Kid can shoot
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2012 NBA Mar |OT| Knicks fans now drinking JD in straight shots
- Thread starter reilo
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Kid can shoot
Jefferson sucks for all the reasons that you know Jefferson sucks. And you're acting as if this experiment hasn't been going on for a year and the Jazz haven't shown that they essentially traded D Will for a bad PG and two bench players who have potential, but on your team, are going to be bench players for the foreseeable future.
Again, that would be like trading Pau Gasol for a backup SG and a backup Center.
What you forget, is that there was no pressure to trade D Will. The entire league, and the players involved were blindsided. Deron didn't ask for a trade like Melo or Dwight. If the Jazz had the patience to shop D Will for a season, a bunch of teams would have put together packages that would be better than what the Nets ultimately put together.
You just compared Favors to Kobe? BAHAHAHAH. Good luck with that one buddy.
Also, West did the deal when he knew he could replace Divac with Shaq. Jazz did the deal, when they knew they could replace D-Will with Devin Harris
Syphon Filter
Member
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Yeah, but Butler was a superstar back when the Lakers traded for him (9 PPG on 38% shooting and no threes or free throws)
So since you basically have NO defense for your trade besides "Give Favors time, he might be Kobe good"
You're now bashing a Lakers trade that happened almost a decade ago? I agree that trade was a bad trade. The Jazz / NJ trade is still complete ass for the Jazz and you've made 0 points to prove otherwise other than some veiled troll attempt that it's worth trading superstars for players who ride the bench behind one of your best players because.... look KOBE lol
Why are you acting as if Utah HAD to make that deal? AS OF TODAY, that trade is ass. Everyone thought the Memphis / Gasol trade was ass until time passed and they picked up Z-Bo with the cap space, and Best-Gasol became Best-Gasol on a cheaper contract and people realized it was a good trade for both teams.
the Jazz right now are in the ASS stage and the gem of their trade rides the pine behind their best player. If you flip Favors for a great PG / SG combo then we'll talk. As of now...complete ass of a trade
In Vag's world, players don't age or get better. Thanks for the knowledge, bro.
And on a side note, no one take Hoopshype seriously ever again. They just put up some shit about Diaw for Petro, Farmar, and Houston's 1st. The Knicks got a better chance at being a 6 seed.
And on a side note, no one take Hoopshype seriously ever again. They just put up some shit about Diaw for Petro, Farmar, and Houston's 1st. The Knicks got a better chance at being a 6 seed.
Nobody in the league thinks of Favors and Kanter as just "bench players with potential". They hold very decent trade value, it won't disappear like that. Al Jefferson is a 15M$ expirer in 2013 who averages 20/10 until then. I don't think you realize that Utah has options. Favors and Kanter are going to be good to great starters at some point in their career, everyone knows that. And you're forgetting something: Jazz have a lottery pick coming from the trade (Warriors' pick, top 7 protected).
LegendofJoe
Member
Receiving 2 lottery picks and a decent player, at that time at least, for one great player isn't a bad deal vahagn. They may have gotten a better deal from someone else, but I sincerely doubt it would have been as much of an improvement as you're suggesting.
what the hell are you talking about? You're the one who said the Lakers don't make those trades.
Deron was leaving after this year, we werent going to win anything with that team, we got 2 players with potential and decent trade bait and another pick. What the hell are you not understanding? You bring up that Denver-NYK trade like Denver got away with robbery.. and fail to actually look at what they got.
Who's that "decent" player? Favors is more than that. Kanter has great value. And a lottery pick is still coming their way in 2012 or in 2013.
I'm basically discounting Harris, but you're forgetting a part of the deal. Everyone in the discussion is, here.
LegendofJoe
Member
It's Devin Harris. Favors and Kanter hold a lot of value, I'm definitely not questioning that.
LegendofJoe said:
Granted. As I've said countless times. When they become great starters or get traded for great pieces, we can upgrade the trade. But it doesn't always work out that way. Ask NO how they feel about EG walking away after the season, playing 0 games this season, and the Minny pick not being as valuable as they thought.
Lottery Picks recently haven't meant much because most have been bad basketball players. Ask the Wolves how valuable Johnny Flynn or Wes Johnson have been?
I don't see Favors / Kanter replacing Jefferson / Milsap for at least 2 years, in which case Favors should be off his rookie contract.
I'm talking about what is happening now, and what's happened for the last year. You guys are all talking about best case future scenarios. When we get to that point, we'll re-evaluate the trade.
So.... because you don't see those under 20 players getting better, they must be garbage, forever, and have ruined the deal? AND this is somehow WORSE than getting nothing for Deron who was apparently on the way out of Utah regardless? You're also trying to say that lottery picks are somehow less valuable because they don't always work out.. but while you say that, you somehow fail to acknowledge that that is where the majority of good players come from - the lottery - is that what you're saying Vag?
And he's a place holder. They still essentially got 3 lotto picks out of it.
Funny shit is how LA was scrapping with Riley for weeks over including Wade's scrub ass in the Miami/LA deal.
And he's a place holder. They still essentially got 3 lotto picks out of it.
Funny shit is how LA was scrapping with Riley for weeks over including Wade's scrub ass in the Miami/LA deal.
I get it but they got Favors PLUS 2 lottery picks, not Harris plus two lottery picks.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Damn, it's good they built their team around seasoned veterans Kevin Love and Ricky Rubio who were not drafted in the lottery. Can't imagine what would have happened if they had to pick guys at 5th in the 2008 and 2009 drafts.
so basically evaluating the trade this early when it will revolve around how the lottery picks turn out is retarded?
couldn't agree more... so why did you evaluate it?
omg lol
It's not retarted, GMs do it all the time. Until a certain point, players who have potential hold a given value, and what would we say about Kanter's and Favors? It's pretty high, RIGHT NOW.
A) No I didn't say that. I said it would be like this current Lakers team trading Gasol for a Kobe / Bynum backup. I never said "The Lakers in their history have never traded a superstar for pieces before"...besides, if you want to play that game. Lakers traded for Wilt, traded for Kareem, traded for Kobe, traded for Pau. We've done a lot more superstar good deals than bad ones but that's neither here nor there and doesn't change how bad the D Will trade was.
B) Decent trade bait hasn't given you anything yet. 2 Players with potential who play positions YOU DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH. How are you conveniently ignoring this? There are plenty of "players with potential" that could have filled some of your needs.
C) Last year they got Chandler, Harrington, Felton, Gallo, Mosgov...all who played good to AMAZING for them. This year Chandler and Felton haven't been in the lineup but Harrington has been great for them, Mosgov has been their backup C, and Gallo was having a career year before the injury. On the flipside, Melo is complete ass while Deron, even while un-engaged, is still destroying foos. So yea, there's no comparison between the two trades either from last year, or this year.
Edit: Everyone's entire argument for why this trade is good is "Derrick Favors and Kanter might be great yo!" Despite the fact that they have no reasonable way of starting on this squad until 2014 and, haven't actually shown themselves to be anything close to great. The only way this trade makes any sense is the overrating of Favors / Kanter and their potential instead of looking at the current situation, in which case, it was a bad trade!
I hear you. He already had some nice moments, I liked how he played in their win against the Lakers in early february, Bynum had a hard time in sequences.
You just don't like reality, do you? They signed Al Harrington, they didn't trade for him. Not one of those players played "amazing".
You don't make a trade for immediate results. Not when you get a #2 pick, a #3 pick and another lottery pick that might be very high in 2013! And we have yet to see you acknowledge the existence of that last pick. That package beasts over Gallo & scraps.
LegendofJoe
Member
I didn't know that until it was pointed out, in that case it is unquestionably a fantastic deal. Also, I'd like to point out that nothing prevents the Jazz from shopping Millsap and/or Jefferson since their replacements (Favors and Kanter) are already on the roster.
You really don't know the difference between trade demands and 1.5 years of contract left do you?
And you really don't know the difference between a guy with a no trade clause who forces his GM to entertain a particular offer versus trading a guy in the dark for basically the first package thrown your way because you live in Utar and are pissed off that your HOF coach quit.
By all means, compare the two instances evenly. This wouldn't be an argument if D-Will had said "Trade me to NJ"...that's not what happened, don't compare it to a situation where a player does that
That package could beast...but it doesn't. Do you actually watch basketball, or do you just have your own values like "all #2 picks are worth so much yo!"
2 of the lottery picks back up 2 of their 3 best players. the other lottery pick hasn't been drafted yet, but there's a chance it could be a bust. Gallo isn't a bust. Gallo may very well end up better than all 3 lottery picks combined...that's the reality. Stop living in potential / youthiness world until they actually accomplish something
I'm just looking at the stats for the west, and, am i seeing this right? That the lakers have lost the most games to below .5 teams?(of the playoff teams) lol. Can someone clarify.
http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/type/expanded
http://espn.go.com/nba/standings/_/type/expanded
Deron Williams for Harris and 3 lotto picks is bad. Word. Thanks for reinforcing everyone's opinion of you, Vag.
You're making my point again. The 'Current' Lakers were forced to look at trades twice with Shaq and Kobe and they did so by looking at potential. Potential in Deng, potential in Butler, potential in Odom, etc.
But since you've obviously found Odom's secret stash, I think you should enjoy it and stop posting.
You're making my point again. The 'Current' Lakers were forced to look at trades twice with Shaq and Kobe and they did so by looking at potential. Potential in Deng, potential in Butler, potential in Odom, etc.
But since you've obviously found Odom's secret stash, I think you should enjoy it and stop posting.
That trade isn't even worth discussion. Nobody will know how those picks turn out for a few years.. and nobody knows what else the Jazz could have got instead.
But we have Millsap and Jefferson until 2013.. clearly we will be wasting the 20 and 21 year old primes of the players we got.
But we have Millsap and Jefferson until 2013.. clearly we will be wasting the 20 and 21 year old primes of the players we got.
They got a damned good return. Which in return kinda screwed up NY's position a bit...
But I agree, Favors, Kanter, and whoever the fuck should just retire at 23.
Any big man who can't dominate by age 21 is worthless.
Kobe forced the Lakers to look at the Bulls. He has a no trade clause and demanded a trade. Team can't do anything once that happens. Holy hell you're stupid, honestly. And you're just re-inforcing what I've always said, when you get into an argument with me, you'll say anything and everything, no matter how out of context and irrational just to get points.
If you were a GM for the bobcats, would you trade to get two lottery picks who play the same position as your two best players? Because if you would, go join Utah's staff, I'm sure they'll love to have you.
People ridiculed Kahn for taking 3 PG's in the same draft, and then signing two more. But it's ok that O'Conner signed / traded for / drafted / 4 Bigs within 2 years while giving away a true superstar who had no trade demands made?
Stay classy...and ignore details and thinking. Durr durr 3 lottery picks good!!!
LOOOOOOOOOOL
Jefferson might just walk out next season, or they can trade him to get help at the guard positions... A 15m $ expirer as talented as him might just get you the PG you need considering how many PGs there are right now. And then what. Millsap 32 minutes, Favors 32 minutes, that leaves... 32 minutes for Kanter. He'll get a few less but that's beside the point: the point is they have leverage, they have options RIGHT NOW.
Whether its the start demanding the trade (and still denying it through his no trade clause) have no real relevance in this one. The Lakers entertained the idea because they felt it benefited them, no? Why? Figure it out.
And no team short of serious title contention should ever consider position over talent. Otherwise you end up like Houston - trading Rudy Gay for Shane Battier. Kahn still wasted more assets than anyone else in the league by a wide margin so bringing him up can only further solidify your image is a rambling idiot to everyone here.
But we all need something to laugh at besides the Knicks, so keep posting.
I didn't think we had 'best players' lolz
Meh it's still DJ i think. Biyombo next year?
Don't trade DJ for 3 lottery picks though.. that would retarded.
LegendofJoe
Member
Seriously, DJ isn't going to resign. I'd be absolutely trilled if the Cats could get a lottery pick for him.
Red Blaster
Member
Just heard that apparently Dwight's pretty pissed that the Monta deal fell through, thinks the organization isn't doing enough to get him help. Pretty amazing how Dwight thinks getting another team's leading scorer is easy.
Black Mamba
Member
I'm going to go ahead and apologize for Vag. We're about to exile him onto the same rock Heavy lives under.
wtf
wtf
So Reading this I imagine Dy_Nasty and dIEHARD were telling everyone to calm down in 2008 about the Pau Gasol trade right?
"Wait, we can't judge this deal yet, Marc Gasol is still really young and there's lots of flexibility and cap space...let's hold judgement and wait a few years as this team isn't a contender so they don't need to worry about immediate growth"
right?....bullshit. dIEHARD is just being an irrational Homer and Dy, you're just being Dy. Like I said, anytime I post anything you just interject yourself into the argument and start tossing personal insults / illogical arguments my way
"Wait, we can't judge this deal yet, Marc Gasol is still really young and there's lots of flexibility and cap space...let's hold judgement and wait a few years as this team isn't a contender so they don't need to worry about immediate growth"
right?....bullshit. dIEHARD is just being an irrational Homer and Dy, you're just being Dy. Like I said, anytime I post anything you just interject yourself into the argument and start tossing personal insults / illogical arguments my way
How about a uh, jamal crawford? Maybe a Failton thrown in?
Gully State
Member
All that talk and no trade...at least they're not making a trade for the sake of making a trade..
ryutaro's mama
Member
Vahagn and iamshadowlark should get a reality show based around teaching other people logical debating techniques.
I'd watch it.
I'd watch it.
Knicks fans are so happy that you keep them from being the consistent laughing stock of NBA-age.
So selfless
So humble
Black Mamba
Member
lol
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