HocusPocus
Member
Nothing that sony does lately seems to be smart with their $$$. When was the last good news story with Sony and their profitability?
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Sony in big trouble with PS Vita, Portable market in perm decline, rotting - Forbes
- Thread starter marc^o^
- Start date
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
"Forbes" isn't like a first name of some blogger. You know that, right?
Kermit The Frog
Banned
I have an Xperia Play, awful, awful handheld, be very thankful Sony went with the Vita.
- What about them? They didn't make the same mistake Nintendo did releasing every game for 40 bucks at launch.
- We basically knew this since E3
- Ok, no doubt they should be less expensive
- How many accounts did you expect to have on one system? It's a handheld. Unless you're referring to changing accounts which is another matter.
I dont know if Sony really could afford to cut the price and start taking a big hit. They went for break even margins for a reason.
PSP for all its failings did make Sony money and pretty decent money. Vita coming out and then them being forced to take large losses would be a disaster
PSP for all its failings did make Sony money and pretty decent money. Vita coming out and then them being forced to take large losses would be a disaster
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
we're still complaining about the battery life? I'm hitting close to 5 hours of play. FIVE HOURS.
At what point does battery life become acceptable?
re: Price cut - to well below 20,000 yen? Why - because Nintendo could take an overpriced handheld down to 15,000? Seriously, i joked back in the day that "Poor 3DS sales spell doom for Sony" but it -really- is working out that way. People expect a repeat, so aren't planning to buy the Vita at launch, and analysts expect Sony to slash their own throats and take a bath in the blood -after two weeks- ?!?
People going are losing the plot.
BoilersFan23
Member
WTF, why do you and others consider Vita games expensive? Yes Uncharted may be $50, but all other games are priced EXACTLY the same as 3DS games (which is a less powerful device) or even less. SCEA is pricing most games at $30, some are $40. PSP games were not even $30 at launch, mostly $40 and $50. Many of its games are cheaper than Wii games for an example, and isn't Vita the more powerful device too?
I am getting a bit tired of people asking for a price drop on the Vita. Keep in mind that Sony is taking a loss already on every Vita sold (unlike Nintendo with the 3DS). They don't want another PS3 situation again where they are losing lots of money on hardware. Nintendo also has much more cash flow to deal with cutting the price. For what you get with the Vita, $250 is not bad because it's a more powerful device with more features than the 3DS. Yes a $200 pricetag would be the best, but I understand it will be a year until they can price it that.
As for the Japanese sale, who really expected it to sell well when its most appealing game to Japan (Hot Shots Golf 6) has been declining in sales and never really sold much on PSP? Dynasty Warriors games never sold well on PSP (outside of Strikeforce), Ridge Racer has been on the sharp decline sales wise, some games are very western appeal (like Uncharted: GA), etc. I expect a small pump when Tales comes to Vita, but when Gundam games and other more appealing franchises to Japan comes to Vita is when we'll see it sell better. Remember, PS3 started off extremely slow in Japan and sold much better over time.
While I agree that memory card prices aren't the cheapest, there's no way they are going to go with a universal memory format again because they are not seeing any profit returns when people buy third party (I no longer expect PS4 to use any SATA 2.5" HDD). If people want to buy larger storage, Sony sees none of the money to help soften their loses. While I wish the Vita would be more open, I understand why they had to lock it down due since PSP was heavily abused with piracy and other things. Sony wants to keep piracy low not just for themselves, but to make third party publishers/developers happy (one reason many dropped PSP).
I seriously don't know why battery life keeps coming up. PSP had pretty poor battery life and Vita seems to be doing better. When you have a powerful device, battery life won't be the longest unless we pay big for a larger one.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
I think there's a tendency to conflate the opinions of the hardcore gamer, that this machine is a bargain considering the technology it offers and that iOS gaming will never offer the kind of experiences "real" gamers crave, with that of the market at large.
SirPenguin
Member
It would be a lot easier to ignore this article if it wasn't for the fact that the 3DS happened. But it did. Nintendo, the king of profit and undisputed handheld leader 20 years running, was scared into a massive price drop less than a year in.
That cannot be ignored. The landscape has changed, at least when it comes to price
That cannot be ignored. The landscape has changed, at least when it comes to price
The hardware pricing is fine on its own, its just that people don't even really know what the phones cost due to contracts. The game and accessory pricing will be the bigger problem. And God help them if it gets cracked as badly as PSP. The software sales in the West will evaporate.
BruiserBear
Banned
The level of denial on the first page of this thread is amazing. I've thought for quite some time the Vita was doomed. The market for these types of devices is changing very quickly. A $250 PSP that requires an expensive memory card is going to be nearly DOA in any country right now. If Japan isn't going well the rest of the world is only going to be worse. Probably much worse.
I look forward to big price cuts, like the 3DS, and then I'll consider a purchase. Even that might not convince me though. I really have no need for such a device between my home consoles, iPhone, iPad, and 3DS.
I look forward to big price cuts, like the 3DS, and then I'll consider a purchase. Even that might not convince me though. I really have no need for such a device between my home consoles, iPhone, iPad, and 3DS.
MightyHedgehog
Member
At that price, it's fantasy to believe that it will set the current portable gaming world on fire, of course. It's certainly too early to say it's DOA, but Sony severely miscalculated the value of dedicated gaming hardware in an increasingly competitive all-in-one portable market during a worldwide recession. This thing needed to be cheaper out of the gate or have full cell phone functionality to work at the given price (because you could then get in the door far more easily via long-term contracts that subsidize the initial device price to almost nothing for the consumer). If 3DS could not sell for very long at its starting price, what makes anyone believe that Sony can do better with Vita or, at least, avoid having to drop the price to stimulate interest and save the platform from dying an early death? And then there's the insane pricing for portable game software in 2011 and 2012, but I feel the same is true for 3DS' structure. Nothing but big (mostly first party) games will survive at those price points in a market quickly conditioned for sub-$10 range for high quality releases.
Sony and Ninty just aren't reacting to the competition well and have made decisions that, instead, seek to avoid the inevitable head-on collision with Android and iOS platforms but, the truth is that they already entered the ring with them the moment these platforms were announced. Given the speed of technology advancement and adoption rate of the non-dedicated gaming portables, I think Vita will likely fall well short of the current numbers shipped and sold for PSP. Enthusiast gamers are pretty much the only ones really looking forward to this platform until the price comes way down and bigger games appear, but Sony has to directly contend with Ninty and a rejuvenated 3DS at significant price advantage. Right now, it's looking more like that portable console mistake that PSP was as far as focus rather than a credible alternative to what's actually gaining marketshare in the mobile space. It might have been far better to have punched up Xperia Play instead of creating two lines that divert attention and resources for no overall benefit to Sony.
PSP did good
Exactly, which is why I pay no mind to these threads on GAF. I just speak my piece and move on my way.
Version 3.0
Member
That makes perfect sense. It does. I hate portables and yet I enjoy gaming on my phone.
But you're forgetting a few things. First and foremost being that people don't make sense. Secondly, the overlap in use of these devices is not 100% - it's possible or even desirable to own both. How many people who already own smartphones do you think bought a portable this year? Do you really think it's zero?
Yes we're all in denial because we'd rather give a device more than 2 weeks before considering it a flop
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
I'm guessing they can afford to do it in a year or so due to off-the-shelf parts. They were a bit smart with the design this time, so it shouldn't be a big issue.
SouthernDragon
Member
This is a Forbes article.
L FUCKIN' O L
L FUCKIN' O L
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Agreed. Thankfully, consumers are in agreement. Android and iPhone revenues are in a freefall as we speak:
There's no accounting for taste.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Mainstream media/forum pundits on video games and the passing of 6 month's time:
"3DS facing plunging sales, will Nintendo leave the handheld market?"
"Vita facing plunging sales, will Sony leave the handheld market?"
Flip flop back and forth every 6 months and voila.
I agree to this. Budget targets to be crucial on these new bigger hardwares.
"
"Vita facing plunging sales, will Sony leave the handheld market?"
Flip flop back and forth every 6 months and voila.
duk said:
I agree to this. Budget targets to be crucial on these new bigger hardwares.
BruiserBear
Banned
Not really. Eventually it sold big numbers, but only as price drops made it much cheaper, and again, that all happened before smartphones and iPads changed the portable landscape.
Uno Venova
Banned
You can tell who isn't actually paying attention to video game prices of the handhelds itt.
Nintendo is doomed, Sony is doomed, we are all doomed. The industry will collapse, hell the entire entertainment industry is pretty much dead, our personal lived will eventually follow suit, and our houses will burn.
It's been fun guys, but everything is doomed if it's not Apple
.
It's been fun guys, but everything is doomed if it's not Apple
.Phoenician_Viking
Banned
I know that, but for an economic magazine they were wrong a lot of times.
I don't think it's all that big of a deal. Games are entertainment products and not dictated solely by pricing (especially one that is flexible), but more about its entertainment value. If there are a ton of AR fighting games on other platforms of similar quality for significantly less price, then sure you'd have to worry about whether the game is being limited to only people who have a Vita to play such games on and whether Sony promoting that as part of its launch lineup has any use. But typically for genres that are not "the hotness of the day", you hardly ever find such a scenario. It's more important for Sony at this stage to find a variety of games that can be advertised as "only available on Vita", because it is that strategy that drives adoption of a proprietary games system.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Perception is a keyword now
You see how many kids rock iPhones and want iPads, I mean now there are kids that are 10 years old getting their hands on such items
Yes Nintendo is the bread and butter on the dedicated gaming handheld market
Sony is an afterthought, it was good try, gained market-share to compete, but no way will over take/dethrone the top dog ever
As much as gamers on GAF go Eww... smart phone games, shitty flash knock-offs, I would never play such things. Well you know what? great, good on you, you have other choice readily available to you to get your gaming on
Remember how Energizer used to boast about the top 20 toys kids wanted, and most were always battery operated and the company was always showing it off
Now go so the list, most don't need any sort, and you see the shift that took place
GAF needs to realize VITA + 3DS for us gamers who post here, we have a different outlook than the regular/normal people
Not many are going to go out of there way in this economy to drop $250 for a handheld, + $20-$40 for a card, then $30-$50 for a game, close to $300+
The article is not stating Kindle Fire = iPad = iPhone = 3DS = Vita
It's stating that the price wars are going to have an effect on products release, and future products coming
It's perception of what one person looks @, and sees if it's worth it
If you're a true gamer, post on GAF, have been following the VITA info, and are ready to spend for it, great, good purchase, you were vested in this product
You're not likely going to see people in droves line up unless, the VITA does something magical, that no other machine on the market can do, and it doesn't do anything extraordinary from what I have seen
You saw how many people went apeshit over the HP TouchPad firesale, getting a tablet for $99-$149, how people were like well, watch the iPad drop in price to match it.... lol
Nintendo saw the writing on the wall, and course corrected itself, by lowering the price to $169.99, if it had done so from the beginning, it would've been the Wii handheld version right now making a killing
Sony is taking a gamble, lets see if it pays off, if it does, they had good luck and everything was running smoothly, if the other way, Sony Am DOOMED meme shall be born anew with aVengeance... NO!... Revengeance
(It also doesn't help Sony isn't a great communicator to the masses by commercializing their products)
You see how many kids rock iPhones and want iPads, I mean now there are kids that are 10 years old getting their hands on such items
Yes Nintendo is the bread and butter on the dedicated gaming handheld market
Sony is an afterthought, it was good try, gained market-share to compete, but no way will over take/dethrone the top dog ever
As much as gamers on GAF go Eww... smart phone games, shitty flash knock-offs, I would never play such things. Well you know what? great, good on you, you have other choice readily available to you to get your gaming on
Remember how Energizer used to boast about the top 20 toys kids wanted, and most were always battery operated and the company was always showing it off
Now go so the list, most don't need any sort, and you see the shift that took place
GAF needs to realize VITA + 3DS for us gamers who post here, we have a different outlook than the regular/normal people
Not many are going to go out of there way in this economy to drop $250 for a handheld, + $20-$40 for a card, then $30-$50 for a game, close to $300+
The article is not stating Kindle Fire = iPad = iPhone = 3DS = Vita
It's stating that the price wars are going to have an effect on products release, and future products coming
It's perception of what one person looks @, and sees if it's worth it
If you're a true gamer, post on GAF, have been following the VITA info, and are ready to spend for it, great, good purchase, you were vested in this product
You're not likely going to see people in droves line up unless, the VITA does something magical, that no other machine on the market can do, and it doesn't do anything extraordinary from what I have seen
You saw how many people went apeshit over the HP TouchPad firesale, getting a tablet for $99-$149, how people were like well, watch the iPad drop in price to match it.... lol
Nintendo saw the writing on the wall, and course corrected itself, by lowering the price to $169.99, if it had done so from the beginning, it would've been the Wii handheld version right now making a killing
Sony is taking a gamble, lets see if it pays off, if it does, they had good luck and everything was running smoothly, if the other way, Sony Am DOOMED meme shall be born anew with a
(It also doesn't help Sony isn't a great communicator to the masses by commercializing their products)
Games should be priced according to their production values and not so much as what platform they're on. Its bad enough that every game that comes out on a console is worth $60 according to retailers.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I'm not a Forbes reader, but are you being entirely fair here? Are they wrong a disproportionate amount of times compared to other publications that specialize and financial analysis? Because I assume being wrong comes with the turf. Predicting market trends isn't easy.
It was profitable wasn't it?
I know that Forbes guy, lil punk 14 year old who keeps riding their bike on my lawn, gonna go over to his house and kick his ass
Why is this such a problem? Vita games are nearing (and some actually even exceeding) PS3 games in what they offer, yet some think they should be priced at least 30 dollars less than PS3 games. Why? Just because they are handheld games?
Besides, handheld games have been 40$ forever, yet Sony is actually offering quite many games for 30$, a few for 40$ and ONE for 50$.
Sure, I think 50-60 for any game is crazy. It should be 30 tops.
Yes. Forbes began as a mommy blog a few years back to get free purses and strollers and stuff.
GTP_Daverytimes
Member
BoilersFan23
Member
Why are we still considering handheld games to be $50? Only ONE Vita game is priced at $50 (Uncharted) and only one 3DS game (Resident Evil: Revelations) is priced at $50 at the moment. I really don't expect that to be the norm at all. Keep in mind that both games will likely drop price.
Exactly. Games are ranging from $30 to $50 (with only one game being $50). The games I want most are only $30 which is very reasonable IMO. Battery life seems to be better than PSP (which no one seems to be bringing up which wasn't good) and on par with 3DS.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I don't know, work in a few more 'bullshits' and I might be on board with your point.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Are you saying that people currently or forever opposed to buying something cannot have reasonable opinions on it? After all, the only way this platform will succeed is to win over those who aren't interested in it now.
sublimit
Banned
I think the console did fairly well if you consider the fact that it basically had no major high-profile launch titles to appeal to Japanese gamers.When you are Sony and you see that your Japanese customers most awaited launch game is Uncharted,well you are probably doing something wrong...And i'm not saying that Uncharted is a bad game,it's just that in Japan it doesn't have the brand name power it has in the west.Vita's sales so far say that people are interested in the console itself,but they need more big titles to appeal to their specific (Japanese) tastes.
Ideally (besides their current line-up) Sony should have also released Gravity Rush as a launch title,and they should have also secured exclusive deals for at least another two launch games from reknown third party studios such as Level 5 and Platinum Games with one of them being an RPG.
In the long term i think Vita will do fine,especially when it starts getting high profile games like Final Fantasy,Kingdom Hearts,Monster Hunter,MGS and others.
Ideally (besides their current line-up) Sony should have also released Gravity Rush as a launch title,and they should have also secured exclusive deals for at least another two launch games from reknown third party studios such as Level 5 and Platinum Games with one of them being an RPG.
In the long term i think Vita will do fine,especially when it starts getting high profile games like Final Fantasy,Kingdom Hearts,Monster Hunter,MGS and others.
This isn't the case. 5 hours is low to some people.
As for game prices, it is a fact that Game prices to alot of people have climbed slowly over time. For them seeing even one first party game launch at 50$ is very worrisome as it is usually first party who try the longest to keep the MSRP for their titles as low as possible.
Not that this means every game in the future will launch high, or hell even alot but there is a reason people worry about game prices.
As it is alot of people are worried about 3DS when it is only one game and that is coming from a 3rd party.
Which is why putting your balls on the line, with these types of articles is completely fucktarded.
I'm sorry but smartphone gaming is shit, it really is. It doesn't even come close to a dedicated games machine, and at best it serves as a mild distraction when you have 10 minutes.
I regularly fly 10 hour flights and there's no way my S2 would get me through it alone, but it will kill 20 mins whilst I'm waiting for a meeting. Most kids I think feel the same, they will have an ipod touch in their school bag to kill the odd bit of time they will have, but they'd much prefer a proper playstation when on a long journey.
There's no reason why both can't exist with the correct marketing.