Girls Generation - "The Boys" Live On David Letterman
- Thread starter Sammy Samusu
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This will seem defence force-ish, but it's significant that the comparison pics were pre or mid-puberty. And look at that Neville Longbottom dude.
Hard to say who has had what done, because if it is there, it's ridiculously top-tier surgery.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Asians look the same pretty much their whole life from childhood to adult hood.
Of course they went under the knife.
If I doubt the universality of this statement, are you going to flip out at me as a presumptuous Kpop-gaffer ? I mostly defer.
I'm not saying they didn't get some kind of surgery. Just saying it's not super obvious (you may/will disagree) or necessarily super extensive.
Finaika
Member
Agreed. People as beautiful as them do not need extensive surgery.
ChiTownBuffalo
Either I made up lies about the Boston Bomber or I fell for someone else's crap. Either way, I have absolutely no credibility and you should never pay any attention to anything I say, no matter what the context. Perm me if I claim to be an insider
Kpop-GAF barely stops talking about how weird it is.
I thought it was fucked up that Secret were covering their windows with tinfoil for insulation. I think it's beyond fucked up that sexual exploitation does happen. Nobody's covering it up. Well, nobody on GAF.
But the whole scene isn't busted.
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
I like the idea of this...but in reality its just odd.
No kidding.
Red Blaster
Member
Uh what
To put it in sports terms you may understand Tebow = Yoona, loved or hated for whatever reasons. Fandoms that dislike/rival each other i.e. Michigan vs Ohio State = ELFs vs SONE
I'm sure there are some people interested in what their life is like:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xndiia_star-life-theater-ep-09-snsd-2011-11-21-en_shortfilms
I'm sure there are some people interested in what their life is like:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xndiia_star-life-theater-ep-09-snsd-2011-11-21-en_shortfilms
so it's like football but more pathetic
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
There are 4 main music shows each week that hold live performances of the top performers that week. Three of these shows give an award to the "winner" of that week, which is decided by a aggregate of physical and digital sales, popularity on search portals, phone and website votes, industry critics, etc. Each show has a different way of adding all of this up, so if you win one show it doesn't mean you'll win the others. How many you win obviously has correlation to the overall performance which decides year-end awards, though those can use different systems of determining who was "the best" that year.
This atmosphere of consistent live performances for the artists currently promoting has made it quite competitive and the fan groups have taken on characteristics of sports fans. They have an official name for their fanbase, official color (at this point, should be combined to 2 like sports), official items to show their support, and learn chants which mix in seemlessly with the breaks of the song to cheer together from the crowd. If you analyze more closely, you can work out some general "divisions" of the industry, and specific rivalries (which are mostly in the minds of the fans) Groups are also easily broken down into specific roles each member focuses on, like lead singer, main singer, lead dancer, designated rapper, good looks for center position in camera shots, etc.
Performers are scouted or try out to get picked up by the agency, where they will sign a contract to only perform for them yet also get trained by the agency. There they train professionally to debut as a performer, and most often these days it is in a group, which garners its own dedicated fanbase. Speculations about new recruits, the next concept an artist will have, who will compose their song and other details are constantly going on in regard to how competitive that will make them against other artists. They are also often getting interviewed about their mindset regarding competition with upcoming promotions or looking back at how they did in previous promotion rounds, and they get a lot of love/hate for their attitude towards others depending on their response.
Most groups will have their key members that get the spotlight and are considered to somewhat carry their group because of their talent. Off the music stage, on variety shows and dramas, things are much more individualistic and performers are hired not for for years like with their music agency, but just for a few weeks for the short-run show or a guest appearance. This allows for particularly charming people to gain popularity for their group, and make them competitive even from a small and relatively unknown agency. So while the big money decides a lot of the success, there is still an element to where skill can bring them to the top.
Honestly, the more you get into it and look at the patterns of behavior and dynamics of the industry and fans, the more you see it is quite a lot like sports.
Souldriver
Member
As someone who likes pop music that others would consider trash, I have a hard time finding something appealing about this.
I mean, no need to apologize for loving the TITS AND LEGS aspect of this group, but the music is ...eh... definitely not for me...
I mean, no need to apologize for loving the TITS AND LEGS aspect of this group, but the music is ...eh... definitely not for me...
haha yuuup.
i hope that stuff about getting middle schoolers drunk and yadda yadda is a rare case. if that shit is standard practice then I'm sure a lot of girls get pretty messed up in the head going through this process growing up.
plastic surgery i could believe though.
Yeah, so many better songs... in Korean.
I wonder how they came about appearing on Live with Kelly because Letterman's music producer got in touch with their label and asked them to perform on the show.
What I don't understand is, since SNSD's success is largely tied to them being a cultural phenomenon (something that's not going to help them at all in the States), why not try to bring over acts that actually have a shot?
I don't follow K-Pop extensively, but from what I've heard there are some groups out there that would have a much better shot, just based on their music (which is where a K-Pop act needs to really deliver to have any shot in hell).
2NE1 and Brown Eyed Girls, heck even that group Rania have a music style that would be a LOT easier to translate into US success. So why are we getting SNSD - which to US audiences more closely resembles slutty Kids Bop than good Pop music?
This song's not bad either, and would be better for the US than anything SNSD does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUIBBHPFfBY
I don't follow K-Pop extensively, but from what I've heard there are some groups out there that would have a much better shot, just based on their music (which is where a K-Pop act needs to really deliver to have any shot in hell).
2NE1 and Brown Eyed Girls, heck even that group Rania have a music style that would be a LOT easier to translate into US success. So why are we getting SNSD - which to US audiences more closely resembles slutty Kids Bop than good Pop music?
This song's not bad either, and would be better for the US than anything SNSD does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUIBBHPFfBY
2NE1 and Brown Eye Girls are not from S.M. Entertainment. Its up to the discretion of their company if they want to move them to America.
I dont see why SNSD hasnt done an English version of Run Devil Run, since the song was originally written in english and for a US pop star.
I dont see why SNSD hasnt done an English version of Run Devil Run, since the song was originally written in english and for a US pop star.
You talk like kpop is one big Korean conglomerate where it's decided by Korea on who to send to dominate America. It's basically small entertainment agencies trying to make a profit.
SME/SNSD is just testing the waters and being smart about it, create a little buzz, see what the reaction will be without going in full steam like JYP/Wonder Girls did. Wonder Girls had some limited success to open up America to kpop, now it's Soshi's turn to open it up further. If Soshi succeeds then it opens the door more for YGE/2NE1 to enter the US market and I'm sure CCM/T-ara/Rainbow will be close behind to saturate the market.
SME/SNSD is just testing the waters and being smart about it, create a little buzz, see what the reaction will be without going in full steam like JYP/Wonder Girls did. Wonder Girls had some limited success to open up America to kpop, now it's Soshi's turn to open it up further. If Soshi succeeds then it opens the door more for YGE/2NE1 to enter the US market and I'm sure CCM/T-ara/Rainbow will be close behind to saturate the market.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
The concept of mechanically putting a group of girls together like a puzzle for maximum entertainment seems offputting to me.
YoungMandu
Member
wrong thread
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
There, now it actually says what you meant and it also doesn't come off insultingly.
I think it's a difficult thing for many to understand. I won't say it's "right" all the way through, but it has strengths and weaknesses.
The way they put groups and shows together, in one sense, celebrates the value of people and the times they share together more than western entertainment does. That they would bother analyzing the personalities of the girls through the training process and pick them according to who would get along fabulously and create good times together... I don't really see how that is bad. You could say it seems manipulative to do that to make it more appealing to make money, but regardless of that, if you are creating a good thing, it is still a good thing.
This principle goes for their TV shows even more. They try to find a good mix of celebrities who will make it a good time and design the show to be a good time. The people on the show have fun, the audience has fun, it's all good. Western media seems more focused on either making some sort of statement or on the activity the people are doing together. If personalities are taken into consideration, it is often to create drama and disharmony to make it questionable/suspenseful how the goal of the activity will be attained. In Korea they strive for harmony, and while it can seem like fake manners at times, there are plenty of times where, despite it being awkward to force it, it ends up becoming genuine through that awkward effort. They understand and celebrate community.
At the very height of this is Invincible Youth. Season 1 of Invincible Youth is, in my mind, the very best purpose for which TV entertainment can be used. It was fun, heartwarming, reminded you to cherish the truly valuable things in life, encouraged you to work through the difficulties that come in order to find them, celebrated community, invested in and developed the community they were at, and built real friendship between the cast members while developing new aspects of character to help them become stronger individuals. Simply outstanding. On the negative side, you have stuff like the totally fake/rehearsed reactions on shows like Star King.
The American-style focus on always being your individual self and only expressing what comes from you naturally does have it's benefits, but on some level, when you try and train yourself to be a more delightful sort of person, even if you have to just fake it at first, some of that becomes real. It's not bad to improve yourself, to overcome your weaknesses and allow your personality to grow as you push yourself, and making the effort is the only way it ever really happens. I remember doing it upon entering High School to get over shyness I had in Jr High. Because of this, I don't really take issue with the intentionality of Korean entertainment to develop these qualities.
I'm confused. You say that Korean music isn't just some big conglomerate, but then in your next paragraph you make it seem like it's a joint effort between the agencies to "Open Up" America. Which is it?
The common theme I'm noticing in this thread is this idea that Korea has to "open up" the American market for K-Pop...but the thing is, the fact that no group has done it so far has nothing to do with the fact that they're Korean...and everything to do with the music. To put it simply, the standard K-Pop fare is just too different from where American tastes lie, and in some ways a lot of it sounds very dated. "The Boys" sounds like a song from late 90s pop explosion.
The idol culture that makes these girls huge mega stars in Korea won't translate here at all, and because their performances are so staunchly choreographed, it means American audiences will never really get to know these girls and their personalities. That's very important in the US. Wonder Girls, SNSD, and whoever else comes next, really...they didn't open the door anymore than it already was opened. The next group that comes over is going to be starting off from square one just as those who came before
It has nothing to do with where they're from. It's the music. If a K-Pop group came over with a hit song that subscribed to American tastes, and they really made a play for the States, they'd be a hit...and nobody would really care where they were from.
Zoe
Member
You're right. It worked so well for BoA.
Zoe
Member
It was mainstream pop made for American tastes.
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
Uh, yeah it was, in terms of American pop.
http://youtu.be/OLnr2u_nj10
http://youtu.be/7ehZw9RGkEQ
In light of Ke$ha and Black Eyed Peas success at the time... exactly how does this fail in any way? I guess she could have done Touched and gone for a sexier, Ciara-like concept, or more of a straight pop style with Did Ya, but I don't think it would have been recognized any more than these two.
Yeah I can see the confusion in my last paragraph. I meant it more as each company will piggy-back off the other's success, but they won't be meeting with each other to decide who is going to America next.
I don't believe that SME/Interscope will try to duplicate what made SNSD a success in Asia with America. They are just seeing what the reaction will be and see what works in America and hopefully garner some interest in casuals so they go check the internet about them. They are not in America to be Gaga/Taylor Swift and be on tour 24-7, they are here to sell some records to garner interest in having a solo Girls Generation concert in select cities like NY/LA and then back to Asia with plans for Europe and South America next.
Dude Abides
Banned
It could be the lack of any catchy hook and the bland production.
Or you can stick with the Americans hate Koreans thesis.
Doesn't mean it was good. It has to be good.
Ke$ha - as much as I despise her - can be credited with being one of the acts, along with Black Eyed Peas, to usher in this new era of "I don't give a fuck" Dance Pop. That, and the lyrics to "Tik Tok" were insanely catchy.
I do hate myself.
OpinionatedCyborg
Member
high five
I have their first two albums. There are couple songs (Gee, Oh!) that are decent a few more that are moderately listenable and the rest are totally forgettable.
I have 1.2 TB of music. About 25% of it is in Japanese, Chinese, French, or Italian. I tend to prefer pop music in languages I don't fully understand because the lyrics tend to be really stupid or offensive (certain stereotypes really annoy me). So I don't think the language is the problem.
The biggest problem is the music isn't catchy. The next biggest problem is the sound - the vocals are uninteresting and so is the accompanying background music. The next are the girls themselves - they all sound and look the same. And finally, there is the creepiness factor of listening to grown women sing and act like 13-year-olds. The jutxaposition of childishness and sex grosses me out. I think this may just be a cultural thing, though. But I can't take women seriously who make stupid faces, hand gestures, sing about love as if they're 9-years-old, etc all while dressing and dancing provocatively. Of course, if the music was extremely catchy or interesting in some way, then I wouldn't care - Girls Generation would be a guilty pleasure of mine.
I sought them out in the first place because I wanted some stupid, catchy foreign pop and the GAF thread was 10,000 posts long. To say that I was disappointed is an understatement. I hope they crash, burn, and melt into a puddle of plastic in the States.
Man, if they don't sell in America, then that's what it is and that's ok. It's not like they've gambled anything much on this.
There is, astoundingly, the rest of the world out there.
You're listening to the wrong group, sensei. You need to get on that T-ara, Shinsadong Tiger produces/writes their stuff and he's a mad genius yo.
I've always wondered why we only apply this standard ("manufactured" vs "art") to the music industry but not other broad forms of entertainment like television, games and movies.
Do we look down on most actors because they don't write their own dialog? Is Arrested Development not worthwhile entertainment because you have separate writers, actors, directors, foley artists, editors, etc? Should we not like it because Michael Cera didn't grow up with Jason Bateman and they didn't form their own acting troupe which became Arrested Development? Like actors, these singers have to pass rigorous audition processes that show they have the raw talent to become stars and they work very hard to reach the level they do. The difference is that they have the "benefit" of being signed at an earlier age based on that potential rather than being signed after gaining some level of commercial success.
I don't care if people like K-Pop or not. But disliking a genre of music just because it's "manufactured" seems short-sighted. It discredits the insane amount of hard work and dedication these singers put into their performances and ignores that the vast majority of entertainment we all consume is on one level or another "manufactured". Now if you don't like it because you think it's a bad song (like "The Boys" for example), be my guest.
Do we look down on most actors because they don't write their own dialog? Is Arrested Development not worthwhile entertainment because you have separate writers, actors, directors, foley artists, editors, etc? Should we not like it because Michael Cera didn't grow up with Jason Bateman and they didn't form their own acting troupe which became Arrested Development? Like actors, these singers have to pass rigorous audition processes that show they have the raw talent to become stars and they work very hard to reach the level they do. The difference is that they have the "benefit" of being signed at an earlier age based on that potential rather than being signed after gaining some level of commercial success.
I don't care if people like K-Pop or not. But disliking a genre of music just because it's "manufactured" seems short-sighted. It discredits the insane amount of hard work and dedication these singers put into their performances and ignores that the vast majority of entertainment we all consume is on one level or another "manufactured". Now if you don't like it because you think it's a bad song (like "The Boys" for example), be my guest.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I would write out an argument for this but its not worth the time. But pretty much, its not the same. I know, great argument, right?
Dude Abides
Banned
Pretty sure people sneer at formulaic TV, movies, games, etc. Kitsch is kitsch.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
I would agree with this...The reasons each are formulaic is different, but the result and reaction from others is the same
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
The strangest thing I get from this topic is why you like your favorite member, because of their "charming, interesting personality." Where are you seeing this?
These girls were basically bred from adolescence to whatever age they are now to be media puppets. Whatever personality you have seen from them in music, tv, EVERYTHING, has been carefully designed, edited, and approved by their management. Just like reality TV in the US, whatever shows you see them in are not the "real" them but some kind of pseudo-reality where everything is pre-scripted and edited for maximum punch and effect.
Then you have the whole idea of "picking" your favorite girl in the group, which is just like picking out your Barbie or some other doll: you just project your own ideals and interest into a "totem" of your affection.
These girls were basically bred from adolescence to whatever age they are now to be media puppets. Whatever personality you have seen from them in music, tv, EVERYTHING, has been carefully designed, edited, and approved by their management. Just like reality TV in the US, whatever shows you see them in are not the "real" them but some kind of pseudo-reality where everything is pre-scripted and edited for maximum punch and effect.
Then you have the whole idea of "picking" your favorite girl in the group, which is just like picking out your Barbie or some other doll: you just project your own ideals and interest into a "totem" of your affection.
hahahahaha, that was great!
On tv shows - which, as mentioned earlier, constitute the bulk of their media presence.
Uh, to an extent. Nobody denies that this is the case to an extent.
lol, drivel.
EDIT: Sal <3
But really i dont think some of you know that a lot of kpop fans are not creepy at all we arent that serious about it. We even joke about it on the kpop threads
Dice
Pokémon Parentage Conspiracy Theorist
TheKaeptain
Banned
Did someone post the Yamato signal?
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