Shane was blunt becuase it was tough decision but it needed to be done. Rick takes his sweet time going back and forth over the issue changing his mind and taking days. A good leader would have recognized Shane was right and let him do what he had to do. If they're going to work as a team Rick needed to let Shane have the floor. Should have let Shane pull the trigger in the barn and kill Randall. The majority of the group agreed that he had to be killed but Rick squashed the majority rule and gets final say on the matter. Great leader.
The Walking Dead - Season 2 - Sundays on AMC
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Shane was blunt becuase it was tough decision but it needed to be done. Rick takes his sweet time going back and forth over the issue changing his mind and taking days. A good leader would have recognized Shane was right and let him do what he had to do. If they're going to work as a team Rick needed to let Shane have the floor. Should have let Shane pull the trigger in the barn and kill Randall. The majority of the group agreed that he had to be killed but Rick squashed the majority rule and gets final say on the matter. Great leader.
walbertsmith
Member
Who cares about what their previous job was? Both the comics and the show allocated zero time to their hierarchy pre-apocalypse so why does it matter here?
Fact is Shane was trustworthy and a whole group of 10+ people followed his lead without question before Rick came back.
ryutaro's mama
Member
I think that's a big reason I didn't like him.
It was possible to protect Carl and Lori without having sex with her.
Feels like he had eyes on trying to replace Rick, even before the outbreak.
For those willing to risk the surprise factor of the finale,there's terrific rumour in the spoiler thread that implies the potential introduction of ain preparation of S3.fan favourite character
This is basically me:
Eewwww, get it out of here!
Nothighlightingnothighlightingnothighlighting
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It's been rumoured for the longest time, to be fair, so it is not much of a spoiler.
He did. That's what I found so unlikeable about him and that's what eventually drove him psychotic and ended up getting himself killed.
Team Shane has to realize that this is why both of them could not co-exist going forward. There was just no way to make it work since Shane was completely obsessed with Rick's family. Shane could have been satisfied banging Andrea on the side or any of the other females in the group, but what he really wanted was Rick's family, so one of them had to go.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Ha!
Or the part where Shane was saying that if Hershel wouldn't co-operate, they should consider killing him? A move that would have done irreparable damage to the group, including Hershel's family? This was a key moment where Rick's diplomacy proved to be the better solution for all parties rather than taking the "fuck it, I'm just going on instinct" shit.
Rick showed in the bar that he can act on instinct when necessary as well. There is a balance with Rick that was absent with Shane.
Rick isn't always right, but he thinks situations through, whereas Shane just steamrolls through, using his badassery.
It matters because, in the end, Shane never truly evolved beyond Rick. He never achieve the balance necessary to be a great leader and again, just because he lead the group until Rick came back means nothing.
It's like saying your big brother watched out for you until your father returned. He did a fine job but in the end, the cream rose to the top.
For those willing to risk the surprise factor of the finale, there's terrific rumour in the spoiler thread that implies the potential introduction of ain preparation of S3.fan favourite character
This is basically me:
Who
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I don't want to ruin the surprise, so you should google that (or ask in the spoiler thread).
Cornballer
Member
Please keep the spoiler talk in the spoiler thread. That's what it's for. Thanks.
Your first two questions will be explained in the season finale, according to Kirkman.
The flashes of red and zombies eating meat is apparently what you experience just before the disease takes over your brain. I think it was mainly there for show and to add an extra layer of suspense to indicate something was still going on with Shane.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Short story to your first question is:
People are theorizing that the CDC guy told Rick that everyone is already infected and when they die, they turn, no matter what, hence the name 'The Walking Dead'.
ZedIndyLil
Member
I have to say that the last 4 episodes have been a vast improvement over the rest of the show--not perfect, but the best since the series premiere. Even the "talky" parts have been better and more focused than before. I'm not sure what that says about Frank Darabont, but whatever, let's look towards the future.
Hopefully S3 can keep a greater sense of momentum and not get stuck in any ruts like the first half of S2. And hopefully penny-pinching AMC won't do anything catastrophic like they (almost) did with Mad Men.
Hopefully S3 can keep a greater sense of momentum and not get stuck in any ruts like the first half of S2. And hopefully penny-pinching AMC won't do anything catastrophic like they (almost) did with Mad Men.
walbertsmith
Member
Shane's problems stemmed from Rick standing in the way of his relationship with Lori and Carl. They established and reinforced this constantly: at the very beginning of the show, at the end of S1 at the CDC, all throughout this season and at the very end scene between the two. Never *once* did they mention their previous hierarchy of "sheriff/deputy" having an impact on their relationship.... not once. So how is it relevant again?
As for Shane not "evolving"... well, maybe he didn't have a chance to? Like I just mentioned above, Shane's relationship with Lori and Carl is the impetus for his mental breakdown and they reinforce this several times throughout the show: butting heads with Rick when he came back, attempting rape at the CDC, killing Otis to save Carl, then Lori opening up to him was the final straw that pushed him over. Notice also how many times they showed Carl confiding in Shane, not Rick? They are constantly reemphasizing the bond that Shane had with Lori and Carl had before Rick came back.
Yes, Shane went crazy and let emotions cloud his judgement. But that doesn't change the fact that before this gigantic emotional trauma affected him, he was an effective and trusted leader over people he knew and complete strangers. All of his decisions can be attributed to his undying devotion to trying to win Lori and Carl back... and as we all can see, making leadership decisions based on emotional trauma is going to be problem.
Escape Goat
Member
Was Shane a zombie in the barn? lol It looked like he was ready to take a big bite out of that prisoner's head.
ryutaro's mama
Member
That was Shane's biggest problem. He rubbed another man's rhubarb. Like I said before, it was possible to protect Lori and Carl without sleeping with Lori. His actions after Rick's return show that his ulterior motives were to replace Rick all along. Rick, in spite of all this, made an effort to bury it (following their skirmish at the yard) Rick was trying to be the better man but Shane's desire to unseat Rick completely was his undoing.
Sure it was. In the banter they would have in the woods and on drives (recounting previous stories before the outbreak) it was clear to me that Rick was the alpha in that relationship and Shane was always bucking for some comeuppance. Rick "dying" and the world going to shit was Shane's chance. At his core, he is an opportunist.
This shows how petulant and unfit to lead Shane really was. He was fine when Rick was "dead" and he was getting his way. As soon as some semblance of the previous world and order returned (in the form of Rick) he freaked. The group didn't know Shane or his flaws, but Rick did and all the outbreak did was emphasize those shortcomings in Shane. Rick's return destroyed the fantasy for Shane where he was the unchallenged leader of the herd.
Yeah, that is no different than going to your uncle that you feel you can talk to and get the response you're looking for, rather than deal with the your father. Shane was the outlet for Carl in times that he couldn't speak to his father. He played to themes that would excite a young boy, like being tough and whatnot. It's not surprising that Carl would cling to a person that he thought saved his and his mother's life when they thought that Rick was dead. It doesn't mean Carl saw Shane as his "real" father.
Shane's problem is that emotion clouds his judgment and it was emotion that he should have never pursued, imo. Zombie apocalypse or not, I would NEVER try to replace my friend and bed his wife. EVER. Shane's moral compass was suspect and in the end, when his fantasy came back to earth, he couldn't deal.
Dutch Gronk
Banned
?TheJollyCorner
Member
one thing that's strange to me is the, uh, 'incubation' time of the virus. It seems pretty inconsistent.
i.e. It takes Amy hours to 'turn' in Season One, but it only takes Shane a few minutes. Amy was actually bitten by the walkers and Shane was knifed. I guess it might be case by case based on a person's genetics, maybe? I mean, Amy was dead (apparently) pretty quickly after the final neck bite, as Shane was by the knife around the heart area.
Maybe I'm looking too deep into this (the normal answer is "LULZ DRAMATIC WRITING!"), but it always bothers me with zombie fiction.
i.e. It takes Amy hours to 'turn' in Season One, but it only takes Shane a few minutes. Amy was actually bitten by the walkers and Shane was knifed. I guess it might be case by case based on a person's genetics, maybe? I mean, Amy was dead (apparently) pretty quickly after the final neck bite, as Shane was by the knife around the heart area.
Maybe I'm looking too deep into this (the normal answer is "LULZ DRAMATIC WRITING!"), but it always bothers me with zombie fiction.
MisterHero
Super Member
they suggested this in the CDC episodeone thing that's strange to me is the, uh, 'incubation' time of the virus. It seems pretty inconsistent.
i.e. It takes Amy hours to 'turn' in Season One, but it only takes Shane a few minutes. Amy was actually bitten by the walkers and Shane was knifed. I guess it might be case by case based on a person's genetics, maybe? I mean, Amy was dead (apparently) pretty quickly after the final neck bite, as Shane was by the knife around the heart area.
Maybe I'm looking too deep into this (the normal answer is "LULZ DRAMATIC WRITING!"), but it always bothers me with zombie fiction.
one thing that's strange to me is the, uh, 'incubation' time of the virus. It seems pretty inconsistent.
i.e. It takes Amy hours to 'turn' in Season One, but it only takes Shane a few minutes. Amy was actually bitten by the walkers and Shane was knifed. I guess it might be case by case based on a person's genetics, maybe? I mean, Amy was dead (apparently) pretty quickly after the final neck bite, as Shane was by the knife around the heart area.
Maybe I'm looking too deep into this (the normal answer is "LULZ DRAMATIC WRITING!"), but it always bothers me with zombie fiction.
It wasn't hours. It was seconds for each of them after they died.
Walking Dead has to be the bloodiest show on TV. That close-up shot of the zombie's head being smashed with the shovel was completely superfluous.
one thing that's strange to me is the, uh, 'incubation' time of the virus. It seems pretty inconsistent.
i.e. It takes Amy hours to 'turn' in Season One, but it only takes Shane a few minutes. Amy was actually bitten by the walkers and Shane was knifed. I guess it might be case by case based on a person's genetics, maybe? I mean, Amy was dead (apparently) pretty quickly after the final neck bite, as Shane was by the knife around the heart area.
Maybe I'm looking too deep into this (the normal answer is "LULZ DRAMATIC WRITING!"), but it always bothers me with zombie fiction.
It's like Alien vs Predator, where the people would chest burst within seconds of waking up from the facehugger.
Doesn't bother me too much though. You could just say it is due to longer exposure to their kind.
It was pretty awesome. Reminiscent of the gore in Drive, which obviously isn't the most gory movie out there. But the head explosion made me think of that.
Valkyr Junkie
Member
I'm surprised to see so many people aren't familiar with the Romero concept of zombies, and everyone basically already being infected and/or turning due to any kind of death.
I'm still amazed at the love for Shane. The actor playing him was abysmal.
I still say I love the idea of the Shane character much more than the execution. Hopefully the next human protagonist is better cast, better written and better acted.
Now if only the season finale kills off Andrea, Carl, and Lori in one fell swoop, this show may yet be fully redeemed.
I still say I love the idea of the Shane character much more than the execution. Hopefully the next human protagonist is better cast, better written and better acted.
Now if only the season finale kills off Andrea, Carl, and Lori in one fell swoop, this show may yet be fully redeemed.
I assumed it had to do with him becoming a zombie. Just seemed like some flashy footage to show something weird was happening.
No, Amy was a couple hours. Attacked and biten at night, "woke up" in the day. At least some passage of time.
Shane's turning time was unknown, but not long. Depends on how long it takes Carl to make it to that field. Rick, on the other hand, went from standing up and yelling, to sitting back on Shane's body.
Right, but she didn't die and then sit there for hours before she reanimated did she? It's been a while since I've seen it so my memory is rusty.
TheJollyCorner
Member
in that episode one of the characters (Lori maybe?) mentions that "she's been like that all night", in reference to Andrea sitting there with her dead sister.
Angry Fork
Member
As a member of Team Shane, I felt the pain, but it was necessary. He got out of hand. But as the boss and most interesting member of the group it's sad to see him go.
Can't wait for the next ep. I knew about the fact that
so that wasn't a shocker for me but I'm glad they've finally revealed it somewhat.
I really hope they go back to a city soon. I'm tired of the farm already.
Can't wait for the next ep. I knew about the fact that
everyone is already infected, they just become zombies upon death
I really hope they go back to a city soon. I'm tired of the farm already.
I guess I need to watch season 1 again.
BattleMonkey
Member
one thing that's strange to me is the, uh, 'incubation' time of the virus. It seems pretty inconsistent.
i.e. It takes Amy hours to 'turn' in Season One, but it only takes Shane a few minutes. Amy was actually bitten by the walkers and Shane was knifed. I guess it might be case by case based on a person's genetics, maybe? I mean, Amy was dead (apparently) pretty quickly after the final neck bite, as Shane was by the knife around the heart area.
Maybe I'm looking too deep into this (the normal answer is "LULZ DRAMATIC WRITING!"), but it always bothers me with zombie fiction.
It's how it's always been in zombie genre material. Zombiefication is always tied to when it's convenient to the plot.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Seriously.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Check the spoiler thread if you want your mind blown.
walbertsmith
Member
Agreed, but it doesn't refute my point. My whole point was that Shane's love for Rick's family was his downfall... *not* about some sort of authoritary relationship stemming from their prior standing as cops.
Were there "alpha male" butting of heads in terms of how to lead the group and what decisions were needed to be made? Absolutely, but the basis was still Shane's feelings for Rick's family.
Those are YOUR projections, not the show's. Rick's whole MO (in both the show and the comics) was trying to make the whole group happy, not to be some sort of dominant leader. In fact, IIRC, they agreed to be co-leaders of the group (or some sort of unspoken understanding of such) in the first season. The crux of my whole argument was refuting your claim that Rick and Shane's relationship had a basis in "pulling rank" before the apocalypse. Again, neither person mentioned rank at all *anywhere*.
Again, *your* projections, not the show's. Shane was Rick's best friend and Rick didn't want to believe what Shane became until the very last moment. Shane threw a WRENCH AT RICK'S HEAD and Rick still wanted to reconcile with Shane. In fact, it wasn't until Shane pointed a gun at him that Rick finally figured it out. You say that Rick was aware of his flaws? Nope, in fact the opposite was true.. Rick was blind to his flaws until the very end because of his loyalty to him as his best friend. You've completely misinterpreted their relationship.
I don't deny that at all (in fact I agree with all of it), and I never said Carl saw Shane as his father... he saw him as his friend. Still doesn't change my argument though... that Shane's bond with Carl and Lori were so strong that it shattered his world when Rick came back.... not some sort of sheriff & deputy relationship.
While I agree that taking over a friend's family is low, the situation was entirely believable. Rick was dead for weeks, and it's not such an unusual circumstance that it hasn't happened in other, non-zombie situations. It's not farfetched in the slightest for people to get closer in high intensity, traumatic situations. Do people fall in love with their best friend's SO? All the time, in fact. Did Shane do this when Rick was alive? No, of course not. So is he a terrible person for falling in love with someone? No, of course not.
Now, are his actions after Rick came back deplorable and emotionally unstable? Yes, absolutely. But were any of his actions predicated on any sort of sheriff/deputy relationship with Rick before the zombies arrived? Not in the slightest.
Yes, but I'll reiterate that the spoilers are major spoilers. It's obviously in the spoiler thread, but people shouldn't expect something minor. Major plot points and characters being spoiled. Since I read the comic, it made me very, very happy. Hoping the spoilers are true.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Everything up until Shane killed the kid was crap, everything after that was awesome.
I assume everyone is infected and you just turn when you die at this point supposing your brain is still intact? Pretty cool.
Shane/Rick scene was great. The lame "flashes" of him becoming a zombie felt out of place, but on the whole, really well acted and beautifully shot.
Next episode is going to be pretty bad ass, I imagine.
Also, I said last week I was worried because they killed off one of the best characters and a week later there's another gone. Like I said last week, I love that they're killing people off, but soon we're only going to be left with the shit ones. That's a major problem I think.
I assume everyone is infected and you just turn when you die at this point supposing your brain is still intact? Pretty cool.
Shane/Rick scene was great. The lame "flashes" of him becoming a zombie felt out of place, but on the whole, really well acted and beautifully shot.
Next episode is going to be pretty bad ass, I imagine.
Also, I said last week I was worried because they killed off one of the best characters and a week later there's another gone. Like I said last week, I love that they're killing people off, but soon we're only going to be left with the shit ones. That's a major problem I think.
José Mourinho
cocknose
Good episode as usual. Pumped for next weeks!
I'd be inclined to disagree, particularly because Rick had asked Andrea to watch Shane. I think Rick is aware of Shane's problems, just maybe not of the extent of them. In fact, I think the relationship was a mix of both your argument and the one you replied too.
BattleMonkey
Member
They will introduce new characters. And kill more characters. A cycle that will repeat often.
Can we please please please stop with these kind of posts? This one is relatively harmless, but is just as unnecessary.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
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