Togglesworlh
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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
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The_Player
Member
F2P confirmed.
If you can do it without endangering your carry or moving too far from your team, you should stack.
Usually lane, jungle farming is for when the lane is too risky. Granted, you could argue that lanes are rarely safe in a high level game but there will always be one lane that's not pushed as the others.
Lane when there's a lane pushed that is empty. Jungle when there are no lanes that you can farm safely and if you have wards watching entrances to jungle.
The million dollar question is: "Do I have to unlock heroes?"
Syphon Filter
Member
How you figure?
My bet is no. It will be the radical new feature from Valve.
Several reasons:
1) Every other MOBA is F2P (except Demigod lol)
2) F2P games typically generate more revenue than other business models
3) Dota 1 is already F2P via shady means on Garena/other clients, and Valve will want to convert those people to Dota 2
Retail fee + Cash shop is also a possibility, but unlikely. F2P's greatest strength is the "F" part, because that's how you get people addicted and, ideally, get money from those addicts.
DOTA 2 is going to be a strong enough game that they won't have to charge an initial fee as some kind of fallback. There is very little chance of it bombing, the question is if it will be a runaway success like LoL is. If they want to fight on the same ground, F2P is the way to go. HoN has more or less proved that.
The_Player
Member
One word: Hats.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Ugh I still wish they'd make it easier to invite and organize games and groups.
Steam exclusive multiplayer games are also a great way for Valve to get people to use the client on a regular basis. In all honesty I believe TF2 is one of the biggest reasons Steam is so popular now, and a free Dota will create massive amounts of growth for the service.
So long as Icefrog continue creating content for DOTA, it will be difficult to convince Asian players to switch if you add a $30 price tag to DOTA 2.
Either he renegs on his promise or they make it free. F2P is also the standard business model for pretty much every online game in Asia.
Either he renegs on his promise or they make it free. F2P is also the standard business model for pretty much every online game in Asia.
The_Player
Member
The only thing I wish they will still require one to have a game on their account to play F2P games as Dota 2, TF2, Alien Swarm, so hackers have smth to regret about after their accounts gonna be suspended.
LoftyTheMetroid
Member
How much money does Riot make from skins/aesthetics vs champion sales? Normally I would think champion sales would be higher, but the huge hat numbers in TF2 have demonstrated I know fuck all when it comes to what motivates F2P purchases.
Basically, I'm wondering if heroes being free would leave too much money on the table for Valve. I'd really like to think/hope they'll be free...
Basically, I'm wondering if heroes being free would leave too much money on the table for Valve. I'd really like to think/hope they'll be free...
jim-jam bongs
Member
Archie's point is the important one to pay attention to. Valve don't have to worry so much about charging for DOTA 2 when it's basically the key that unlocks the Asian market for Steam.
The_Player
Member
I bet they will, or Valve won't see any Dota 2 future as an eSports title. Exclusive pre-order skins for champions, couriers; new taunts, maybe sounds.
I think Valve is more then willing to leave some money on the table short term to make the player base better.
The only negative I could see happening is that they will loose the psychological value of people being "invested" in the game. Having to unlock Characters and Runes I feel is a higher level of investment into LoL then the proposed Cosmetic Hats and Swords in Dota 2. This could actually lead to a smaller play base, despite Dota 2 likely having better support, and being a game with a a few more layers of depth, because players don't see any sort of progression, and may leave to play other games.
Though Valve does have the XP thing, but who knows what the hell that will be used for.
The only negative I could see happening is that they will loose the psychological value of people being "invested" in the game. Having to unlock Characters and Runes I feel is a higher level of investment into LoL then the proposed Cosmetic Hats and Swords in Dota 2. This could actually lead to a smaller play base, despite Dota 2 likely having better support, and being a game with a a few more layers of depth, because players don't see any sort of progression, and may leave to play other games.
Though Valve does have the XP thing, but who knows what the hell that will be used for.
One reason I don't see the "unlocking heroes" model flying is that unlike LoL, Dota has many more 'hard' counters. i.e. if my opponent picks Riki and nobody on my team has Slardar then life just got much more difficult (especially since pubs aren't going to buy sentries/dust)
Actually, the main reason is the (established) playerbase would throw an almighty row over it.
Valve HQ would be stormed with torches and pitchforks.
When you already have a dedicated group of fans, your hands are kind of tied when it comes to business choices.
Valve HQ would be stormed with torches and pitchforks.
When you already have a dedicated group of fans, your hands are kind of tied when it comes to business choices.
I think Valve has all the arguments it needs for F2P (which is probably going to happen): TF2
Also, I just played a matchmaking game and lagged out twice early game for some reason. This was one of the times I lagged out.
I reconnected though and was at the fountain, but I had more kill!
Also, I just played a matchmaking game and lagged out twice early game for some reason. This was one of the times I lagged out.
I reconnected though and was at the fountain, but I had more kill!
SteveWinwood
Member
Lol the tf2 backpack.
LoftyTheMetroid
Member
Coincidentally, this is a major reason why I don't play LoL. Time investments are a huuuuge turn-off to me, particularly artificial ones. I realize I'm in the minority here, though, or else this type of design wouldn't be so successful...
There are three key points Valve needs to hit with me on Dota 2:
1) F2P
2) All heroes unlocked
3) An unprecedented array of tools/services to help new players overcome the absolutely incredible learning barrier, including a solution to the (still present) negative community attitudes/personalities
I really love reading about dota, watching dota, seeing the incredible art/sounds in Valve's interpretation of dota... but Valve still hasn't given me a reason to want to actually play dota yet due to point 3. I'm hoping that, at the very least, the huge influx of n00b Valve fans at the game's launch will give me an opportunity to actually become comfortable with the game and its mechanics before getting demolished by dota regulars...
Shit looks like Tekno gonna win that bet.
I doubt Valve could get away with making people unlock / buy heroes, the response from the community would be something fierce never before seen.
Although I do kind of like what their doing with giving each character different customisations, instead of just one skin that changes everything. I wonder what their going to do with heroes that don't have much that can be customised, Like Lich, a different Necklace?
I doubt Valve could get away with making people unlock / buy heroes, the response from the community would be something fierce never before seen.
Although I do kind of like what their doing with giving each character different customisations, instead of just one skin that changes everything. I wonder what their going to do with heroes that don't have much that can be customised, Like Lich, a different Necklace?
SteveWinwood
Member
Yeah it doesn't look bad at all. I just did a double take when I saw it.
New armor for Axe, necklaces for Dazzle, masks for Juggernaut, etc.
The more interesting ones will be characters that don't wear armor or have any cosmetics that can be changed. Although in that case I guess they can sell taunts.
The_Player
Member
Completely new skins? Don't you want to play as Anthelion instead of Venomancer? Just pre-order HL3, and you'll get it.
Ghetto Lich?
I'd perfer they just give every character a taunt, but for a hero like Venomancer, Viper, their very plane. Lots of the beast like heroes don't have much to be customised.
I'd rather not have complete re skins, unless they re-record the character lines to suit the new costumes, similar to what they do in HoN for completely new skins.
Yes
This is going to be like TF2's hats isn't it.
Items will drop randomly for victories. People will obsess over them. DOTA 2 items will be the de facto world currency.
I think Match Making will help out with fixing the community a bit on its own merits of placing people of close skill ranges and experience with each other.
Also, one thing I find a bit funny, I always feel the draw of Dota is the 'Easy to Learn, Difficult to Master" factor, but there is a decent knowledge barrier to really learn it.
Early images of the Stout Shield had it as a less beat up Charge N' Targe.
Also, one thing I find a bit funny, I always feel the draw of Dota is the 'Easy to Learn, Difficult to Master" factor, but there is a decent knowledge barrier to really learn it.
Early images of the Stout Shield had it as a less beat up Charge N' Targe.
I'm offended at your lack of sensitivity for my people!Yes
I can't help it, Chinese are born racist.
This explains Puppetyuber, also I didn't know you were Chinese, always thought you were a Caucasian.
This is enough for me. I'm willing to pay up to 50bucks if all heroes are unlocked. No way i'm spending the $250+ (and on going) for LoL.
Syphon Filter
Member
If it's FTP do you think they will have a premium account similar to tf2?
FlutterPuffs
Member
Anyone has any advice on how to be a good Windrunner?
It's all good, I'm a black man that plays MOBA's, I'm breaking the mold here.
Every time you say something like this, it gets wierder and wierder
Level up Windrun level 1, and read the Playdota guide.
The_Player
Member
Learn to use Shackleshot properly.
Basically. Also don't target with your stun launch it like a power shot so you can get the super stun.
LoftyTheMetroid
Member
I'd like to see even more, though. There is so much data, so many variables and base knowledge needed to play dota effectively that it really seems like an insurmountable barrier for the newcomer. For example, all of the items, item builds for each hero, hero abilities, hero matchups/counters, etc.
Like, someone above just mentioned Rikimaru and Slardar. I have no idea why having Slardar on my team would make a matchup against Rikimaru easier. I have absolutely no intuitive understanding of picks/counterpicks. It'd be even worse if, with my rudimentary knowledge of the game, I didn't know that Riki could go invis -- for a new player, dying to a character like that without prior understanding feels unfair and frustrating. Valve used to be incredibly concerned with details like this in their prior games (such as TF2), I wonder if they'll place the same emphasis in Dota 2.
This is really the point I'm most interested in seeing Valve tackle, even if I weren't going to play the game. It's an interesting design challenge, and I'm looking forward to Valve's solution almost as much as I am the game itself.
EQWWWR
Learn the timing and range for powershot.
Don't treat shackle shot as a targeted stun like Impale or Hex, you need to be able to get the shackle effect off whenever possible.
Use E to run, tower dive (it dodges towers), kite, and circle around heroes to shackle them.
R should be used for buildings, it is a terrible hero killing skill because you'll be running around shooting shit most of the time like Legolas.
Force Staff, Eul's, Orchid, Guinsoo are all great items on her. Mekansm too if your farming is good and no one else is getting it.
Learn the timing and range for powershot.
Don't treat shackle shot as a targeted stun like Impale or Hex, you need to be able to get the shackle effect off whenever possible.
Use E to run, tower dive (it dodges towers), kite, and circle around heroes to shackle them.
R should be used for buildings, it is a terrible hero killing skill because you'll be running around shooting shit most of the time like Legolas.
Force Staff, Eul's, Orchid, Guinsoo are all great items on her. Mekansm too if your farming is good and no one else is getting it.
SMH level 19 Ursa and level 20 Death Prophet 1 hour 23 minute into game.
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