December Wrasslin |OT| Shaking Hands, Jerking Knees, Eating Mistletoe, Feeling Energy
- Thread starter Mr. Sam
- Start date
- Status
British Monsoon
Member
Good Ol' JR said:
Goddamnit, why is it so hard for us to get a match of this calibre on TV, or even PPV? That's got to be the one most infuriating thing about this so called "WWE style" - they've got the talent, but they rarely let them cut loose and do what they do best; WRESTLE.
And what the hell is happening with McIntyre? He's a good wrestler, isn't awful at promos and just needs a good character or feud to set him straight, but for whatever reason he seems to be in someone's bad graces. Perhaps they're keeping him off TV until everyone's forgotten the fact that he was McMahon's "chosen one".
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Can someone post the Observer please?
Perspicacity
Banned
Yes they did. Obsessing over minute by minute breakdowns is something Bischoff was infamous for, part of the reason why WCW failed.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Raw segment-by-segment ratings from the latest issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter:
GotDAMN. Maybe this was because of the already slumping ratings of the past few months combined with the holiday dropoff. That or people have been so trained to expect Cena that they aren't willing to watch anyone else. Either way that's a terrible number and knowing the WWE, I'd expect some rushed changes as soon as 2 weeks from now. Cena and Orton bandage coming up.
The worst thing about these segment-by-segment breakdowns is that Vince McMahon is still very reactionary when it comes to low ratings. The most recent example I can remember is when Del Rio dropped the title to Cena at Night of Champions, a few days after Raw's rating dropped to a 2.7.
British Monsoon
Member
The last wrestling event held in the ECW Arena will be EVOLVE 10: A Tribute to the Arena;
Oh dear, I fear another ECW tribute speech from a teary-eyed Tommy Dreamer is inbound...Gargano/Ricochet should be awesome though.
Oh dear, I fear another ECW tribute speech from a teary-eyed Tommy Dreamer is inbound...Gargano/Ricochet should be awesome though.
I now expect Cena to destroy Kane with a swipe of his hand, all while winning the WWE and World titles.
Nocturnowl
Member
I was just watching the ladder match dvd, watching 2 ladder matches that were both Raw main events (Taker/Hardy and the Raw Roulette TLC4). It's like a world of difference to now, the crowd were much more into the matches, hell these were ppv quality matches as Raw main events. J.R is a one man commentary team for the TLC and it still destroys the current King/Cole combo of apathy and champ bashing.
Raw should actually put out some big main events matches every now and then instead of the by the numbers tag matches, title matches like Rey/Miz and the following Cena/Rey from earlier this year should have had much more fanfare behind them.
Raw should actually put out some big main events matches every now and then instead of the by the numbers tag matches, title matches like Rey/Miz and the following Cena/Rey from earlier this year should have had much more fanfare behind them.
canadian crowe
Member
Perspicacity
Banned
It'd be really nice if they could do main event segments on Raw/SD that weren't tied directly to PPV main event feud.
With a little marketing something like Ryder's US title win could've been a great Raw main event.
They think that Cena is the only one that can move ratings, but then never let anyone else try for any significant period and build a following. It seems that's being passed to Punk quite a bit now, but I feel like I'm in the honeymoon period of an abusive relationship
Keyser Soze
Member
^^^
That's a perfect GTFO
That's a perfect GTFO
Liquidsnake
Banned
"The John Cena promo which also included Mark Henry and Kane gained 428,000 viewers and did a 3.18 quarter."
Sometimes, I just want to give up watching again. There is no hope, I have lost touch, and what I like isn't cool anymore. What I hate, gets the highest ratings.
Sometimes, I just want to give up watching again. There is no hope, I have lost touch, and what I like isn't cool anymore.
What I hate, gets the highest ratings.Keyser Soze
Member
"The John Cena promo which also included Mark Henry and Kane gained 428,000 viewers and did a 3.18 quarter."
Sometimes, I just want to give up watching again. There is no hope, I have lost touch, and what I like isn't cool anymore.
It will all work out sometimes.
Lets hold each other
dream
Member
Going in, the WWEs TLC PPV on 12/18 in Baltimores First Mariner Arena seemed like just another show with a poorly prepared main event featuring challengers with very little main event credibility.
Two-thirds of the way through the show, it came across as a bad show. The show ended with an excellent main event. But when the dust cleared, it came across like a story in that C.M. Punk was WWE champion and Daniel Bryan was World champion. Punk retained his title in a three-way TLC match over The Miz and Alberto Del Rio.
Bryan cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase to pin a knocked out Big Show after Show had pinned Mark Henry to win the title, but was dropped on his head with a DDT on a chair by Henry in a post-match attack.
Punk and Bryan both garnered stardom as two of the big three with Samoa Joe years back in early days of Ring of Honor. At the time, people said all three would never make it. Joe didnt have the look or physique. Punk wasnt big and didnt have a major league physique, and because Bryan was short and didnt have a look, even with a good physique, none were even considered WWE prospects. Joe went to TNA and had strong initial success, although has languished for the past few years.
Punk was signed by WWE, languished in developmental for a long time, was only brought up because Paul Heyman, who was booking developmental and used Punk as one of his top stars in OVW, got booking power over the new ECW and pushed for him to be brought in. Still, when Heyman tried to make him champion, the idea was shunned, and it was part of a series of wheels in motion that led to Heymans departure from the company.
Punk was filled with black marks, but what he had going for him was he was an excellent promo. He got his first world title as a fluke based on Money in the Bank, but did better with it than expected. It wasnt an Edge title reign where a guy not thought of at world title level gets the belt and does so well hes in that position for the rest of his career. Punk had his ups and downs over the next few years, working anywhere from the low card to the main events until his promo and angle this summer, and two wins over John Cena, that solidified him as a main event champion level performer.
From talking to one person very close with the backstage regarding Bryan, it has its own notable story. Even though Bryan was considered by many as the best technical wrestler in the business, and had some of the best matches in the world for years, and made it in the big leagues in Japan, his look was a detriment. TNA, even when trying to solidify its X Division and with people who knew of him, never showed much interest with the idea he was excellent technically but didnt have what it took to be a star. Usually, the best predictor of being a star is already being a star, and at the level Bryan Danielson was at, he had gotten over as a huge star for years. His work was there. His wrestling brain, the most underrated aspect of being a star, was top shelf. And he could do a promo. The size wasnt there, but size has never been less important whether it be in the U.S,, Japan or anywhere, when it comes to being a star, and verbal ability and at least being good in the ring have never been more important. But now, because of limited opportunities in the business, the biggest factor is luck. That is, that the decision makers pick your number.
He got to WWE and was also sent to developmental, where he stood out above everyone there. He was introduced on NXT and immediately made both good and bad impressions. The wrestlers for the most part all liked him. The fans saw him as the star of the first season of the show. But Vince McMahon didnt see a star in him, and kept saying that there was no money in him. They booked him to lose almost every match because they wanted to do a legitimate contest but also book it so that the people they thought should be in the spotlight would win at the end. The reason he was pulled from NXT and eliminated early was because the voting was legitimate and there was a fear in a real poll, that he would get the points to win and he wasnt seen as having the potential to be a star that the others, such as Wade Barrett or David Otunga, had. On a side note, the same thing happened the second season with Kaval, and since that season, Vince himself treated NXT as a joke because Kaval was beaten at every opportunity on the show because they didnt want him winning, but he legitimately got the fans votes and the respect of the coaches to win. He was then buried and cut. NXT stopped meaning a thing because WWE couldnt control the fans voting and having people win every week to get them over and lose every week to bury them carried no weight with the viewers who were voting for the wrong people and not understanding potential to be a star.
But unlike Kaval, who carried himself like he was somebody because he had success in Japan, and they felt at his size walking around and acting like a star and tough guy was a joke, Bryan was very well liked. The agents loved him. The wrestlers respected him and wanted to work with him and put him over and wanted him to look good. He was praised for his work ethic and privately some thought he would eventually be a superstar, and was compared to Chris Benoit, a name that cant be used, but was an example of a guy who had a long career as one of the top guys in the business, was considered too small to be in the major leagues (size definitions being different in his era) and had to struggle with being labeled badly in both WCW and WWF, but eventually became a top star and was one of the two most respected stars in the company before the last weekend of his life. The idea was Bryan would wind up as a player because talent eventually makes it, but would probably struggle and have to overcome a lot of perceptions and adversity before he got there. But once he got there, hed stay at that level. But then he did get there at SummerSlam a few years ago, and in the WWE stop-and-start push category, he was just one of a dozen Kofi Kingstons.
When the writers would come up with ideas past the obvious feud with Miz at first, Vince would temper them by saying the guy isnt money. It was never Vince saw him like Kaval. But the entire Michael Cole dynamic that people hate is Vinces idea that the only way Bryan could be over is as this nerd character who eventually, like in Revenge of the Nerds, on occasion he gets his big triumphs and sticks it in the oppressing bullys face.
The almost perfect storm of Punk and Daniel as champions on Raw in Philadelphia, the home of ROH, was hardly a long-term plan. The wheels were only set into motion a few days before the PPV.
It started at the 12/12 Raw show when John Cena was facing Henry. Henry delivered the Worlds Strongest Slam and injured his groin. He rolled out of the ring immediately. The planned spot was for Kane to come to the ring, look at Henry, who everyone believed he was after, and then turn around and choke slam Cena. Instead, there was no Henry, so Kane had to go out of the ring, and it was all impromptu as he got out there, and he stared at Henry, had to get back in the ring and choke slam Cena.
After Henry got to the back, he was in tremendous pain. Hes known as a tough guy who can take pain, so this was concerning because he was screaming loud. The trainers said he was okay that night, but others werent convinced. It wasnt until later exams where it was determined he was hurt bad enough that he should take a little bit of time off. Were still not clear if it was a badly pulled groin or a torn groin. When it was clear he couldnt work at TLC (although he did) or for at least some time after, the idea was to take the title from him, and it sent into motion the idea of going with Bryan beating Show, since Show as champion wouldnt really be seen as much of a big deal.
Bryan was always going to win the title and the plan was at WrestleMania at first, but then it changed to Elimination Chamber, and had changed again.
Winning the title really doesnt mean that much anymore. Jack Swagger had it. Christian, who theyve never seen as a money player even though he gets over with the fans because hes a great worker and talker, had a run in the title mix, but that was seen as something because of a depth issue and that there was nobody else for the spot at the time to work with Orton. Its how you are booked as champion so time will tell what this means. Again, Edge was only supposed to be a fluke champion for a few weeks just to surprise people before going back to Cena, and ended up with multiple title reigns and years on top. Punk was given the belt but it was clear he was given a present and in his first reign, was clearly not positioned like a champion, but a few years later ended up as a legit top guy. So who is to say what will happen.
The next night, there was a photo taken that made its way on the Internet of all the company champions posing together with their belts, Punk, Bryan, Kofi Kingston (Punks traveling mate at times), Evan Bourne, Beth Phoenix (Punks recent girlfriend), Zack Ryder (who Punk has endorsed in his promos because he got himself over on his own as opposed to being hand picked) and Cody Rhodes. The idea is that its a new era and the young people are champions, even though Punk himself is now almost 33, Phoenix is 31 which is almost ancient for a female performer in a business based on scouting this years Maxim Hometown Hotties and Hawaiian Tropics bikini catalogues for talent. Kingston is 30 and Bryan is also 30, and has been in the business for 12 years. Still, if belts were what they were in the business in another generation, this would be the signal of a change. And it did feel like something different on television, like there had been an infusion of new stars and that the new stars were getting over.
There has never been more of a difference between live crowd reaction and ratings as there has been in recent weeks, in particular when it comes to Zack Ryder. But the trios main event with Punk & Ryder & Bryan vs. The Miz & Alberto Del Rio & Dolph Ziggler on the 12/19 show in Philadelphia was likely the lowest rated Raw main event/into overrun segment (2.67 for the match) for a regular episode of Raw going back to probably 1997 or early 1998. The number was so staggeringly low on a show that overall was in the ballpark ratings-wise from the last few weeks of the show.
The football excuse doesnt wash because that would affect the entire show, which did regular level numbers, not just the main event. Match quality doesnt answer the question since it was a great bout with a hot crowd. Its true that a change with new people at the top can take some time (but at the same time, such changes often jump start ratings immediately as did both Edge and Punks title reigns, and while Edge benefitted from January, the ratings change was more than an annual bounce back). You should never overreact to one week, but its also something to look out for.
Times may have changed and he may prove people wrong, but the dichotomy of Ryder as a guy who has gotten over really big because of a combination of being the cool guy if youre hip to cheer for and to the small percentage that watch his youtube show is also tempered that the average person watching the show sees him as a channel-changer. But if hes pushed as a star long enough, usually people will see him as one. The question becomes does the company see him a flash in the pan and book him one way, or do they stick with him. Given the companys track records of who gets the rocket, and then giving up (see Mason Ryan, who was the one groomed for Ziggler and then dropped, and its hard to argue that Ziggler was far more preferable given the comparison; Ezekiel Jackson and so many others over the years) quickly when it doesnt automatically take, the odds arent good. But what is good is Ryder got over with the New York audience, which is given more credence as a barometer than any other audience, and even more at times than people switching channels during the show.
Bryan is another one. When you go in with the pre-conceived notion that the guy is a good performer but not money, and that this belt reign was a feel good moment but hes not seen as close to Randy Orton, being world champion doesnt mean all that much. But it does put him in the spotlight and the opportunity is there if the audience gets behind him, both the arena audience and the masses at home.
The other major news story out of the show is the possible end of the career of Kevin Nash. Nash, 52, hasnt gotten over even with a massive push on this run. Originally designed for a program with Punk, he laid Punk out over and over without ever giving back, reminiscent of his legendary ability to manipulate the system. In the end, his only major match, and perhaps his last, was putting over and doing a stretcher job for his buddy, HHH. But all the smoke and mirrors couldnt hide that the fans didnt care about the match. The match wasnt that bad. It definitely wasnt good, but after seeing so many young guys work at a certain speed and level, the idea of less is more didnt work at all on the Baltimore crowd. The match was also hampered by going so long, as HHHs sometimes overconfidence in his own ability to carry lesser workers was exemplified here.
Nash wrote after the match, Thanks Paul, nice to end it with someone I love. While Nash may still take paydays to work indie shows, and they did announce he had a broken nose to explain him being off TV in case they bring him back later, the talk in WWE was that this was his last match with the company.
The company now has a long break before the start of Mania season with the Royal Rumble on 1/29 in St. Louis. The keys to watch for is the post-football bounce back where all of a sudden people who were dumb one day become smart the next. Besides, as much as any year in a long-time, this years Mania being a success is a given. The key things are not the Mania build (although not screwing up the Mania build is important as weve seen that happen more than once) as much as the launching of the network and what to do after Mania.
The first match of The Rock in more than seven years did not make nearly the difference one would have hoped for when it came to the Survivor Series PPV numbers.
The WWEs first estimates of the 11/20 show from a sold out Madison Square Garden, headlined by The Rock & John Cena vs. The Miz & R-Truth, was 280,000 worldwide buys and 180,000 domestic buys.
The number was only up 14.8% worldwide and 41.7% domestically from the figures of 244,000 and 127,000 respectively from 2010. It was also up from the 2009 figures, but actually below the 2008 show which did 319,000 worldwide buys and 191,000 domestic buys for a show headlined by Cena vs. Chris Jericho for the World title and HHH vs. Edge (replacing Jeff Hardy who they did an angle with) vs. Vladimir Kozlov for the WWE title.
The show also continues the pattern that even with big shows, the overseas market for PPV has weakened, particularly in places like Italy and Mexico, as only 36% of buys came from overseas. Not that many months ago there were shows where more than half the buys came from outside North America.
Last years show had Randy Orton defending the WWE title against Wade Barrett with Cena as referee. It was the match with the storyline that Cena would be fired by Barrett from WWE unless he made sure as referee that Barrett won the title. Cena didnt favor Barrett as referee. Orton won. Cena was fired and didnt even stay fired for even one television show, and appeared at all shows before the firing angle was dropped. It also had Kane defending the world title against Edge.
This years show was built all around Rocks return. Whether his wrestling on this show hurt WrestleMania, as has been argued, I dont see. But it does tell a lesson. The fan base sees WWE as certain shows. There is a base that will buy certain shows, that is fairly small right now. In the future, if youve got something that should draw, it should be done at either WrestleMania, or if the timing doesnt work, at Royal Rumble or SummerSlam. There were reasons, notably Madison Square Garden being Madison Square Garden, his grandfather headlining with Superstar Billy Graham and his own first major career match and final career match being in the building that told a story. Of course on television, nobody told that story and it was only told by Rock himself once the PPV already was on. But for future references, if there is a Shawn Michaels comeback or John Cena retires and comes back, if the business is the same business, it really should be saved for Mania when the most casual people will at least consider ordering the show.
The show may have been hurt far more than anyone thought going in as WWE shows always do lower numbers coming the day after a domestic UFC show. A few weeks out, one would have thought the return of The Rock would be much bigger than a show headlined by Dan Henderson vs. Shogun Rua and Cung Le vs. Wanderlei Silva. It did seem as the respective shows approached that UFC, which did 290,000 domestic buys for the show, would probably beat the UFC numbers, but the degree surprised some people. The released number was not a big surprise as trending patterns from shortly after the show did indicate about 175,000 domestic buys for Survivor Series.
Besides Rock vs. Cena, Survivor Series had C.M. Punk over Alberto Del Rio to win the WWE title and Mark Henry vs. Big Show for the world title.
Devon Nicholson, 29, best known for his lawsuit against Abdullah the Butcher and the WWE, nearly became the first full-time pro wrestler to go into the Olympics. Of course, until the early 90s this wouldnt have been possible because Yoshiaki Yatsu, who would have had a good shot at being on the Japanese team in 1988 after winning the national championship the year before, was ruled ineligible by the IOC. Aleksey Medvedev, the 6-8, 265-pound Russian giant wasnt a full-time pro wrestler, but was a pro wrestler in Japan in the early 90s with the PWFG promotion. After that point in time he won a silver medal in the 1996 Olympics as a freestyle superheavyweight and also went in 2000 (as a trivia note, at one point he was slated to appear in an early UFC, also before going to the Olympics, but it fell through). Nicholson, who had just started wrestling competitively the past few months, placed second in the Canadian Olympic trials held on 12/16 and 12/17 in Winnipeg as a superheavyweight in Greco-Roman wrestling. He had qualified for the tournament and won four or five matches in a row before losing to favorite Sunny Dhinsa. Hes now an alternate on the team. Nicholson had a strong amateur background, being Canadas teenage national champion as a heavyweight in 2001 before turning down college offers and instead going to Calgary to get into pro wrestling, where he had a very controversial underground career. He quit pro wrestling because WWE wouldnt take him due to Hepatitis C. Nicholson at first was going to stop amateur wrestling since he didnt quality for the team, due to the expense to stay in the sport and no money in the sport, but as a sport he prefers grappling over wrestling. I prefer grappling over wrestling as I feel its a better test of someones fighting ability and there are less rules, which I like. Competing in the trials was just a short term goal. But he said he will remain active at least until the London Olympics in case Dhinsa is injured since hes first alternate. The only other thing I can remember was when Brian Keck was under contract to WWE and he competed in the 2004 U.S. Olympic trials and placed, but it was like eighth. He actually got in trouble for that as he never told WWE and they never publicized it. He was based in OVW at the time and they had some good training partners there at the time including Brock Lesnar, Shelton Benjamin and Ron Waterman and they were secretly helping him. I had figured WWE and OVW would publicize that he placed but I guess both were so mad about it that they didnt acknowledge it and he was cut soon after.
Linda Hogan signed on to do a VH-1 reality show Relationship Rehab, trying to repair her strained relationship with 23-year-old Charley Hill. Apparently Linda is mad at him for not being ambitious and getting a well-paying job. Im not making that up, either. She met him when he was the pool boy for her pool.
And speaking of train wrecks, Chyna is now working as a touring stripper at clubs. Chyna has been asking $5,000 for appearances at wrestling events. In other news, Chyna has no appearances at upcoming wrestling events.
Two-thirds of the way through the show, it came across as a bad show. The show ended with an excellent main event. But when the dust cleared, it came across like a story in that C.M. Punk was WWE champion and Daniel Bryan was World champion. Punk retained his title in a three-way TLC match over The Miz and Alberto Del Rio.
Bryan cashed in his Money in the Bank briefcase to pin a knocked out Big Show after Show had pinned Mark Henry to win the title, but was dropped on his head with a DDT on a chair by Henry in a post-match attack.
Punk and Bryan both garnered stardom as two of the big three with Samoa Joe years back in early days of Ring of Honor. At the time, people said all three would never make it. Joe didnt have the look or physique. Punk wasnt big and didnt have a major league physique, and because Bryan was short and didnt have a look, even with a good physique, none were even considered WWE prospects. Joe went to TNA and had strong initial success, although has languished for the past few years.
Punk was signed by WWE, languished in developmental for a long time, was only brought up because Paul Heyman, who was booking developmental and used Punk as one of his top stars in OVW, got booking power over the new ECW and pushed for him to be brought in. Still, when Heyman tried to make him champion, the idea was shunned, and it was part of a series of wheels in motion that led to Heymans departure from the company.
Punk was filled with black marks, but what he had going for him was he was an excellent promo. He got his first world title as a fluke based on Money in the Bank, but did better with it than expected. It wasnt an Edge title reign where a guy not thought of at world title level gets the belt and does so well hes in that position for the rest of his career. Punk had his ups and downs over the next few years, working anywhere from the low card to the main events until his promo and angle this summer, and two wins over John Cena, that solidified him as a main event champion level performer.
From talking to one person very close with the backstage regarding Bryan, it has its own notable story. Even though Bryan was considered by many as the best technical wrestler in the business, and had some of the best matches in the world for years, and made it in the big leagues in Japan, his look was a detriment. TNA, even when trying to solidify its X Division and with people who knew of him, never showed much interest with the idea he was excellent technically but didnt have what it took to be a star. Usually, the best predictor of being a star is already being a star, and at the level Bryan Danielson was at, he had gotten over as a huge star for years. His work was there. His wrestling brain, the most underrated aspect of being a star, was top shelf. And he could do a promo. The size wasnt there, but size has never been less important whether it be in the U.S,, Japan or anywhere, when it comes to being a star, and verbal ability and at least being good in the ring have never been more important. But now, because of limited opportunities in the business, the biggest factor is luck. That is, that the decision makers pick your number.
He got to WWE and was also sent to developmental, where he stood out above everyone there. He was introduced on NXT and immediately made both good and bad impressions. The wrestlers for the most part all liked him. The fans saw him as the star of the first season of the show. But Vince McMahon didnt see a star in him, and kept saying that there was no money in him. They booked him to lose almost every match because they wanted to do a legitimate contest but also book it so that the people they thought should be in the spotlight would win at the end. The reason he was pulled from NXT and eliminated early was because the voting was legitimate and there was a fear in a real poll, that he would get the points to win and he wasnt seen as having the potential to be a star that the others, such as Wade Barrett or David Otunga, had. On a side note, the same thing happened the second season with Kaval, and since that season, Vince himself treated NXT as a joke because Kaval was beaten at every opportunity on the show because they didnt want him winning, but he legitimately got the fans votes and the respect of the coaches to win. He was then buried and cut. NXT stopped meaning a thing because WWE couldnt control the fans voting and having people win every week to get them over and lose every week to bury them carried no weight with the viewers who were voting for the wrong people and not understanding potential to be a star.
But unlike Kaval, who carried himself like he was somebody because he had success in Japan, and they felt at his size walking around and acting like a star and tough guy was a joke, Bryan was very well liked. The agents loved him. The wrestlers respected him and wanted to work with him and put him over and wanted him to look good. He was praised for his work ethic and privately some thought he would eventually be a superstar, and was compared to Chris Benoit, a name that cant be used, but was an example of a guy who had a long career as one of the top guys in the business, was considered too small to be in the major leagues (size definitions being different in his era) and had to struggle with being labeled badly in both WCW and WWF, but eventually became a top star and was one of the two most respected stars in the company before the last weekend of his life. The idea was Bryan would wind up as a player because talent eventually makes it, but would probably struggle and have to overcome a lot of perceptions and adversity before he got there. But once he got there, hed stay at that level. But then he did get there at SummerSlam a few years ago, and in the WWE stop-and-start push category, he was just one of a dozen Kofi Kingstons.
When the writers would come up with ideas past the obvious feud with Miz at first, Vince would temper them by saying the guy isnt money. It was never Vince saw him like Kaval. But the entire Michael Cole dynamic that people hate is Vinces idea that the only way Bryan could be over is as this nerd character who eventually, like in Revenge of the Nerds, on occasion he gets his big triumphs and sticks it in the oppressing bullys face.
The almost perfect storm of Punk and Daniel as champions on Raw in Philadelphia, the home of ROH, was hardly a long-term plan. The wheels were only set into motion a few days before the PPV.
It started at the 12/12 Raw show when John Cena was facing Henry. Henry delivered the Worlds Strongest Slam and injured his groin. He rolled out of the ring immediately. The planned spot was for Kane to come to the ring, look at Henry, who everyone believed he was after, and then turn around and choke slam Cena. Instead, there was no Henry, so Kane had to go out of the ring, and it was all impromptu as he got out there, and he stared at Henry, had to get back in the ring and choke slam Cena.
After Henry got to the back, he was in tremendous pain. Hes known as a tough guy who can take pain, so this was concerning because he was screaming loud. The trainers said he was okay that night, but others werent convinced. It wasnt until later exams where it was determined he was hurt bad enough that he should take a little bit of time off. Were still not clear if it was a badly pulled groin or a torn groin. When it was clear he couldnt work at TLC (although he did) or for at least some time after, the idea was to take the title from him, and it sent into motion the idea of going with Bryan beating Show, since Show as champion wouldnt really be seen as much of a big deal.
Bryan was always going to win the title and the plan was at WrestleMania at first, but then it changed to Elimination Chamber, and had changed again.
Winning the title really doesnt mean that much anymore. Jack Swagger had it. Christian, who theyve never seen as a money player even though he gets over with the fans because hes a great worker and talker, had a run in the title mix, but that was seen as something because of a depth issue and that there was nobody else for the spot at the time to work with Orton. Its how you are booked as champion so time will tell what this means. Again, Edge was only supposed to be a fluke champion for a few weeks just to surprise people before going back to Cena, and ended up with multiple title reigns and years on top. Punk was given the belt but it was clear he was given a present and in his first reign, was clearly not positioned like a champion, but a few years later ended up as a legit top guy. So who is to say what will happen.
The next night, there was a photo taken that made its way on the Internet of all the company champions posing together with their belts, Punk, Bryan, Kofi Kingston (Punks traveling mate at times), Evan Bourne, Beth Phoenix (Punks recent girlfriend), Zack Ryder (who Punk has endorsed in his promos because he got himself over on his own as opposed to being hand picked) and Cody Rhodes. The idea is that its a new era and the young people are champions, even though Punk himself is now almost 33, Phoenix is 31 which is almost ancient for a female performer in a business based on scouting this years Maxim Hometown Hotties and Hawaiian Tropics bikini catalogues for talent. Kingston is 30 and Bryan is also 30, and has been in the business for 12 years. Still, if belts were what they were in the business in another generation, this would be the signal of a change. And it did feel like something different on television, like there had been an infusion of new stars and that the new stars were getting over.
There has never been more of a difference between live crowd reaction and ratings as there has been in recent weeks, in particular when it comes to Zack Ryder. But the trios main event with Punk & Ryder & Bryan vs. The Miz & Alberto Del Rio & Dolph Ziggler on the 12/19 show in Philadelphia was likely the lowest rated Raw main event/into overrun segment (2.67 for the match) for a regular episode of Raw going back to probably 1997 or early 1998. The number was so staggeringly low on a show that overall was in the ballpark ratings-wise from the last few weeks of the show.
The football excuse doesnt wash because that would affect the entire show, which did regular level numbers, not just the main event. Match quality doesnt answer the question since it was a great bout with a hot crowd. Its true that a change with new people at the top can take some time (but at the same time, such changes often jump start ratings immediately as did both Edge and Punks title reigns, and while Edge benefitted from January, the ratings change was more than an annual bounce back). You should never overreact to one week, but its also something to look out for.
Times may have changed and he may prove people wrong, but the dichotomy of Ryder as a guy who has gotten over really big because of a combination of being the cool guy if youre hip to cheer for and to the small percentage that watch his youtube show is also tempered that the average person watching the show sees him as a channel-changer. But if hes pushed as a star long enough, usually people will see him as one. The question becomes does the company see him a flash in the pan and book him one way, or do they stick with him. Given the companys track records of who gets the rocket, and then giving up (see Mason Ryan, who was the one groomed for Ziggler and then dropped, and its hard to argue that Ziggler was far more preferable given the comparison; Ezekiel Jackson and so many others over the years) quickly when it doesnt automatically take, the odds arent good. But what is good is Ryder got over with the New York audience, which is given more credence as a barometer than any other audience, and even more at times than people switching channels during the show.
Bryan is another one. When you go in with the pre-conceived notion that the guy is a good performer but not money, and that this belt reign was a feel good moment but hes not seen as close to Randy Orton, being world champion doesnt mean all that much. But it does put him in the spotlight and the opportunity is there if the audience gets behind him, both the arena audience and the masses at home.
The other major news story out of the show is the possible end of the career of Kevin Nash. Nash, 52, hasnt gotten over even with a massive push on this run. Originally designed for a program with Punk, he laid Punk out over and over without ever giving back, reminiscent of his legendary ability to manipulate the system. In the end, his only major match, and perhaps his last, was putting over and doing a stretcher job for his buddy, HHH. But all the smoke and mirrors couldnt hide that the fans didnt care about the match. The match wasnt that bad. It definitely wasnt good, but after seeing so many young guys work at a certain speed and level, the idea of less is more didnt work at all on the Baltimore crowd. The match was also hampered by going so long, as HHHs sometimes overconfidence in his own ability to carry lesser workers was exemplified here.
Nash wrote after the match, Thanks Paul, nice to end it with someone I love. While Nash may still take paydays to work indie shows, and they did announce he had a broken nose to explain him being off TV in case they bring him back later, the talk in WWE was that this was his last match with the company.
The company now has a long break before the start of Mania season with the Royal Rumble on 1/29 in St. Louis. The keys to watch for is the post-football bounce back where all of a sudden people who were dumb one day become smart the next. Besides, as much as any year in a long-time, this years Mania being a success is a given. The key things are not the Mania build (although not screwing up the Mania build is important as weve seen that happen more than once) as much as the launching of the network and what to do after Mania.
The first match of The Rock in more than seven years did not make nearly the difference one would have hoped for when it came to the Survivor Series PPV numbers.
The WWEs first estimates of the 11/20 show from a sold out Madison Square Garden, headlined by The Rock & John Cena vs. The Miz & R-Truth, was 280,000 worldwide buys and 180,000 domestic buys.
The number was only up 14.8% worldwide and 41.7% domestically from the figures of 244,000 and 127,000 respectively from 2010. It was also up from the 2009 figures, but actually below the 2008 show which did 319,000 worldwide buys and 191,000 domestic buys for a show headlined by Cena vs. Chris Jericho for the World title and HHH vs. Edge (replacing Jeff Hardy who they did an angle with) vs. Vladimir Kozlov for the WWE title.
The show also continues the pattern that even with big shows, the overseas market for PPV has weakened, particularly in places like Italy and Mexico, as only 36% of buys came from overseas. Not that many months ago there were shows where more than half the buys came from outside North America.
Last years show had Randy Orton defending the WWE title against Wade Barrett with Cena as referee. It was the match with the storyline that Cena would be fired by Barrett from WWE unless he made sure as referee that Barrett won the title. Cena didnt favor Barrett as referee. Orton won. Cena was fired and didnt even stay fired for even one television show, and appeared at all shows before the firing angle was dropped. It also had Kane defending the world title against Edge.
This years show was built all around Rocks return. Whether his wrestling on this show hurt WrestleMania, as has been argued, I dont see. But it does tell a lesson. The fan base sees WWE as certain shows. There is a base that will buy certain shows, that is fairly small right now. In the future, if youve got something that should draw, it should be done at either WrestleMania, or if the timing doesnt work, at Royal Rumble or SummerSlam. There were reasons, notably Madison Square Garden being Madison Square Garden, his grandfather headlining with Superstar Billy Graham and his own first major career match and final career match being in the building that told a story. Of course on television, nobody told that story and it was only told by Rock himself once the PPV already was on. But for future references, if there is a Shawn Michaels comeback or John Cena retires and comes back, if the business is the same business, it really should be saved for Mania when the most casual people will at least consider ordering the show.
The show may have been hurt far more than anyone thought going in as WWE shows always do lower numbers coming the day after a domestic UFC show. A few weeks out, one would have thought the return of The Rock would be much bigger than a show headlined by Dan Henderson vs. Shogun Rua and Cung Le vs. Wanderlei Silva. It did seem as the respective shows approached that UFC, which did 290,000 domestic buys for the show, would probably beat the UFC numbers, but the degree surprised some people. The released number was not a big surprise as trending patterns from shortly after the show did indicate about 175,000 domestic buys for Survivor Series.
Besides Rock vs. Cena, Survivor Series had C.M. Punk over Alberto Del Rio to win the WWE title and Mark Henry vs. Big Show for the world title.
Devon Nicholson, 29, best known for his lawsuit against Abdullah the Butcher and the WWE, nearly became the first full-time pro wrestler to go into the Olympics. Of course, until the early 90s this wouldnt have been possible because Yoshiaki Yatsu, who would have had a good shot at being on the Japanese team in 1988 after winning the national championship the year before, was ruled ineligible by the IOC. Aleksey Medvedev, the 6-8, 265-pound Russian giant wasnt a full-time pro wrestler, but was a pro wrestler in Japan in the early 90s with the PWFG promotion. After that point in time he won a silver medal in the 1996 Olympics as a freestyle superheavyweight and also went in 2000 (as a trivia note, at one point he was slated to appear in an early UFC, also before going to the Olympics, but it fell through). Nicholson, who had just started wrestling competitively the past few months, placed second in the Canadian Olympic trials held on 12/16 and 12/17 in Winnipeg as a superheavyweight in Greco-Roman wrestling. He had qualified for the tournament and won four or five matches in a row before losing to favorite Sunny Dhinsa. Hes now an alternate on the team. Nicholson had a strong amateur background, being Canadas teenage national champion as a heavyweight in 2001 before turning down college offers and instead going to Calgary to get into pro wrestling, where he had a very controversial underground career. He quit pro wrestling because WWE wouldnt take him due to Hepatitis C. Nicholson at first was going to stop amateur wrestling since he didnt quality for the team, due to the expense to stay in the sport and no money in the sport, but as a sport he prefers grappling over wrestling. I prefer grappling over wrestling as I feel its a better test of someones fighting ability and there are less rules, which I like. Competing in the trials was just a short term goal. But he said he will remain active at least until the London Olympics in case Dhinsa is injured since hes first alternate. The only other thing I can remember was when Brian Keck was under contract to WWE and he competed in the 2004 U.S. Olympic trials and placed, but it was like eighth. He actually got in trouble for that as he never told WWE and they never publicized it. He was based in OVW at the time and they had some good training partners there at the time including Brock Lesnar, Shelton Benjamin and Ron Waterman and they were secretly helping him. I had figured WWE and OVW would publicize that he placed but I guess both were so mad about it that they didnt acknowledge it and he was cut soon after.
Linda Hogan signed on to do a VH-1 reality show Relationship Rehab, trying to repair her strained relationship with 23-year-old Charley Hill. Apparently Linda is mad at him for not being ambitious and getting a well-paying job. Im not making that up, either. She met him when he was the pool boy for her pool.
And speaking of train wrecks, Chyna is now working as a touring stripper at clubs. Chyna has been asking $5,000 for appearances at wrestling events. In other news, Chyna has no appearances at upcoming wrestling events.
TigerUppercut
Member
You're not the only one. I don't watch WWE specifically because of Michael Cole and it's really too bad because there's a lot of dudes that I'd enjoy seeing like CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, Dolph Ziggler, and Daniel Bryan but I don't want to listen to some annoying idiot shit all over everything for 4 hours a week.
Seraphis Cain
bad gameplay lol
Yeah, I'm thiiiiis close to just quitting now while things are awesome. =/ But I won't. I'm going to stick it out and hope we don't get a knee-jerk ratings reaction from Vince that kills what we've got now.
Also, regarding WWE '12, did anyone here just get the Unlock All DLC? I'm really tempted to just do that instead of playing through RTWM.
Also, regarding WWE '12, did anyone here just get the Unlock All DLC? I'm really tempted to just do that instead of playing through RTWM.
dream
Member
The reason Karen Jarrett was fired along with Jeff was because she needs to have surgery on her foot which will put her out of action for a while. Jeffs storyline firing is because hes busy with outside wrestling projects including the India satellite promotion that hes in charge of and the All Wheels Wrestling TV show earmarked for The Speed Channel. There are no plans for either of them to be back any time soon.
With Karen gone, they are doing a storyline to build to Sting naming a new Vice President of the Knockouts division. At TV, Madison Rayne was doing promos acting like she knew she was going to be picked, which probably would mean shes not.
Vince Russo is now doing bullet points for James Storm instead of scripting his promos. Storm has been working his ass off on improving his interviews, which are at the top of the food chain in wrestling right now. Hes been like Josh Barnett, studying youtube videos of the best promo guys for mental tips to improve.
Linda McMahon is trying to downplay her last name and pro wrestling in her second run for the senate. I saw one of her campaign mailers looking for funds and shes pushing herself as simply Linda in big letters without the McMahon name. In the fund raising letter, nowhere is McMahon mentioned except in small print at the bottom where it says, Paid for by Linda McMahon for Senate 2012, but there are multiple references to just Linda. Instead of funding the campaign, shes fund raising using the phrase, 20 more donors to send professional politicians packing. Nowhere does she mention pro wrestling, or even her business experience without mentioning its in pro wrestling. Its very clear the goal is to distance herself from WWE and as much of the McMahon name as she can. In the end, shes still Linda McMahon in the campaign, to her opponents, on the ballot, and her adversaries will bring up WWE to her because thats her only track record.
Michaels is planned to referee the HHH vs. Undertaker match at Mania this year, which is slated to be the No. 2 match on the show this year. That means if Cena isnt WWE champion (or HHH isnt, and he shouldnt be), that the title match will at best be the No. 2 bout. Lots of talk of Punk vs. Jericho or someone else in the title match position. Cena did bring up the only way to make Rock vs. Cena the biggest match ever is for the title to be involved. Obviously it would not have been brought up if that wasnt the plan at the time. For business on that night, it would help the show more than adding a title match three bouts down on the show. This show isnt drawing on depth, but on the power of the main event (and to a lesser extent the No. 2 match) to be able to be promoted as the biggest match in Mania history. It would help the title to be part of that instead of having your world title at Mania as being in the No. 3 bout at best and then having to use it to headline the rest of your year. However, the circumstances are different now with it being a rebuilding process. Id sacrifice the Mania business or complaints that the match promoted as the biggest of all-time wont be for the title. Realistically where the title is wont make any significant difference. If nothing else, if Punk has the title it will make Punks match come across as bigger even if from a money drawing aspect its not like him in a title match is going to sell buys that arent already being sold for the main events and the Mania name. The other selling point is HHH and Michaels, the two guys who had come the closest to ending the streak, both already having lost twice, with the idea they may work together this year to end the streak.
Vince was pushing Del Rio to be more aggressive and more physical and not to work the sometimes softer Lucha style. Its not a secret the heel side is considered weak as Miz is lacking the believability factor and Vince thinks Del Rio has the size and toughness plus a main event character but needs to come across as projecting more of a killer in the ring. Thats why Del Rios forearms and kicks have been harder in the last week or two.
Del Rio was injured on Raw just before the finish of the trios match main event. He took a missile dropkick from Bryan and went down, was in obvious pain and holding his groin and rolled over. He did get up and do the finishing sequence, but had to be helped out of the ring after the show went off the air. He was checked out backstage and the immediate word was the injury wasnt serious but he was going to be checked out. At press time, we havent heard an update.
A couple of new names are getting whiffs on the main roster. Donny Marlow (Tivita Fifita), 33, is the son of Haku. He grew up in Hawaii away from wrestling and was a defensive end at the University of Texas at El Paso. Hes been in the developmental system for three years and is at that age where the mentality in the company is hed either better make it now or get dropped. Hes the brother of New Japans Tama Tonga. He debuted on Superstars last week as the mystery guy with Hunico.
Seth Rollins (Colby Lopez), 25, former ROH champion Tyler Black, will be on the road after Christmas. Hes been generally regarded for a long time as the best worker in FCW and has a good look, but the knock on him has always been his personality doesnt connect as well as theyd like. Its interesting this comes now, if only because of HHHs doctrine of not rushing talented guys up too fast until they are complete and ready to be something. But he may just be going on the road to gain experience working in front of big crowds before a debut on TV down the line. Ive noticed that a lot of guys progress a lot faster when they are brought on the road to work as prelim guys before the WWE crowds.
The Brodus Clay debuting next week angle seems to have been forgotten as they dont even mention his name now. Ever since he did that tweet the day before he was supposed to debut noting he was going to lay out John Morrison (this was the spot that was then changed to Miz), hes been forgotten about.
Dave Bautista ripped on the current direction in an interview with The Daily Star. He said the same stuff hes said before, but maybe gotten even stronger. Regarding the current product, he said, Its brutal. I cant watch it. I cant connect with it. I no longer know the business. I dont do PG wrestling. Love me or hate me, when I was there, everyone took one look at me and knew I could beat someone up. I dont think they look at Miz that way. Even when he was with the company, Bautista and Cena had disagreements as far as the kiddie crowd went with Cena saying business picked up (which it did from the depths of a few years ago as far as live crowds, but PPV is still falling as are ratings on a very slow decline). While a lot of people noted his best work on the mic was in his last feud with Cena, he actually got in trouble for one of his better interviews because Vince didnt like the way he was insulting the audience. He was already leaving, but it is something that left a bad taste in his mouth and is something hes brought up since then. Its sad. Its not their (the current wrestlers) fault. These days the guys have their hands tied. They are so limited in what they can do. He said the guys today would never reach the level of Austin, Rock and HHH. He also pushed that Harry Smith, who trains at his gym, is pushing to be a pro fighter. Smith is very good on the ground, but has to work on his stand-up game. Bautista said Smith is such a nice guy and that he has to work on being more aggressive.
Michaels has gotten some kind of an endorsement deal from Under Armour.
Eden Stiles, real name Brandi Reed, 26, who had been the ring announcer on Superstars since May and did some touring with Smackdown as the ring announcer, got her release on 12/20. She had asked for it a few weeks back. She was from Tampa, but after college worked for two years in Michigan as a TV news reporter and then started doing bikini modeling which is where she was discovered by John Laurinaitis and signed by FCW. She noted when she got her release that she can now publicly say shes dating Rhodes (Cody, not Dusty) which she wasnt allowed to say when she was under contract. Based on the timing, her giving notice may have led to the company reaching out to Lilian Garcia, who had left on her own right before her wedding just over two years ago.
The idea for the WWE reality shows on the network would be to air footage taped the week of the show, unlike Tough Enough where the whole season was taped and finished before the first episode airs. Ultimate Fighter has always been done like that, as have most reality shows. The reason is because when the entire season is taped and the producers know everything that happened, they can produce shows and build in storylines (including airing things out of sequence if it enhances the storyline they are trying to tell). When you tape the week of the show, you eliminate most of the ability to tell long-term stories with the show. Kind of like WWE programming.
With Karen gone, they are doing a storyline to build to Sting naming a new Vice President of the Knockouts division. At TV, Madison Rayne was doing promos acting like she knew she was going to be picked, which probably would mean shes not.
Vince Russo is now doing bullet points for James Storm instead of scripting his promos. Storm has been working his ass off on improving his interviews, which are at the top of the food chain in wrestling right now. Hes been like Josh Barnett, studying youtube videos of the best promo guys for mental tips to improve.
Linda McMahon is trying to downplay her last name and pro wrestling in her second run for the senate. I saw one of her campaign mailers looking for funds and shes pushing herself as simply Linda in big letters without the McMahon name. In the fund raising letter, nowhere is McMahon mentioned except in small print at the bottom where it says, Paid for by Linda McMahon for Senate 2012, but there are multiple references to just Linda. Instead of funding the campaign, shes fund raising using the phrase, 20 more donors to send professional politicians packing. Nowhere does she mention pro wrestling, or even her business experience without mentioning its in pro wrestling. Its very clear the goal is to distance herself from WWE and as much of the McMahon name as she can. In the end, shes still Linda McMahon in the campaign, to her opponents, on the ballot, and her adversaries will bring up WWE to her because thats her only track record.
Michaels is planned to referee the HHH vs. Undertaker match at Mania this year, which is slated to be the No. 2 match on the show this year. That means if Cena isnt WWE champion (or HHH isnt, and he shouldnt be), that the title match will at best be the No. 2 bout. Lots of talk of Punk vs. Jericho or someone else in the title match position. Cena did bring up the only way to make Rock vs. Cena the biggest match ever is for the title to be involved. Obviously it would not have been brought up if that wasnt the plan at the time. For business on that night, it would help the show more than adding a title match three bouts down on the show. This show isnt drawing on depth, but on the power of the main event (and to a lesser extent the No. 2 match) to be able to be promoted as the biggest match in Mania history. It would help the title to be part of that instead of having your world title at Mania as being in the No. 3 bout at best and then having to use it to headline the rest of your year. However, the circumstances are different now with it being a rebuilding process. Id sacrifice the Mania business or complaints that the match promoted as the biggest of all-time wont be for the title. Realistically where the title is wont make any significant difference. If nothing else, if Punk has the title it will make Punks match come across as bigger even if from a money drawing aspect its not like him in a title match is going to sell buys that arent already being sold for the main events and the Mania name. The other selling point is HHH and Michaels, the two guys who had come the closest to ending the streak, both already having lost twice, with the idea they may work together this year to end the streak.
Vince was pushing Del Rio to be more aggressive and more physical and not to work the sometimes softer Lucha style. Its not a secret the heel side is considered weak as Miz is lacking the believability factor and Vince thinks Del Rio has the size and toughness plus a main event character but needs to come across as projecting more of a killer in the ring. Thats why Del Rios forearms and kicks have been harder in the last week or two.
Del Rio was injured on Raw just before the finish of the trios match main event. He took a missile dropkick from Bryan and went down, was in obvious pain and holding his groin and rolled over. He did get up and do the finishing sequence, but had to be helped out of the ring after the show went off the air. He was checked out backstage and the immediate word was the injury wasnt serious but he was going to be checked out. At press time, we havent heard an update.
A couple of new names are getting whiffs on the main roster. Donny Marlow (Tivita Fifita), 33, is the son of Haku. He grew up in Hawaii away from wrestling and was a defensive end at the University of Texas at El Paso. Hes been in the developmental system for three years and is at that age where the mentality in the company is hed either better make it now or get dropped. Hes the brother of New Japans Tama Tonga. He debuted on Superstars last week as the mystery guy with Hunico.
Seth Rollins (Colby Lopez), 25, former ROH champion Tyler Black, will be on the road after Christmas. Hes been generally regarded for a long time as the best worker in FCW and has a good look, but the knock on him has always been his personality doesnt connect as well as theyd like. Its interesting this comes now, if only because of HHHs doctrine of not rushing talented guys up too fast until they are complete and ready to be something. But he may just be going on the road to gain experience working in front of big crowds before a debut on TV down the line. Ive noticed that a lot of guys progress a lot faster when they are brought on the road to work as prelim guys before the WWE crowds.
The Brodus Clay debuting next week angle seems to have been forgotten as they dont even mention his name now. Ever since he did that tweet the day before he was supposed to debut noting he was going to lay out John Morrison (this was the spot that was then changed to Miz), hes been forgotten about.
Dave Bautista ripped on the current direction in an interview with The Daily Star. He said the same stuff hes said before, but maybe gotten even stronger. Regarding the current product, he said, Its brutal. I cant watch it. I cant connect with it. I no longer know the business. I dont do PG wrestling. Love me or hate me, when I was there, everyone took one look at me and knew I could beat someone up. I dont think they look at Miz that way. Even when he was with the company, Bautista and Cena had disagreements as far as the kiddie crowd went with Cena saying business picked up (which it did from the depths of a few years ago as far as live crowds, but PPV is still falling as are ratings on a very slow decline). While a lot of people noted his best work on the mic was in his last feud with Cena, he actually got in trouble for one of his better interviews because Vince didnt like the way he was insulting the audience. He was already leaving, but it is something that left a bad taste in his mouth and is something hes brought up since then. Its sad. Its not their (the current wrestlers) fault. These days the guys have their hands tied. They are so limited in what they can do. He said the guys today would never reach the level of Austin, Rock and HHH. He also pushed that Harry Smith, who trains at his gym, is pushing to be a pro fighter. Smith is very good on the ground, but has to work on his stand-up game. Bautista said Smith is such a nice guy and that he has to work on being more aggressive.
Michaels has gotten some kind of an endorsement deal from Under Armour.
Eden Stiles, real name Brandi Reed, 26, who had been the ring announcer on Superstars since May and did some touring with Smackdown as the ring announcer, got her release on 12/20. She had asked for it a few weeks back. She was from Tampa, but after college worked for two years in Michigan as a TV news reporter and then started doing bikini modeling which is where she was discovered by John Laurinaitis and signed by FCW. She noted when she got her release that she can now publicly say shes dating Rhodes (Cody, not Dusty) which she wasnt allowed to say when she was under contract. Based on the timing, her giving notice may have led to the company reaching out to Lilian Garcia, who had left on her own right before her wedding just over two years ago.
The idea for the WWE reality shows on the network would be to air footage taped the week of the show, unlike Tough Enough where the whole season was taped and finished before the first episode airs. Ultimate Fighter has always been done like that, as have most reality shows. The reason is because when the entire season is taped and the producers know everything that happened, they can produce shows and build in storylines (including airing things out of sequence if it enhances the storyline they are trying to tell). When you tape the week of the show, you eliminate most of the ability to tell long-term stories with the show. Kind of like WWE programming.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Raw segment-by-segment ratings from the latest issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter:
In what universe is the Christmas week show a "non-holiday show?" In a lot of years they don't even ATTEMPT to have real regular Raws at this point and just do recap, holiday, or tribute to the troops shows instead. There's a reason why they don't normally try to do anything in December. They also had to know that they weren't going to get any viewers at this point, which is why the belts are on actual NEW people in the first place. Usually they don't even try. This year it's "well, nobody's going to be watching anyway, so let's see how these guys handle themselves in these spots."
Additionally, you had an unusually late Monday Night Football game due to the power outages at Candlestick Park.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Thanks dream!
spindashing
Banned
Been away for a bit, just wanted to stop by and express my distaste for Cody Rhodes taking all the black women away.
dream
Member
OH THE GODDAMN IRONY
Liquidsnake
Banned
Lol.
And if he wasn't, you'd step up? Sit your Urkel ass back down.
spindashing
Banned
I would hereby like to eliminate the "dashing" part of my user name due to Cody Rhodes' actions.
I'm super excited for TNA, guys.
I'm super excited for TNA, guys.
Keyser Soze
Member
Aftermath just put up "Ask The Ref #16" I always find it a pretty good listen, Jimmy Korderas seems like a great guy.
They say they are always looking for good questions, and say they get to many repeats. GAF should send something interesting their way aftermath@thescore.com
They say they are always looking for good questions, and say they get to many repeats. GAF should send something interesting their way aftermath@thescore.com
Liquidsnake
Banned
Keyser Soze
Member
I liked HHH vs Taker, but everything surrounding it last (the terrible build-up and post WM circle-jerk) was terrible. I hope they find a better way to handle it this year
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Away from what, pray tell?
That's what I was thinking...lol
Poor Brodus will never deubt now.
As for Bautista, I think he brings up some good points. I do find it kinda silly he puts HHH on the same (or similar) level as Rock and Austin though. As for whether somebody will reach the level of Rock or Austin again, that's hard to say. I'd argue Punk could've come close had they not fucked up everything coming off his title win and running away with the title. But I have my doubts if we'll see somebody reach that kind of popularity in the next few years (or longer).
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
W/ an Undertaker match and Cena Vs the Rock they have their mainstream quota all but filled, the title matches should be allowed to be low on story and just about the in-ring.
He's great on the few Review A Wai episodes I've heard him on.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Poor Brodus will never deubt now.
As for Bautista, I think he brings up some good points. I do find it kinda silly he puts HHH on the same level as Rock and Austin though. As for whether somebody will reach the level of Rock or Austin again, that's hard to say. I'd argue Punk could've come close had they not fucked up everything coming off his title win and running away with the title. But I have my doubts if we'll see somebody reach that kind of popularity in the next few years (or longer).
Clay should wait till the time is right though. King Hippo, whatever. Right now he couldn't be inserted into a meaningful feud - best pick your spot, take your time, cos you can only...re...debut...once?
I'm holding out hope for Ryback/Clay tag team crushing Air Boom out of nowhere.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
So Rock/Cena really isn't going to be the #1 main event at Mania, is it? It'll be:
1. Punk vs. Whoever, prob that fat out of shape idiot Jericho who thinks he's a rock star after his latest Fozzy album sold a whopping 2000 copies its first week, for the title
2. Rock vs. Cena
3. HHH vs. Taker
If it's like a Punk vs. Del Rio match or something that'll be a terrible follow-up to Rock vs. Cena so I'm thinking his opponent has gotta be Jericho.
If Cena gets the title and Rock vs. Cena is for the title as the #1 main event, how could they give the title to Rocky since he can't be on the road with them? Cena would have to win. So that means Rock vs. Cena has no chance of being for the title like Cena was saying earlier.
1. Punk vs. Whoever, prob that fat out of shape idiot Jericho who thinks he's a rock star after his latest Fozzy album sold a whopping 2000 copies its first week, for the title
2. Rock vs. Cena
3. HHH vs. Taker
If it's like a Punk vs. Del Rio match or something that'll be a terrible follow-up to Rock vs. Cena so I'm thinking his opponent has gotta be Jericho.
If Cena gets the title and Rock vs. Cena is for the title as the #1 main event, how could they give the title to Rocky since he can't be on the road with them? Cena would have to win. So that means Rock vs. Cena has no chance of being for the title like Cena was saying earlier.
HHH/Taker was my personal MOTY (partially biased since I saw it live). Punk/Cena was obviously great as well, but the atmosphere in the Dome during HHH/Taker was amazing.
I can certainly understand though why people hated the pre-match hype and subsequent post-match circle jerking.
I can certainly understand though why people hated the pre-match hype and subsequent post-match circle jerking.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
Trips w/Shawn vs Taker at least adds a little in question to the end of Taker's streak. How big is Trips' ego? Can he book himself going over?
My soul still wants Kane for it, retirement match.
My soul still wants Kane for it, retirement match.
British Monsoon
Member
They're going to have to pull something special out of their ass this time around, the match certainly needs more psychology and storytelling beyond "they keep kicking out of each other's, and their own, finishing moves".
Any result that doesn't end in Taker winning is out of the question, imo. I personally would like to see the streak ended one day, but certainly not by freaking Mr. H's. Ideally Taker would be able to use the streak to put over someone young and new, which wouldn't be out of the question given a proper, lengthy build, which unfortunately it seems the 'one appearance a year' Taker isn't capable of giving.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
Not only that but also the spamming and abuse of finishing moves for cheap pops because they couldn't do anything else. Also let's not forget the horrible over-selling from Taker and HHH after the match. Taker taking a half hour to get up and then falling down and acting dead. Fuck HHH and Taker.
billy beane
Banned
The ending pisses me off more because you know Triple H was going "How can we end this match with your streak intact, but make me look like a total badass, because I am a total badass? Hmm....I got it! After you BARELY pin me, you die because I kicked your ass so badly!"
Pretty much. Their match wasn't bad, but it didn't deserve all the hype and shit it got afterwards.
I wouldn't mind seeing the streak ended either, but finding somebody who could do it and not piss off everyone (and make good use of the push) would be tricky. Like if Kane ended the streak, I wouldn't be that broken up about it, since it could be manipulated to make sense (insert magical BS, etc.). Plus, he's his brother and all that jazz. Hell, it'd be better if they both retired from the match and had it end in a draw, kinda killing each other off. But if it was someone like Cena or HHH who broke the streak? The streets would run red with their blood and we'd never hear the end of it.
Thinking about it, whoever beats Taker would have to replace him as the penultimate challenge at WM. (After all, if you beat Taker at WM, that's pretty much the top of the mountain right there, or so we're led to believe.)
Of course, you could argue for similar reasons it shouldn't be broken and leave it at that.
He needs it. Young superstar in this business who just defeated the vet Kevin Nash at TLC. Certainly one of the company's best up and comers, he and Randall Keith Orton are two young men who can grow to become big stars. They deserve it!
Liquidsnake
Banned
- Status