Technosteve
Banned
Redux is a self felliating marathon of who gives a shit. First time where the directors cut ruins the original.
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Redux is a self felliating marathon of who gives a shit. First time where the directors cut ruins the original.
The problem with this Theatrical > Redux AN business is that for the first act Redux is the superior film. It adds a whole lot of smaller details that build up the atmosphere wonderfully. It also expands on a scene towards the end of the second act in a positive way.
But the second half is mostly better edited in the theatrical, yes.
It's infuriating, because I really feel like the film needs a third cut. Neither got it quite right.
As it stands, I think people need to watch both, going theatrical then redux. Theatrical convinces you it is a great film, then redux expands in areas to further your insight. Watch it the other way around and you probably only ever watch one version as you cannot be fucked watching the other.
The French plantation scene is also regretful because intellectually it adds a lot to the film. It just doesn't work on the immediate level at all, which prevents the intellectual doing its job. It's a great study to sink your teeth into if you're writing a dissertation, but it's poor if you're just looking to watch, digest and absorb one of the most powerful films ever made.
But the second half is mostly better edited in the theatrical, yes.
It's infuriating, because I really feel like the film needs a third cut. Neither got it quite right.
As it stands, I think people need to watch both, going theatrical then redux. Theatrical convinces you it is a great film, then redux expands in areas to further your insight. Watch it the other way around and you probably only ever watch one version as you cannot be fucked watching the other.
The French plantation scene is also regretful because intellectually it adds a lot to the film. It just doesn't work on the immediate level at all, which prevents the intellectual doing its job. It's a great study to sink your teeth into if you're writing a dissertation, but it's poor if you're just looking to watch, digest and absorb one of the most powerful films ever made.
SilentProtagonist
Member
One thing I loved about Aliens is the helmet-cam parts, which were really tense and actually served as a pre-"found-footage" kind of sequence for that first reveal/ass kicking.
Hell, I would even add the extended inquest scene. And Hudson going down the list of weaponry. Man, the DC is badass.
Also, it looks like I found something Jett wrote earlier...:jnc
http://www.madmind.de/2010/04/25/why-the-directors-cut-of-aliens-sucks/
Instigator
Banned
What happens in the novelization? Obviously he survives, but how?
If memory serves correct... Bishop encounters an alien while he's crawling to the radar dish. The alien leaves him alone, and Bishop surmises that this is due to the fact that he isn't organic. He thinks the alien registered him as a machine, and therefore not a threat.
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According to IMDB it was in the final draft, but not filmed.
"Bishop encountering an alien while crawling along the tunnel (this scene also appeared in the final script but neither in the theatrical release nor in the Special Edition)"
Instigator
Banned
Or not a meal?
The English Conquistador
Member
Just finished watching Aliens in it's entirety for the first time in years, same with Alien, which I watched yesterday.
Aliens >>>> Alien is all I can say.
Aliens >>>> Alien is all I can say.
Aye, not useful as either host or food. Would have been a good scene.
Watched Alien 4 today. Alien 4 should not exist. It's not that it doesn't live up to the other films, it's that it's flat-out awful. At least it was often funny-bad (spaceship basketball).
Ripley being a mother is kind of the key to the entire series of films, to me. I honestly can't see not getting that idea at least slightly.
She isn't a cunt in Alien, she's rational and forceful. The entire argument of (the first two) films is that mothers are the strongest members of society.
You could argue that that is simply one reading of the film, but Newt being Ripley's surrogate child is all but spoken.
huh. what. what.
Ripley being a mother is kind of the key to the entire series of films, to me. I honestly can't see not getting that idea at least slightly.
She isn't a cunt in Alien, she's rational and forceful. The entire argument of (the first two) films is that mothers are the strongest members of society.
You could argue that that is simply one reading of the film, but Newt being Ripley's surrogate child is all but spoken.
Avatar's DC really improves the film, IMO.
You're projecting Aliens' ideas into Alien. There's nothing in Alien that indicates that Ripley is a mother. The only mother stuff in there is the name of their homebase/mothership.
And personally I agree with VistaNorrez saying that Newt literally being Ripley's surrogate daughter is contrived. I don't like it.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Ripley was actually painted as the thematic virgin of Alien.
Also, I finally caved and ordered the blu Anthology from Amazon UK. The price of buying Alien and Aliens individually ended up costing more when I checked them out on Boxing Day yesterday.
Also, I finally caved and ordered the blu Anthology from Amazon UK. The price of buying Alien and Aliens individually ended up costing more when I checked them out on Boxing Day yesterday.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, there was no mother business in Alien.
Edit: except the computer system. Hardly a thematic consistency, though.
It's a classy box to have, and it's good to also own ^3 and Resurrection in the best quality possible just as a gesture. Even if you're never going to sit down with the intent of enjoying them like the first two.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
I never enjoy Alien 3 or Ressurection. But at least with the box there will be that extra disc of extras and docos.
Sculli, do not like the Assembly Cut of Alien 3?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Nope. Its just a very nothing movie to me. A fart in the wind where I spend the entirety of its runtime thinking about the potential of the film.
Sculli has too big of a hard on for Cameron's boring characters to like anything that doesn't feature them.
To each their own Sculli. I never liked Alien 3, but for some reason I became fascinated with the whole story behind the making of A3, so much that I ended up teaching a class about A3. I decided to give the film another shot when the Assembly Cut came out, and actually liked that film more. It's still not a great film, but it's an interesting, broken film. It holds a special place in my heart.
I refuse to acknowledge the steaming pile that is Resurrection.
I refuse to acknowledge the steaming pile that is Resurrection.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
You got me, bro. I secretly hate Alien for the same reason. Ian Holm should have been replaced by Paxton.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
It is a very interesting film in that its narrative missteps are understandable when looking at it on paper, but when it comes to actually watching the film it is hugely flawed. Trying to create the tension by emulating the formula of the first was its' biggest foible, in that the lone Alien had already been stripped of its enigmatic qualities by the previous films. So going back to one Alien that we never see isn't as scary, because the audience already understands the threat lurking in the shadows.
The real threat of that movie should have been the rapists. That was a very interesting thematic element to add and one that fits in perfectly with the previous films' motifs. Yet they robbed that narrative element of its potential by killing Newt and Hicks. Where they could have had this makeshift family complete with the interesting dichotomy of strength shared between Ripley and Hicks trying to navigate a different kind of forceful terrain that would not only seek to breach both Ripley and Newt - but seek to emasculate Hicks and in doing so threaten to tear the family unit apart. Instead they needlessly killed them and went with what I feel is a very hackneyed story that I can't bear to sit through.
Nappuccino
Member
Colony, Sentry Guns and, to some extent, the daughter stuff really brings the movie down.
Worth seeing once... maybe... and then never watch again
Anton Sugar
Member
The irreverent demise of Newt and Hicks...all downhill from there.
The Librarian
Banned
I remember seeing the third movie for the first time and I almost (almost!) turned it off within the first thirty seconds.
And Bishop! Don't forget he died too!
This is what happens when the studios interfere
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Shit characters. Glad they're dead, along with Cameron's lame family space adventure dream.
To be fair, Alien 3 was released six years after Aliens, there was no way they'd be able to bring Newt back without recasting the part (and it's obvious the quick shots of Newt in the intro aren't the original actress), which probably would have made some people just as mad.
While we're talking about Special Editions, I just watched the Alien 3 SE for the first time a few nights ago. I liked the additions to the scenes at the very end, but was very surprised that it jettisoned
the alien bursting from Ripley as she fell
Also, when do we hear the egg open at the end of Aliens? I've never noticed that.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
First I've heard of it in my countless viewings.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Not really. If you were paying attention in Aliens, you would know that the queen is a bitch.
You could argue that the Queen is smarter than the drones and could recognize that Bishop is a threat.
Well done.
i love alien. i have fun watching aliens. i ... kinda enjoy alien 3 (as a return to the first film in some ways even though it was unnecessary).
but alien 4 is more than just bad. it's annoying. crazy-ass wacky camera angles because the director is a crazy person. bad whedon dialogue happening in your face all the time.
and generally, the xenomorphs escaping doesn't feel interesting or like they're such a huge threat. there are only what, seven of them? far less than those in aliens to be a fun action movie, but way too many to be a thriller like alien and alien 3. it's just this thing of getting to the escape pod with a bunch of xenomorph food before the movie ends or else. and that's without going into the really stupid dumb shit that happens.
because queen takes bishop
lol
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
That is what the actual scene is called. I'm pretty sure it is the reason Bishop has that name.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Yeah
I actually liked Newt and Hicks. Also, Bishop was awesome. I think like 99% of the reason he's awesome is because Henrickson plays him. Perhaps I'm a sucker for the family-esque dynamic they were shooting for. Plus Weaver and Biehn were pretty likable together. That was like proto-Isaac/Ellie.
Alien 3 never sat right with me because it felt like it was bleak for the sake of being bleak and dumping shit all over Ripley... just cause. I don't mind a bleak ending, but the entire thing is just depressing. And Bald-Weaver is just terrible.
Alien 4 is just... weird and vaguely sensical at best.
SpaceBridge
Member
I though I read years back that William Gibson had actually written the first draft of A3's script. Is this true?
Fuck no. The shitty family act needed to die.
Same shit happened in Resurrection with the girl android, can't even remember her name.
1 had a very realistic feeling to it. Aliens cartooned the universe up. Three was a kick in the nads to that, and clearly reached for the same roots Alien did, but failed. Still ended up coming across very forced.
Nappuccino
Member
I believe he wrote at least one draft of it somewhere along the line.
immortal-joe
Member
I couldn't think of the actor nor character portrayed and didn't even think it was worth the google search.
That's right. Alien Resurrection not even worth a google search.
It may seem otherwise in here since this is a Ridley Scott thread, but Alien would not win in a landslide over Aliens if you did a general movie-watchers poll. The last time I saw such a poll, the vote was fairly even.
The votes of general movie-watchers are not a good way to judge anything.
Which one? There were like three different versions.
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