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[Mrbob]

If you can have fun with that kind of one-trick pony and never want anything bigger & better, kudos for you. There's a reason why it's only 1$ and something like Wipeout 2048 is 30$. I'd gladly take Wipeout over iPhone games every time.

I'm not going to argue against Jetpack Joyride, because the game is pretty sweet. However there really isn't much to the game at all when you really break it down. The genius in the title is the developers ability to use achievements alongside unlockables as a treadmill to keep you coming back.

There is also nothing stopping Jetpack Joyride from showing up on Vita for a buck or two if the developers wanted to do so. Vita can do everything ios hardware can do and more.

 

[zethren]

I remember when , once upon a time, Japan hated the PSP:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROFZhJDDqZA

Why ruin a perfectly good baseball bat?

 

[P90]

The problem for these handhelds from my point of view is not the numbers they do holiday 2011 or holiday 2012 even. The problem is the investment third parties are willing to make in the platform. As it stands no one is planning or showing to sink serious money into dedicated handheld development except for Japanese developers like Capcom but since Japanese publishers are either backing games heavily catered towards their own market or games developed in the west to compete in the console blockbuster space there's not much room for 3DS/Vita development. We're not even counting the developers who outright refuse to enter this market like Epic Games. Pretty much all shovelware has been moved to iOS/Android already and outside of a COD logo and some vague comments EA and Activision aren't showing much support either and without those two publishers Vita won't fly in the US/EU.

Western developers, that I know of, have never done much in the way of handheld games. If this is false, then I will stand corrected. IMO, Japanese developers are all that is needed for traditional handhelds to hold their own against iOS/Android devices.

I think you mean a high-end handheld at such a low end price. I seriously don't get why people are shitting on the Vita's pricing, it was the best thing Sony had done in a while.

Granted the Vita is priced decently for the tech, but it is still not a mass market price. Please don't compare iPhones and the like as they are tools with superficial gaming thrown in. The iPod might be relevant, but again, gaming is not its primary focus, nor is it "all that" for gaming

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

why would you buy a vita every two years?. Lol

The revisions as others have said? My 3GS still plays all new iPhone games, sure the FPS aren't as high as the 4S but they're definitely playable. But again, the Vita hardware for the most part must last until 2016 at the earliest. That is 5 years. Do you HONESTLY think it will be able to compete with the iOS, Android, and Window phones in a few years hardware wise?

I'm not going to argue against Jetpack Joyride, because the game is pretty sweet. However there really isn't much to the game at all when you really break it down. The genius in the title is the developers ability to use achievements alongside unlockables as a treadmill to keep you coming back.

There is also nothing stopping Jetpack Joyride from showing up on Vita for a buck or two if the developers wanted to do so. Vita can do everything ios hardware can do and more.

Well, except that the Vita is a bit bigger than the iPhone. But yes, it could definitely be ported to the Vita but what price would it have to sell at? That is the problem. Look at the 3DS and E-Shop. Games that should be $1-3 are $6-8. That is one of the reasons people will stick with their cell phones.

 

[[Nintex]]

I still wonder how low it will go I recall Nintendo once stopped GameCube production because they were sitting on too many unsold machines. I guess that's the lowest bar the Vita can go unless it goes straight to market rejection like Virtual Boy and NGage.

Western developers, that I know of, have never done much in the way of handheld games. If this is false, then I will stand corrected. IMO, Japanese developers are all that is needed for traditional handhelds to hold their own against iOS/Android devices.

But they are backing android and ios and the Japanese devs... well Konami can't seem to produce anything, Capcom is best friends forever with Nintendo at the moment and Square Enix is a big mess that mostly relies on Eidos but they're console and US centric. That kinda leaves.. I dunno, Namco Bandai, SEGA and the B-list but mostly Japanese developers working on games that aren't popular overseas like JRPG's and the likes.

 

[Uno Venova]

Wasn't the revision schedule for the PSPt? That's why I'm waiting for a few years before I get a 3DS and a PSVita.

That's a revision though, not a new one. Vita doesn't look like a piece of hardware to wait for a revision for, at least to me, only thing I could see as a big improvement is an hour or 2 put on the battery life.

 

[DCharlie]

if we are going to use examples of "well, game X on iOS is 99c!" then NO GAME on any platform should cost more than 99c .

I'm happy people do have the choice though, but ultimately it's a tricky set up. IF everyone does readjust their valuation of gaming down to iOS pricing levels then all the major software houses are utterly f*cked with their current model.

Interestingly, i'd have thought the success of 3DS showed that people -weren't- buying that mentality, but seems it's only applicable to the Vita for some strange reason.

at least to me, only thing I could see as a big improvement is an hour or 2 put on the battery life.

again - it's clocking 5 hours or so for me, 7 would of course be lovely, but it's not like the frigging 3DS or my crap old iphone 3G which would run out of batterys when i THOUGHT about using it.

Removable battery would be the one major improvement i'd want (i.e. like the PSP) . Put the cost of battery life in my hands - if i want 5 hours on one cell, fine. If i want to cover myself for 15-20 hours for long flights, then let me pay you over the odds for extra batteries. Simples.

 

[Majine]

There is nothing for you here, Sony. Only death.

 

[Myansie]

How can you talk about vita's future and not talk about about Call of Duty. Vita was obviously designed around that game. Once it's released we'll have a better idea of the console's future. Not a well researched article.

 

[runlikehell]

Best thread title change since the XIII-2 OT.

Vita is probably not DOA.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

I for one.....you know the rest gaf

 

[SeanR1221]

If you can have fun with that kind of one-trick pony and never want anything bigger & better, kudos for you. There's a reason why it's only 1$ and something like Wipeout 2048 is 30$. I'd gladly take Wipeout over iPhone games every time.

How is it a one-trick pony. Explain.

 

[Wazzim]

why would you buy a vita every two years?. Lol

Because that's the way people roll apparently.

I swear the smart phone market is the one which is going to collapse sooner or later with the speed of revisions every time. It's one big bubble. Another point where dedicated handhelds are superior. This doom bullshit will bite back when people can't afford that new $500 apple device or console anymore, they'll get a handheld for their kids.

 

[bigtroyjon]

if we are going to use examples of "well, game X on iOS is 99c!" then NO GAME on any platform should cost more than 99c .

I'm happy people do have the choice though, but ultimately it's a tricky set up. IF everyone does readjust their valuation of gaming down to iOS pricing levels then all the major software houses are utterly f*cked with their current model.

Interestingly, i'd have thought the success of 3DS showed that people -weren't- buying that mentality, but seems it's only applicable to the Vita for some strange reason.

Major software houses already ignore handhelds, why would they be fucked?

Lots of people seem to be combining handhelds and consoles in this discussion for some strange reason, but all home consoles have done over the last 5 years is grow

 

[brotkasten]

That's a revision though, not a new one. Vita doesn't look like a piece of hardware to wait for a revision for, at least to me, only thing I could see as a big improvement is an hour or 2 put on the battery life.

I'm waiting for the reintroduction of the TV out. Still kinda pissed they took it out.

 

[Plinko]

How can you talk about vita's future and not talk about about Call of Duty. Vita was obviously designed around that game. Once it's released we'll have a better idea of the console's future. Not a well researched article.

I agree with others in that I think the market for a handheld COD game is being vastly overstated.

 

[Cromat]

If you can have fun with that kind of one-trick pony and never want anything bigger & better, kudos for you. There's a reason why it's only 1$ and something like Wipeout 2048 is 30$. I'd gladly take Wipeout over iPhone games every time.

Let's see someone actually making an ORIGINAL iPhone game of the quality & scope of Final Fantasy Tactics (with the kind of graphics smartphones are capable of, not something ripped straight out of the 80s) instead of just porting 10-20 year old games, hmmm?

Don't worry, it will come. I imagine that a lot of the titles that will hit 3DS and Vita will eventually end up on smartphones (for a fraction of the price) after their publishers believe they have "run their course" on their original platforms.
Developing a quality original game and then selling it for $5 is not a good business strategy. It's better to develop the game for a more "price intensive" platform first and then bring it over. It doesn't matter in the end - mobile phone gamers end up playing the same game more conveniently and for a cheaper price.

If (when?) gaming handhelds really slow down to a halt then we'll start seeing a bit more price diversity on smartphones as well.

Secondly, the argument you presented is a double edged sword - 3DS has its fair share of remakes of Nintendo 64 games or simple adaptations of older games (Mario Kart).

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Kind of jumping the gun methinks.

Yes, its second week was a terrible, abysmal, absolutely devastating showing but it only took two weeks to get within 100,000 units of the OG Xbox Japanese total.

What it looks like at the end of its first year will give us an idea of its trajectory, but it's not like we haven't seen platforms gain second third and fourth winds this past generation.

I mean the PSP was all but dead after it's second year, to rebound in a big way. The 360 in America was all but assured to always be a second stringer, and now it's having it's highest showings.

Right now simple and cheap games are readily available on iOS. But good God people are fickle. Next year they may hate that market and only buy PS3 games.

 

[Famassu]

But they are backing android and ios and the Japanese devs... well Konami can't seem to produce anything, Capcom is best friends forever with Nintendo at the moment and Square Enix is a big mess that mostly relies on Eidos but they're console and US centric. That kinda leaves.. I dunno, Namco Bandai, SEGA and the B-list but mostly Japanese developers working on games that aren't popular overseas like JRPG's and the likes.

I don't really understand why you bring up Square Enix as a "mess" when talking about handhelds, given that they've developed a few of the best handheld games ever (while the Eidos side has done absolutely nothing for PSP or DS)

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

500k shipment to cover december - 400k sold in two weeks.

80% sell through is tanking? Again, the way people are reacting you'd think it had sold absolutely nothing.

The irony is if Sony had went with a shipment of 350k they could have played the "supply constraint" card and they'd be riding the press victory chariot whilst wheeling out "we are trying hard as we can to meet demand for out extremely high tech machine, we ask customers to be patient whilst we magic up more awesome". No one would be screaming doomed, or where is my price cut? , or where is my ambassadors reception with which Sony are spoiling us.... or whatever.

Just baffling - a load of you have lost your damned minds.

So true.

 

[areal]

I seriously don't get why people are shitting on the Vita's pricing, it was the best thing Sony had done in a while.

Yeah, the price is appropriate. Would people prefer worse hardware at a lower cost (less battery life, cheaper screen, etc.) or do they just expect Sony to take a bath? (They'll make back the money from $5 games, right?)

 

[Dead Prince]

How can you talk about vita's future and not talk about about Call of Duty. Vita was obviously designed around that game. Once it's released we'll have a better idea of the console's future. Not a well researched article.

why would COD be the deciding factor lol.

 

[herod]

Yet to read any article or analyst justifying their premise that the portable gaming market is a fixed size that has reached its peak.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Check the date of the original iPhone launch, the check the start of the DS handheld gen, then take their current software and hardware numbers for this handheld gen and compare it to the last handheld gen.

If you want to make a statement that its declining heavily, and that its due to phones, and not the normal generational shift gaming ALWAYS goes through, then show me, assuming you can stomach it. But thats not something your going to want to do, because handheld gaming grew in comparison to last gen. So stick to cherry picking the transitional period of consoles, where the past 25 fucking years have shown us ALWAYS leads to declines as a system ages, and is eventually replaced by a successor, and ignoring the 3DS's current success (which is ahead of even the NDS's start) to spearhead your POV. Shit works better that way.

Apples to apples comparisons are avoided by people championing this horseshit for a reason.

Yep i don't think nintendos position is as bad as many people are making out. The handheld market grew quite a bit last generation and i don't think nintendos market is going to shrink all that much.

There is still a huge demand for nintendos dedicated gaming handhelds and unlike some analysts and posters i don't think that's changing any time soon.

The 3DS had a poor start because nintendo got a little cocky after the DS and over priced it. I don't think smartphones are having that much impact on nintendo.

That graph that is being posted with handheld gaming revenue doesn't mean much and if anything just agrees with this. Even as iphone/android has overtaken with revenue the handheld market still saw massive growth this gen.

I think we're just seeing a massive expansion of handheld devices in general. Nintendo may lose some marketshare but they aren't dying off any time soon.

I wouldn't worry about Vita over here, after all it does have a CoD title under development.

The PSP got COD as well. There is no guarantee that the massive COD success will transfer over to handhelds (kinda like MH and pokemon don't translate very well to home consoles).

 

[tzare]

The revisions as others have said? My 3GS still plays all new iPhone games, sure the FPS aren't as high as the 4S but they're definitely playable. But again, the Vita hardware for the most part must last until 2016 at the earliest. That is 5 years. Do you HONESTLY think it will be able to compete with the iOS, Android, and Window phones in a few years hardware wise?



Well, except that the Vita is a bit bigger than the iPhone. But yes, it could definitely be ported to the Vita but what price would it have to sell at? That is the problem. Look at the 3DS and E-Shop. Games that should be $1-3 are $6-8. That is one of the reasons people will stick with their cell phones.

Even if hw is les powerful than iphone7 games would still look as good or even better than most 99 cents ones on a powerful hw. Just like today.

Sure, there are decent games on smartphones, but it is like comparing tablet gaming with pc or console gaming. Apples and oranges. If you are only interested in those games, vita was never ment for you. It is a useless discussion.

 

[Warm Machine]

That Xperia Play was a real rip roaring success wasn't it?

You know as well as I do that the Xperia is no metric to judge the success of a Playstation branded cell device. I doubt Sony even knows they made the thing. A Vita phone would probably be less than $30 more to actually build. It isn't like Sony has never made a phone before so they have the infrastructure.

 

[ZoddGutts]

why would COD be the deciding factor lol.

Just like Grand Theft Auto was the deciding factor for PSP.

 

[cjtiger300]

This article is nothing more than kneejerk reactionary bullshit. A drop in the 2nd week means that the console is doomed for the rest of its life? Give me a fucking break!

Never mind the fact that it's launch lineup is far more suited to the western markets than the Japanese market, a soft launch in Japan is not a good indicator of future success in the west at all!

And they just cant resist the usual bullshit comparisons with the smartphone/tablet markets!



So it's going to be killed by a low budget, low spec tablet that barely plays games at all. Totally competing for the same audience here...



So the 3DS has outsold it's predecessor in the same timeframe and has broken multiple sales records across the globe and you say that means that the handheld gaming market is in decline. Ok then! Whatever you say...

The Vita has barely even started in Japan. While the 3DS will probably win the war in Japan quite handidly (given that it has basically every single major 3rd party franchise lined up for it and its momentum appears unstoppable), its success in the US is not dependant on its success, or lack thereof in Japan. COD Vita could well take off for all we know and become the Monster Hunter of the west for handhelds.

It's far too early to make such outlandish predictions about it's lifetime potential. It hasn't even launched here FFS!

The only thing that can be said for certain is that the price absolutely will not drop any time soon. Sony are losing money on each device and are not in a financial position where they can afford to do this for too long, so forget about any kind of price drop.

Agreed on pretty much every point. All I know is, I have my 3G preordered and paid off. Now I just need to decide what size memory card I want. Amazon needs to hurry the fuck up and put accessories up for preorder!!!

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Man I hope COD sells millions, that would be so great and kind of rock the handheld market a bit, at least in NA.

 

[Wazzim]

Just like Grand Theft Auto was the deciding factor for PSP.

I don't know if you are joking or not but GTA sold a shit ton of copies on PSP. Makes you wonder if GTA will come on Vita too.

 

[V_Ben]

I don't know if you are joking or not but GTA sold a shit ton of copies on PSP. Makes you wonder if GTA will come on Vita too.

Well, Rockstar is making a game for the Vita.

 

[Diablos54]

Handhelds will never die. Simply due to the fact we all know Nintendo will never develop a main Pokemon game on a home console.

 

[UncleSporky]

Yeah, the price is appropriate. Would people prefer worse hardware at a lower cost (less battery life, cheaper screen, etc.) or do they just expect Sony to take a bath? (They'll make back the money from $5 games, right?)

Worse hardware would mean lower development costs too, attracting third party devs to the system, and it'd mean more graphical parity between it and 3DS, meaning more ports that don't look relatively unfitting for the hardware.

So, yeah. If they could price match 3DS where it's at now, slightly worse hardware would be just dandy.

 

[BocoDragon]

I think we need to stop basing hardware success on launch periods. Launch periods suck.

 

[Myansie]

I agree with others in that I think the market for a handheld COD game is being vastly overstated.

It's an interesting argument. More so than the smartphone argument is going to kill handheldst . There's clearly an overlap in products. The numbrr of people who buy a vita that also own a smartphone is going to be huge, like close to 100% big. It's definitely a gamble for sony and you may well be proven right, but you certainly can't ignore it's importance to vita's future.

 

[Solune]

I don't know if you are joking or not but GTA sold a shit ton of copies on PSP. Makes you wonder if GTA will come on Vita too.

you obviously have no idea what you are talking about do you.

 

[Exterminieren]

People are really thinking handhelds are doomed because western developers won't develop for them? Really?

Outside of maybe Scribblenauts, how many hits did western developers contribute to DS? PSP was a bit more dependant on western devs, but they really weren't the dividing line between success and failure.

 

[Famassu]

why would COD be the deciding factor lol.

Well, this is coming from someone who hasn't played CoD more than 20 minutes since CoD1, but Vita has the hardware & online functionality to perhaps make a portable FPS a big success. Thanks to the hardware, the games can look comparable to console FPSs (60fps and all) and control better than PSP FPSs did, and of course Vita has a big emphasis on the online/community side of things, so multiplayer could become a big thing if they do a proper job with the game.

Of course nothing is certain, but a proper portable Call of Duty could be something that gets Vita off the ground at least in North America and Europe.

 

[Boney]

No they are not. And don't start the Hirai misquote here.
Several Sony members said they're breaking even.

I don't know, the actual quote doesn't sound like the actual hardware is gonna be the one breaking even, but games and accesory sales at launch will propel it. Especially if it's SCEA saying that with the awful exchange rates and what not.

Profit margins should elevate pretty soon after launch though

wait why am i responding to you oh god

 

[Grayman]

Nintendo and Sony should have converged portables as handhelds for new consoles this generation. They shit the bed by not integrating and trojaning these devices to protect their declined market.

 

[Kyon]

People are really thinking handhelds are doomed because western developers won't develop for them? Really?

Outside of maybe Scribblenauts, how many hits did western developers contribute to DS? PSP was a bit more dependant on western devs, but they really weren't the dividing line between success and failure.

This is why i just laugh. Cause honestly i find Western devs terrible. Besides some Sony Studios. The
Western market is the last place i would care for sales in terms of handhelds.

 

[Takao]

The PSP got COD as well. There is no guarantee that the massive COD success will transfer over to handhelds (kinda like MH and pokemon don't translate very well to home consoles).

PSP's COD came prior to the explosion in popularity that brand faced. It also was a low effort version on hardware that had difficulties providing that genre justice. It's like looking back on the PS2 Monster Hunters and wondering why they didn't sell a million when Tri on Wii did.

 

[Monty Mole]

What I love about handhelds is that they're just about the only place left to find a wealth of awesome Japanese developed games just like the consoles used to have.

Personally, I thought Vita was doomed the day they announced it. I think people didn't want console experiences on a handheld when PSP was launched and they don't now.

Nintendo is the king of handheld gaming. They know exactly how to target the market and they know exactly how to make the right games for it. What they did with DS was extraordinary. While not invincible, I think people shouldn't be too quick to underestimate them - we've all done it far too many times. 3DS is still in the early days and despite a rough start, it's quickly starting to gain solid momentum.

Super Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart 7 are going to sell millions of copies. And not at 69p each.

 

[bigtroyjon]

People are really thinking handhelds are doomed because western developers won't develop for them? Really?

Outside of maybe Scribblenauts, how many hits did western developers contribute to DS? PSP was a bit more dependant on western devs, but they really weren't the dividing line between success and failure.

That's what you are taking out of this thread? Really?

 

[Kyon]

What I love about handhelds is that they're just about the only place left to find a wealth of awesome Japanese developed games just like the consoles used to have.

.

 

[areal]

So, yeah. If they could price match 3DS where it's at now, slightly worse hardware would be just dandy.

They have the PSP for that. Competing directly with the 3DS is a losing game for Sony. Competing well above the 3DS might be a losing game too, but it makes more sense to aim for that market, however small it is. Worst case, the market is too small to justify the effort and they give up. That wouldn't be so bad, I think, provided that they don't throw away a ton of money subsidising hardware.

 

[odhiex]

First compare Vita with Smart phones... next, compare it with Tablets (Kindle?)

 

[Barkley's Justice]

I'm not going to argue against Jetpack Joyride, because the game is pretty sweet. However there really isn't much to the game at all when you really break it down.

Reminds me of this Seamus Blackley interview in Edge where he makes the comparison that mobile & social games are the new arcade games:

What this [era of iPads & Facebook] really reminds me of is the early days of the arcades. That era and this era have everything in common. A game had to succeed or fail for a completely casual audience, with no marketing, based on its attract mode or the first 30 seconds of play. If you won, you made 100 million dollars. If you didn’t win, you went out of business.

Those arcade guys understand exactly what’s going on now: we’re in the era of the new arcade. It’s something I’m betting heavily on. What’s even more fascinating is that 99 cents, with inflation, is pretty much the same as a quarter. It couldn’t be more perfect.

http://www.next-gen.biz/news/blackley-consoles-arent-dead-theyve-won

 

[Barkley's Justice]

First compare Vita with Smart phones... next, compare it with Tablets (Kindle?)

you mustn't be afraid to dream bigger, darling.

 

[Exterminieren]

That's what you are taking out of this thread? Really?

The problem for these handhelds from my point of view is not the numbers they do holiday 2011 or holiday 2012 even. The problem is the investment third parties are willing to make in the platform. As it stands no one is planning or showing to sink serious money into dedicated handheld development except for Japanese developers like Capcom but since Japanese publishers are either backing games heavily catered towards their own market or games developed in the west to compete in the console blockbuster space there's not much room for 3DS/Vita development. We're not even counting the developers who outright refuse to enter this market like Epic Games. Pretty much all shovelware has been moved to iOS/Android already and outside of a COD logo and some vague comments EA and Activision aren't showing much support either and without those two publishers Vita won't fly in the US/EU.

A little bit, yeah.