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Football/Fútbol/Fussball/Calcio Thread 11/12 |OT5| Manchester Fragrance: Channel N°5
- Thread starter elseanio
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How much is he even worth? He hasn't started many premier league games has he?
He hasn't. We're not going to get much for him if he does go. The reason Newcastle are involved at present is that Ferguson won't sell to a rival while he has a contractual hold on him. If he wanted to go to City or Chelsea or Arsenal, and they wanted him, he'd probably have to wait until his contract elapses.
But then, we don't even know what the nature of Newcastle's interest is. There's so much garbage flying around the internet about the lad that I'm just assuming that negotiations will continue and he'll stick around.
Barton is an inter-galactic knobhead on and off the pitch. I haven't seen Ravel kick lumps out of people while playing. In other respects, yeah - he could be.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Quirarte out. 
Ffs.
Ffs.I am actually not mad, for once. Hopefully Güero Real is back after this debacle. So, optimism!Fëanor;34277490 said:
Vivalaraza
Member
Ravel's going to stay, I can sense it.
Wish he was more like Balotelli.
^Not too sure, Fergie liked the lad but last rumour I heard was he wanted £50K a week. Does he think we're City?
There's also an incredibly fake facebook screencap going around.
One thing I really can't understand is skipping training. I wouldn't be able to show my face if I were being paid by a top club to work on my football and I took the piss. I'd be embarrassed to talk to my team mates, to my coaches, to senior players.
Oh yeah, well we'll see about that. I rather like our chances of toppling this dodgy United side.
I rather like our chances in those games. Sunderland are going to be a threat and an away trip to AC Milan straight after is not ideal but if we get our injured players back and don't pick up any new injuries I feel we have the squad capable of picking up the points. I would settle for a draw at AC Milan provided we score, don't want a goalless draw.
The league is getting more interesting, no doubt. More competent, too. There's still some ludicrous naivety going around - you'll tear your hair out if you actually support one of the teams and they insist on trying to play it into the box and go the full 90 minutes with only about 3 shots.
I remember someone posting this a while ago
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqupuifLC14
Mercifully, it's only a brief wait until you are proven completely wrong.
I'd say 'drastic' are the changes needed in this Liverpool squad.
Bullshit. This mentality is exactly what I'm talking about. It's clear you're a bit of a fair weather fan so why not just support Bayern and stop de-moralizing the rest of us with your negativity?
This side just beat the league leaders last week, being the first time this season that anyone has held them goalless at home.
We dominate games in the midfield, keep possession even against the top teams and have maybe the best back 4 in the league. We had strings of 5-6 first touch passes finding each other around the box and just can't seem to score.
We don't need drastic changes. This project was always and is still a long-term one. It'll come good - the money and the desire is there.
Wow. Really?
I've been pissed throughout this season because of mistakes made especially in the transfer window. Last season things were even worst, but I wasn't like this because I didn't expect much from Roy Hodgson.
But then when you have Kenny back, and you see him steading the ship brilliantly at the second half of last season, you'd expect him to do similarly this year. Just look at the squad he had before the summer, and the current one. A few new players like Enrique and Bellamy would have done the job to be honest, and they didn't even cost 10m. He shipped off Raul, Aquilani, Joe Cole, Pacheco, players that would start in this current side or make to the bench (Carragher, Coates, Kelly all making to the bench these, I bet people miss even Joe Cole.)
But it's clear to me that too much money was spent and the squad looks worse than before. 100m and it doesn't even look like a top 4 side. You have to admit it's very disappointing.
About beating City. It wasn't a masterclass of a performance, was it? It was 1 nil from a penalty and a defensive side was set until the final whistle.
Awesome Animals
Member
You know, I'm not sure this is the right argument to be making. By this logic none of us should be throwing out opinions about our teams and the matches we see.
Joel Was Right
Member
Yeah I agree. Besides, there is no inherent relationship between the extent of your loyalty to a club and the legitimacy of an opinion.
It's one of those things where for the sake of discussion, you tolerate a certain amount of people (who are certain they know best) giving their opinion, but when the amount of negativity is overwhelming, it's not wrong to step in.
For example, Arsenal fans were adamant that Wenger had lost it, 4th place was out of sight and that this year's signings would fail. Anyone with sense knows that Wenger is one of the world's best football managers and that despite the missteps, Arsenal would be back in the running soon enough. And they are.
Liverpool will be, too. A few good signings will help - but do we need to rebuild the whole team again already after having done just that last year? No. We need someone better than Kuyt, and maybe someone better than Carroll as well.
For example, Arsenal fans were adamant that Wenger had lost it, 4th place was out of sight and that this year's signings would fail. Anyone with sense knows that Wenger is one of the world's best football managers and that despite the missteps, Arsenal would be back in the running soon enough. And they are.
Liverpool will be, too. A few good signings will help - but do we need to rebuild the whole team again already after having done just that last year? No. We need someone better than Kuyt, and maybe someone better than Carroll as well.
Swansea to snatch a draw or better.
Yes please!
Oh hell no!!!!! Robin Van Persie will see us right!
Joel Was Right
Member
Not talking about you specifically, but I imagine I can relate with my frustration at people who are oblivious to certain issues within a team/club; the naive optimism, or blind silence as I call it, can at times be depressing.
I'm probably one of the most cynical Arsenal fans amongst my group of Gooner friends but that's probably down to none of them voicing the issues I see and instead to shrug about it. Whenever I've read the Liverpool boards over the years, there always seems to be a clear split between the fanbase when it comes to the state of the team and suitability of the manager, probably more so than any other fanbase.
edit
It could be plausible that those fans see these issues as well but don't feel the need to beat the dead horse over and over again but instead choose to retain the faith in the players we have, our strongest 11 is a very good side, and harpe on the issues in the transfer season since that is when the changes that Arsenal need can take place.
I, for example, see no point in bitching and moaning that our squad is lacking depth, creativity, defensively fragile and too heavily focused on Van Persie in October when nothing can be done about it then. Inside I am hoping like hell that we offload some of the dead wood and replace them with better players.
It's not always naïve optimism, so much as an admission that a problem is too distant to be solved or even properly considered by laymen. I get aggravated in the same manner when I see people jumping to conclusions and judgments on criminal news. We don't know enough to know the answer, so there's no point in knee jerk reactions.
Joel Was Right
Member
Yeah but we both know losing our better players and not replacing them is the more likely outcome considering the trend of the past 5 years. I think we're a decent side. In regards to tomorrow, I'd like to see Chamberlain start and give some game time to Ryo
The_Hitcher89
Member
odd_morsel, there are a lot of things to be worried about to be honest.
The way we often play
The goals we're incapable of scoring
The service, especially when Carroll plays
Carroll himself
Downing being awful
Adam being average
Henderson playing every minute
Kuyt still getting plenty of minutes
Maxi being frozen out
Surplus of defenders on the bench game after game
Shipping Meireles out for the sake of a few grand a week
Abysmal home record
Kenny's status making him immune to criticism amongst certain fans
I think we'll be alright in the long run, but our progress has been slowed, if not reversed by our signingsbar Suarez and Enrique (and Coates I suppose)
The way we often play
The goals we're incapable of scoring
The service, especially when Carroll plays
Carroll himself
Downing being awful
Adam being average
Henderson playing every minute
Kuyt still getting plenty of minutes
Maxi being frozen out
Surplus of defenders on the bench game after game
Shipping Meireles out for the sake of a few grand a week
Abysmal home record
Kenny's status making him immune to criticism amongst certain fans
I think we'll be alright in the long run, but our progress has been slowed, if not reversed by our signingsbar Suarez and Enrique (and Coates I suppose)
Have you guys read or seen Moneyball?
Major spoilers to follow, but it's based on a true story so the information is very public
I'm not saying the situation is exactly congruent to either Pool or me Arse and I'm not suggesting that the solution is to play Seb Coates out of position as a right winger. But what is congruent with Moneyball's narrative is that the fans and press are likely to be blatantly wrong about what the solution, or even the real problem is. So what's the point of slagging off a team of professionals as if we know better?
I understand frustration - anyone who has ever played against Stoke City does. But let's have some perspecive
Major spoilers to follow, but it's based on a true story so the information is very public
There's a part where Billy Beane is trying to force Art Howe (the coach) to play Mark Hatteburg out of position at first base. Until then their record was absolutely horrendous.
The fans and the press were all slating the Oakland A's and Billy Beane's managing, claiming that the only reason they had managed even their meager 2 or 3 wins was because of the coaching of Art Howe. Eventually, Bean trades away all the players in front of Hatteburg, so Howe had no choice but to follow Bean's insistence and play Hattie at first base. The result? The A's break the record for longest win-streak in baseball history.
Who got the credit for this from the press and fans? Art Howe.
The fans and the press were all slating the Oakland A's and Billy Beane's managing, claiming that the only reason they had managed even their meager 2 or 3 wins was because of the coaching of Art Howe. Eventually, Bean trades away all the players in front of Hatteburg, so Howe had no choice but to follow Bean's insistence and play Hattie at first base. The result? The A's break the record for longest win-streak in baseball history.
Who got the credit for this from the press and fans? Art Howe.
I'm not saying the situation is exactly congruent to either Pool or me Arse and I'm not suggesting that the solution is to play Seb Coates out of position as a right winger. But what is congruent with Moneyball's narrative is that the fans and press are likely to be blatantly wrong about what the solution, or even the real problem is. So what's the point of slagging off a team of professionals as if we know better?
I understand frustration - anyone who has ever played against Stoke City does. But let's have some perspecive
Oh agreed. We lost the best attacking midfielder in the game, imo, in Cesc Fabregas and we basically done nothing about it. We handed the reins to Aaron Ramsey, whom I rate highly, and he is coming along nicely but Aaron is not in the same league as Fabregas and the only reason we purchased Arteta was because of the long term injury to Wilshere. But without Fabregas running the show we cannot play the same way, it's not possible with our current crop of players, but maybe Ramsey will improve to the point he will be okay to handle it? I don't know, time will tell. I am satisfied with Aarons progress though, provided he sticks around long term and doesn't quit on us.
As for the loss of Nasri, it would have been interesting had he stayed because he would be playing every week running our midfield and it would have been interesting to see how he went but he choose to go for the money.
I would like to see Chamberlain take over from Arshavin (who should be sold) and I don't know much about Ryo because he never gets to play. The Chamberlain situation is quite frustrating because he was our highest signed player in the off season and he is not starting but we are playing players who are low on confidence, not performing, not helping much but we are playing them in the hopes they magically come good and gain their confidence back? Annoying. We only have Park for 2 years but he is not playing, instead we are playing Chamakh who is woefully out of touch and form.
Gervinho needs to work on his finishing and he would be fantastic but Walcott is not doing enough and is wasteful in front of goal.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Surely the most important one?
If the fans are blind to the manager's wrongs (Arnie and Fry8 are the only one's I have seen criticise Kenny over team selection vs Stoke) then it will all go wrong eventually.
A better team would have exploited Liverpool's lack of vision vs Stoke and without Suarez Liverpool don't look anything like a top 4 team. Is it not fair to criticise Kenny's transfer dealings? £20m on Downing and £35m on Carroll? If Roy had spent £55m on duff players and looking at a 5-7th finish the fans would be calling for his head, why does Kenny get a free ride?
Hitcher I'm not suggesting that we don't have problems. I watched the same matches you did. But that's not my point.
(also I do not think Downing is shit. He's probably just as frustrated as anyone that it's not working out. He doesn't appear to be in sync with the team, but he's definitely not shit)
(also I do not think Downing is shit. He's probably just as frustrated as anyone that it's not working out. He doesn't appear to be in sync with the team, but he's definitely not shit)
The_Hitcher89
Member
Honestly, there's no excuse for some of our transfer dealings under Kenny and Commoli. Its especially infuriating as we were so good in the second half of last season. The fact of the matter is, Kenny's gonna have to walk into John Henry's office at some point and ask for even more money to make up for the money he's pretty much wasted (unless some drastic and inexplicable improvements occur) in the last year. And that'll make for one hell of an awkward meeting.
And yes, I'm aware of the fact that Kenny is unlikely to actually have to ask for transfer funds like that
I appreciate that we're all a bit pissed off, but a lot of this is stuff that's been boiling up under the surface for a while now, even when we win there are plenty of things to be critical of. I think 6th is the bare minimum, and a Carling or FA Cup wouldn't go amiss. We're a good team, but with better transfers and more ballsy tactics, we could be a great team. Look at our defensive record. We should be looking at that as the platform to attack and turn 1 point into 3 points. Instead Kenny seems to treat it like an entirely seperate part of the team, who's only effect is to turn 0 points into 1 point, jobs a good'un. Defenders are only replaced by defenders, regardless of circumstance. I'd like to see that change as well.
Honestly, there's no excuse for some of our transfer dealings under Kenny and Commoli. Its especially infuriating as we were so good in the second half of last season. The fact of the matter is, Kenny's gonna have to walk into John Henry's office at some point and ask for even more money to make up for the money he's pretty much wasted (unless some drastic and inexplicable improvements occur) in the last year. And that'll make for one hell of an awkward meeting.
And yes, I'm aware of the fact that Kenny is unlikely to actually have to ask for transfer funds like that
How on earth do you know that things went down as you assume? How do you know it wasn't John Henry who said "we want you to buy young British players who have high statistical value?"
And what about Jose Enrique, Seb Coates and Jordan Henderson, Craig Bellamy? All of them have been great (Henderson is more debatable, but I personally love his footballing style)
The_Hitcher89
Member
I don't see what possible reason Henry would have for imposing that on Kenny. I can however see why Kenny's 'British first' policy (assuming it exists) would appeal to him. If Kenny was told who he could and couldn't try and buy based ontheir nationality, then our infrastructure is the hypothetical 'disaster-zone' as far as boards and Directors of Football go
For what its worth, I think Henderson will be a star in 2 years time. Coates is too early to tell (looks promising though,) Enrique is great, and Bellamy is fantastic when he's available.
A club is also a business and there are new rules in place for financial fair play. It could very well be that the list of potential transfers was hampered by these restrictions.
The_Hitcher89
Member
I thought we already had enough Brits though? Gerrard, Carragher, Johnson, Kelly, Spearing, Flanagan, Robinson, Carroll, Bellamy. Would that have been enough, my memory of that rule is a little shady?
Liverpools league record at home under Hodgson is now better than their record at home under Dalgish.
And people wanted Hodgson gone.
TBH i dont think Liverpool will be buying any new players, the owners arent mega rich and simply dont have the funds to repair the dud signings they did.
And people wanted Hodgson gone.
TBH i dont think Liverpool will be buying any new players, the owners arent mega rich and simply dont have the funds to repair the dud signings they did.
The_Hitcher89
Member
Always makes me laugh when people find stats to make Kenny look in any way as incompetent as the tittish buffoon that is Roy Hodgson. For a second I think, 'shit, things are that bad huh?' Then I remember after about a split second that we'd have to go a long, long, looooooong way down to even approach the shite that he was serving up week-in week-out. I'd rather have Tony Adams than bring back Hodgson
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