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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]
- Thread starter Swag
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Hah, awesome. Is there anywhere that's hosting the vods for this tournament?
Seems like the vods arent up yet!
They should be available at http://www.joindota.com/en/vods whenever theyre uploaded. Probably gonna be up tomorrow unless tobi died from casting for 40 hours in 2 days.
Piercedveil
Member
Couple questions for anyone who can help! I'm a complete noob btw.
1.) Why do you not want to die in this game? I know that's a big thing. Only because it gives the other team gold or are there other reasons?
2.) What exactly do I want to be doing while I play and how do I help my team? I read up on it and I understand there are roles for certain heroes, but I'm just not exactly sure what I should be doing and what a good role for me would be.
3.) Is it going to be pointless if I just start matchmaking and trying to play, or is there a better way to learn before diving straight into the game? (I have played some bot games and I have a friend who has offered to play with me and teach me a bit.)
Any help is great and it seems like it will be a game worth learning to play. Thanks GAF.
1.) Why do you not want to die in this game? I know that's a big thing. Only because it gives the other team gold or are there other reasons?
2.) What exactly do I want to be doing while I play and how do I help my team? I read up on it and I understand there are roles for certain heroes, but I'm just not exactly sure what I should be doing and what a good role for me would be.
3.) Is it going to be pointless if I just start matchmaking and trying to play, or is there a better way to learn before diving straight into the game? (I have played some bot games and I have a friend who has offered to play with me and teach me a bit.)
Any help is great and it seems like it will be a game worth learning to play. Thanks GAF.
1.) Essentially it removes gold from you, gives it to the people who killed you, also also gives them a fair amount of experience. Since you're out of the game for a while, you also are not gaining any experience while dead, so it widens the gap between you and the other team. Even at a relatively small imbalance of kills and deaths, the other team could have a pretty significant advantage depending on who was killing you.
2.) When starting out, I would suggest Support heroes, as they generally are useful even if the player doesn't do a very good job of getting gold or staying alive all the time. They tend to have abilities like healing, bonuses to other heroes, stuns, and sometimes various damage abilities that can significantly help the team kill an enemy hero/survive enemy hero attacks, even if they're not capable of killing enemy heroes on their own.
3.) I would probably take your friend up on their offer, since a lot of stuff is easier to learn in the context of a match with someone explaining things to you.
A good choice for your first match or two is someone like Lion, who can stun enemies, turn them into frogs, drain their mana (or get mana from the non player controlled enemies that hold staffs), and his ultimate lets him do a huge amount of damage to an enemy hero in one blast.
After 1-2 matches as him though, I would suggest choosing a variety of heroes between the Support, Ganker, Pusher, and Initiator roles to learn, so you have a good backing of experience, and then eventually try out the Carries once you feel comfortable last hitting/denying and staying alive.
Ah, thanks. Saw a few videos on joindota but most of them were the Razer tournament. Will keep my eye on it for the updates.
Piercedveil
Member
Very helpful. It seems pretty intimidating at the moment, but I think that is just because of all of the different things to think about and all of the terms that are important to the game. Thanks for the help. I'll definitely try to play with my friend soon and begin trying out many heroes.
I'll go through briefly and make a list of who you should try in the beginning-ish phase of learning:
Tiny
Omniknight
Sand King
Slardar
Tidehunter
Night Stalker
Spirit Breaker
Vengeful Spirit
Bounty Hunter
Bloodseeker
Crystal Maiden
Windrunner
Zeus
Lina
Shadow Shaman
Lich
Lion
Witch Doctor
Necrolyte
Warlock
Death Prophet
Dazzle
Dark Seer (a little more advanced as far as initiators go, but make sure you understand how to use his spells together)
Bane
When you eventually understand the basics and think you can play a carry, I suggest starting with Skeleton King.
I would agree with all of these except Night Stalker and Bounty Hunter.
I feel that there is generally a relatively high expectation that Night Stalker will get several kills during the first night and that Bounty Hunter doesn't have much of a benefit later on if he's not well farmed outside of keeping himself alive and casting track, which for a newer to mid range team, is probably not going to be as helpful.
But yeah, I think that's a really solid set of suggestions.
which reminds me something similar happened involving fatal bonds and veno ult during the defense
My argument for Night Stalker being on there is that it actually encourages players to go out and kill early on. I think a problem new players face is they can never figure out when they are supposed to try to attack someone, and get caught with their pants down somewhere, and killed lots of times. With Night Stalker, you have an entire team afraid of you for half of the game.
Told ya'll Axe is awesome.
You know people are furious when WD rage quits at the end and no one but prophet says gg :lol
That was an awesome comeback though. 7407266 is the match id for anyone who likes to watch AXE.
Thanks, great list of suggestions here.
While Nightstalker is a strong and easy to play ganker, I also feel he's not a great choice for a newbie without a reasonable level of experience with the game (100-200 games).
The reason is because of the time limit on his ganking, he needs to be constantly aware of potential gank targets. A good Nightstalker knows exactly how much he can push himself, such as running into groups or tower diving, to secure a kill. He will carry TPs all the time, and think nothing of porting to top after a successful gank at bot. He should be threatening all lanes simultaneously, because if he's not doing that then he's losing the farm race at mid.
The tower diving, especially, is something I feel newer players have trouble with. Nowadays, the first piece of advice experienced players give to new ones is to AVOID DYING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. This is hard to reconcile with Nightstalker's super aggressive play. Where an experienced players sees a quick in and out for a kill, a newer player might see a death, and avoid it.
And there's the level of expectations as Nirolak mentioned. Quite annoying to see a Nightstalker not getting easy ganks on the first night, because he's so dependent on that gank money to keep snowballing and preventing the other team from snowballing.
The reason is because of the time limit on his ganking, he needs to be constantly aware of potential gank targets. A good Nightstalker knows exactly how much he can push himself, such as running into groups or tower diving, to secure a kill. He will carry TPs all the time, and think nothing of porting to top after a successful gank at bot. He should be threatening all lanes simultaneously, because if he's not doing that then he's losing the farm race at mid.
The tower diving, especially, is something I feel newer players have trouble with. Nowadays, the first piece of advice experienced players give to new ones is to AVOID DYING AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE. This is hard to reconcile with Nightstalker's super aggressive play. Where an experienced players sees a quick in and out for a kill, a newer player might see a death, and avoid it.
And there's the level of expectations as Nirolak mentioned. Quite annoying to see a Nightstalker not getting easy ganks on the first night, because he's so dependent on that gank money to keep snowballing and preventing the other team from snowballing.
lol, awesome indeed.
axe sucks btw.
He's great. I played him mid and did so well.
tsunami643
Member
I've participated in some stomps before, but this was just straight up ridankulous. Our Omni was a god damn hero, I have no idea how he got matched to my level. Seriously, if you want to see how to play a hyper-offensive Omni mid, watch this game.
Are you on SA servers?
Naix is so much fun. I last played him back when he had one active skill and his ult was passive. After trying him out in an IH yesterday, and being mediocre with him, I played three games with him today and had a blast. That infest is a life saver, and makes you such a motherfucking beast.
I love getting a basher, hyperstone and a dagger on him. I tried phase and while the damage is nice and they're pretty awesome for chasing, I prefer PT on him. He's completely unstoppable late game.
I love getting a basher, hyperstone and a dagger on him. I tried phase and while the damage is nice and they're pretty awesome for chasing, I prefer PT on him. He's completely unstoppable late game.
dorkimoe
Member
Yay we finally won with Dorkimoe
3 cheers!
Just had another amazing game as Axe mid. Really bummed out that in the beginning my keys were being finicky and registering whenever they felt like it. I had to assured kills on a Pudge.
There was also a Necro making it a bit difficult for me. Was telling Sniper to go mid clearly after I had called mid. He told me Axe was the worst hero to be mid. He then told me to go back to LoL. Showed him who was the boss by saving him a number of times and getting the best score of the whole team ^^
There was also a Necro making it a bit difficult for me. Was telling Sniper to go mid clearly after I had called mid. He told me Axe was the worst hero to be mid. He then told me to go back to LoL. Showed him who was the boss by saving him a number of times and getting the best score of the whole team ^^
Just because you call it doesn't mean it's yours.
This x1000. Just because you called mid doesn't mean you should have it. Played a game where a Riki called mid even though we had a Pudge. Pudge would have been way more useful at mid.
Eh, he was willing to let me have it. That's why I mentioned Necro instead of Sniper, because he was the only one with the problem. Sniper and I agreed and then he just told me to go back to LoL and that Sniper was the worst. Certainly wont be following the advice of someone who's done nothing but insult me and a random ally.
Edit:
There's always agreements that could be had. I can definitely give up any spot if both I and whoever wants it agree to it. But if we're going to agree on spots that have been called, then I have no problem with continuing with what I was going to do from the beginning.
EdgecrusherLSU
Neo Member
Jesus Christ the beta seems to be full of douche-canoes. I can't remember the last game where at least one "teammate" didn't berate the whole team or the first death as the dreaded "newb".
Then they go on and on about how bad their team is in general chat until the round mercifully ends.
Does this beta have an ignore list or mute function? I haven't noticed it yet.
Then they go on and on about how bad their team is in general chat until the round mercifully ends.
Does this beta have an ignore list or mute function? I haven't noticed it yet.
Press Tab to see the list of players in game, and click the sound icon beside their name to mute them.
throwawayname
Member
Star Ladder is starting today with Navi vs Darer (might be postponed) but
"Tobi Wan will not be livestreaming the Star Series. At the moment, there don't seem to be any English streamers for the tournament."
"Tobi Wan will not be livestreaming the Star Series. At the moment, there don't seem to be any English streamers for the tournament."
Sand King actually is not easy and not for a beginner.
if you can't use epicenter well you lose a lot of potential and you become almost useless in teamfights.
Night Stalker isn't easy and I agree with Haly, you need to play him a lot (or play DOTA 2/watch DOTA 2 for some time) to be effective with him.
I wish Valve would come up with a way to pay broadcasters/streaming sites so we can watch pro-matches in-game and still be able to see and hear the broadcaster. Like ads linked with the broadcaster's google ads account or something, so they can get some of the share as well.
There are specific "broadcaster" spots and "spectator" spots in the current lobby system. I'm willing to bet that eventually, Valve wants people in the broadcaster spot to be able to use voice through DotaTV to all spectators.
Hopefully Valve thinks of some monetization strategy for streamers. I'd love for top players to make a living out of playing/streaming Dota, and tournament wins are not a reliable source of income (unless you're in Na'Vi). Top LoL streamers make loadsamoney. HotshotGG alone makes 6 figures from streaming ad revenue.
MustacheBandit_
Member
Axe mid whuuuu? Axe mid when you have a Sniper on you team?? Oh it must be painful playing in low tier matches....
X! defies your assertion.
So my first game trying this out I had no idea how hard this would be. Luckily for me I was on a team that knew what they were doing. This guy played Pudge alone and went 24-1.. He only died once cause 2 people jumped him and he killed them both shortly before he died... The guy on the other team says "WORTH IT" and I lol'ed.
bananabread
Member
People playing this genre of game put far too much stock into lane combinations, item builds, team composition etc when what they really ought to be focusing on is teamwork (warding, intiation, support during teamfights) and mechanics (farming, positioning, micro, map watching).
At the level the majority of people play at you can get away with building whatever you want on whichever hero you feel like so long as your team communicates, farms properly, works together, focuses damage and CC on the correct target(s), and bails each other out of trouble.
Instead you get the Axe who blinks into a 1v5 when you're all too far away to support him and goes 'WTF NOOB TEAM NO HELP'. Or the guy who blows all of his stuns on the tankiest hero on the enemy team simply because he's the only one in range and then blames your nonstandard item build for losing the team the game. Or the team that consistently clumps up in a desperate bid to get 2 or 3 more creep kills when there is an Earthshaker on the enemy team with blink/ulti up. The leaps of logic some people will make to justify terrible decisions are quite amazing:
- Me (Dazzle): "Why'd you walk back in? You were one hit from death and we could have killed him without you"
- Him: "I thought u would cast grave on me".
- Me: "But I used it to stop sniper getting ganked, you saw me do it, you must have known it was on cooldown. I am baffled as to why you walked back to your death for no reason."
- Him: "Why u use on sniper noob he still have 200hp. waste"
- His matchmaking buddies: "Fuking noob dazzle fuk u"
The fact that he walked into range of a melee hero on 40hp when he could have just as easily walked back and let us kill the enemy was ignored because I'd cost us the game by buying phase boots instead of mana boots and got my mek pretty late because I'd been buying nothing but wards and trying to avoid taking farm.
Obviously none of this applies to high level games, but the attitude of players in low level games is maddening. People need to spend less time analysing optimal DPS builds for their favourite stealthcarry hero and more time worrying about the actual game. I've been known to diss a guy's build (Mask of Madness on Sniper springs to mind), but generally it's a combination of an odd build AND terrible play that brings out my rage.
There was a player (Destiny) who went from Bronze to Platinum in SC2 building nothing but Zerg queens with superior macro in order to prove a similar point. I wish I could show 90% of the people I play with in matchmaking his videos.
/rant
At the level the majority of people play at you can get away with building whatever you want on whichever hero you feel like so long as your team communicates, farms properly, works together, focuses damage and CC on the correct target(s), and bails each other out of trouble.
Instead you get the Axe who blinks into a 1v5 when you're all too far away to support him and goes 'WTF NOOB TEAM NO HELP'. Or the guy who blows all of his stuns on the tankiest hero on the enemy team simply because he's the only one in range and then blames your nonstandard item build for losing the team the game. Or the team that consistently clumps up in a desperate bid to get 2 or 3 more creep kills when there is an Earthshaker on the enemy team with blink/ulti up. The leaps of logic some people will make to justify terrible decisions are quite amazing:
- Me (Dazzle): "Why'd you walk back in? You were one hit from death and we could have killed him without you"
- Him: "I thought u would cast grave on me".
- Me: "But I used it to stop sniper getting ganked, you saw me do it, you must have known it was on cooldown. I am baffled as to why you walked back to your death for no reason."
- Him: "Why u use on sniper noob he still have 200hp. waste"
- His matchmaking buddies: "Fuking noob dazzle fuk u"
The fact that he walked into range of a melee hero on 40hp when he could have just as easily walked back and let us kill the enemy was ignored because I'd cost us the game by buying phase boots instead of mana boots and got my mek pretty late because I'd been buying nothing but wards and trying to avoid taking farm.
Obviously none of this applies to high level games, but the attitude of players in low level games is maddening. People need to spend less time analysing optimal DPS builds for their favourite stealthcarry hero and more time worrying about the actual game. I've been known to diss a guy's build (Mask of Madness on Sniper springs to mind), but generally it's a combination of an odd build AND terrible play that brings out my rage.
There was a player (Destiny) who went from Bronze to Platinum in SC2 building nothing but Zerg queens with superior macro in order to prove a similar point. I wish I could show 90% of the people I play with in matchmaking his videos.
/rant
Gully State
Member
It's weird that there's all this material on the web about item builds/skill builds etc...but in a game that emphasizes coordination with teammates, there's very little info in the way of that when it comes to team fights or positioning during the midgame. Yes, I know it's hard to write but that in and of itself would go a long way into improving pubs.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Proper positioning in team fights is often a function of team composition, fight location and items built. I'd think such a guide would be impossible to write for those reasons. Too many variables to write something definitive or authoritative, which is what you're hinting around. It would be nice if it were possible...but too many possible combinations of characters, too many skill levels and too many items just mean too many possibilities.
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