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Dota 2 Beta Thread: [Brewmaster]

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Proper positioning in team fights is often a function of team composition, fight location and items built. I'd think such a guide would be impossible to write for those reasons. Too many variables to write something definitive or authoritative, which is what you're hinting around. It would be nice if it were possible...but too many possible combinations of characters, too many skill levels and too many items just mean too many possibilities.

True, I don't think a written guide could cover it but I think videos would be a good way to demonstrate it...Like proper ganking formations and such...Even in a team fight, if I'm not playing support or initiator where I have a very defined role in the fight, I run around like a chicken with its head cut off. Even if fights are dynamic, there should be basic principles to fall back on when you feel lost..
 
There are specific "broadcaster" spots and "spectator" spots in the current lobby system. I'm willing to bet that eventually, Valve wants people in the broadcaster spot to be able to use voice through DotaTV to all spectators.
Yes, I know that. ofc valve wants it, and now you can also see (ingame) the broadcaster screen and hear his voice if he uses in-voice, so you could say that all that is left is tobi/other broadcasters using it. But it won't work unless the broadcaster or whoever gets the money now still gets it when they leave twitch.tv/own3d.tv.

That means at least one of these things:
  • Ads for everyone unless you pay:
  • Fees if you want to, for exemple, watch tobi's streams (with voice and camera)
  • Fees for a group of broadcasters (joindota for exemple, but I don't really know how that works)
  • League packs.
These could probably be payed monthly/by match/by League or who knows. I'm just brainstorming and thinking that I'd probably gladly pay to watch those things, specially with in-game interactivity and without stream lags.
 
Yes, I know that. ofc valve wants it, and now you can also see (ingame) the broadcaster screen and hear his voice if he uses in-voice, so you could say that all that is left is tobi/other broadcasters using it. But it won't work unless the broadcaster or whoever gets the money now still gets it when they leave twitch.tv/own3d.tv.

That means at least one of these things:
  • Ads for everyone unless you pay:
  • Fees if you want to, for exemple, watch tobi's streams (with voice and camera)
  • Fees for a group of broadcasters (joindota for exemple, but I don't really know how that works)
  • League packs.
These could probably be payed monthly/by match/by League or who knows. I'm just brainstorming and thinking that I'd probably gladly pay to watch those things, specially with in-game interactivity and without stream lags.
How would ads work though? You're basically constantly in the game which means they would have to play ads during a match and that would be fucking stupid. Also seeing how the amount of spectators made the game lag so much (at least it was partially at fault), I don't see this being used anytime soon.
 
How would ads work though? You're basically constantly in the game which means they would have to play ads during a match and that would be fucking stupid. Also seeing how the amount of spectators made the game lag so much (at least it was partially at fault), I don't see this being used anytime soon.
As Ikuu said. DOTATV is made in a way to avoid these issues, there are more servers the more the spectors.
And don't you get ads on own3d/twitch.tv? Valve can change the UI for dotatv if they want to so it'll probably be better than those steam overlaps.


What's the benefit of joining via IP? You get to see stuff in real time?
It uses way less bandwidth for the viewer, its real time and you're not stuck with the broadcaster's camera.
 
People playing this genre of game put far too much stock into lane combinations, item builds, team composition etc when what they really ought to be focusing on is teamwork (warding, intiation, support during teamfights) and mechanics (farming, positioning, micro, map watching).

At the level the majority of people play at you can get away with building whatever you want on whichever hero you feel like so long as your team communicates, farms properly, works together, focuses damage and CC on the correct target(s), and bails each other out of trouble.

Instead you get the Axe who blinks into a 1v5 when you're all too far away to support him and goes 'WTF NOOB TEAM NO HELP'. Or the guy who blows all of his stuns on the tankiest hero on the enemy team simply because he's the only one in range and then blames your nonstandard item build for losing the team the game. Or the team that consistently clumps up in a desperate bid to get 2 or 3 more creep kills when there is an Earthshaker on the enemy team with blink/ulti up. The leaps of logic some people will make to justify terrible decisions are quite amazing:

- Me (Dazzle): "Why'd you walk back in? You were one hit from death and we could have killed him without you"
- Him: "I thought u would cast grave on me".
- Me: "But I used it to stop sniper getting ganked, you saw me do it, you must have known it was on cooldown. I am baffled as to why you walked back to your death for no reason."
- Him: "Why u use on sniper noob he still have 200hp. waste"
- His matchmaking buddies: "Fuking noob dazzle fuk u"

The fact that he walked into range of a melee hero on 40hp when he could have just as easily walked back and let us kill the enemy was ignored because I'd cost us the game by buying phase boots instead of mana boots and got my mek pretty late because I'd been buying nothing but wards and trying to avoid taking farm.

Obviously none of this applies to high level games, but the attitude of players in low level games is maddening. People need to spend less time analysing optimal DPS builds for their favourite stealthcarry hero and more time worrying about the actual game. I've been known to diss a guy's build (Mask of Madness on Sniper springs to mind), but generally it's a combination of an odd build AND terrible play that brings out my rage.

There was a player (Destiny) who went from Bronze to Platinum in SC2 building nothing but Zerg queens with superior macro in order to prove a similar point. I wish I could show 90% of the people I play with in matchmaking his videos.

/rant

I had a game once where I was Dazzle, and there was an Axe (who was Russian) jungling. He kept rushing into 2 heroes by himself. However all I got was Cyrillic text, no ping, no voice, nothing. There was a guy on our team that spoke English and understood the Cyrillic text and he said they were calling me a retard, but he agreed with me that he should have given me a better indication that he was doing that instead of shouting at me in a language I don't understand.
 
I think monetizing tournament viewing would probably work. And it would be pretty cool, I'd pay to watch the streams ingame.
Like paying $15 or something to be able to watch every single game of a tournament - in DoTA2, with casters in the game and so on.


Also about that putting stock into certain things extra, what Bananabread said, is very true. But its not easy to just get better and do certain things right. Putting yourself at the right place at the right time is one of the hardest skills in the game and takes a long time to learn.

Its much easier to learn that a bkb helps you block this, so you use it. Or 2 heroes have ultimates that have good synergy together. Or counter picking; slarder instantly helps against stealth heroes without much effort.

I do agree though, people put a lot of blame into that stuff, when it is probably their basic skills and teamwork that were at fault.
 
I think monetizing tournament viewing would probably work. And it would be pretty cool, I'd pay to watch the streams ingame.
Like paying $15 or something to be able to watch every single game of a tournament - in DoTA2, with casters in the game and so on.


Also about that putting stock into certain things extra, what Bananabread said, is very true. But its not easy to just get better and do certain things right. Putting yourself at the right place at the right time is one of the hardest skills in the game and takes a long time to learn.

Its much easier to learn that a bkb helps you block this, so you use it. Or 2 heroes have ultimates that have good synergy together. Or counter picking; slarder instantly helps against stealth heroes without much effort.

I do agree though, people put a lot of blame into that stuff, when it is probably their basic skills and teamwork that were at fault.

SHUT UP PHANDY YOU'LL GIVE THEM IDEAS
 
Yes, I know that. ofc valve wants it, and now you can also see (ingame) the broadcaster screen and hear his voice if he uses in-voice, so you could say that all that is left is tobi/other broadcasters using it. But it won't work unless the broadcaster or whoever gets the money now still gets it when they leave twitch.tv/own3d.tv.

That means at least one of these things:
  • Ads for everyone unless you pay:
  • Fees if you want to, for exemple, watch tobi's streams (with voice and camera)
  • Fees for a group of broadcasters (joindota for exemple, but I don't really know how that works)
  • League packs.
These could probably be payed monthly/by match/by League or who knows. I'm just brainstorming and thinking that I'd probably gladly pay to watch those things, specially with in-game interactivity and without stream lags.
Yeah, I suppose...I leave this kinda stuff for Valve to figure out though. They have some smart dudes working there.
 
I had a game once where I was Dazzle, and there was an Axe (who was Russian) jungling. He kept rushing into 2 heroes by himself. However all I got was Cyrillic text, no ping, no voice, nothing. There was a guy on our team that spoke English and understood the Cyrillic text and he said they were calling me a retard, but he agreed with me that he should have given me a better indication that he was doing that instead of shouting at me in a language I don't understand.

These are reasons why I don't play Dazzle much anymore, even though I like the hero. People run off and do crazy things expecting you to keep Shallow Grave up on them all the time, with no regard to other players or cooldowns. I'm having much more success with Crystal Maiden as a support lately anyway.
 
As Ikuu said. DOTATV is made in a way to avoid these issues, there are more servers the more the spectors.
And don't you get ads on own3d/twitch.tv? Valve can change the UI for dotatv if they want to so it'll probably be better than those steam overlaps.
Ads are usually done by the broadcaster before/after/between the games though. If it's ingame, you're always ingame which doesn't give anytime for ads.
 
These are reasons why I don't play Dazzle much anymore, even though I like the hero. People run off and do crazy things expecting you to keep Shallow Grave up on them all the time, with no regard to other players or cooldowns. I'm having much more success with Crystal Maiden as a support lately anyway.

I dunno...every Crystal Maiden match I've played/spectated/been a part of..she's the primary target no matter what it seems.
 
Ads are usually done by the broadcaster before/after/between the games though. If it's ingame, you're always ingame which doesn't give anytime for ads.
If I have to refresh a stream window midgame I'll get the ads nevertheless, won't I? What I'm saying is: If you control the UI, there are plenty of spaces to place ads. And they'll be better than the overlapping we're getting right now.
 
Axe mid whuuuu? Axe mid when you have a Sniper on you team?? Oh it must be painful playing in low tier matches....

Except I don't play low tier matches and even Milkman has showed us that even in hight tier matches an Axe at mid can be a legit strategy. Make whatever you want out of that.
 
If for some reason you don't learn Drow's frost arrows abil, can you buy an orb item and have its effect work?
Even if you level it, on any shot where you don't use frost arrows your orb will work as normal. Most Drows end up getting lifesteal even when leveling frost arrows, then just manually use a frost arrow now and then for the slow. It's not necessary to put it on autocast!
 
True, I don't think a written guide could cover it but I think videos would be a good way to demonstrate it...Like proper ganking formations and such...Even in a team fight, if I'm not playing support or initiator where I have a very defined role in the fight, I run around like a chicken with its head cut off. Even if fights are dynamic, there should be basic principles to fall back on when you feel lost..

Speaking of ganks, what's interesting about ganking that I've found so far is that most of the time, ganks that fail are often poorly communicated. mid comes to gank, but the top/bottom aren't prepared for one reason or another (perhaps low health, perhaps low mana) and by the time the gank arrives, they're either stuck in limbo waiting for the teammates to recover, or they go balls-out and fail...the end result being wasted farming time and wasted opportunity (and maybe even lost gold for the ganking team, depending).

Other times, the timing just isn't good. The gank gets seen coming giving the enemy time to retreat, or the gank (or a teammate) jumps the gun and pushes the enemy out of optimal position. Much of which comes down to position and communication. Proper communication is something that can always be practiced. A ping sometimes isn't enough to let your teammates know of your intentions.

All that said, I would like to see a tutorial on how to best gank when near enemy towers. Say...early on (<15 minutes) near the tier 1 stairs on either lane...and hypothetically without a stun character available. Sometimes it's not always clear to me (or teammates) when chasing [and possibly taking tower damage] is appropriate and how to gauge it. I assume chasing past a tower is okay if your creeps are currently drawing tower fire...but to date, I almost always stop chasing at the tower for fear of taking too much fire and getting killed.
 
Dominated a pudge in mid as axe, he had to bring in a support to help him hahaha. We lost because the team wouldn't push and VS was building as a carry. Got outcarried by an ursa and a morph.
 
Speaking of ganks, what's interesting about ganking that I've found so far is that most of the time, ganks that fail are often poorly communicated. mid comes to gank, but the top/bottom aren't prepared for one reason or another (perhaps low health, perhaps low mana) and by the time the gank arrives, they're either stuck in limbo waiting for the teammates to recover, or they go balls-out and fail...the end result being wasted farming time and wasted opportunity (and maybe even lost gold for the ganking team, depending).

Other times, the timing just isn't good. The gank gets seen coming giving the enemy time to retreat, or the gank (or a teammate) jumps the gun and pushes the enemy out of optimal position. Much of which comes down to position and communication. Proper communication is something that can always be practiced. A ping sometimes isn't enough to let your teammates know of your intentions.

All that said, I would like to see a tutorial on how to best gank when near enemy towers. Say...early on (<15 minutes) near the tier 1 stairs on either lane...and hypothetically without a stun character available. Sometimes it's not always clear to me (or teammates) when chasing [and possibly taking tower damage] is appropriate and how to gauge it. I assume chasing past a tower is okay if your creeps are currently drawing tower fire...but to date, I almost always stop chasing at the tower for fear of taking too much fire and getting killed.

Yeah I too want a video talking about this. I think the concept of positioning for ganks isn't that character specific either. On the flip side, it would help recognize when I'm in a bad position while last hitting as well.

Speaking of positioning, I don't know why it didn't occur to me before as it's so obvious now but it wasn't until I watch procarbine's "how to hook" video (love the illustrations btw) did I realize when laning against a pudge, making sure a creep wave is between you and him makes hooking significantly more difficult for the pudge player (seems to work well at least against the pudge players I've faced so far).
 
Dota 2, fucking awesome!

200 people watching an invoker throw a tantrum and intentionally feeding, people spectating really got an eye for quality.
 
Is their a way to make the pressing the abilities keys make certain abilities toggable, for example drow's frost arrows? Without using alt.
 
Dominated a pudge in mid as axe, he had to bring in a support to help him hahaha. We lost because the team wouldn't push and VS was building as a carry. Got outcarried by an ursa and a morph.

Another believer ^^

Seriously, why do/did people consider Axe a bad hero? I remember no one wanted to play him.

I learned that he's pretty damn amazing and he can seriously save the team and change things in his favor.

Had a match against a Razor at mid. We were losing hope because they were just dominating us. They got a big lead on us pretty early in the game and Sven was getting all mad at the 3:54 mark. I remember this because that was the fastest time I've seen someone already calling the game.

Then after a while I got my Vanguard and blink dagger, and I just had so much fun. Then after that I got that blade mail that returns damage and it was even more fun. Was a really frustrating match, like REALLY REALLY frustrating, and so glad we got that win. Axe is shaping to be my favorite initiator.
 
Another believer ^^

Seriously, why do/did people consider Axe a bad hero? I remember no one wanted to play him.

I learned that he's pretty damn amazing and he can seriously save the team and change things in his favor.

Had a match against a Razor at mid. We were losing hope because they were just dominating us. They got a big lead on us pretty early in the game and Sven was getting all mad at the 3:54 mark. I remember this because that was the fastest time I've seen someone already calling the game.

Then after a while I got my Vanguard and blink dagger, and I just had so much fun. Then after that I got that blade mail that returns damage and it was even more fun. Was a really frustrating match, like REALLY REALLY frustrating, and so glad we got that win. Axe is shaping to be my favorite initiator.

Because after the taunt if people just ignore him he's not gonna do anything in a teamfight.

Meanwhile heroes like Tidehunter after using their ultimate are just gonna walk around, kraken shell disables and anchor smash every couple of seconds.
 
After 6 painful losses as Sand King (and one as Venge sigh), I finally won a game with him.
It was really just the entire team getting carried by Ursa (and a little bit less by Juggernaut) even if we didn't do anything exactly wrong, it was simply him doing stuff right.
After I helped him get some early kills he went Rosh pretty fast and from then on he just ate everyone he came in contact with.

Either way, it's fine.
I have some more confidence in the laning phase now and a bit in roaming; the mid and late are a little bit more problematic because I really suck at landing epicenters especially without dagger. Even with it, the situation isn't really that good.
I keep on miscalculating the distance and I waste 3 pulses just to get in range of the stun or of the blink.

I also did my first real juking ever at 40hp with a pudge basically in my face, dodged a close range hook, went behind the trees in front of the secret shop, waited to see what side he went into, went the other then hid in the jungle while dodging another hook. Thankfully I had boots, otherwise I would have died to rot before reaching the shop.
 
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