Diablo 3 Beta [Beta withdrawal underway!]

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I have been PM'd also a few months ago, and I only recognized that a few weeks ago.
I was so angry. Jeez. But, still no invite, and he said I was added! o_o"

My brother had to wait a few weeks as well before his account was updated with a Diablo 3 beta section.

For those PM'ing me asking the username of the Blizzard employee:
I won't give out his username or ask for him to flag your account. It seems to me that would be a pretty massive violation of his privacy.
 
Heh, I said back in September/October that the game still had a while to go before release. Not really surprised. That's alright...give it time. This game needs to have a good skill system, rune system, and itemization. It only gets one chance, so it needs to be right for release.

I wrote out this really long rant about how these new "changes" frustrate me but basically this upsets me.

Why must they even bother talking about release date windows and stuff when they are still changing the game on a fundamental level. Why do they keep getting peoples hopes up?

Honest question, but are these changes not something they could change in say, patches or just save for the inevitable expansion in a couple years? What about the next list of changes? Or the ones after that?

I love it that they are a company that has the privilege to keep critiquing their work but there has to be a point where it cannot be any more "perfect" and they actually start detracting from the overall quality of the game. This news worries me more than anything of what is to come in the future.

I am still excited as hell for this game though. :/

Not really. They can't do major changes after release, especially when real money is involved in the trading of items. They can certainly tweak things, but they need to have the system largely set in stone once the game releases.

Starcraft 2 went through a similar process, and there were some rather major changes during the beta (e.g. Infestor) as they figured out what worked best. Since release, most changes have been minor tweaks to the existing design.
 
Hmm, reading over that systems changes post...


This change makes the stats more intuitive and fixes some of the itemization issues we were running into. We want to make it clear that junk items aren’t worth picking up, and make it easy to identify other items as not for your character. We want to drop a ton of items, but to really pull off a sense of excitement when finding a great item, there needs to be non-optimal items, both for your class, and in general. By specifically targeting stats at classes, we can reduce the amount of item overlap, diversify our item pool, and create a cleaner, more exciting itemization system

I guess they needed a larger pool of trash items. This would stretch out the economy more and prolong gameplay.

I really liked the simplicity of just damage, +critical, and defense. Hm, I guess we'll see how this plays out.
 
Wow those are some massive changes. I guess we are looking at a late 2012 release now....

*sigh*

I'm at work and can't access the battlenet site (damn Websense). Could someone post these patch notes with sweeping changes so I can see what all the hubbub is about? Is it really as major as everyone makes it sound like?
 
I can't see it at work either, but going by the post above yours, it seems as though they're revamping the stats system, among other things. That's pretty major.

I'm glad they're focusing on what makes Diablo special: the excitement you get from finding good loot. That's what pretty much all other loot games lack.
 
Here you go:

While working on Diablo III we've been called out for messing around with systems too much, that the game is good as-is and we should just release it. I think that's a fair argument to make, but I also think it's incorrect. Our job isn't just to put out a game, it's to release the next Diablo game. No one will remember if the game is late, only if it's great. We trust in our ability to put out a great game, but we're not quite there yet. In addition to finishing and polishing the content of the game we're continuing to iterate on some of the core game systems. So all that said, I'd like to provide everyone an update on some of the systems we're currently working on.



We’re changing some of the systems we’ve gotten the most feedback on both internally and from the beta test, including crafting, items, core attributes, and inventory. We’ll go over those changes and the reasons for them. In addition we’re working on major changes to the skill and rune systems that we’re not ready to talk about, but I promise you we can’t possibly ship without a finished skill and rune system. :)



Let’s start off small: Scrolls of Identification are no longer in the game. Unidentified items and the act of identifying them is still very much part of the game, but now when obtaining an unidentified item you'll simply right click it, a short cast timer will occur as your character examines the item, and it will become identified. We love the double-discovery of finding a present and then unwrapping it, but we don't think it requires a physical item you have to find and keep in your bags to get the same effect. From now on you'll just be able to inherently identify all your items, no need to carry scrolls. Your character in Diablo III is just that badass now.



We’re also moving the fifth quick slot button, which is becoming a dedicated potion button. A dedicated potion button is something we went back and forth on throughout development. Recently it became apparent that players need to be aware of their potions for emergency situations. Our combat model doesn’t promote or even allow chugging potions in rapid succession, but they’re certainly useful when you run into a string of bad luck with health globes, or if you just get in over your head. This is one of our newest changes, so the button and mechanics don’t actually function in beta Patch 10, but that’s our intent and you’ll be seeing it supported in future beta updates.



The design team is currently looking at systems and cleaning them up, removing any superfluous system objectives and those that are beyond fixing. Thus, we're removing the Mystic artisan. As we look at the big picture, the Mystic simply wasn’t adding anything to our customization system. Enhancement was really just the socket and gem system with a different name, and it would prolong the release of the game even further to go back to the drawing board and differentiate it, so we’ll revisit the Mystic and enhancements at a later time. Removing her from the game took some time, but it’s nowhere near the efforts that would be required to flesh out a better customization system. We hope she’ll be able to join your caravan in the future, but for now we’re going to focus on the extensive customization options the game already offers.



We're also looking at systems we’ve created and making sure that the rationale that brought us to these designs still makes sense. The Stone of Recall, for instance, has a short cast time and allows you to return to town. Early on we said we wouldn't have town portals, as they introduced too many combat exploits, but we were able to resolve them. Because we have the Stone of Recall, though, we began to evaluate systems that were originally implemented to deal with the exclusion of town portals.



So we've decided to remove the Cauldron of Jordan and Nephalem Cube. They were implemented to allow for salvaging and selling items when there was no quick and easy way to return to town. Now that the Stone of Recall exists, we found that keeping the Cauldron and Cube in the game detracted from the benefits of returning to town to sell items, salvage, craft, and interact with the townsfolk. It’s a good idea to break up combat so that players have a moment to evaluate their gear and crafting options before venturing back out. In addition, we've decided to just call it what it is and the Stone of Recall is now Town Portal, and is integrated directly onto the skill bar UI.

The Blacksmith artisan will now salvage items. With removal of the Cube we needed some mechanic in town that allowed you to salvage your items, and it just makes sense for the Blacksmith to offer it.

One other important change is that common (white) items will no longer be salvageable. We found that it caused a few itemization issues, but mostly this is due to a general philosophy shift on the importance of items. Previously, our thinking was that when an item dropped it should always be useful to you in some way, either the stats could be an improvement for you, or in the case of white items you could break it down and craft something better. Through a lot of play testing we have come full circle to the Diablo II methodology -- a lot of stuff that drops just isn’t worth picking up. Diablo II captured the loot piñata feel by dropping a lot of crap, mostly arrows and bolts, and we of course still very much want that feeling of item-explosions. To do that we need to be able to balance the value of items to how many we’re throwing at you.



This leads us to the last change I'll be detailing today:



We're changing core character attributes to Strength, Dexterity, Intellect, and Vitality, and the benefits each stat provides is being broken down as:


Strength
+Barbarian damage

+Armor
Dexterity
+Demon Hunter damage

+Monk damage

+Dodge
Intellect
+Wizard damage

+Witch Doctor damage

+Health from globes
Vitality
+Health


We're dropping Defense, Attack, and Precision as attributes, Armor is taking over for what Defense used to provide, +Physical Resist will take over for Armor, and +Chance to Crit will fill in for Precision. Obviously these stat changes are one of the bigger systems changes we're currently working on as they have far reaching requirements to re-itemize and balance the game.



This change makes the stats more intuitive and fixes some of the itemization issues we were running into. We want to make it clear that junk items aren’t worth picking up, and make it easy to identify other items as not for your character. We want to drop a ton of items, but to really pull off a sense of excitement when finding a great item, there needs to be non-optimal items, both for your class, and in general. By specifically targeting stats at classes, we can reduce the amount of item overlap, diversify our item pool, and create a cleaner, more exciting itemization system.



By and large these changes have little impact on which items you’re going to want. The item hunt has always been based on secondary stats and affixes, and we’re working hard to ensure build diversity is as large as possible by getting as many affixes into the game as possible (adding more item affixes is also something we’ve been working on). Simply including affixes that augment specific skills greatly expands the itemization pool and build possibilities.



Moving on, with the removal of the Cauldron of Jordan, Nephalem Cube, and by moving Town Portal to the skill panel, we're now displaying character stats directly on the inventory UI. Now you can see your stats go up and down as you try on different items. All the same info is available; we’re just streamlining the UI, making it more useful. It might seem insignificant but we're pleased with the results.

All of these are changes that will in one way or another be seen in the latest beta patch, and so we hope that those of you with access please try them out and let us know what you think in the Beta Feedback forum.



There’s a lot of work left to be done, though. We’re constantly tuning and making balance changes; it’s a massive task. Some of these changes can be seen in the beta, like changes to item rarity, the levels at which we introduce affixes, and how many affixes enemies can roll up. Some you can’t see in the beta, like balancing the difficulty of the entire game for four different difficulty levels, adding tons of new affixes, creating legendary items, filling out crafting recipes and itemization, working on achievements, and implementing Battle.net features. We’re also working on a number of other large systems changes -- specifically with the skill and rune systems. We're not quite ready to share what those are just yet, but we look forward to being able to do so in the near future.



We want Diablo III to be the best game it can be when it launches. To get there, we're going to be iterating on designs we've had in place for a long time, making changes to systems you've spent a lot of time theorycrafting, and removing features you may have come to associate with the core of the experience. Our hope is that by embracing our iterative design process in which we question ourselves and our decisions, Diablo III won't just live up to our expectations, but will continue to do so a decade after it's released.


Jay Wilson is game director for Diablo III and the Inventor of Meat. He believes that Kate Beckinsale is the greatest actress that’s ever lived.
 
I was planning to make a serious |OT| for Diablo 3, but it might be fun lampooning the publicly known major changes or axed features as well...

I suppose it's just going to happen when you announce 4 years ahead of release.

Some of these changes seem okay, others I'm not so sure about, since I haven't had the beta. Many of them seem like relatively minor things with big, drastic solutions though. Cutting an entire artisan at this point? With all that art and story done?

Blizzard is known for polish and long release cycles, but Diablo 3 definitely at least seems like it has had at least a bit of a troubled development on the management side. I wish they would pull the trigger already.
 
Overall I have to say that I really like these changes. I understand that removing the cube and cauldron take a bit of the streamlining away, but the change makes the town and its npc's much more important and integral. I also really like the inclusion of the basic stats in the character panel. As far as the dedicated potion button, I'll reserve judgement.

Thus far, the ability to alter your UI or even certain keybindings for that matter lead me to believe that Blizzards knows how I need to play their game better than I do which I completely disagree with.
 
I'm very happy with the changes, specifically the return to Str, Dex, Int, Vit. I hated the stats they were previously using, the all inclusive Attack stat in particular. It made items seem very similar to one another, since that's the primary stat you were looking for on any piece.
 
Wow, that is quite a list of changes. They sound nowhere near release yet, seems like they just aren't happy with much of the game even at this point. Still, a lot of those changes sound positive, so I can't say that it appears like they are wasting time or nitpicking. Let's face it, they do have a lot to live up to with Diablo III. I mean, they did raise the bar quite high with Diablo II. It's a testament to that fact that even to this day there hasn't been a true game to dethrone it. Many have tried, some even came close, but none have surpassed it in it's genre. Those are tough shoes to fill. At the very least, it sounds like they realize that and want to knock this one out of the park.

Which, in the long run, is a very good thing for all of us.

Take your time Blizzard, do it right.








Torchlight 2 needs to come out ASAP!!!!
 
Really not happy with the sound of these changes. I liked being able to salvage my own items, I liked not having to portal back to town very often, I liked having every item drop be useful on some level, and I liked most items being good for most classes.

The quote about how "Diablo II captured the loot piñata feel by dropping a lot of crap" is particularly saddening. I didn't like it in Diablo II, I hated it in Torchlight, and I loved the feel of the Diablo III beta in comparison. (Torchlight continuously showered my screen with so much useless crap that it became the #1 reason I stopped playing. I wanted to play the game, not spend all my time sorting through endless mountains of loot.)

I'll try to keep an open mind until I have a chance to play with the changes, though.
 
The point is not to pick up every piece of loot you find.

I particularly like the fact that White items are no longer salvageable now. It was annoying to have to balance selling/salvaging of white items when it was unclear as to which was more profitable.
 
Any idea when this will start to get pushed to the beta?

Also it might be worthwhile to make a thread on it, I know it's relating directly to the beta but it's making it pretty clear that we won't be seeing a commercial release any time too soon.
 
Still don't see how this equates to a later release date. All of this could of easily been worked on all along internally.


There's two things that stood out to me that showed we weren't as close as we thought.

Obviously these stat changes are one of the bigger systems changes we're currently working on as they have far reaching requirements to re-itemize and balance the game.

They're still working on the stat changes and will have a significant amount of changes to make once it's complete.

There’s a lot of work left to be done, though.
 
Let's face it, they do have a lot to live up to with Diablo III. I mean, they did raise the bar quite high with Diablo II. It's a testament to that fact that even to this day there hasn't been a true game to dethrone it. Many have tried, some even came close, but none have surpassed it in it's genre.
Actually i disagree that many has tried, because i think its the most overlooked genre in gaming, there were less than 5 really great hack and slash games since Diablo 1 release and thats telling smth. Its funny that in 2012 we'll be getting 5 pretty high quality games from this genre [yes i count Borderlands 2 too :)].

I cant understand why, they scraped whole artisan, i was exited about enchantment thing. At least they wont throw that work away and we will get it later. Lets just hope so that not in expansion pack, but for free...

Starcraft 2 went through a similar process, and there were some rather major changes during the beta (e.g. Infestor) as they figured out what worked best. Since release, most changes have been minor tweaks to the existing design.
Starcraft 1 and its expansion pack was same, but Diablo 2 and LoD wasnt. I wouldnt compare it equally ;) BTW they are also scrapping many basic systems in WoW right now from what i heard.

I'm afraid that they dont know what they are doing anymore, they walking in every direction and trying everything, just find out that somethings has problem on its own after few months of testing. No shit Blizzard, thats how its works! Your game wont be perfect and wont be balanced, just release it and get real feedback from players.
 
Really not happy with the sound of these changes. I liked being able to salvage my own items, I liked not having to portal back to town very often, I liked having every item drop be useful on some level, and I liked most items being good for most classes.

The quote about how "Diablo II captured the loot piñata feel by dropping a lot of crap" is particularly saddening. I didn't like it in Diablo II, I hated it in Torchlight, and I loved the feel of the Diablo III beta in comparison. (Torchlight continuously showered my screen with so much useless crap that it became the #1 reason I stopped playing. I wanted to play the game, not spend all my time sorting through endless mountains of loot.)

I'll try to keep an open mind until I have a chance to play with the changes, though.

I really disliked this about Torchlight too. I'm not sure, but I think the point is to make more of the useless crap white items though - as in completely useless except for vendoring. Torchlight made it rain (more of a downfall really) with green and blue items, devaluing magic items altogether. With Diablo, I think they intend it to be more of a stratified hierarchy, which feels better. Something that makes even more mundane magic items special.
 
Yeah, I don't expect it to be a problem. As long as they have something similar to the Diablo II balance everything will be fine. I don't expect Blizzard to make the same mistake Torchlight did.

I did like the old Diablo III beta feel, though. I started a couple fresh, untwinked Diablo II characters and played them side-by-side with the Diablo III beta, and I just plain preferred the way loot drops felt in Diablo III.
 
I'm afraid that they dont know what they are doing anymore, they walking in every direction and trying everything, just find out that somethings has problem on its own after few months of testing. No shit Blizzard, thats how its works! Your game wont be perfect and wont be balanced, just release it and get real feedback from players.

They are getting feedback from players. They've also recently been working on the itemization. That, along with the feedback is what tipped them off that the existing systems just don't work as well as they had hoped. The existing stat mechanic is terrible, as it makes many items feel samey and not special in any way, since all classes are essentially going for the same stat: Attack. It was really telling when the best weapons I could find for my Wizard were swords and not wands, since sword had much higher attack stats.
 
They are getting feedback from players. They've also recently been working on the itemization. That, along with the feedback is what tipped them off that the existing systems just don't work as well as they had hoped. The existing stat mechanic is terrible, as it makes many items feel samey and not special in any way, since all classes are essentially going for the same stat: Attack. It was really telling when the best weapons I could find for my Wizard were swords and not wands, since sword had much higher attack stats.

Mhm, the changes they are making are necessary and are clear reactions from Beta testing feedback.

I know everyone is frothing at the bit for this game, but just let Blizzard do what they do.
 
I was also flagged by the same incredibly nice Samaritan, I seriously thank you so much. this is why I love NeoGAF, it's one of the nicest communities I've been in. :)

However, same as Fonds I am not going to give anyone their nickname, don't bother messaging me about it as I also find that it'd be an invasion of privacy.
 
I was also flagged by the same incredibly nice Samaritan, I seriously thank you so much. this is why I love NeoGAF, it's one of the nicest communities I've been in. :)

However, same as Fonds I am not going to give anyone their nickname, don't bother messaging me about it as I also find that it'd be an invasion of privacy.

I'm in the same boat. I'm be checking battle.net TWICE as much now that the offer has been extended, but no usernames will be given out.
 
I like the guts it takes for them to change all these "Iconic features" they implemented. Nothing is harder than to just remove whole parts of your game or features if you already made them and they actually work. I guess for blizzard it’s all touch and go on all the old and new systems.

The danger always lies in the how far are we willing to go to make it perfect. And there is always a person on your team that has a gut feeling that something just doesn't click. But we’ve seen these guys are trained (if not mastered) in the translation from gut feelings to actual math and features. So hopefully this doesn't mean the release date has shifted more than a few months.

Personally it’s always tough to see something that is up to your standards but just doesn't get released because it could be better. I guess they go for the “don’t settle for anything” approach. And I guess this just gives me some more time to be flagged.
 
Seeing how everything made in the blog post yesterday is already implemented in Patch 10 i still have hope for a late Q1/early Q2 release. i just want to get my hands on this already.
 
Seeing how everything made in the blog post yesterday is already implemented in Patch 10 i still have hope for a late Q1/early Q2 release.

That's actually a possibility I hadn't even considered, kudos for logical thinking! :)
The fact that remains though, is that some major game systems weren't touched upon yet in the blog post. Systems like runing etc.
 
That's actually a possibility I hadn't even considered, kudos for logical thinking! :)
The fact that remains though, is that some major game systems weren't touched upon yet in the blog post. Systems like runing etc.

The Rune system is something they've been constantly tweaking and i believe at one point you could destroy runes to get enhancing materials so now that the Mystic is gone there's a big question of what happens to excess runes you randomly find and don't want. Hope they finalize it and tell us whats going on soon.
 
Interesting changes.

I'm surprised they are making this many giant sweeping changes this late.

Bashiok said in a blue post recently that SCII went through the same late sweeping changes and the game still came out relatively quickly thereafter, therefore I'm still holding out hope for a release before this summer.

Realistically middle of the year, best case scenario late March/early April, worst case scenario 2013, hopes and dreams scenario February.
 
Just fyi, after our mutual benefactor flagged me it took a good 2-3 weeks, so be patient even after he gives the word.

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Tristram. It's safe here.
 
Bashiok said in a blue post recently that SCII went through the same late sweeping changes and the game still came out relatively quickly thereafter, therefore I'm still holding out hope for a release before this summer.

Realistically middle of the year, best case scenario late March/early April, worst case scenario 2013, hopes and dreams scenario February.

I would say March would be the very earliest (though still seeming unlikely). Especially if they haven't gone gold.

Expect at least a month turnaround between release date announcement and launch.
 
How do you "get flagged" for the beta?

Well there are several ways to get into the beta.

There are contests here and there....
There is the applying for beta with the waiting game...
There is being friendly and lucky and someone might notice you here...

There is no quick and direct way yet (something like friend codes or stuff)

Once you get "flagged" for beta there is another waiting game on when you're on the actual beta list. These go in waves aswell.
 
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