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[cartoon_soldier]

Sullivan's long game argument is just a continuation of one of the most annoying Obama memes: that he's some master strategist who plays 11 dimensional chess, setting the board in his favor for the future. Yet most of what Obama has done has been reactionary or politically expedient. He is far more concerned with short term political victories than long term policy wins, especially if the victory is "bipartisan." Let's not forget this is the same guy who would have raised Medicare eligibility ages if Boehner's idiot caucus didn't torpedo the deal.

He may be a personal liberal. His background certainly suggests he cares deeply about the poor, disadvantaged/how government can help, race issues, etc. But from a governing perspective he's always been more interested in striking deals than being some ideologue or long-game player. To make matters worse, he treats government like it's the Harvard Law Review where allowing your conservative peers to have more articles in an issue might result in them working together with you in the future, networking, etc. He genuinely seems incapable of recognizing he's dealing with an opposition that does not want anything to do with him, and all the horse changing in the world won't change that. Personally I think this may be a glimpse into his personality and childhood.

This is a guy whose own father abandoned him, his mother was distant for much of his life as well. When you add in the racial identity confusion I think we're looking at a person who was not loved as a child to a level many children were by their parents, and has therefore attempted to find acceptance through joining close communities, always being the giver, constantly trying to impress or be accepted by others, etc. Boehner has taken advantage of that for four years, and Obama seems perfectly fine with it. The same could be said of Joe Lieberman and some other people anyone else would shitcan asap.

I have to completely disagree here, mainly because, did Obama have to compromise with Boehner? Yes. What instances? START Treaty not passing = bad bad bad, Debt Limit not hiked = meltdown, government shutdown not averted longterm = meltdown. And actually if you get into the details of some of these compromises you realize the end result was not as bad as the headline screamed. Really, would things have been better if we had ended 2010 with no START, no extension of UE benefits and other things but a repeal of ALL Bush tax cuts (not just for the wealthy)?

Should the Stimulus have been 1.2 trillion dollars? Yes. Is 800 billion Stimulus bad? No.
Should HCR have had Public Option? Yes. Well actually, Obama still supported the PO in his last speech to Congress but Nelson and Lieberman killed it in the Senate. Same, are we better of with HCR or with the same system that existed in 2008?

Sullivan has given great examples where Obama has let the Change not come from top-down because Republicans were toxic to anything Obama suggested. DADT is a perfect example of that.

Obama is out to please everybody to be accepted? That is just BS. If that was the case the deals with the Republican house would have been much much worse.

 

[dcdobson]

Sullivan's long game argument...

But how can this be reconciled with his decision to take on the Clinton machine back in 07?

 

[RDreamer]

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...Wisconsin-set-to-count-recall-petitions-videoLooks like the Walker recall is underway?

Good. He needs to get out. He's a scuzbag who's done nothing good for Wisconsin.

It's going to be a knock down drag out fight the whole way, though. I feel like the national fight between left and right is nothing compared to what's going on in Wisconsin. This is personal for people. Every move on either end is scrutinized and demonized. There were a lot of threats of violence and other unlawful things during the recall signature collection process, too. Saw quite a few news stories of Walker supporters threatening recallers. My dad, a hopeless conservative, is in on this shit too. He joked to me that he flipped a bunch of them off and he's always angry as hell whenever he sees them. A lot of it seems to come down to teacher's unions, too. People like my dad vilify the teachers beyond belief.

I also just made the mistake of look at a news link from Fox 6 that announced this story on Facebook (I don't follow Fox, my cousin liked it so I saw it), and good lord the amount of vitriol in there is insane. In fact in almost any recall thing on Facebook it's filled with people from the right just spewing hatred against the "libs" and "union thugs." They're also decrying the cost to the tax payers. Some are saying that it's a waste of taxpayer money and people should have to pay $10 when they sign to pay for it. Some are saying recalls aren't for this. Most of them say that these signatures have to be filled with fraud, saying things like "Mickey Mouse" and "Hitler" must have been busy (never mind that things like that would have likely been put in there by supporters... why in fuck's name would a person wanting a recall ever sign that)... Then we've even got people saying getting only 1 million signatures is pathetic given how widespread the recall was. There should have been more! Hilarious since this is one of the biggest recalls in US history.

What's especially funny is seeing Walker and his supporters going against recalls in general. Especially funny since Walker became Milwaukee County Executive from a recall election, and he even said this specifically back then:

"You… know the folks that were angry about this started a recall and they were told they needed to collect 73,000 signatures in sixty days,” said Walker. “Well, not hundreds, not thousands, but tens of thousands of ordinary people did an extraordinary thing. They stood up and took their government back. In less than thirty days they collected more than 150,000 signatures. It was at that moment I realized the real emotion on display in my county wasn’t just about anger. You see, if it had been about anger, it would have been about people checking out and moving out or giving up. But instead what happened was really amazing. You saw people standing up shoulder to shoulder, neighbor to neighbor and saying we want our government back. And in doing so the real emotion on display was about hope. Today I see a lot of the same emotions on display here in Wisconsin and all across our great country."

Well now the tables are turned and I'll be happy when that idiot is out on his ass.

 

[Skiptastic]

"And then I get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much.”"

Really Mitt, a $250,000 fee every few months is chump change.

I wonder if he meant "not very often", but that's probably me giving the benefit of the doubt.

 

[BotoxAgent]

This is a guy whose own father abandoned him, his mother was distant for much of his life as well. When you add in the racial identity confusion I think we're looking at a person who was not loved as a child to a level many children were by their parents, and has therefore attempted to find acceptance through joining close communities, always being the giver, constantly trying to impress or be accepted by others, etc. Boehner has taken advantage of that for four years, and Obama seems perfectly fine with it. The same could be said of Joe Lieberman and some other people anyone else would shitcan asap.

da hell is this garbage?

 

[jamesinclair]

I never got feedback on this ad suggestion.

Would it work? Why not?

I have a couple million to blow, and I figured it would be worth it for the lols

Spoiler

yeah right

So Ive just thought of the perfect ad....

During the debate, there was a bit where Newt was attacking Romney for the PAC lying ads. I think Romney came off really bad, as he looked remarkably insincere when he said "not my problem, I cant control it".

Newt got off a great close with "he cant control his own ads and you want him as president?"

So its time to exploit that

Well imagine the next PAC ad in South Carolina

Context: 27.9% Black state
Context: Crazy right nutjobs in audience



----


Ad begins in scary format. Black and white, ominous music, serious announcer etc


"If Newt Gringich had his way, american society would return to the day of race riots"
*show Newt smiling and then flash to angry black men setting fires and such, historical imagery*
*lightening*
"If Barack Obama remains president, we will become a society where all it takes to succeed, is to not be white"
*show white unemployed people, show minorities using an express lane to get jobs or whatever*
-ad switches to positive mode, full color, happy announcer etc-
"But not if you pick Mtt Romney"
*romney smiling, waving, flags blowing etc*
"Romney likes things just as they are today, where minorities are treated fair, but not too fair"
*show minority woman smiling as she passes over a mcdonalds meal to a white businessman*
"Vote Mitt Romney, for an equal, positive america"


----

Who loses?

Newt: he supports race riots for petes sake

Romney: Doesnt matter how many times he says hes not involved, hes so slimy that people wont believe him, the ad is pro romney after all. And its racist.

The GOP: Did you see those insanely racist ads theyre running? Whod vote for THAT party? Vote for Cain in the primary!

PACs: Suddenly it would be very hard to support them



It would be wonderful.

 

[markatisu]

I never said Hispanics would abandon Obama, I argued they might stay home given the inaction on issues they care about. As we get closer to the election those moderate numbers should slowly reverse, assuming the economy grows slowly/stagnates

Decent poll for Obama I suppose

Hispanics will never stay home, that would be a vote for sure in the other direction.

Non-Movement on immigration issues does not equal voter apathy and a nod towards harsher immigration laws. They would almost vote for Obama because they feel he would be kinder toward them then Romney/GOP controlled government (Well except Cubans).

Not to mention sociologically speaking Hispanics as a group (as jumbled as group as they are) tend to vote because they feel its their duty, its youth and the black vote that has apathy....that is where your argument is better oriented.

 

[speculawyer]

Hansen who runs the GISS (NASA) has little influence? The guy who controls hundreds of millions of dollars in research money every year? McKibbin who was a key figure in getting the Keystone XL overturned has little influence? Okay.

Yes. Hansen is a 70 year old guy that runs some minor NASA division. McKibbin is some activist with even less influence. "Keystone XL overturned"? They merely delayed it in order to use it as a bargaining chip. But I guess I should give Obama credit since he has created an illusion of power that scares you.

Hansen probably should have more influence . . . but he has very little.

 

[RustyNails]

This is a guy whose own father abandoned him, his mother was distant for much of his life as well. When you add in the racial identity confusion I think we're looking at a person who was not loved as a child to a level many children were by their parents, and has therefore attempted to find acceptance through joining close communities, always being the giver, constantly trying to impress or be accepted by others, etc. Boehner has taken advantage of that for four years, and Obama seems perfectly fine with it. The same could be said of Joe Lieberman and some other people anyone else would shitcan asap.

Please do a self-ban til November.

Besides, Obama's mom never abandoned him.

 

[neutralgamer02]

Sullivan's long game argument is just a continuation of one of the most annoying Obama memes: that he's some master strategist who plays 11 dimensional chess, setting the board in his favor for the future. Yet most of what Obama has done has been reactionary or politically expedient. He is far more concerned with short term political victories than long term policy wins, especially if the victory is "bipartisan." Let's not forget this is the same guy who would have raised Medicare eligibility ages if Boehner's idiot caucus didn't torpedo the deal.

He may be a personal liberal. His background certainly suggests he cares deeply about the poor, disadvantaged/how government can help, race issues, etc. But from a governing perspective he's always been more interested in striking deals than being some ideologue or long-game player. To make matters worse, he treats government like it's the Harvard Law Review where allowing your conservative peers to have more articles in an issue might result in them working together with you in the future, networking, etc. He genuinely seems incapable of recognizing he's dealing with an opposition that does not want anything to do with him, and all the horse changing in the world won't change that. Personally I think this may be a glimpse into his personality and childhood.

This is a guy whose own father abandoned him, his mother was distant for much of his life as well. When you add in the racial identity confusion I think we're looking at a person who was not loved as a child to a level many children were by their parents, and has therefore attempted to find acceptance through joining close communities, always being the giver, constantly trying to impress or be accepted by others, etc. Boehner has taken advantage of that for four years, and Obama seems perfectly fine with it. The same could be said of Joe Lieberman and some other people anyone else would shitcan asap.

This is ridiculous. Obama really hasn't compromised that much with republicans except when he was forced to. It just happens to be that you have to compromise with the opposite party to get most things done. If he treated republicans like crap it would be worse than now and absolutely nothing would get done.

Also, the analysis of Obama's upbringing to explain his actions today as a president is pretty pathetic.

I swear I haven't seen you post anything that is remotely correct when it comes to predicting things. From looking at past posts about you predicting Hillary is going to steamroll Obama in 2008 to this whole Romney is definitely going to win in 2012. It just seems like you see the political landscape in a warped way.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Psychology definitively isn't your strong point. No offense.

I mean I agree with you PD(for the most part), but really?

I can't be the only person who has connected these dots

 

[cartoon_soldier]

I can't be the only person who has connected these dots

No, I am sure many on the right look at Obama's upbringing and connect the dots to some very different results

Spoiler

Obama hates America

 

[Invisible_Insane]

That was an analysis worthy of Chris Matthews.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Every time I start to think that maybe I should change my tune on Christie, I start to realize why I loathed him in the first place.

He's somehow created this national perception that New Jersey's education is irreversibly broken, despite the fact that it has/had one of the best public school education systems in the country (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...t-kids-from-massachusetts-to-mississippi.html).

I really don't get how Aborted Walrus Fetus can think he is doing a good job in New Jersey when a large part of his strategy is based on fighting the only thing working in the state.

 

[KingK]

Obama apologists remind me of Doran Martell apologists from ASOIAF. (only half joking).

 

[PhoenixDark]

Obama apologists remind me of Doran Martell apologists from ASOIAF. (only half joking).

This is brilliant ha

 

[Frank the Great]

Every time I start to think that maybe I should change my tune on Christie, I start to realize why I loathed him in the first place.

He's somehow created this national perception that New Jersey's education is irreversibly broken, despite the fact that it has/had one of the best public school education systems in the country (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...t-kids-from-massachusetts-to-mississippi.html).

I really don't get how Aborted Walrus Fetus can think he is doing a good job in New Jersey when a large part of his strategy is based on fighting the only thing working in the state.

yeah but upper and middle class families' property taxes go towards poor urban school districts, that means the system is broken

 

[Stinkles]

yeah but upper and middle class families' property taxes go towards poor urban school districts, that means the system is broken

Fix it with vouchers!

 

[airmangataosenai]

Bububut he's just like Obama!

Gotta love how he's still pretending to have no influence over that SuperPAC.

 

[Snake]

Obama apologists remind me of Doran Martell apologists from ASOIAF. (only half joking).

In fact, Obama is Tyrion Lannister. Obama-bashing liberals are a bunch of Cersei's, always obsessed and paranoid about what Obama is or is not doing, always blaming every one of their problems on shadows and whispers that they have imagined. Obama is simultaneously an incompetent to be mocked and underestimated, and at the same time he has an all-powerful ability to do everything wrong.

Spoiler

Also joking.

 

[ToxicAdam]

'Every President in recent history' is simultaneously an incompetent to be mocked and underestimated, and at the same time he has an all-powerful ability to do everything wrong.

Just saying ..

 

[The Librarian]

Ezra Klein has an interview up with Senator Wyden over SOPA and PIPA.

Also, Google has plans to participate in tomorrow's blackout, but they're not shutting off. There'll be something on the home page, though.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Ideally Obama would've liked to get the reforms passed in his and Democrat's visions, but realistially, it just came down to Congress and pandering to the right.

EDIT-Dax is acting like that one poster who posted news from dozens of web blogs, and everyone got annoyed.

 

[The Librarian]

EDIT-Dax is acting like that one poster who posted news from dozens of web blogs, and everyone got annoyed.

Sweet!

 

[KtSlime]

Ezra Klein has an interview up with Senator Wyden over SOPA and PIPA.

Also, Google has plans to participate in tomorrow's blackout, but they're not shutting off. There'll be something on the home page, though.

That's too bad. It would really scare the shit out of people if they couldn't google for a day.

 

[leroidys]

Johnathan Cohn is up with a piece detailing that Romney's tax plan will require deeper cuts than the Ryan plan.

Via Fact Checker, Romney is back with +100K jobs claim. From his latest ad in SC claiming he created "thousands of jobs," now he says he's created over 120K, including jobs created after he left Bain.

I haven't really read too deeply into these claims, but he is so far removed from the jobs he "created". I mean I don't care that he was at Bain, but these claims are stupid. You could use the same logic to say that the U.S. Government has created billions of jobs because they ensure every dollar spent in our economy.

And anyway, who gives a shit? Do the right wingers want him to start taking over businesses and making them more efficient as POTUS?

 

[Clevinger]

EDIT-Dax is acting like that one poster who posted news from dozens of web blogs, and everyone got annoyed.

Didn't that guy post like multiple full articles complete with pictures and stuff every post? I don't see anything wrong with giving a line or so per news item like Dax is doing.

 

[Suikoguy]

Didn't that guy post like multiple full articles complete with pictures and stuff every post? I don't see anything wrong with giving a line or so per news item like Dax is doing.

Yeah, and it helps keep discussion moving, especially if the post is during a rut.

 

[RustyNails]

Anybody see the poll that put Perry in third place in the Texas GOP primary?

It's the PPP poll that shows Obama with 5 pt lead over Romney. Ricky is trailing Romney and Newt (lol) in TX.

I'm so content at Rick Perry wagon crashing and burning on the national stadium, it's like I don't even care about the elections anymore. He's probably firing dudes left and right, especially the ones close to him who goaded him into running.

"I don't have a brain. That's why I hired you numbnuts to think for me! FIRED!"

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Texas seems to produce some crazy politicians that run for POTUS. Af far as stupidity goes: Perry>Bush>Paul.

 

[The Librarian]

From what I've seen on the tubes today, there's been a lot of discussion about Newt's comments about blacks and such at last night's debate; i.e., whether they were racist or not.

I think Josh Marshall summed it up well in a tweet of his: Newt's not a racist, he's just an "asshole across the board."

That's probably the likeliest explanation.

 

[Devolution]

Just saw parts of the debates on News Hour, there is a delicious irony in politicians bickering about so and so's super PAC ad lying about them.

 

[The Librarian]

Oh my God. Last night there was a special on NBC celebrating Betty White's 90th birthday, and there was a joke video about Obama writing to her demanding to see her long form birth certificate.

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/president-obama-sends-betty-white-90th-birt

 

[mckmas8808]

Romney VP will be VA gov Bob McDonnell

Not a terrible pick.

 

[teruterubozu]

From what I've seen on the tubes today, there's been a lot of discussion about Newt's comments about blacks and such at last night's debate; i.e., whether they were racist or not.

I think Josh Marshall summed it up well in a tweet of his: Newt's not a racist, he's just an "asshole across the board."

That's probably the likeliest explanation.

The dude has to be the most unlikeable sourpuss to ever run for president. Even Dole, Nixon and McCain had certain elements of charm.

 

[empty vessel]

From what I've seen on the tubes today, there's been a lot of discussion about Newt's comments about blacks and such at last night's debate; i.e., whether they were racist or not.

I think Josh Marshall summed it up well in a tweet of his: Newt's not a racist, he's just an "asshole across the board."

That's probably the likeliest explanation.

I don't have any qualms calling Newt a racist. I don't know why we're so scared to call people who express opinions with racist premises racists. I don't think it requires overt (or even conscious) hatred of any kind to be a racist. Newt believes blacks are inferior to whites, though he would never admit it, possibly not even to himself. In his mind, he may well want to help them (of course, only by demanding that they help themselves).

Newt recognizes that blacks are disproportionately poor, but doesn't think government aid is warranted because why? They do it to themselves. Blacks are just better at being poor than whites, because they, as a group, lack the work ethic that whites, as a group, have.

Incidentally, Kosmo also believes this. Unfortunately, most or all ideological conservatives do. It's a major problem and we should stop pussyfooting around it.

 

[rohlfinator]

From what I've seen on the tubes today, there's been a lot of discussion about Newt's comments about blacks and such at last night's debate; i.e., whether they were racist or not.

I think Josh Marshall summed it up well in a tweet of his: Newt's not a racist, he's just an "asshole across the board."

That's probably the likeliest explanation.

His comments are either a) ignorant, b) racist, or c) dog whistles for racists. I think we can likely rule out 'a' since Newt seems like he could easily get the facts on these issues if he cared to.

I don't believe any of these guys are racist in the "I hate black people" sense, but they all seem to have all-too-strong mental associations between certain races and laziness/welfare/poverty/etc.

 

[teruterubozu]

His comments are either a) ignorant, b) racist, or c) dog whistles for racists. I think we can likely rule out 'a' since Newt seems like he could easily get the facts on these issues if he cared to.

I don't believe any of these guys are racist in the "I hate black people" sense, but they all seem to have all-too-strong mental associations between certain races and laziness/welfare/poverty/etc.

Yeah well, equating a race with laziness is one of the cornerstones of racism.

 

[Plinko]

His comments are either a) ignorant, b) racist, or c) dog whistles for racists. I think we can likely rule out 'a' since Newt seems like he could easily get the facts on these issues if he cared to.

I don't believe any of these guys are racist in the "I hate black people" sense, but they all seem to have all-too-strong mental associations between certain races and laziness/welfare/poverty/etc.

This is my thought. They toe the line of, "Hey, I'm not a racist!" but still throw out those lines that get the racists on their feet and cheering.

 

[Admiral Bone to Pick]

Not a terrible pick.

The guy who just got elected governor in 2010?

 

[Aaron Strife]

What's the point in recalling Walker if they don't have a decent candidate to run against him? Unless Feingold changes his mind on running I don't see the point

Well, if you assume those 1 million who signed the petitions will all vote against Walker, that already puts a Democratic challenger close to Walker's vote total in 2010 (Walker got 1.1 million votes, Tom Barrett got about a million).

I never said Hispanics would abandon Obama, I argued they might stay home given the inaction on issues they care about.

I don't know. One would have assumed the same about Reid, but he beat the polls and won over Angle by six points on the back of Hispanic support. I think the anti-immigrant fever on the Republican side could turn them out for Obama.

The guy who just got elected governor in 2010?

He was elected in 09, but that's nuance. I could see it since Virginia governors can only serve one term (I think they can run for non-consecutive terms, but I'm not sure), so he's not like Christie who would probably rather have a good record as NJ governor when he runs in 2016, than be tied down by a potentially failed Romney ticket.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Quite frankly, nobody running for POTUS looks likeable.

 

[Divvy]

Quite frankly, nobody running for POTUS looks likeable.

What? What about Herman Cain?

 

[rohlfinator]

Yeah well, equating a race with laziness is one of the cornerstones of racism.

True, but in election season where making stuff up to appeal to a base is the status quo, I'm hesitant to assume that he sincerely believes that stuff. Not that it's impossible, though.

 

[Byakuya769]

This is a guy whose own father abandoned him, his mother was distant for much of his life as well. When you add in the racial identity confusion I think we're looking at a person who was not loved as a child to a level many children were by their parents, and has therefore attempted to find acceptance through joining close communities, always being the giver, constantly trying to impress or be accepted by others, etc. Boehner has taken advantage of that for four years, and Obama seems perfectly fine with it. The same could be said of Joe Lieberman and some other people anyone else would shitcan asap.

What the fuck? You cannot be serious.

 

[PhoenixDark]

What the fuck? You cannot be serious.

It's just a theory. I haven't really seen much of anything from Obama to suggest he's some political mastermind, in fact I think he's pretty much made mistake after mistake since entering office. And nearly every mistake boils down to a child-like inability to recognize the other side wants nothing to do with him, period

 

[Particle Physicist]

There are a lot of things to criticize Mitt about, but the fact that he's being vilified for being rich is idiotic. Republicans are usually high on slander, but the Democrats sure are catching up.

Uh, he's being vilified for being rich WHILE wanting taxes cut on rich and raised on the poorer. You keep leaving certain aspects out.

 

[Invisible_Insane]

The guy who just got elected governor in 2010?

Virginia has a one-term limit on the office of Governor.

 

[Plinko]

Here we go:

Newt Gingrich urges rivals to drop out, declares that a vote for Santorum or Perry is a vote for Romney

Buoyed by his strong debate performance in Myrtle Beach, Newt Gingrich has called his rivals to drop out of the race because "consolidating into a Gingrich candidacy" would "virtually guarantee victory" in the South Carolina primary and stop Mitt Romney becoming the Republican nominee.

Making the case to a crowd of almost 200 in an art gallery in the old railroad junction town of Florence, South Carolina he said: "If you look at the polling, I’m the only conservative who realistically has a chance to be the nominee.

"So any vote for Santorum or Perry in effect is a vote to allow Romney to become the nominee. Because we’ve got to bring conservatives together in order to stop him."

http://harndenblog.dailymail.co.uk/2012/01/newt-gingrich-declares.html

More at the link.

"Hey, guys--I'm not good enough to win this on my own, so you probably should drop out so I can get your voters."

What a slimeball Gingrich is.

 

[Stinkles]

It's just a theory. I haven't really seen much of anything from Obama to suggest he's some political mastermind, in fact I think he's pretty much made mistake after mistake since entering office. And nearly every mistake boils down to a child-like inability to recognize the other side wants nothing to do with him, period

You HONESTLY think Obama doesn't understand his position? You think he's a naive simpleton? And I am not even agreeing with your characterization, just wondering if you think Obama is an uncynical naif.