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Halo: Reach |OT7| What are They to Say Now?

Ramirez said:
I kind of feel bad for the people who actually want vanilla Reach. The TU stuff should have just been kept to a separate playlist and the anniversary stuff.

Bleed through bug aside, I really don't understand how anyone can play 100% bloom after playing the reduced/ZB versions, but ok.
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Yeah but at the same time, having Vanilla, TU and Anniversary coexist is pretty fuckin stupid. Count MLG in there and that's 4 variations of Reach and that's just too divisive.

I do wish the bleedthrough bug gets fixed in the future and if possible just completely separated from melee bleedthrough and removed. Melee bleedthrough is great, bullet bleedthrough is bad.

100% bloom feels so terrible though. I experienced it the first time in a long time when we were playing a Team Slayer match during our achievement group and it was just disgusting.
 
Ramirez said:
I kind of feel bad for the people who actually want vanilla Reach. The TU stuff should have just been kept to a separate playlist and the anniversary stuff.

Bleed through bug aside, I really don't understand how anyone can play 100% bloom after playing the reduced/ZB versions, but ok.
Click to expand...

Obviously this all up to personal preference.

The majority of changes in the TU I can get behind. The two I take issue with are the bloom reduction and the bleedthrough.

The bloom reduction to me makes pacing your shots less important. That's what some people wanted but I always felt the issue was people spamming their weapons and that this change only makes spamming more viable. It takes away part of the strategy. But honestly its not that big of an issue except I keep swapping between 85% and 100% so it feels like it is always changing.

Bleedthrough is a far larger detriment. I get that it sucks having someone sprint at you while you shoot them only for them to melee you and now you both have no shields. But I would much rather have that and the complete clarity of the feedback you get with the default settings.

Ideally, both of these problems could have been addressed differently and probably handled better. Like Barrow said above, if they made it melee bleedthrough only and had some other cue (similar to a shield break) for when a melee would kill you that would have been best.

The bloom should have been updated to follow the extreme of the reticule only instead of the shot falling anywhere within.

I can understand that 343 has a limit to what they could do without taking the game apart which is fine. I don't think either Vanilla or TU is ideal but I am glad the option is there for those who want it.
 
I just played a night of Reach and feel I need to get this off my chest; fuck Countdown, fuck handheld nukes, fuck Concussion Rifle and fuck jetpack.

Ah. Much better.
 
GhaleonEB said:
*opens the update*

*CTRL+F firefight*

*sadly reads update*

Still at work at 9:00. New year not off to a good start. Was hoping 343 would cheer me up. Alas.

How long until Primordium hits paperback?
Click to expand...

It already has! I was surprised myself and it arrived a few days ago. (got it from Amazon UK)


Ramirez said:
I kind of feel bad for the people who actually want vanilla Reach. The TU stuff should have just been kept to a separate playlist and the anniversary stuff.

Bleed through bug aside, I really don't understand how anyone can play 100% bloom after playing the reduced/ZB versions, but ok.
Click to expand...

I feel bad for all 5 of those guys too, but this way im more likely to play the game so im happy. :P My only complaint is that presumably TU and Vanilla will co exist in the same playlist? Thats pretty bad, they are pretty different experiences.
 
Sparth uploaded some Rage artwork @ CGHUB.

570_stream.jpg

873_stream.jpg

193_stream.jpg


I have yet to play RAGE, but ID did some justice to creating the feel Sparth gave with these concept in the game. I'm basing this solely on footage I've seen of RAGE.

Wat, I visit his portfolio from time to time. Don't call me a hoodie stalker.
 
A27 Tawpgun said:
This, but change the bolded to pleasure.
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Boy, it certainly doesn't sound like you're impartial towards damage bleed in Reach.

The part that really boggles my mind is that they acknowledge that it diminishes feedback and continue to spread it without a solution. I've been playing Squad Slayer and Objective recently and melee encounters just feel random.

What also annoys me are the comments about how I must love default Reach since I don't think the TU gametype's damage bleed settings belong in this game in particular. I didn't prefer playing Team Slayer. I liked having default Reach settings without Armor Lock, and Bungie made that a plentiful option. 343 Industries makes balance changes to Armor Lock, but puts a whole bucket of other changes along with it, and then puts them in lists that don't have Armor Lock at all. It just doesn't make sense.

Compared to Reach TU settings, Halo 3 has a better feedback system than Reach. I hope going backwards in readability isn't a trend for Halo 4.
 
FyreWulff said:
At this point they might as well finish it off and take the losses of people leaving the game over the changes, just like Bungie had to do when they updated Halo 2 and Halo 3. This wishy washy trying to be inoffensive style of matchmaking management is more annoying than if they'd just do that.
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Agreed, the only reason they're doing this is because it wasn't their game to start with. They should trust their own convictions. Any other game that gets patched, the changes are not to be reversed and definitive. Now I'm used to 85% bloom, I can't/don't want to go back to 100% so the new dlc playlist is off limits to me. Just be bold and implement the tu changes across the board and be done with it, so as to avoid confusion for the non-forum dwelling public.

Havok said:
In another month (I think) it will have been in Objective as long as Drop Shield was.

Please follow precedent and globally axe the shit out of it.
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I'm convinced they've lost the keys to loadouts in objective gametypes. Pro-tip: just because everybody uses it, doesn't mean it's popular and therefore shouldn't be removed. Everybody uses it because it's more broke than Greece.

I applaud the inclusion of a few new maps into Team Snipers though, it was long overdue.
 
On a more upbeat note, one of the maps that made it in was the Uncaged variant I cooked up, which was based off similiar idea for the submitted Asylum variant named "Bedlam" where it's a "destroyed" version of the original map. Really glad to see all those community maps finally get added to LD though.

Video walkthrough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8FoV--V7mI

Trying to get renders of the other maps soon before the update for perusal.
 
FyreWulff said:
On a more upbeat note, one of the maps that made it in was the Uncaged variant I cooked up, which was based off similiar idea for the submitted Asylum variant named "Bedlam" where it's a "destroyed" version of the original map. Really glad to see all those community maps finally get added to LD though.

Video walkthrough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8FoV--V7mI

Trying to get renders of the other maps soon before the update for perusal.
Click to expand...

Thats actually a pretty cool idea! Nice one. Its odd to say it but im looking forward to zombies now, im sure the maps will be pretty funky.
 
bobs99 ... said:
Thats actually a pretty cool idea! Nice one. Its odd to say it but im looking forward to zombies now, im sure the maps will be pretty funky.
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Currently unrendered films:

Bedlam (Asylum)
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25375319&player=FyreWulff

Pandemic (Ivory Tower)
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25375330&player=FyreWulff

Count d’Houen (Countdown)
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25375345&player=FyreWulff

Deadwalk (Boardwalk)
(need to upload film again)

Powerless (Powerhouse)
(need to upload film again)

Spooky Base (Sword Base)
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25375326&player=FyreWulff

Parasitic (Zealot)
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Reach/FileDetails.aspx?fid=25375332&player=FyreWulff
 
FyreWulff said:
On a more upbeat note, one of the maps that made it in was the Uncaged variant I cooked up, which was based off similiar idea for the submitted Asylum variant named "Bedlam" where it's a "destroyed" version of the original map. Really glad to see all those community maps finally get added to LD though.

Video walkthrough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8FoV--V7mI

Trying to get renders of the other maps soon before the update for perusal.
Click to expand...

Loving how it looks.
 
This whole no-news thing is really reminding me of the post-E3 media silence after Skyward Sword was revealed.

Link in Halo 4 confirmed.
 
stephen08 said:
The bloom reduction to me makes pacing your shots less important. That's what some people wanted but I always felt the issue was people spamming their weapons and that this change only makes spamming more viable. It takes away part of the strategy. But honestly its not that big of an issue except I keep swapping between 85% and 100% so it feels like it is always changing.
Click to expand...

Wow this again huh?

I guess I missed the memo that having your shots fall more accurately is 'spamming'.

ZB is just full of total spamming, instead of, you know, just shooting.

Bloom is free to die a horrible death in H4 as far as I am concerned, would much rather have an accurate ROF locked weapon than the current incarnation. (h2 BR back please)
 
Letters said:
Nothing wrong with Reach, what are you talking about?
Click to expand...

I found Halo 2 and 3 multiplayer a joy to play, well sometimes frustrating, but on the whole a joy. I find myself wrestling with a completely different set of mechanics in Reach that just don't fill me with that same joy. Fixed firing rates, no bloom, damage bleed through, faster movement speed, floatier jumping; these are the things I love about Halo, yet all were absent in Reach. I could go on, but it's been done to death.

For the record I thought Reach's campaign was the best of the franchise, better than CE and ODST. I just don't think the mechanics translated well into a competitive environment.

I've got faith in 343i thought. Domino's post a while back about how they assured him they knew why many fans felt apathetic towards Reach, and that they too shared similar feelings gave me confidence.

The lack of news on the Halo 4 front is frustrating though. I really did expect a trailer at the VGAs, or at least some news as to what we can expect. I think the fact that they're letting Primodium breath on a canonical front gives us a slight indication that the book will tie into Halo 4's fiction, which, if you know what happens in the book is very interesting.
 
Arnie said:
I found Halo 2 and 3 multiplayer a joy to play, well sometimes frustrating, but on the whole a joy. I find myself wrestling with a completely different set of mechanics in Reach that just don't fill me with that same joy. Fixed firing rates, no bloom, no damage bleed through, faster movement speed, floatier jumping. I could go on, but it's been done to death.

For the record I thought Reach's campaign was the best of the franchise, better than CE and ODST. I just don't think the mechanics translated well into a competitive environment.

I've got faith in 343i thought. Domino's post a while back about how they assured him they knew why many fans felt apathetic towards Reach, and that they too shared similar feelings gave me confidence.

The lack of news on the Halo 4 front is frustrating though. I really did expect a trailer at the VGAs, or at least some news as to what we can expect. I think the fact that they're letting Primodium breath on a canonical front gives us a slight indication that the book will tie into Halo 4's fiction, which, if you know what happens in the book is very interesting.
Click to expand...

This man writes down my thoughts.
 
Thagomizer said:
Doesn't Reach have a much slower movement speed and much less floaty jumping? I went back to H3 after Reach and I felt like I was on the damn moon.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I meant the opposite, I wrote a list of the things the previous Halos did better, then labelled them as Reach's failings. I'll amend my post.

To clarify: that list is what I find fun about past Halo titles, and what I described as missing from Reach.
 
Arnie said:
Sorry, I meant the opposite, I wrote a list of the things the previous Halos did better, then labelled them as Reach's failings. I'll amend my post.

To clarify: that list is what I find fun about past Halo titles, and what I described as missing from Reach.
Click to expand...

When I first skimmed over the post I thought it read as, To clarify a list of what I find fun in Reach that is missing in older titles:





All that empty space would be a pretty apt list. :p
 
It's also funny how you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

I remember falling for the pre-release podcasts, with Sage hyping up the bloom, and Luke hyping up the Arena.

Now all I want is a BR and some 1-50 playlists. And no, I'm not going to go back and play Halo 3. It doesn't work that way.
 
Arnie said:
It's also funny how you don't know what you've got until it's gone.

I remember falling for the pre-release podcasts, with Sage hyping up the bloom, and Luke hyping up the Arena.

Now all I want is a BR and some 1-50 playlists. And no, I'm not going to go back and play Halo 3. It doesn't work that way.
Click to expand...

All 360 developers are moving away from showing visible Trueskill. COD's done just fine with never showing an actual skill levels at all, and Gears 2 even patched visible trueskill out of the game halfway through it's run.

If 343 is at the least bit sane, Halo 4 won't make the mistake of using visible trueskill in its' ranked playlist either. It wouldn't act like Halo 3's 1-50 anyway.
 
Yeah, the whole silence over Halo 4 news makes me think that they only semi recently put a solid plan together of when and how to show it off. Im sure they had it planned to a degree, but there never was any sort of comment along the lines of "not til 2012" which makes me think it was an open discussion. Im not too worried about the state of the game, just sad because I like a good marketing campaign and hope it gets its gears going soon. It is too bad we dont have anything small or viral to pick over while waiting, but there was Primordium, which gives a lot to talk about.


On another note, why havent TU settings been made standard yet? Im glad they will be in some playlists, but that seems like it may be confusing after a while. Just make em standard IMO.
I also hate being sword blocked. I know, Im a sword whore, need to adapt, etc. Haha



FyreWulff said:
On a more upbeat note, one of the maps that made it in was the Uncaged variant I cooked up, which was based off similiar idea for the submitted Asylum variant named "Bedlam" where it's a "destroyed" version of the original map. Really glad to see all those community maps finally get added to LD though.

Video walkthrough:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8FoV--V7mI

Trying to get renders of the other maps soon before the update for perusal.
Click to expand...

I have been waiting for them to add custom tailored maps to infection for so long, so Im thrilled to see this finally. More unique maps will add some much needed variety. Also, that map looks awesome!
 
FyreWulff said:
All 360 developers are moving away from showing visible Trueskill. COD's done just fine with never showing an actual skill levels at all, and Gears 2 even patched visible trueskill out of the game halfway through it's run.

If 343 is at the least bit sane, Halo 4 won't make the mistake of using visible trueskill in its' ranked playlist either. It wouldn't act like Halo 3's 1-50 anyway.
Click to expand...

Does CoD even use trueskill for matching? That game just dumps you in with whoever/whenever.
 
FyreWulff said:
All 360 developers are moving away from showing visible Trueskill. COD's done just fine with never showing an actual skill levels at all, and Gears 2 even patched visible trueskill out of the game halfway through it's run.

If 343 is at the least bit sane, Halo 4 won't make the mistake of using visible trueskill in its' ranked playlist either. It wouldn't act like Halo 3's 1-50 anyway.
Click to expand...

360 developers aren't moving away from visible true skill rankings, they never went there in the first place. Halo is pretty much the exception to the rule, and that's why I enjoy it (and partly why Reach feels so incredibly dull).

Ranking players by skill is infinitely superior to ranking them by experience. That visual signifier offers a reason to win games (because winning means progressing, and losing means regressing).

The system also allows for players to be specifically skilled in certain playlists. Someone might be a good BTB player, capable of using the vehicles to control the map and ultimately the objective, yet not be particularly efficient in a small Slayer environment.

Giving players a universal ranking system tied to all games played that rewards players no matter the outcome of a game is a tired, uninspiring system. If they do that, like Reach has done with it's credit system, then frankly I just can't see myself being motivated to play the game in the manner that I used to.
Striker said:
Because you want a good BR and ranks that aren't ass.
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A hitscan BR would be nice. As far as ranks go, I wouldn't mind a modified 1-50 system, perhaps with the visible bars like Halo 2. But ranking based on skill is a must for me, none of this "reward everyone, all the time" nonsense that's plagued Reach. A hangover from other games' successes.
Demoncarnotaur said:
Yeah, the whole silence over Halo 4 news makes me think that they only semi recently put a solid plan together of when and how to show it off.
Click to expand...
Or they're waiting for a certain Microsoft announcement at CES!

I kid. Your interpretation is probably closer to the truth.
 
ranking based on skill is a must for me, none of this "reward everyone, all the time" nonsense that's plagued Reach. A hangover from other games' successes.
Click to expand...

Agreed!

I just wanted to say though (to play devils advocate), that I think the CoD system works well, and that the cheap imitation that they tried with Reach fails for a few reasons, but none of them are because they are based on the CoD model, they failed because they missed the point of the CoD model. Just one example is:

In CoD your gameplay ability is still directly relevant to your ranking up speed. A better player will get more kills, chain up streaks and rank up faster. A poor player can still hit the max rank but it will take longer. Ultimatly with CoD even though its a system where everyone is rewarded, players who are into the game more are rewarded more.

The annoying random payouts in Reach are the total opposite of that system. Your not really rewarded for your gameplay, just your time played. This leads to stuff like afk'ing.
 
I'd be pretty happy if they went towards a Starcraft 2 style ranking system in H4.

It seems to work quite well for the hundreds of thousands of players on its ladders ;)
 
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