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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]

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Another negative preview of Dota 2. I think having a public beta without any sort of implemented teaching tools was a massive blunder on Valve's part. I've read many negative impressions online and several of my friends didn't enjoy the game because it assumes you are xXxGoSuPr0xXx.

I agree.

I'm anticipating some sort of reward system for coaching players, or filling in for disconnectors in a game. I wouldn't mind helping new players out if I got some sort of token or currency for skins/models.

A guide system like what hon has would be neat too. A casual mode that has a limited hero pool (no pudge, invoker, ursa or other pub stompers/difficult heroes) would go a long way to helping players adjust before they go into the real game.

I think that there's been a lot more people invited than whats actually online, most of them probably get burned by their first game.
 
are there any good guide/tutorial vids for this or is the beta locked down?

Pulled these from reddit:

www.playdota.com/guides/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/otygb/switching_from_league_of_legends_what_should_i/
http://www.dota2reference.com/ (This will help you learn what exactly the heroes do and what items do)
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1kMB76xUcCsV2DFkXSP8cD-J8XVdlTceoVvILeAcdEdY (These usually have good advice on specific heroes you play, it helped me a lot on my lesser played heroes, look to the comment section. Shred_Kid usually has good advice on most heroes).
 
I agree.

I'm anticipating some sort of reward system for coaching players, or filling in for disconnectors in a game. I wouldn't mind helping new players out if I got some sort of token or currency for skins/models.

A guide system like what hon has would be neat too. A casual mode that has a limited hero pool (no pudge, invoker, ursa or other pub stompers/difficult heroes) would go a long way to helping players adjust before they go into the real game.

I think that there's been a lot more people invited than whats actually online, most of them probably get burned by their first game.

Anecdotally, out of the 9 people on my steam list that into the beta at the same time as me, half stopped playing after the first week. The 2 people I played my initial game with (we got stomped hard by normal comps) went back to LoL after 3 games against the computer..
 
Funny how all the negative reviews always start out with: People know I'm a big LoL player and have been playing LoL for many years and post about LoL all the time on this site.
 
Another negative preview of Dota 2. I think having a public beta without any sort of implemented teaching tools was a massive blunder on Valve's part. I've read many negative impressions online and several of my friends didn't enjoy the game because it assumes you are xXxGoSuPr0xXx.

This review is stupid. It's clearly another "I'm a big LoL player and I don't like this because it isn't LoL". His complaints about the shop alone show's he has no idea what he is talking about.


Anecdotally, out of the 9 people on my steam list that into the beta at the same time as me, half stopped playing after the first week. The 2 people I played my initial game with (we got stomped hard by normal comps) went back to LoL after 3 games against the computer..

I also have this problem. I have like 4 friends that used to play LoL that I have tried to get playing Dota 2 with me, and none of them wanted to make the switch. They play one or two games and decide they don't like it and go back to LoL. I'm the complete opposite. I played LoL since beta, and after I got into Dota 2, I haven't ever looked back.
 
Disagree. She is not initiation, unless you're playing against some god awful morons. Her stun is slow, tiny and she's squishy. "Initiating" basically means you die, so all that mana you farmed up suddenly went to waste. For her, Blink Dagger is only a gank/mobility tool.

Every hero with any type of stun can initiate, this dosent mean that she is supposed to tank any damage, the stun is 1,6 sec and that is plenty of time for you team to go in and you can probably with good lv take out 1 support hero by your own by doing a stun, nuke, ulti combo.

The stun is not that tiny, you can hit 3 heroes in the same stun sometimes, and ofc you hate the stun if you dont have a blink dagger, blink dagger makes it easier to land stuns.

Also Refresher, Dagon and Ethereal Blade as luxury items? Lol. Why waste the 180% AS? Even if I was going a traditional Lina build I would still get damage/semi carry items after Aghanim and Guinsoo.

180 AS is no big deal for lina, her base damage is shit anyways like almost every caster, its just a nice little bonus when farming or getting the last hits during ganking.

And just because items gives damage it dosent mean it is "semi-carry" items. My build is actaully a solo mid semi-carry lina build. If I lane with her I would probably support because I need the extra xp in mid in order to do high magic damage early/mid game. She does a high amount of magic damage, she needs int items in order to gank and she is a dsopiadnoasubidasnjdasdCKING CASTER.

Its like giving an axe to a skinny mage and say "yo dawg, kill people with this".

Yeah pretty much. Until I start leveling stats. But the great part of that build is that I'm not useless when OOM.

When you are OOM, you cant cast spells for the AS, now your argument is invalid and my hair is a bird. You are saying she is squishy and you buy her an armlet that probably takes away a lot of her hp points.

You are building her a str carry and I still dont get it.
 
Every hero with any type of stun can initiate, this dosent mean that she is supposed to tank any damage, the stun is 1,6 sec and that is plenty of time for you team to go in and you can probably with good lv take out 1 support hero by your own by doing a stun, nuke, ulti combo.

The stun is not that tiny, you can hit 3 heroes in the same stun sometimes, and ofc you hate the stun if you dont have a blink dagger, blink dagger makes it easier to land stuns.



180 AS is no big deal for lina, her base damage is shit anyways like almost every caster, its just a nice little bonus when farming or getting the last hits during ganking.

And just because items gives damage it dosent mean it is "semi-carry" items. My build is actaully a solo mid semi-carry lina build. If I lane with her I would probably support because I need the extra xp in mid in order to do high magic damage early/mid game. She does a high amount of magic damage, she needs int items in order to gank and she is a dsopiadnoasubidasnjdasdCKING CASTER.

Its like giving an axe to a skinny mage and say "yo dawg, kill people with this".



When you are OOM, you cant cast spells for the AS, now your argument is invalid and my hair is a bird. You are saying she is squishy and you buy her an armlet that probably takes away a lot of her hp points.

You are building her a str carry and I still dont get it.

So you're basically saying that you can only build a hero one way, you can't explore nor try things out. You can do what everyone does and screw metagame inovations, right?

And I like the part where you mention "an axe" cause it reminded me how some people used to say the same thing for Axe and his Battle Hunger and even before the buff I do believe it was a good ability. Not for every game/league game but it might work on pubs. Same way battle lina works.
 
Pulled these from reddit:

www.playdota.com/guides/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/otygb/switching_from_league_of_legends_what_should_i/
http://www.dota2reference.com/ (This will help you learn what exactly the heroes do and what items do)
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1kMB76xUcCsV2DFkXSP8cD-J8XVdlTceoVvILeAcdEdY (These usually have good advice on specific heroes you play, it helped me a lot on my lesser played heroes, look to the comment section. Shred_Kid usually has good advice on most heroes).

Good post. The first playdota link I give to my friends who are new. I doubt they read it, but it prevents them from picking harder heroes.
 
Pulled these from reddit:

www.playdota.com/guides/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/otygb/switching_from_league_of_legends_what_should_i/
http://www.dota2reference.com/ (This will help you learn what exactly the heroes do and what items do)
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1kMB76xUcCsV2DFkXSP8cD-J8XVdlTceoVvILeAcdEdY (These usually have good advice on specific heroes you play, it helped me a lot on my lesser played heroes, look to the comment section. Shred_Kid usually has good advice on most heroes).

Thanks tonne JT.
 
So you're basically saying that you can only build a hero one way, you can't explore nor try things out. You can do what everyone does and screw metagame inovations, right?

And I like the part where you mention "an axe" cause it reminded me how some people used to say the same thing for Axe and his Battle Hunger and even before the buff I do believe it was a good ability. Not for every game/league game but it might work on pubs. Same way battle lina works.

I was a bit confused with the english grammar if I would type "an axe" or "a axe" but im sorry if its not right. Having english as my third language is pretty hard.

Yes ofc anything can work in pubs, but if someones uses a weird item build they better have some good arguments.

One example is when I heared that Eul scepter was a good item for NS and my first reaction was WTF, but when i read about it it made sense. Or when I first saw a windrunner with a Battlefury before there was a force staff, it is now not really so worth to get it but back then it was.
 
So you're basically saying that you can only build a hero one way, you can't explore nor try things out. You can do what everyone does and screw metagame inovations, right?

And I like the part where you mention "an axe" cause it reminded me how some people used to say the same thing for Axe and his Battle Hunger and even before the buff I do believe it was a good ability. Not for every game/league game but it might work on pubs. Same way battle lina works.

I don't get why you would go Armlet though, wouldn't Crystalys or Maelstrom be better? (Crystalys should give more damage to a single target, while Maelstrom should do more damage to the enemy team as a whole)
 
Didn't know they could stack.

They do. In games where I'm somewhat decent, I'll usually grab two before I upgrade either one to anything. But this game we were utterly destroying the enemy team, and I had so much gold... i decided to be a bit silly.

Machine gun Lifestealer!

WHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACKWHACK
 
She is a caster and needs caster items and mana to be effective.

You always spec your fiery soul last, stun and nuke first and ofc ulti.

A blink dagger is a CORE ITEM for her in order to be most effective with initation and land perfect stuns, then get an aghanim, sheepstick, follow up with boots of travel and if you go into late late game some luxury items can be like refresher orb, dagons, etheral blade.

Seriously i would be furious if I saw a Lina with those items..

almost as wrong as you thinking wisp is a terrible support
 
Good post. The first playdota link I give to my friends who are new. I doubt they read it, but it prevents them from picking harder heroes.
New guys should also watch some of Purge's videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/PurgeGamers

Valve should give some reward for this guy. The videos are really good and helpful.

I was a bit confused with the english grammar if I would type Or when I first saw a windrunner with a Battlefury before there was a force staff, it is now not really so worth to get it but back then it was.
Explain to me why BF on WR should be good D:

(off topic: english is not my first language but you should remember to use "an" before vowels (a, e, i, o and u) and "a" before anything else. Beside this as far as I know they're the same thing)
 
never said that, but I would rather have a "shitlock" instead of a whisp any day.

Looking forward to seeing you in some inhouses.

@vinicius

bf wr was done as a troll build by puppey, he was stating how pubs will follow anything they see a pro did, so he and a couple friends decided to go bf on wr, claiming how it gave: "GG DMG AND REGEN FOR COST" and the sheep followed. lulz.
 
Explain to me why BF on WR should be good D:

Like I said, this was in some early dota version, there was no force staff and she was more played as a ganker/semi-carry than a utility hero. Battlefury was cheap damage (costed like 2700 I think) and the mana regen is very usefull for her because of the spell spamming.
 
Pulled these from reddit:

www.playdota.com/guides/welcome-to-dota-you-suck
http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/otygb/switching_from_league_of_legends_what_should_i/
http://www.dota2reference.com/ (This will help you learn what exactly the heroes do and what items do)
https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1kMB76xUcCsV2DFkXSP8cD-J8XVdlTceoVvILeAcdEdY (These usually have good advice on specific heroes you play, it helped me a lot on my lesser played heroes, look to the comment section. Shred_Kid usually has good advice on most heroes).

This is also a very good item/shop overview for anyone still trying to wrap their head around how those work:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9-q...xt=C31bd5c4UDOEgsToPDskJZpnjYwGj5MSvwo6mRn8D4
 
bf wr was done as a troll build by puppey, he was stating how pubs will follow anything they see a pro did, so he and a couple friends decided to go bf on wr, claiming how it gave: "GG DMG AND REGEN FOR COST" and the sheep followed. lulz.
Like I said, this was in some early dota version, there was no force staff and she was more played as a ganker/semi-carry than a utility hero. Battlefury is cheap damage and the mana regen is very usefull for her because of the spell spamming.
uh :lol
 
I'm Tiny, in a lane up against Drow Ranger and Sniper. Is there anything I can do to get some last hits?
Get someone to swap with you or call for ganks as neither of them have no escape mechanisms and are both really squishy.
But the lane isn't just bad for you as both of them needs gold to carry and are vulnerable to ganks if they push too much. You should be able to have someone gank and tiny is usually a great help with stun/toss.

You should also know how to pull but this might take your tower down really fast if both of them keep hiting it.

Btw: remember that you can deal more damage with avalanche if you wait for the first tick of avalanche hit and toss them up.
 
Looking forward to seeing you in some inhouses.
bf wr was done as a troll build by puppey, he was stating how pubs will follow anything they see a pro did, so he and a couple friends decided to go bf on wr, claiming how it gave: "GG DMG AND REGEN FOR COST" and the sheep followed. lulz.

Uhm, still Pajkatt and Fear bought a Battlefury for her in many competetive matches? Guess Puppey is a blind genius.
 
Thanks, I ended up getting a teammate to trade lanes with me, but I ran into a similar problem on the other side vs the two, there. Pretty demoralizing match; I guess I should stay away from the random hero button....
 
I mustve missed the version where bfury cost 2700. Youd think that would be from pre 5.84c era but WR didnt exist back then so who was semicarry?????

@Doc: The armlet is for a combination of damage, and hp. It gave me dps when inactive and the ability to survive focus fire when active.

@coolhwip: I dont leave armlet on 24/7. Im not sure what hero would. For all intents and purposes, armlet is some 400+ hp and 30+ damage when I really need it. Thats what makes it a great item. Whether or not its better than vanguard on battle lina is another question that warrants further testing.

You'll also note that she has 3.2 INT growth, which is above average stat growth for a primary attribute. Her base damage is actually higher than that of many heroes, carries or otherwise.

RE: Items

One of the problems of categorizing items by stats is this:
Just because you're an AGI hero doesn't mean you should only be getting AGI items. Because of the prevalence of potentially game changing actives, you should always be buying items to fit the situation, rather than buying items that pump up your stat of choice.

I see this is a big problem many LoL players have trouble adjusting to, because champ roles are pretty stringently defined, and item builds never really change beyond trading some AD/AP for HP/AR/MR. DOTA doesn't really work like that. For example, there is no parallel for something like Bloodthirster, an AD staple. The closest DOTA has to a go-to life steal item is HotD, which builds into a Satanic, which is a hefty STR item. Any new player starting out would think "oh, this is supposed to be a STR item, I should avoid this because I'm AGI". And then they go on to make Mask of Madness or something because it gives attack speed.

Having items categorized by stats promotes this kind of thinking, which should be avoided.

I do agree, however, that it should at least be an option. HoN has it, I don't know of anyone who used it but it's good that it was there.
 
So, here are my general thoughts on DOTA2 after playing a week of beta (mostly just compared to HoN).

The good:
-Overall, the game feels polished and responsive. I do feel like HoN actually felt more responsive overall, but this is leagues above LoL.
-The art style is good, it is better than that of HON / LOL.
-The fact that you can communicate via steam with friends, join parties so easily, spectate a game while queued. Basically the whole interface is designed well.
-I really missed some heroes and am glad to be able to play them again.
-Some things in HoN were just bad, most prominently some cheesy heroes and the community (which definitely seems worse than DOTA at this point, though it remains to be seen whether that will continue)

The bad:
-I felt like HoN moved in a more overall positive direction than dota by emphasizing faster paced games, more ganking, and "skill shots" on some of their well-designed heroes (and I'd readily acknowledge that many do not fit this description). I really do not enjoy farm-fest games that end with spectre-domination in the 60th minute...this sort of game to me really represents the stagnant aspects of the genre, and i'd like to see it change. I don't have a problem with carries fulfilling their roles, but the game should be able to be won reliably earlier on, so that every game doesn't just devolve into carry v carry. Perhaps there just aren't enough good gank/push heroes implemented yet?
-Mana bars? I'm sorry but this type of thinking that a lack of mana bars for enemies is a good implementation of a "skill gap" is just antiquated. If anything, I'd say that displaying mana bars adds a new layer of skill to the game, not to mention more user friendly and intuitive. I think this type of antiquated thinking is a general problem at this point. This game should be seen as an opportunity to take advantage of the opportunities provided by a new engine and a fresh start. Instead, aspects of DOTA that were probably never intentional or thought-through are being copy-pasted into DOTA 2 without rethinking their necessity.
-Most of the other things I don't like are mostly due to the game being in beta. If many of the improvements that were added by HoN/LoL such as PSR matchmaking, internal banlists, etc aren't added here though, that would be to DOTA2's detriment.

And finally some random questions that have come up:
-How do I whisper another player (who isn't on my friends list)?
-Is there a banlist or any plans to implement one?
-Has icefrog given an ETA on getting SD and other game modes in to the game?
-Were there some console commands that I am supposed to input to make the game more responsive / reduce lag? Also...I don't know how to open the console. :)
-Are there plans to implement a stat tracking system that also matches players according to skill ala PSR in HoN?
 
Don't have time to watch the other CLG vs Fnatic matches, but the first one was alright.

I really don't like Luminous Casting, it was made even worse when Purge was doing a much better job at commentating, but you simply couldn't see what he was looking at (Purge brought up like 3 or 4 times Witch Doctor doing some amazing plays, and Luminous never caught a single one)

Loved the Ball Lightning/Holy Perseverance harass from CLG though. CLG's picks just weren't to great, CLG should of really have gotten one good late game carry, since nether team had one and Fnatic was going for a heavy early game pushing.


-I felt like HoN moved in a more overall positive direction than dota by emphasizing faster paced games, more ganking, and "skill shots" on some of their well-designed heroes (and I'd readily acknowledge that many do not fit this description). I really do not enjoy farm-fest games that end with spectre-domination in the 60th minute...this sort of game to me really represents the stagnant aspects of the genre, and i'd like to see it change. I don't have a problem with carries fulfilling their roles, but the game should be able to be won reliably earlier on, so that every game doesn't just devolve into carry v carry. Perhaps there just aren't enough good gank/push heroes implemented yet?

This is a problem with Pub games more then Competitive ones. For some reason, people in pub games always drag the game out far to long, I have had at least two dozen games that were lost due to my team having a good early and mid game, but bad late game, but just didn't really push enough earlyish game. And pubs love picking 2 to 3 late game carries, if not more.

In competitive games, so many end in 25 to 30 minutes and really push for early victories.
 
Is there a good guide for newbies to DOTA anywhere? I'm sick of playing games and being treated like a leper because im not doing what the obvious pros are doing.
 
Sweet, Fnatic picked Doom.

He was my first hero, so will be fun to see him played pro again. Last time I saw that, was EHOME picking him constantly at the international.
 
I just watched some of purge's stuff. His youtube channel really should be added to the OP. His coaching vids really help in terms of explaining strategy especially in the mid-endgame.
 
Iam done with this game its just massivly noob unfriendly.

Ask in Neogaf game chat if other noobs wanna play. Also, I've noticed that if you set MORE regions to active, you have a better chance at getting into an evenly matched MM game. (Cuz if you only use, e.g., NA East, the skill range of players is gonna have to increase.)
 
Tobi is better.

This Purge guy is better than both of them though.



And WTF at Doom Bringer pick, first time I've seen him since the Internationals.

I like Tobi more then Purge when it comes to commentating on a tournament game (Purge's Tutorial Videos are great though), but I think we can agree both just stomp all over Luminous. I think I would take the auto director over Luminous.
 
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