Del Rio was appointed CO of the UNSC Infinity (the same role as Captain Keyes on board the Pillar of Autumn) in March 2553, the same month that a memorial service for the dead was held in Voi, Africa (seen in the Halo 3 ending). We have Spartan IV's on deck on the Infinity so the IV program had to have been initiated before this date and time.

This entire post is the exact reason Cryptum is the second best book in the Halo franchise, lorewise, behind Fall of Reach.

 

[squidhands]

Captain Keyes would like a word with you.

Well, I did say among the worst, lol.

 

[broony]

It's Forerunner structures built on top of old, rock buildings.
I don't know what they were originally meant to be, but when you consider 343's additions to the fiction, the buildings look uncannily human.

Here's the full album of pictures from my recent xenoarcheological escapade on Delta Halo.

Cheers man. They definatetly look human don't they.

Spoiler

I suppose as part of the study of the flood on the halo hey could have been studying the humans who defeated them back in the day. Trying to find out what it was the humans discovered

 

[The Librarian]

- The last known Precursor was taken captive and locked up by the Forerunners.

I think you're mistaken on this one. That, or I'm not remembering correctly or got the wrong impression.

Spoiler

Wasn't it that the Forerunners discovered the Prisoner locked away? The Precursors locked him away, and that's why he escaped the Forerunners' extermination of his species.

 

[Slightly Live]

I think you're mistaken on this one. That, or I'm not remembering correctly or got the wrong impression.

Spoiler

Wasn't it that the Forerunners discovered the Prisoner locked away? The Precursors locked him away, and that's why he escaped the Forerunners' extermination of his species.

Yep, I was tired and you're correct. Not good writing after 5am. However, you got it wrong too. =P

Spoiler

The Prisoner was discovered by Humanity when they colonised a former Precursor world and found him locked up. They viewed him as an Oracle, like how the Covenant viewed Guilty Spark for a comparison, and sought his answer to questions and wisdom on various topics, even though his answers were usually very cryptic or bizarre.

One of the important interactions between Humanity and the Prisoner came when Humanity asked about the Flood, the answer the Prisoner gave was apparently so horrific and disturbing that many of those present committed suicide. Humanity then placed the Prisoner within more locks and seals and cased communications with him.

The last we know of the Prisoner, and the new book Primordium will shed more light for sure, was he had escaped together with a powerful Forerunner AI who had hijacked an entire Halo installation at the height of the Flood-Forerunner war.

 

[CyReN]

Every time I see this bumped I keep thinking there's a new screen shot or trailer, or even a small tidbit from Frankie

 

[daedalius]

Yep, I was tired and you're correct. Not good writing after 5am. However, you got it wrong too. =P

Spoiler

The Prisoner was discovered by Humanity when they colonised a former Precursor world and found him locked up. They viewed him as an Oracle, like how the Covenant viewed Guilty Spark for a comparison, and sought his answer to questions and wisdom on various topics, even though his answers were usually very cryptic or bizarre.

One of the important interactions between Humanity and the Prisoner came when Humanity asked about the Flood, the answer the Prisoner gave was apparently so horrific and disturbing that many of those present committed suicide. Humanity then placed the Prisoner within more locks and seals and cased communications with him.

The last we know of the Prisoner, and the new book Primordium will shed more light for sure, was he had escaped together with a powerful Forerunner AI who had hijacked an entire Halo installation at the height of the Flood-Forerunner war.

Spoiler

I hope Mendicant Bias comes back in H4, seeking redemption and vengeance upon the last Precursor; if that even turns out to be the Ancient Evil chief is fighting against.

From that last terminal in H3, you can tell he isn't altogether pleased with the Gravemind/Precursor.

 

[Blue Ninja]

This entire post is the exact reason Cryptum is the second best book in the Halo franchise, lorewise, behind Fall of Reach.

Yeah, but look what they did to that one.

It's Forerunner structures built on top of old, rock buildings.
I don't know what they were originally meant to be, but when you consider 343's additions to the fiction, the buildings look uncannily human.

Here's the full album of pictures from my recent xenoarcheological escapade on Delta Halo.

Hmm, maybe. They definitely weren't intended to be human structures, though, but if 343 felt the need they could easily retcon them.

see that's what i've always believed, that Guilty Spark was saying we were the decendants, not ancient enemies. But I guess we will never know for sure. When was the first mention of precursors? The first I remember was the Halo 3 terminals, but like I said I haven't read the books.

That's what he said. Or at least, what Bungie intended. A Bungie employee posted on HBO a while back that they'd always intended for humans to be revealed to be Forerunners, but then 343 took control of the franchise. So now, they're two similar but different species. Which is kinda more interesting than what Bungie had planned, if they can make it work.

 

[FyreWulff]

TBH, I think they gave away the Forerunner-> Human connection when all the doors on Installation 04's Attack on the Control Room looked exactly like the AR's scope.

It made more sense to me at the time, anyway.

 

[Trey]

Yeah, but look what they did to that one.

Nothing significant or fundamental was changed by Bungie's Reach. A few dates were overwritten and

Spoiler

the PoA was groundside before the Battle of Reach

.

 

[desertdroog]

This page and Slightly Live's responses have blown my mind.


I took a break from reading any Halo novels, stopped right in the middle of Contact:Harvest a year ago, and I have both the Cole Protocol and Halo Evolutions sitting on my bookshelf, mocking my laziness.

Now I find out that Cryptum is not only essential, but crucial to feeding that Halo lore I crave.

I still find Ghosts of Onyx to be my guilty pleasure of all the books. Probably due to the expanded universe and different Spartan program.

I've got some catching up to do and what looks like a couple of new books to purchase.

 

[Stinkles]

It's Forerunner structures built on top of old, rock buildings.
I don't know what they were originally meant to be, but when you consider 343's additions to the fiction, the buildings look uncannily human.

Here's the full album of pictures from my recent xenoarcheological escapade on Delta Halo.

Don't forget the weird humanesque structures in the Babysitter episode of Legends. Oh and chronologically it's not correct to say the human/forerunner division happened after the Bungie split, that's a continuum with a lot of great storytellers involved, including Joe Staten Robt McLees, Damian Isla and Rob Stokes, to name a few, and while we have certainly evolved it and built on it significantly, it's unfair to forget how many people contributed to the lore and when.

 

[Stinkles]

Every time I see this bumped I keep thinking there's a new screen shot or trailer, or even a small tidbit from Frankie

Use of weapons.

 

[Trey]

This page and Slightly Live's responses have blown my mind.


I took a break from reading any Halo novels, stopped right in the middle of Contact:Harvest a year ago, and I have both the Cole Protocol and Halo Evolutions sitting on my bookshelf, mocking my laziness.

Now I find out that Cryptum is not only essential, but crucial to feeding that Halo lore I crave.

I still find Ghosts of Onyx to be my guilty pleasure of all the books. Probably due to the expanded universe and different Spartan program.

I've got some catching up to do and what looks like a couple of new books to purchase.

Cryptum not only significantly fleshes out the Haloverse, it's also a pretty good read on its own merits.

 

[kittens]

Every time I see this bumped I keep thinking there's a new screen shot or trailer, or even a small tidbit from Frankie

Me too. :-(

 

[exYle]

Use of weapons.

BEST HALO EVER

 

[Hypertrooper]

This page and Slightly Live's responses have blown my mind.


I took a break from reading any Halo novels, stopped right in the middle of Contact:Harvest a year ago, and I have both the Cole Protocol and Halo Evolutions sitting on my bookshelf, mocking my laziness.

Now I find out that Cryptum is not only essential, but crucial to feeding that Halo lore I crave.

I still find Ghosts of Onyx to be my guilty pleasure of all the books. Probably due to the expanded universe and different Spartan program.

I've got some catching up to do and what looks like a couple of new books to purchase.

You have two weeks to read through Cryptum.

 

[Domino Theory]

BREAKING: Halo 4 has

Spoiler

designers

; set to feature

Spoiler

designed stuff

https://twitter.com/#!/scott_343/status/147545586072166400/photo/1

More info as it develops

 

[Buttonbasher]

BREAKING: Halo 4 has

Spoiler

designers

; set to feature

Spoiler

designed stuff

https://twitter.com/#!/scott_343/status/147545586072166400/photo/1

More info as it develops

Hot Scoops.

 

[Flipyap]

Don't forget the weird humanesque structures in the Babysitter episode of Legends.

Oh, they're not easily forgettable. Neither is the xenoarchaeological study report that closed Evolutions.
It's this specific chunk of recently expanded fiction that turned my return trek around Delta Halo into quite an awe-inspiring experience (in entirely new ways). This was always my favorite architectural mystery in the series and attempting to add some context to it was a lot of fun.

 

[Slightly Live]

Lets see...

Spoiler

- Humanesque architecture seen across the galaxy but Humanity, as we know it, didn't put them there.
- Ancient Humanity being split into several regressed sub-species, one of which (ourselves) was genetically manipulated to become the Inheritors/Reclaimers of the Forerunner Mantle
-"Unexplained" disappearance of the other Human sub-species after the Haloes were fired - could be related to the disruption in the fossil record

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to postulate that these "humanesque" ruins and remains belong to one of more of the Human sub-species maybe?

Imagine Humanity at the end of the Covenant War, teetering on the brink of extinction. We've survived and it looks like we'll be making some significant technological jumps but we've lost billions to the war and the fractures of of Insurrection have a firmer grasp after the war than they ever did before. We're a fractured species but we've survived and we're ready to rebuild. We're ready to embrace our role as Reclaimers of an ancient legacy.

What if the Master Chief discovers our long lost Humanesque brothers are not quite as lost as we thought? Ignorant of our own ancient history, what if there's another Humanity out there? One that's been building and developing for almost a hundred thousand years - waiting to be deemed worth of the Mantle.

I don't know to be honest. I'm not really convincing myself here with this but there are still mysteries left to think about with the strange ruins glimpsed about the galaxy.

Random thought. The Prisoner carries out some twisted biological experiments on ancient humans, as per Primordiums's description. Some plot device happens and suddenly he's sealed away in the Dark Planetoid of Halo 4 along with a modified human sub-species.

Ugh. Going to stop before I sound any more like a nutty Halo conspiracy theorist than I already am. =)

We might have a few more answers in about sixteen days from now.

 

[GhaleonEB]

It's Forerunner structures built on top of old, rock buildings.
I don't know what they were originally meant to be, but when you consider 343's additions to the fiction, the buildings look uncannily human.

Here's the full album of pictures from my recent xenoarcheological escapade on Delta Halo.

 

[desertdroog]

First thing I saw when that image was posted. And a second face in the second picture on the column on the left side.

Halo's real secrets are the hidden faces...there's gotta be a Mars connection somehow.

jk




['_']

 

[derFeef]

BREAKING: Halo 4 has

Spoiler

designers

; set to feature

Spoiler

designed stuff

https://twitter.com/#!/scott_343/status/147545586072166400/photo/1

More info as it develops

Did not know Tom French is at 343 now.

 

[SuicidalSteve]

BREAKING: Halo 4 has

Spoiler

designers

; set to feature

Spoiler

designed stuff

https://twitter.com/#!/scott_343/status/147545586072166400/photo/1

More info as it develops

Shocking News?

 

[Shake Appeal]

Use of weapons.

Hehehe.

 

[monome]

Use of weapons.

I hate you Frankie, but I love you too. Hard to decide but Bear's Halo books come around my birthday! so I tend to love you more than I hate you.

Spoiler

What if the Master Chief discovers our long lost Humanesque brothers are not quite as lost as we thought? Ignorant of our own ancient history, what if there's another Humanity out there? One that's been building and developing for almost a hundred thousand years - waiting to be deemed worth of the Mantle.

Spoiler

Don't really see how getting more Humans involved is pushing the story but never say never.
I think they're mostly introducing elements to make the Chief someone very special and get him above "just" being a Spartan.
Nowadays I tend to remind myself Halo is big enough to be sustained for decades ala SW and thus I shouldn't expect everything to fall into place too soon.
It's just a matter of pumping good material and get fans involved (but not too much) until it reaches the sweet spot. Gonna be crazy we Bungie's next game has launched and you get to decide which franchise gets the most of your moneyz.

 

[monome]

Hehehe.

The man known as Cheradenine Zakalwe was one of Special Circumstances’ foremost agents, changing the destiny of planets to suit the Culture through intrigue, dirty tricks or military action.
The woman known as Diziet Sma had plucked him from obscurity and pushed him towards his present eminence, but despite all their dealings she did not know him as well as she thought.

The drone known as Skaffen-Amtiskaw knew both of these people. It had once saved the woman’s life by massacring her attackers in a particularly bloody manner. It believed the man to be a burnt-out case. But not even its machine could see the horrors in his past.

Ferociously intelligent, both witty and horrific, Use of Weapons is a masterpiece of science fiction.
Halo 4 is the Empire Strikes back with a Reveangance! Believe!!!

 

[duk]

BREAKING: Halo 4 has

Spoiler

designers

; set to feature

Spoiler

designed stuff

https://twitter.com/#!/scott_343/status/147545586072166400/photo/1

More info as it develops

they seem like a badass group!!!

 

[TheOddOne]

Did not know Tom French is at 343 now.

It's so awesome to see open world designers, RPG designers and FPS designers in that group. Feels good.

Now a challenge to Detective GAF: Whats going on here? Domestic violence?

 

[derFeef]

I so awesome to see open world designers, RPG designers and FPS designers in that group. Feels good.

Now a challenge to Detective GAF: Whats going on here? Domestic violence?

Tom French kicking the kitty, lot's of Mountain Dew and lot's of obliterated screens.

 

[nico1982]

So, he said "new trilogy on the 360" and Halo 4 is coming out at the end of 2012.
Guess the Xbox 720 ain't coming anytime soon.

Not necessarily: the trilogy can start on the 360, then move to the 720. This will help 'drive' the 720 launch.