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[-Pyromaniac-]

If they do, they're either suicidal idiots or they learned nothing from the 3DS.

Nintendo is a hard one to predict. I think they will definitely act on what they learned when it comes to launch, but my question is whether or not there will be slowness, or will they hit all the stops hard for the whole year they have to themselves. That's the question. I'm sure the launch day itself will be better.

 

[Terrell]

And, at the time, that's exactly what people were saying about Sega with the

Spoiler

Dreamcast

.

Do I think it's likely? No. Do I think it's possible that 3rd parties will leave Nintendo in a similar lurch when the PS4 and 720 launch if they don't play their cards right? It could happen.

The only ones who thought that Sega could mitigate every disastrous choice they made between Sega CD and Dreamcast, ESPECIALLY the Saturn, were the desperately naive or the intentionally ignorant. 3rd-parties saw a company in dangerous financial trouble and they didn't have any hope in its staying power even if it WAS a success, with 3 more consoles on the horizon to sink their dollars into. As businesses, they saw the writing on the wall before any of us would admit that it was there, so desperately entrenched in the idea that a major player could NEVER bow out of the hardware arena (and despite this lesson, many gamers have RETURNED to this notion and think that hardware makers are running a gamer charity and not in it for a profit, hence cries that Sony can never die despite walking the razor's edge of oblivion for the past several years).

There's ZERO parallel to the Dreamcast scenario. ZERO.

 

[Christine]

Nintendo is a hard one to predict. I think they will definitely act on what they learned when it comes to launch, but my question is whether or not there will be slowness, or will they hit all the stops hard for the whole year they have to themselves. That's the question. I'm sure the launch day itself will be better.

Even taking 3DS releases into account, if the output that's vanished from Wii hasn't been redirected into U's first year it will significantly impact my respect for both their strategy and their ability.

 

[onipex]

Nintendo is a hard one to predict. I think they will definitely act on what they learned when it comes to launch, but my question is whether or not there will be slowness, or will they hit all the stops hard for the whole year they have to themselves. That's the question. I'm sure the launch day itself will be better.

They need to have a great launch and a great year. They left people high and dry with the Wii ,so I think they need to do everything they can to get people excited about a Nintendo home console again.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

They need to have a great launch and a great year. They left people high and dry with the Wii ,so I think they need to do everything they can to get people excited about a Nintendo home console again.

indeed. The most important things in the modern-day gaming industry is marketing+momentum+content. In that order lol, or not, considering you need content to market, but you know what I mean. They need to hit those 3 things simultaneously almost non-stop for the year.

 

[royalan]

The only ones who thought that Sega could mitigate every disastrous choice they made between Sega CD and Dreamcast, ESPECIALLY the Saturn, were the desperately naive or the intentionally ignorant. 3rd-parties saw a company in dangerous financial trouble and they didn't have any hope in its staying power even if it WAS a success, with 3 more consoles on the horizon to sink their dollars into. As businesses, they saw the writing on the wall before any of us would admit that it was there, so desperately entrenched in the idea that a major player could NEVER bow out of the hardware arena (and despite this lesson, many gamers have RETURNED to this notion and think that hardware makers are running a gamer charity and not in it for a profit, hence cries that Sony can never die despite walking the razor's edge of oblivion for the past several years).

There's ZERO parallel to the Dreamcast scenario. ZERO.

Let me be clear here: When I compared the Wii U to the Dreamcast I wasn't comparing Nintendo to Sega's disastrous financial situation that ultimately led to them bowing out of hardware development. Of course that isn't happening to Nintendo anytime soon. Nintendo is way too keen on profitability; even when they were in last place they were profitable.

I'm talking purely software here, and their relationship with 3rd parties. For say what you want about the warning signs and Sega's financial stability (and you'd be right), there's no denying that the Dreamcast was at least partially hurt by the unassailable hype of the PS2 behemoth being right around the corner ("OMG I read that the PS2 launch in Japan sold out day 1 and caused RIOTS!!", "OMG Look at the Metal Gear Solid GRAFIXXXX!" "OMG it plays dvds!? OMG "The Matrix" is gonna look so fuckin' sweet on this thing!"). And they did very little to successfully counteract that.

Of course there's no parallel to the Dreamcast "right now." The Wii U isn't even out yet and we know jack shit about it. But if you're thinking that there's no way a similar thing could happen to Nintendo if all they do is drop an HD console, call it a day, and pay no mind to the fact that Sony and MS have next-gen consoles of their own soon launching, then I daresay you're being as naive as those gamers who didn't think it possible for Sega to fall.

Doing what it takes to properly court 3rd parties is going to be Nintendo's biggest challenge next gen, and in a lot of ways it's going to involve them having to reverse a lot of their standing culture. I do not think it impossible, but don't underestimate how big a hurdle this is going to be for them.

 

[Saint Gregory]

That is a very nice post Thraktor but I kind of disagree with your point on why things shifted so dramatically towards the end of the gen. While I don't doubt that Kinect factored in, I think the real reason behind the shift was Microsft's wholesale relaunching of the 360 with the Slim and the new mass market price point along with the massive emergence of CoD as the co-defining game of the gen (it shares that title with Wii Sports).

To make matters worse for the Wii around that same time Nintendo inexplicably stopped releasing software aimed squarely at their new causal base. Had it not been for Ubi with the Just Dance series the Wii probably would have collapsed a lot sooner than it did in the US. None of that really matters now though as Nintendo accomplished what they set out to do with the Wii and seem to be more than content with backing into the next gen with another dead console.

 

[botty]

To make matters worse for the Wii around that same time Nintendo inexplicably stopped releasing software aimed squarely at their new causal base. Had it not been for Ubi with the Just Dance series the Wii probably would have collapsed a lot sooner than it did in the US. None of that really matters now though as Nintendo accomplished what they set out to do with the Wii and seem to be more than content with backing into the next gen with another dead console.

Is that the first time Nintendo relied on 3rd party software to keep their console relevant?

And it also seems like 3DS and Wii U are commanding all of their attention.

 

[Christine]

Doing what it takes to properly court 3rd parties is going to be Nintendo's biggest challenge next gen, and in a lot of ways it's going to involve them reversing a lot of their standing culture. I do not think it impossible, but don't underestimate how big a hurdle this is going to be for them.

I'm relatively confident that Nintendo will provide hardware sufficient to this purpose. I really want to believe that they've learned productive lessons about pricing and momentum from Wii and 3DS. If I had to guess where they'll fuck this up, it would be in failing to provide a competent network component to the product.

I'm talking purely software here, and their relationship with 3rd parties. For say what you want about the warning signs and Sega's financial stability (and you'd be right), there's no denying that the Dreamcast was at least partially hurt by the unassailable hype of the PS2 behemoth being right around the corner ("OMG I read that the PS2 launch in Japan sold out day 1 and caused RIOTS!!", "OMG Look at the Metal Gear Solid GRAFIXXXX!" "OMG it plays dvds!? OMG "The Matrix" is gonna look so fuckin' sweet on this thing!"). And they did very little to successfully counteract that.

It's interesting to note that this isn't happening. Neither Microsoft nor Sony have yet made any serious push to promote an upcoming machine vs. the Wii U, because they don't want to gamble with market perception vis a vis by far the most profitable years of their current offerings.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm relatively confident that Nintendo will provide hardware sufficient to this purpose.

but what he is saying is that nintendo can't just be like "here are the tools you whiners, now make shit!!!". Yeah it's unfair that they have to fight for their food while everyone else will just get theirs naturally, but that's the situation they are in. They are going to need to go the extra mile with 3rd parties. Create partnerships, build relationships, moneyhat, etc etc....

They're gonna have to get their hands dirty. Question is, do they have it in them in the west

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Fantastic post Thraktor. I read every word. Fantastic and I agree.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

DP

 

[-WindYoshi-]

DP

Please try to keep this thread work safe. Thank you.

 

[Terrell]

Let me be clear here: When I compared the Wii U to the Dreamcast I wasn't comparing Nintendo to Sega's disastrous financial situation that ultimately led to them bowing out of hardware development. Of course that isn't happening to Nintendo anytime soon. Nintendo is way too keen on profitability; even when they were in last place they were profitable.

I'm talking purely software here, and their relationship with 3rd parties. For say what you want about the warning signs and Sega's financial stability (and you'd be right), there's no denying that the Dreamcast was at least partially hurt by the unassailable hype of the PS2 behemoth being right around the corner ("OMG I read that the PS2 launch in Japan sold out day 1 and caused RIOTS!!", "OMG Look at the Metal Gear Solid GRAFIXXXX!" "OMG it plays dvds!? OMG "The Matrix" is gonna look so fuckin' sweet on this thing!"). And they did very little to successfully counteract that.

Of course there's no parallel to the Dreamcast "right now." The Wii U isn't even out yet and we know jack shit about it. But if you're thinking that there's no way a similar thing could happen to Nintendo if all they do is drop an HD console, call it a day, and pay no mind to the fact that Sony and MS have next-gen consoles of their own soon launching, then I daresay you're being as naive as those gamers who didn't think it possible for Sega to fall.

Doing what it takes to properly court 3rd parties is going to be Nintendo's biggest challenge next gen, and in a lot of ways it's going to involve them having to reverse a lot of their standing culture. I do not think it impossible, but don't underestimate how big a hurdle this is going to be for them.

Of course they can't do that! NO ONE DOES. Nintendo has never been that myopic since the last of the Yamauchi years and worked DAMN hard to get games on GameCube. Wii presented a hard sell and they STILL managed some amazing content from 3rd-parties, albeit not enough and certainly not the kind that earns any clout among the hardcore.

I'd think that walking into an E3 with a hardware reveal that had NO actual first-party games present in the sizzle reel is 2 things: unprecedented and a sign of good things to come in their willingness to be aggressive like their HD competitors. Lord knows they can afford to be.

I think this "Nintendo Network" unveiling will really set a part of the tone for the year. Fingers crossed.

 

[Father_Brain]

You're still misunderstanding what I'm saying then if you are saying "April reveal". The thing is with my job I do a lot of work in retail stores (Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, etc.). Nintendo could discuss this stuff with their corporate offices and the stores not learn this till "last minute". I set up a lot of displays that the stores don't even know about till they get the display in the store and I have to tell them where it's supposed to go. And these displays have already been approved by their corporate offices. So Nintendo could talk to retailer corporate offices in April (continuing with that theme) and announce the launch at E3 that it's coming out in July without it ever once being leaked between that time. And from there then the stores would get proper notice on doing their resets to accommodate the new incoming product. If there was a leak, it would have to be from someone on the corporate level and that's not guaranteed to happen.

If you say so. Considering how completely, utterly without precedent such a thing would be (pre-modern-Internet stealth Saturn launch excluded), I have a very hard time believing that it would be possible to keep not only the hardware launch date, but a software lineup full of unannounced titles under wraps for two months.

 

[Christine]

but what he is saying is that nintendo can't just be like "here are the tools you whiners, now make shit!!!". Yeah it's unfair that they have to fight for their food while everyone else will just get theirs naturally, but that's the situation they are in. They are going to need to go the extra mile with 3rd parties. Create partnerships, build relationships, moneyhat, etc etc....

They're gonna have to get their hands dirty. Question is, do they have it in them in the west

I disagree. I think what they really need is an online infrastructure that aligns well with the western sales model: people see what games other people on their friends list are playing, and are encouraged to purchase DLC in order to fully participate in multiplay. If they get this right, they won't need to court third parties, and if they don't, no amount of sweet talk, marketing assistance or bribery will be an effective substitute for this factor.

 

[HylianTom]

That's a gorgeous post, and a lot of it seems to ring true to me.

It's established that I'm a pretty bitter/skeptical person when it comes to third parties, but I do think that Nintendo should use more of their warchest money to buy/moneyhat key exclusives. If I ding them on anything, that's perhaps my #1 gripe.. they have tons of money, and need to put it to use.

If Nintendo makes all the right moves & gestures.
if they throw tons of moneyhats and advertising supplements around..
if they provide all of the needed and "would-be-nice" development tools and partnership options..
what do we say if third parties still don't come to the party?

Moreover, what will the new common excuse be? I don't ask this to be a smart-ass or to be snarky, but in all seriousness. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all have their own unique issues.. but somehow, Nintendo's issues seem more grievous and unforgiveable. Tin foil hat on: to treat a console with such a huge userbase like this smells really damn funny.

Assuming that they make the right moves, this generation will be very telling.

 

[bgassassin]

Nice post Thraktor.

If you say so. Considering how completely, utterly without precedent such a thing would be (pre-modern-Internet stealth Saturn launch excluded), I have a very hard time believing that it would be possible to keep not only the hardware launch date, but a software lineup full of unannounced titles under wraps for two months.

I didn't say leaks wouldn't happen if things went like that. I was showing what they would do to avoid leaks. Store front employees wouldn't get that info till after the fact. The leak would have to come from a corporate-level employee.

 

[Deguello]

Royalan, I'm sorry, but there is no parallel between Dreamcast and Wii U.

Not software wise, not management wise, not even hype wise.

Sega's name was mud among all consumers when the Saturn fizzled. Nintendo's name, despite all the hyperbole from the games media, is not.

Nintendo made something like $13 billion this generation. Nintendo would have to lose money faster than Sony did this generation to ever even get in danger of losing that, much less lose enough to actually dip into the red. They could lose a billion a year until I'm 40 and still not lose all that money.

You're conflating what Sega fans said more than a decade ago to hard fact financial realities today. These ideas do not mesh, and your logic simply does not follow. Sega was a clusterfuck from the day they launched the Sega CD (1992) to the day Bernie Stolar said "The Saturn is not in our future" at E3 1997. Despite a year or so of Dreamcast good will, it could erase half a decade of screw-up, not that it matter because Sega of America slashed the Dreamcast's price before it landed, causing even further losses (so much for the loss leader strategy, eh?)

Nintendo is not, nor is anywhere near this position. If your only reasoning is "That's what Sega fans said in 2000" then you have no reasoning.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I disagree. I think what they really need is an online infrastructure that aligns well with the western sales model: people see what games other people on their friends list are playing, and are encouraged to purchase DLC in order to fully participate in multiplay. If they get this right, they won't need to court third parties, and if they don't, no amount of sweet talk, marketing assistance or bribery will be an effective substitute for this factor.

online is part of it, but it's hard to deny that they've lost mindshare with 3rd party developers. Offering the tools necessary will only be half the battle for Nintendo.

 

[royalan]

Royalan, I'm sorry, but there is no parallel between Dreamcast and Wii U.

Not software wise, not management wise, not even hype wise.

Sega's name was mud among all consumers when the Saturn fizzled. Nintendo's name, despite all the hyperbole from the games media, is not.

Nintendo made something like $13 billion this generation. Nintendo would have to lose money faster than Sony did this generation to ever even get in danger of losing that, much less lose enough to actually dip into the red. They could lose a billion a year until I'm 40 and still not lose all that money.

You're conflating what Sega fans said more than a decade ago to hard fact financial realities today. These ideas do not mesh, and your logic simply does not follow. Sega was a clusterfuck from the day they launched the Sega CD (1992) to the day Bernie Stolar said "The Saturn is not in our future" at E3 1997. Despite a year or so of Dreamcast good will, it could erase half a decade of screw-up, not that it matter because Sega of America slashed the Dreamcast's price before it landed, causing even further losses (so much for the loss leader strategy, eh?)

Nintendo is not, nor is anywhere near this position. If your only reasoning is that "That's what Sega fans said in 2000" then you have no reasoning.

I'll point you to my last post in this thread. Never did I suggest that Nintendo was in the similar situation to Sega financially with the Wii U. I'm speaking purely of software and 3rd party support in the wake of approaching competition.

Nothing in your post here addresses that. You talk about Sega as a company, the Sega CD and the Saturn - all of which has nothing to do with what I was getting at.

Of course they can't do that! NO ONE DOES. Nintendo has never been that myopic since the last of the Yamauchi years and worked DAMN hard to get games on GameCube. Wii presented a hard sell and they STILL managed some amazing content from 3rd-parties, albeit not enough and certainly not the kind that earns any clout among the hardcore.

I'd think that walking into an E3 with a hardware reveal that had NO actual first-party games present in the sizzle reel is 2 things: unprecedented and a sign of good things to come in their willingness to be aggressive like their HD competitors. Lord knows they can afford to be.

I think this "Nintendo Network" unveiling will really set a part of the tone for the year. Fingers crossed.

I definitely agree with the bolded. I rarely compare the handheld industry with the console industry because the two have always been completely different, but it's definitely worth pointing out that Nintendo demonstrated an aggressiveness I didn't think possible of them when they turned the 3DS situation around.

If they can bring that mindset to their console business I have no doubt in them. I just hope they don't wait until any potential failure signs in the Wii U to do that.

 

[Deguello]

I'll point you to my last post in this thread. Never did I suggest that Nintendo was in the similar situation to Sega financially with the Wii U. I'm speaking purely of software and 3rd party support in the wake of approaching competition.

Nothing in your post here addresses that. You talk about Sega as a company, the Sega CD and the Saturn - all of which has nothing to do with what I was getting at.

I'll point you to the last sentence of mine.

You're saying Microsoft and Sony will drown the Wii U in a year long hype train, that Nintendo will somehow be unable to combat against, just like Sega! HOLY SHIT (except, as I've pointed out, Sega didn't even have the money to actually fight the hype.)

You're treating MS and especially Sony as invulnerable forces of nature and saying all they have to do is hype a next gen console and it will cause everybody to forget about Wii U. This is especially strange of Sony, who is still financially struggling and, at least in Japan, hasn't been able to steal thunder from the 3DS using the exact same strategy. PS2 Hype didn't kill the DC. Sega's ineptitude of 5 years prior did.

Nintendo has some work to do to rope in third parties, but it is still nowhere near the level of the Dreamcast, because both the Gamecube and the Wii had better third party support than the Dreamcast, especially since both lasted longer.

 

[royalan]

I'll point you to the last sentence of mine.

You're saying Microsoft and Sony will drown the Wii U in a year long hype train, that Nintendo will somehow be unable to combat against, just like Sega! HOLY SHIT (except, as I've pointed out, Sega didn't even have the money to actually fight the hype.)

You're treating MS and especially Sony as invulnerable forces of nature and saying all they have to do is hype a next gen console and it will cause everybody to forget about Wii U. This is especially strange of Sony, who is still financially struggling and, at least in Japan, hasn't been able to steal thunder from the 3DS using the exact same strategy. PS2 Hype didn't kill the DC. Sega's ineptitude of 5 years prior did.

That's not what I'm saying. Of course Nintendo has the resources to combat the Sony and Microsoft hype trains. They're in a much better position to do that than Sega ever was; they were even before the boatloads of cash the Wii brought in.

My fear is that they won't see it as worth it to combat MS and Sony. Nintendo has always had the power to reverse a bad reputation; they don't always do it though. See: Nintendo releasing a console that looked like a purple lunchbox that made baby noises on startup at the height of "NINTENDO IS FOR TEH KIDDIES!!!" craziness. See: Nintendo cancelling core projects right around the time people were fearing that Nintendo was abandoning gamers with the Wii (Project Hammer).

I love Nintendo, but I can't disregard their bullheaded ignoring of rest of the industry when they've got an idea stuck in their heads. Sometimes it works out for them (first three years of Wii). Sometimes it doesn't (last three years of Wii).

They can't pull that shit with the Wii U. They need to enter next gen completely aware of what their competition is up to. They can't just put out a console that's barely above a 360 in power and geared only towards the games they want to make, and expect support to come flocking to them. If they do that, they will find the Wii U in a similar situation to the Dreamcast, whether you want to believe it or not.

They need to be every bit as aggressive with the Wii U as they are now with the 3DS, right at the very start. Of course I think they can do it, but my point has only ever been that the mere existance of the Wii U is not enough. The Wii U needs to be backed by a near-complete culture change with how Nintendo does business and how they regard 3rd parties.

 

[Deguello]

My fear is that they won't see it as worth it to combat MS and Sony. Nintendo has always had the power to reverse a bad reputation; they don't always do it though. See: Nintendo releasing a console that looked like a purple lunchbox that made baby noises on startup at the height of "NINTENDO IS FOR TEH KIDDIES!!!" craziness. See: Nintendo cancelling core projects right around the time people were fearing that Nintendo was abandoning gamers with the Wii (Project Hammer).

What does this have to do with the Dreamcast? Also, I've played Project Hammer personally. If it was cancelled, it was probably because it lacked direction other than "smash robots." Not because of a nefarious scheme to pull one over on hardcore gamers (what?)

I love Nintendo, but I can't disregard their bullheaded ignoring of rest of the industry when they've got an idea stuck in their heads. Sometimes it works out for them (first three years of Wii). Sometimes it doesn't (last three years of Wii).

What does this have to do with the Dreamcast? (Bonus: Nintendo needs the industry's permission to innovate something?)

They can't pull that shit with the Wii U. They need to enter next gen completely aware of what their competition is up to. They can't just put out a console that's barely above a 360 in power and geared only towards the games they want to make, and expect support to come flocking to them. If they do that, they will find the Wii U in a similar situation to the Dreamcast, whether you want to believe it or not.

Where is the evidence that the Wii U is only as powerful as the 360? It seems like you have a lot of concerns that aren't really grounded in any sort of facts or testimony, which is why it's hard to take Dreamcast analogies seriously from you,

They need to be every bit as aggressive with the Wii U as they are now with the 3DS, right at the very start. Of course I think they can do it, but my point has only ever been that the mere existance of the Wii U is not enough.

Did anybody actually say that all Nintendo needed to do was release the Wii U? Who said this?

 

[royalan]

What does this have to do with the Dreamcast? Also, I've played Project Hammer personally. If it was cancelled, it was probably because it lacked direction other than "smash robots." Not because of a nefarious scheme to pull one over on hardcore gamers (what?)

What does it have to do with the Dreamcast??? You're arguing that the Dreamcast didn't combat PS2 hype and negative stigma because it couldn't (which I agree with). I'm arguing that Nintendo has demonstrated in the past that it won't combat negative stigma if it doesn't feel it's worth it, which could end up with the Wii U being in a similar boat with software.

And, when you say you've played Project Hammer, I'm assuming you're referring to the the very brief demo level that made it's way around several cons early this gen.

What does this have to do with the Dreamcast? (Bonus: Nintendo needs the industry's permission to innovate something?)

Where did I even suggest that?

Where is the evidence that the Wii U is only as powerful as the 360? It seems like you have a lot of concerns that aren't really grounded in any sort of facts or testimony, which is why it's hard to take Dreamcast analogies seriously from you,

I'm speaking theoretically based on worse case scenarios that have been suggested by various posters on Gaf. Do I personlly think that Nintendo will make the Wii U only as powerful as a 360? Absolutely not. Or at least, I would hope not. I would like to think there was no chance of this happening, but a lot of people didn't think Nintendo capable of releasing a console as weak as the Wii in 2006; we would later learn that was very possible.

Did anybody actually say that all Nintendo needed to do was release the Wii U?

Uh yeah? There have been several posts in this thread insinuating that all Nintendo needs to do is release HD-capable hardware.

 

[ugoo18]

We all know Project Cars is coming to the Wii-U but now the Wii-U logo is on the site banner.

http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/

http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/cars_banner1.png

 

[royalan]

We all know Project Cars is coming to the Wii-U but now the Wii-U logo is on the site banner.

http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/

http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/cars_banner1.png

This raises so many more questions than it answers! The main one being, WHY are they allowed to display the Wii U logo on their projects while other games we KNOW are coming to Wii U aren't? Ugh this is killing me.

 

[ugoo18]

This raises so many more questions than it answers! The main one being, WHY are they allowed to display the Wii U logo on their projects while other games we KNOW are coming to Wii U aren't? Ugh this is killing me.

This might be a sign that Nintendo has started to at least let certain devs reveal that their games will have Wii-U versions.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Or maybe they done screwed up.

 

[lenovox1]

Or maybe they done screwed up.

That's what I was thinking. I don't know if WMD Portal is actually allowed to do that, but we'll know something soon.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

This might be a sign that Nintendo has started to at least let certain devs reveal that their games will have Wii-U versions.

Alternatively, they simply weren't told they can't and did it themselves.

 

[civilstrife]

I think at least one major competitor is going to include a touchscreen in their new controller.

Whether or not this fucks Nintendo over is debatable, but someone is going to do it.

 

[royalan]

That's what I was thinking. I don't know if WMD Portal is actually allowed to do that, but we'll know something soon.

10 bucks says that image is gone in the next 3 hours.

 

[MDX]

We all know Project Cars is coming to the Wii-U but now the Wii-U logo is on the site banner.

http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/

http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/cars_banner1.png

Well this answers the question that I posted earlier:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34367895&postcount=354


I think the WiiU tablet controller can simulate a F1 steering wheel perfectly:

http://wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/cars_top_image.png

 

[Roo]

10 bucks says that image is gone in the next 3 hours.

*Saves image for the lulz*

 

[The M.O.B]

I think the WiiU tablet controller can simulate a F1 steering wheel perfectly:

http://wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/cars_top_image.png

No doubt there will be some add-on peripheral that will add side grips on the tablet.

 

[Terrell]

Or maybe they done screwed up.

This.

The only other option being that, since the the game is FUCKING GORGEOUS, Nintendo had no problem making claims that the footage they've shown is what WiiU is fully capable of (all the footage shown currently is full-spec PC running the beta, I believe), whereas ports like Darksiders currently show PS360 footage and probably aren't.

 

[Deguello]

What does it have to do with the Dreamcast??? You're arguing that the Dreamcast didn't combat PS2 hype and negative because it couldn't (which I agree with). I'm arguing that Nintendo has demonstrated in the past that it won't combat negative stigma if it doesn't feel it's worth it, which could end up with the Wii U being in a similar boat if they don't find it worthwhile to pay attention to their competition.

Well, what does it have to do with the dreamcast? Nintendo was somehow able to succeed with both DS and Wii without personally taking down their previous "kiddy" label. Obviously the stigma wasn't too powerful. Sega's negative stigma wasn't something applied to them. They did it to themselves. Also, not all stigmas are created equal. Sega releasing so much hardware it couldn't support lead to Sega being thought of as ripoff artists. This is not the same as internet forums calling Super Mario Kiddy or Casual (Depends on the year, you see.), because that did nothing to stop the Wii OR DS (DS was called casual too, see?)

And, when you say you've played Project Hammer, I'm assuming you're referring to the the very brief demo level that made it's way around several cons early this gen.

I did, and it wasn't particularly interesting.

Where did I even suggest that?

You said that when Nintendo gets an idea in their head "they ignore the rest of the industry." You're making it sound like every time Nintendo has a new idea that the industry is always against it, and Nintendo powers on through anyway, against the industry's wishes, thus making me think Nintendo has to ask permission from the rest of the industry before having a new idea.

The "sometimes" that it works out for them, has basically been the Wii and the DS, each thought less of in the media and industry initially and selling 240 million combined. So this strategy works out for them more than it doesn't. And I doubt because Nintendo wanted motion controls or touch screens they were "ignoring the industry" although the industry did a whole lot of that in return (except when it was time to talk about how much money the video game industry made last year.)

I'm speaking theoretically based on worse case scenarios that have been suggested by various posters on Gaf. Do I personlly think that Nintendo will make the Wii U only as powerful as a 360? Absolutely not. Or at least, I would hope not. I would like to think there was no chance of this happening, but a lot of people didn't think Nintendo capable of releasing a console as weak a the Wii ended up being in 2006, but we all learned that was very possible.

Two things:
1) Your Dreamcast analogy relies on suggestions from others and a lot of "ifs." All things considered, since Nintendo is in no way the same position as Sega, it requires a string of events to happen in a certain way so that the Wii U ends in the same position as the Dreamcast. Like, IF the Wii U is the same power as the 360, AND IF 3rd parties desert it after a year, AND IF Nintendo does nothing about it, then the Wii U will end up like the Dreamcast. That's a lot of ifs, and its pretty thin gruel, and it's not really enough for me to Chicken Little the Wii U as another Dreamcast, sorry.

2) If perception matters, then please understand that the perception of "Dreamcast" is "Sega's last console before they quit." And trying to make analogies to the Dreamcast mean precisely that. The only way you can make an analogy is if you believe that the Wii U will be Nintendo's last console before they leave the console market. Which is ludicrous. The one thing people remember about the dreamcast was that it died early and took Sega with it. To think similar of the Wii U and Nintendo just isn't based in reality.

Uh yeah? There have been several posts in this thread insinuating that all Nintendo needs to do is release HD-capable hardware.

Are you sure they weren't "All Nintendo needs to do is release an HD console for ME to be happy!" instead of "Nintendo will crush MS and Sony with naught but an HD capable console!"

And I really don't want this conversation to drag on further, so I'll let these be my final words on the matter.

 

[Anth0ny]

We all know Project Cars is coming to the Wii-U but now the Wii-U logo is on the site banner.

http://www.wmdportal.com/projects/cars/

http://www.wmdportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/cars_banner1.png

Uh.

Wow.

I don't even know what to think. I'm gonna say that image won't be there for long...

 

[A.KU.MU]

Pre-alpha build but still looks good.

Project Cars (pre-alpha build 91).

Project Cars - Gumpert Apollo S showcase (pre-alpha build 91).

Project Cars - Asano ( DTM ) showcase (pre-alpha build 96).

Project Cars - Imola real life comparison (pre-alpha build ?).

Project Cars - Bathurst real life comparison (pre-alpha build ?).

Project Cars - Formula B at Watkins (pre-alpha build 124).

 

[Terrell]

Pre-alpha build but still looks good.

Project Cars (pre-alpha build 91).

Project Cars - Gumpert Apollo S showcase (pre-alpha build 91).

Project Cars - Asano ( DTM ) showcase (pre-alpha build 96).

Project Cars - Imola real life comparison (pre-alpha build ?).

Project Cars - Bathurst real life comparison (pre-alpha build ?).

Project Cars - Formula B at Watkins (pre-alpha build 124).

Not that it was tough, given their terrible showing this gen, but we have a developer who has visually outclassed Polyphony. If it handles better than GT, too, that's a MAJOR hit to Sony. Ouch.

 

[royalan]

No point in continuing this further, let me just clarify a few of my points.

You said that when Nintendo gets an idea in their head "they ignore the rest of the industry." You're making it sound like every time Nintendo has a new idea that the industry is always against it, and Nintendo powers on through anyway, against the industry's wishes, thus making me think Nintendo has to ask permission from the rest of the industry before having a new idea.

Was not insinuating this at all. As I said in my point: sometimes it works out for them, but sometimes it doesn't. Nintendo doesn't have to always play "me too!" with the industry; but it can't completely disregard trends either, which a lot of people would say it did with the Wii (not HD-capable, lack of focus on quality online experience, etc.).

1) Your Dreamcast analogy relies on suggestions from others and a lot of "ifs." All things considered, since Nintendo is in no way the same position as Sega, it requires a string of events to happen in a certain way so that the Wii U ends in the same position as the Dreamcast. Like, IF the Wii U is the same power as the 360, AND IF 3rd parties desert it after a year, AND IF Nintendo does nothing about it, then the Wii U will end up like the Dreamcast. That's a lot of ifs, and its pretty thin gruel, and it's not really enough for me to Chicken Little the Wii U as another Dreamcast, sorry.

Some people would argue that the Wii is meeting those very realities at the tail end of its life. Nintendo released a console drastically underpowered in comparison to the competition in 2006. Many people feared that Nintendo wouldn't be able to sustain long-term, quality software support because of it. Based on the final two years of the Wii's life, those fears have been proven legit. It has been largely abandoned by 3rd parties, and has been for a while.

Now am I suggesting that the Wii U is on an unalterable course to meet the same fate? Not at all. My only point has ever been that it's a possibility if Nintendo doesn't go on the offensive right out the gate. It's the strong reaction against the very idea of it even being a possibility that leads me to believe that some posters think that 3rd party support is guaranteed merely by the existence of the hardware.


Also, I'd like to just casually point out that this entire discussion was based off of a throwaway comment I made to the tune of "Nintendo is walking a line between PS2 and Dreamcast, I fear..." that people somehow turned into me saying "Wii U = DREAMCAST!" I was only drawing parallels to the possibility that the Wii U could launch early and gobble up precious market share before the competition has a chance to make a noticeable dent (PS2); or the Wii U could launch too early, not be prepared, and eventually get swallowed by competition (Dreamcast). It's an early bird question, and not entirely unfair - people wondered the same thing about the 360 launching first.

 

[MDX]

This.

The only other option being that, since the the game is FUCKING GORGEOUS, Nintendo had no problem making claims that the footage they've shown is what WiiU is fully capable of (all the footage shown currently is full-spec PC running the beta, I believe), whereas ports like Darksiders currently show PS360 footage and probably aren't.

But then what does that suggest about WiiU's power and online capabilities?

 

[Terrell]

But then what does that suggest about WiiU's power and online capabilities?

Good things.

As I said, publishers are showing PS360 footage of the games we actually know about and Nintendo doesn't want people to assess the console's ability on footage not running on their hardware, as they saw the E3 backlash from doing that.

The fact that they let a gorgeous 1080p racing sim sport the logo (if it was indeed sanctioned) means they feel that game DOES represent the console's output. Simple as that.

This is a fragile time in a console's life, where perceptions of it are solidified in early adopters in a way that can carry over past release. The fact that we're STILL making the same jokes we did about the Wii during the final reveal in 2006 is a testament to how perceptions can get locked in before a product even hits a shelf. Mind you, it's also indicative of how unimaginative GAF is at times, too, but that's neither here nor there.

 

[ultrazilla]

I wouldn't be surprised to see select Wii games getting
re-released as "Wii Ultimates" ie HD versions of titles like
Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, Zelda Skyward Sword, Donkey
Kong Country, Smash Bros etc.

I'd be all over these in a heartbeat.

Hmm, they could make good candidates for Nintendo's
rumored app/game store as well.

 

[udivision]

Not Smash though. We need a new one, not an up-port.

 

[Emitan]

Not Smash though. We need a new one, not an up-port.

I'll take Melee with online play as a launch title. That would make me get a Wii U day one more than anything.

 

[brain_stew]

You know, for all the nay sayers that doubted that the Wii U would get property third party support, something like Project Cars is the perfect example of how wrong they are. Nintendo consoles have never had hardcore hardcore racing simulations, yet here we are with far and away the most promising racing simulation in development today and the Wii U version is set to utterly crap all over any other console version.

I just hope Nintendo open up third party peripheral support like Sony, no one wants to waggle a tablet to stimulate a steering wheel in a serious game like this.

 

[udivision]

I'll take Melee with online play as a launch title. That would make me get a Wii U day one more than anything.

That's not as cool as it sounded 5 years ago, tbh. Especially if that means none of the new brawl characters/features. I'd probably take Brawl with competent online over Melee with the same.

I just hope Nintendo open up third party peripheral support like Sony, no one wants to waggle a tablet to stimulate a steering wheel in a serious game like this.

Why would one "waggle" a tablet to steer? Unless it has a trick system like MKWii that I don't know about...

 

[pieatorium]

Why would one "waggle" a tablet to steer? Unless it has a trick system like MKWii that I don't know about...

I think he is using waggle as a stand in for motion controls, he means that motoin control steering kinda deeats the purpose of a racing sim since you probably won't get the prescise control you wan't and need.