Support NeoGAF

[monome]

Fuck Samaritan.

EVERY big publisher/developper is in the engine game now.
There is gonna a war on that front too, and powerfull hardware or not, there will be tons of improvements.

Big question for me is gameplay. With the western influence, I'm worried sound gameplay is gonna become obsolete because of all the gimmicks necessary to make gamers salivate.

For all the hate I give Nintendo lately, their franchises play perfect. I love PG games too fr the same reasons.
On the western front, only Halo satisfies me completely, every other game I love feels lacking somehow.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Its like a film trailer. It might show off a few key shots to excite people but you won't know all the story and other bits until you see the full thing. For fans, the trailer will be enough but for the average person, they might have to wait to see it to form an opinion as to whether its better or worse than another film.

Like every tech demo since the dawn of time, they just show off eye-candy or other fancy things. Even at this stage Samaritan does not look like a game but it shows off some really nice graphical effects. Also, the Unreal Engine seems to be one of those things that is constantly updated and tweaked, so who is to say Samaritan will not look even better in time?

True, but Epic did say it was representative of their expectations of next-generation graphics.

 

[Raide]

True, but Epic did say it was representative of their expectations of next-generation graphics.

I am actually fascinated to see what they do with Samaritan. Kinda hoping its an RPG etc and not just a straight shooter.

 

[Frankfurt]

I am actually fascinated to see what they do with Samaritan. Kinda hoping its an RPG etc and not just a straight shooter.

They want to ressurect Unreal and they'll keep at it with Gears. They won't make another shooter, specially after the Bulletstorm fiasco, right? RIGHT?

 

[Shtof]

They want to ressurect Unreal and they'll keep at it with Gears. They won't make another shooter, specially after the Bulletstorm fiasco, right? RIGHT?

Bulletstorm fiasco?

I thought Bulletstorm did pretty well for a new IP published by EA? And it's much better than Gears, deal with it.

 

[BoobPhysics101]

They want to ressurect Unreal and they'll keep at it with Gears. They won't make another shooter, specially after the Bulletstorm fiasco, right? RIGHT?

I think it's funny that Bulletstorm is an absolutely fantastic game and feels so fresh compared to other shooters, but Epic didn't really advertise it all that well and it almost feels like it got sent out to die.

I wish Epic take more risks with Bulletstorm-esque games. And bring back UT.

 

[Raide]

They want to ressurect Unreal and they'll keep at it with Gears. They won't make another shooter, specially after the Bulletstorm fiasco, right? RIGHT?

I am not sure there is actually any place for an arena shooter like UT. Maybe save it for next-gen and show off more of the engine, which seems more likely. They might be waiting for a CoD drop-off before talking UT. (Would kill for a new Unreal SP game though)

 

[Lovely Salsa]

The thing about Marsian video that didn't impress me was the character models. They look last gen(this gen)

 

[StevieP]

Bulletstorm fiasco?

I thought Bulletstorm did pretty well for a new IP published by EA? And it's much better than Gears, deal with it.

It didn't.

And you guys really need to stop talking Samaritan. As mrklaw has said, you may get some sort of visual approximation done with smoke and mirrors (i.e. lowered assets, resolutions, lighting, texture quality, etc etc etc - which makes it something completely different) but there really is not a single chance in hell anything other than an ultra high-end PC can do a *game* at that level. Before you even get to THAT point, producing a game with assets like that will cost you more than 3 current gen Rockstar games combined.

 

[Globox_82]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/next-g...report-6347712?tag=updates;editor;all;title;5
Team leader overseeing most recent Xbox 360 dashboard update takes over design position as work moves to next console.

 

[BurntPork]

I am actually fascinated to see what they do with Samaritan. Kinda hoping its an RPG etc and not just a straight shooter.

This is Epic we're talking about.

 

[higherARC05]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/next-g...report-6347712?tag=updates;editor;all;title;5
Team leader overseeing most recent Xbox 360 dashboard update takes over design position as work moves to next console.

Nice. Just as I wanted. A 2013 launch so there will definetly be healthy dose of great launch titles as well as a powerful system using mature 28nm gpu tech. Mmmmm delicious.

 

[higherARC05]

This is Epic we're talking about.

I do believe Fortnight will change that view about Epic. I really have high hopes of it. Being a survivor game that relies on base building with Minecraft influences and of course the great shooting mechanics that EPIC is known for.

I can really mistake this game for being a Valve title. Sure do love what EPIC is doing for the types of games they deliver now.

 

[duk]

it'll be at least 7 years before next gen comes, of course there will a noticeable difference. i bet same difference going from xbox 1 to 360. it's not like this gen we have REAL 720p games with high res textures anyways across the board. only top tier games have reached that level.

 

[StevieP]

Nice. Just as I wanted. A 2013 launch so there will definetly be healthy dose of great launch titles as well as a powerful system using mature 28nm gpu tech. Mmmmm delicious.

I'm still betting on Holiday 2012.

it'll be at least 7 years before next gen comes, of course there will a noticeable difference. i bet same difference going from xbox 1 to 360. it's not like this gen we have REAL 720p games with high res textures anyways across the board. only top tier games have reached that level.

Actually, a great deal of "top tier" games run closer to SD than they do HD.

 

[[Nintex]]

I've been looking at the GDC schedule and MS has a ton of stuff related to Windows 8 and Xbox listed:

Microsoft Developer Day: Entertainment Reimagined (Presented by Microsoft)
Monetization Strategies for Windows 8 Games (Presented by Microsoft)
Xbox LIVE Multiplayer Gaming on Windows 8 and Other Devices (Presented by Microsoft)
Building Windows Phone Games (Presented by Microsoft)
Developing a Great Metro Style Game for Windows 8 (Presented by Microsoft)
Building Cross-Device Xbox LIVE Games (Presented by Microsoft)
Xbox, Play: Harnessing the Power of Speech (Presented by Microsoft)
Kinect Human Tracking – Better, Stronger, Faster (Presented by Microsoft)
Now Appearing Live on the Web – Xbox LIVE Web Games (Presented by Microsoft)

Also Asus confirms Windows 8 for tablets will be available in 2012:
http://cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_38747.html

Oh and Rare has a new engine(thanks shiggy!):

My wish-list: Awesome senior hires to join us, a bright future for our new engine, more awesome for Rare and a happy New Year!

Ryse was moved to 'Xbox NextGen', Ruffian is on CryEngine 3, Rare has developed a new DX11 engine(that's the kind of people they're looking for, DX11 render people), PlayGround Games(Forza World), Criterion(NFS) and Codemasters(GRID 2) are developing next-gen racers and Carmack is targetting 1080p. But really folks, no new Xbox untill 2014 or 2015 trust Pachter on this, he's very reliable after all.

 

[TheOddOne]

Rare got a new engine? Now this I wanna see.

 

[ZombieFred]

Rare got a new engine? Now this I wanna see.

I know Microsoft's game studios have been sharing a lot of tech and helping each other out on a few things, especially with specific titles coming soon (Fable 4 for example, is an entirely new engine and borrows some tech off Rare and their own stuff. The Milo GDC demo is a good example on the little tricks they've added) for the future.

Good job on the update, Nintex. I do hope it's late 2012/early 2013, depending on if their studios are ready in time.

 

[1-D_FTW]

I've been looking at the GDC schedule and MS has a ton of stuff related to Windows 8 and Xbox listed:


Also Asus confirms Windows 8 for tablets will be available in 2012:
http://cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_38747.html

Oh and Rare has a new engine(thanks shiggy!):


Ryse was moved to 'Xbox NextGen', Ruffian is on CryEngine 3, Rare has developed a new DX11 engine(that's the kind of people they're looking for, DX11 render people), PlayGround Games(Forza World), Criterion(NFS) and Codemasters(GRID 2) are developing next-gen racers and Carmack is targetting 1080p. But really folks, no new Xbox untill 2014 or 2015 trust Pachter on this, he's very reliable after all.

Huh? Pachter has recently gone on record as 2014 or 15? 2012 or 2013 absolutely confirmed if true.

 

[Rolf NB]

To give you an idea of how bad things are price wise with hard discs I purchased a Spinpoint F3 1TB hard disc earlier this year for £40. My brother was in the market for the exact same hard disc and it is now £115 (from exactly the same place I bought it from). So yeah hard disc pricing has gone crazy even I was shocked at the increase.

They're recovering now. Samsung F4 2TB went from 60€ to 130€ at its peak. It's back to 100€ now. Some of the most demanded 2.5" SATA drives (WD 500GB, Samsung 1TB etc) are barely 25% more expensive now than before the flood. Prices could come down to what they were pretty soon.

I don't see any impact on 2012/2013 console launches at all.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

Ryse was moved to 'Xbox NextGen', Ruffian is on CryEngine 3, Rare has developed a new DX11 engine(that's the kind of people they're looking for, DX11 render people), PlayGround Games(Forza World), Criterion(NFS) and Codemasters(GRID 2) are developing next-gen racers and Carmack is targetting 1080p. But really folks, no new Xbox untill 2014 or 2015 trust Pachter on this, he's very reliable after all.

If Ryse is going to the nextgen Xbox, then can we assume Homefront 2 is as well? If Crytek and Criterion has them, you know EA has to be reasonably deep into development. 2012 may be a possibility.

 

[BurntPork]

I've been looking at the GDC schedule and MS has a ton of stuff related to Windows 8 and Xbox listed:


Also Asus confirms Windows 8 for tablets will be available in 2012:
http://cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_38747.html

Oh and Rare has a new engine(thanks shiggy!):


Ryse was moved to 'Xbox NextGen', Ruffian is on CryEngine 3, Rare has developed a new DX11 engine(that's the kind of people they're looking for, DX11 render people), PlayGround Games(Forza World), Criterion(NFS) and Codemasters(GRID 2) are developing next-gen racers and Carmack is targetting 1080p. But really folks, no new Xbox untill 2014 or 2015 trust Pachter on this, he's very reliable after all.

Yeah. he was spot-on about Wii HD. I'm playing Skyward Sword on it as we speak!

Though, I do agree that it won't release in 2012.

 

[subversus]

I know Microsoft's game studios have been sharing a lot of tech and helping each other out on a few things, especially with specific titles coming soon (Fable 4 for example, is an entirely new engine and borrows some tech off Rare and their own stuff. The Milo GDC demo is a good example on the little tricks they've added) for the future.

Good job on the update, Nintex. I do hope it's late 2012/early 2013, depending on if their studios are ready in time.

it's in UE3.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Haha, no.

I've had friends confuse Crysis with Halo, Just Cause 2 with Assassin's Creed.

Get out of your NeoGAF mindset and come back to the real world.

lol my wife thought God of War, Skryim, and Demon's Souls were all the same game for a hilariously long time.

 

[MDX]

Huh? Pachter has recently gone on record as 2014 or 15? 2012 or 2013 absolutely confirmed if true.

MS wishes they could wait till 2015,
they want to shoot for 2012,
but will be delayed to 2013

 

[ratcliffja]

I had this weird dream that the Xbox Loop was announced as the first MMM, massively multiplayer machine. I don't even know what that would mean.

 

[Cmd. Pishad'aç]

I had this weird dream that the Xbox Loop was announced as the first MMM, massively multiplayer machine. I don't even know what that would mean.

that would be a PC I'm sorry.

Also, Dragon Quest x on the Wii will be an MMO if I'm not mistaken.

 

[MikeHaggar]

I've been looking at the GDC schedule and MS has a ton of stuff related to Windows 8 and Xbox listed:

will there be a way to view these presentations online in some capacity (whether live or after the fact)?

 

[makingmusic476]

CES seems kinda early if that CNET article was right. It said the guy leading Xbox hardware design recently left, and (according to Develop) the new Xbox is scheduled for 2013:

www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=455755

Edit:

I mean, if it's hitting in 2013, why announce it at CES? Why not just go all out at E3 2012?

Edit 2:

Also, how much additional cost would come with adding another couple GBs of ram? I understand the idea that 2gb is probably all they *need*, but if it costs <$50 to up that to 3-4gb, and, say, Sony does that with their console, wouldn't they then have a significant advantage over MS in terms of OS potential and third party development?

You'd think they'd both be pushing for the upper limit just so they aren't outdone by each other.

Though it took Epic to convince MS to go with 512 mb of ram in the 360...

 

[specialguy]

I've been looking at the GDC schedule and MS has a ton of stuff related to Windows 8 and Xbox listed:


Also Asus confirms Windows 8 for tablets will be available in 2012:
http://cens.com/cens/html/en/news/news_inner_38747.html

Oh and Rare has a new engine(thanks shiggy!):


Ryse was moved to 'Xbox NextGen', Ruffian is on CryEngine 3, Rare has developed a new DX11 engine(that's the kind of people they're looking for, DX11 render people), PlayGround Games(Forza World), Criterion(NFS) and Codemasters(GRID 2) are developing next-gen racers and Carmack is targetting 1080p. But really folks, no new Xbox untill 2014 or 2015 trust Pachter on this, he's very reliable after all.

If Ryse is going to the nextgen Xbox, then can we assume Homefront 2 is as well? If Crytek and Criterion has them, you know EA has to be reasonably deep into development. 2012 may be a possibility.

Umm, see this is the nonsense that irks me, it's now accepted fact that Ryse is one next gen, because "Xbox next gen" was written on some chicks's resume that worked there like 2 months and no longer works there. I mean if you remember at the time the credible consensus was that Ryse was NOT next gen, she just tried to spice up her resume combined with her ignorance of the term next gen. A guy with contacts at crytek from another board also said that Ryse isn't next gen.

MS wishes they could wait till 2015,
they want to shoot for 2012,
but will be delayed to 2013

My latest belief is no earlier than 2013, but I increasingly think they ARE possibly shooting for 2013. I dont think there will be a delay, Microsoft doesn't delay consoles, they rushed the 360 on incredibly tight timelines (which in fact arguably led to RROD).

For the millionth time I certainly hope so, new consoles are needed so badly and are so exciting! Heck my PC gaming brother wants new consoles so his PC graphics will improve LOL.

 

[[Nintex]]

WeArePlayground Playground Games
Have a great Christmas, Twitter! See you right back here in January for what is going to be a VERY EXCITING 2012. Playground OUT xxx

Seems like PlayGround is excited for 2012 at least.

Oh and Rare moved on to a new engine this late in the generation because?

I can't think of any other reason but next-gen development.

Also, MS is going to integrate the Windows 8 kernel into tablets, smartphones, PC's... but leaves out Xbox?
They're going to put Xbox's 'selling point', Kinect(a better version even) on TV's, PC's and more in the future, they're going to launch a Windows 8 Store with all sorts of apps and stuff that would completely bomb XBLA in its current form. In other words, some of you are saying that they're going to make and integrate 'everything they do' except Xbox(one of their few succesful consumer devices) better?

 

[charlequin]

Ryse was moved to 'Xbox NextGen',

The game's not coming out next year. Even if this is true (and the evidence is pretty sketchtastic so far) it'll be a 2013 title anyway and therefore targeted as a launch-window title for the next system. This doesn't support the idea of a 2012 launch in any way.

The CES talks you list also don't really support the idea of a rapidly-impending launch; one's about the already-announced Windows 8/XBL integration and the other Xbox-related talks are all discussing features that are already on the 360.

 

[Nirolak]

Seems like PlayGround is excited for 2012 at least.

This one seems to very specifically be a current gen title though.

Senior Rendering Engineer

Working at senior level in a team of rendering engineers, you will be responsible for implementation of cutting edge rendering techniques. Engineers with in-depth knowledge of current-gen consoles are ideal for this role, as you will innovate on this technology to produce a visually stunning title. You must be able to work closely with art teams to realise their vision. You are highly motivated and approachable, with a strong desire to push the boundaries of technology.

You should have:

-Experience of working on published titles on current-gen consoles
-Strong C++ and software architecture skills
-Detailed knowledge of rendering techniques and performance on current-gen consoles
-Excellent communication skills
-A passion for games

Desirable skills:

-Experience of mentoring and coaching junior engineers

This is an opportunity to join a highly experienced team at an early stage of development and define the processes and technology direction for the company. It provides exciting new challenges for established developers looking to further their career.

Source: http://www.playground-games.com/job_info.php?id=10

They're looking for people who can milk out the remaining power from the current generation with novel techniques.

Oh and Rare moved on to a new engine this late in the generation because?

I can't think of any other reason but next-gen development.

Being able to take their work over to the next generation more easily. Basically the same reason you see EA switching to Frostbite 2 already and Lionhead transitioning to new technology.

I agree with your base concept, that these are moves being made in preparation for imminent next-generation consoles, but I still don't see much evidence pointing to 2012 over 2013.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

I agree with your base concept, that these are moves being made in preparation for imminent next-generation consoles, but I still don't see much evidence pointing to 2012 over 2013.

Well, he seems to have backed down a little, now he's ridiculing the idea of the next Xbox launching in 2014 or 2015.

 

[bgassassin]

Edit 2:

Also, how much additional cost would come with adding another couple GBs of ram? I understand the idea that 2gb is probably all they *need*, but if it costs <$50 to up that to 3-4gb, and, say, Sony does that with their console, wouldn't they then have a significant advantage over MS in terms of OS potential and third party development?

The main issue right now would be the available memory density. Going beyond 2GB isn't really cost effective as of today.

 

[[Nintex]]

Well, he seems to have backed down a little, now he's ridiculing the idea of the next Xbox launching in 2014 or 2015.

That's because I've seen some good arguments that go beyond: "No it's too early I don't want to buy a new system yet!" I'm still in the fall 2012 camp however.

 

[itsgreen]

The main issue right now would be the available memory density. Going beyond 2GB isn't really cost effective as of today.

It's a very complex issue as it needs to be cost effective over the life span of the console... and billion other things factor in as more memory will make the console more competitive, but also what they think the competition will do... it has it ups and downs, I am on the give me more memory side of things...

But MS is not a stupid company in general... If their bottom line says do it, they'll do it if it doesn't they won't. Some really complex analyses are needed to give a definitive answer about whats best...

Also the whole system needs to be in balance...

 

[bgassassin]

It's a very complex issue as it needs to be cost effective over the life span of the console... and billion other things factor in as more memory will make the console more competitive, but also what they think the competition will do... it has it ups and downs, I am on the give me more memory side of things...

But MS is not a stupid company in general... If their bottom line says do it, they'll do it if it doesn't they won't. Some really complex analyses are needed to give a definitive answer about whats best...

It's not that complex. This isn't like the doubling we saw with Xbox 360. Current GDDR5 densities are a max of 2Gbit. It would take eight chips to reach 2GB which isn't an issue. To reach 4GB at current densities would take 16. You're facing the purchasing of that amount of chips, creating a bus to handle that many chips, and designing the motherboard to accommodate that many chips. Now they could invest the money into making larger densities. That's way more plausible. All I'm saying is that based on what's currently availability, going over 2GB is not cost effective.

 

[Proelite]

We could see a mixed memory approach this time around. 4GB of DDR3-2133, and 1-2 GB of unified GDDR5. Max modules needed is 12, which is what the ps3 had. Jobs that needs the faster ram can use the GDDR5, and the other tasks can be delegated to the DDR3 pool. (Not sure if the previous usage approach would be efficient.) You also can market the console as having ridiculous amounts of ram.

 

[RaijinFY]

It's obvious that a next-gen xbox won't be launched in 2012.

 

[bgassassin]

We could see a mixed memory approach this time around. 4GB of DDR3-2133, and 1-2 GB of unified GDDR5. Max modules needed is 12, which is what the ps3 had. Jobs that needs the faster ram can use the GDDR5, and the other tasks can be delegated to the DDR3 pool. (Not sure if the previous usage approach would be efficient.) You also can market the console as having ridiculous amounts of ram.

From what I remember PS3 had eight chips and four chips (GDDR3) were on an MCM with the GPU.

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

This one seems to very specifically be a current gen title though.

They're looking for people who can milk out the remaining power from the current generation with novel techniques.

well, but how could you hire someone with a " next generation console experience " if such hardware is not yet know (or at least it's not yet public ) ?

it's obvious you are searching for someone well skilled on current generation middleware and development and then you need to train the new guy

 

[clashfan]

It's obvious that a next-gen xbox won't be launched in 2012.

Sounds like the ces2012 announcement rumor is dead. MS themselves said don't expect major news at ces2012...

 

[royalan]

Sounds like the ces2012 announcement rumor is dead. MS themselves said don't expect major news at ces2012...

Which is exactly what they would say...

I'm holding out hope for 2012, too...;_;

 

[Nirolak]

well, but how could you hire someone with a " next generation console experience " if such hardware is not yet know (or at least it's not yet public ) ?

it's obvious you are searching for someone well skilled on current generation middleware and development and then you need to train the new guy

You would generally be looking for people with DirectX 11 hardware experience, but even ignoring this, detailed knowledge of the performance levels of current generation consoles would be fairly irrelevant for people creating a game solely for next generation consoles.

 

[RyanReedyMusic]

Gimme something that makes the hardcore happy and then Ill be there at launch. But since M$ has forgot about us hardcore. I dont expect too much.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

How did M uh $
forget about hardcore?

(everytime I see hardcore on GAF I think of this...)

 

[Zeal]

My gut is telling me Samaritan is probably some type of actual game at this point, and the next Xbox should be able to pull off something at least very close to it.

 

[RyanReedyMusic]

My gut is telling me Samaritan is probably some type of actual game at this point, and the next Xbox should be able to pull off something at least very close to it.

Id definitely agree to this one. Just curious what everyone thinks the game style is. 3rd person or FPS?

 

[Xater]

My gut is telling me Samaritan is probably some type of actual game at this point, and the next Xbox should be able to pull off something at least very close to it.

Usually all the Epic tech demoes included something from their next game. The early Unreal Engine 3 ones included the Brumak and the Locust drones.