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Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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KHarvey16 said:
I certainly wasn't being sarcastic and I simply didn't see the need to continue at this point. I'm not gonna come in and just throw out a "told you so" whenever new information comes out strengthening the case in either direction. The implications of every new tidbit seem clear if they turn out to be true, no? I'm sorry you don't like it, but you'll have to get over it. I'd also point out the continual accusations of trolling are getting tired.
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I'm astounded, you're like the Manos of police threads.
 
KHarvey16 said:
I certainly wasn't being sarcastic and I simply didn't see the need to continue at this point. I'm not gonna come in and just throw out a "told you so" whenever new information comes out strengthening the case in either direction. The implications of every new tidbit seem clear if they turn out to be true, no? I'm sorry you don't like it, but you'll have to get over it. I'd also point out the continual accusations of trolling are getting tired.
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If you don't see the need to continue, why do you continue?
 
Soneet said:
If you don't see the need to continue, why do you continue?
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"herp derp paging kharvey!"

"guess you were wrong saying he's innocent huh kharvey!"

I don't care if people disagree with me, but I do care if they erect a straw man and decide that was my position.
 
he can't let go. I bet he can't get us to page 40 though.

I'm glad I'm not a logic fetishist. I'll stick to latex and pantyhose.
 
demigod said:
On Thursday, Zimmerman’s father hand-delivered a letter to the Orlando Sentinel, disputing widely repeated version of events, saying his Spanish-speaking son is not a racist.

“The media reports of the events are imaginary at best. At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin,” Robert Zimmerman wrote. “When the true details of the event become public, and I hope that will be soon, everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media.”
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We know that Zimmerman was in his car when he called the cops. He had to be out of his car to interact with Trayvon. No where in any report is it mentioned that Trayzon approached Zimmerman's car and tried to remove Zimmerman from his car. Which is what the father seems to be suggesting here.
 
Akainu said:
God damn.
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The lawyers for Hattori's parents argued that the Peairses had behaved unreasonably: Bonnie Peairs had overreacted to the presence of the two teens outside her house; the Peairses had behaved unreasonably by not communicating with each other to convey what exactly the threat was; they had not taken the best path to safety—remaining inside the house and calling police; they had erred in taking offensive action rather than defensive action; and Rodney Peairs had used his firearm too quickly, without assessing the situation, using a warning shot, or shooting to wound. Furthermore, the much larger Peairs could likely very easily have subdued the short, slightly built teen.
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Clearly the lawyer was a stupid Euro-hippie, amirite?

I wonder what the totally true and 100% real details of the evenr will show. A lone Maverick protecting his community from a loitering
______
youth?
 
KHarvey16 said:
And I honestly hope one day you'll be able to come to a conclusion and maintain a position without resorting to emotional reactions and visceral outbursts. The fact you simply don't like my position is enough for you to break out the insults. You can't offer a reasoned critique because you didn't use reason to come up with your criticisms.
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say what? ಠ_ಠ

KHarvey16 said:
White knighting? You fucking morons. It's like talking to children.
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ಠ_ಠ

your position is that he should not be arrested am i right? you don't think there is enough probable cause? yeah, thats fucked up, and you're wrong.
 
bigboss370 said:
your position is that he should not be arrested am i right? you don't think there is enough probable cause? yeah, thats fucked up, and you're wrong.
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His position was that you all are condemning are asking for this guy to be arrested without a full set of facts. You guys can talk all you want...the fact of the matter is that nobody knows how everything really went down except for Zimmerman. Nobody on GAF knows how it really happened but they call for persecution regardless.

None of you seem to understand that asking for justice based on a full set of facts is not the same as saying somebody is innocent.
 
Dahellisdat said:
His position was that you all are condemning are asking for this guy to be arrested without a full set of facts. You guys can talk all you want...the fact of the matter is that nobody knows how everything really went down except for Zimmerman. Nobody on GAF knows how it really happened but they call for persecution regardless.

None of you seem to understand that asking for justice based on a full set of facts is not the same as saying somebody is innocent.
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we're not asking him to be convicted and sentenced without a trial. but he should be arrested. there is enough probable cause to warrant an arrest. then he should face a jury of his peers.
 
Dahellisdat said:
His position was that you all are condemning are asking for this guy to be arrested without a full set of facts. You guys can talk all you want...the fact of the matter is that nobody knows how everything really went down except for Zimmerman. Nobody on GAF knows how it really happened but they call for persecution regardless.

None of you seem to understand that asking for justice based on a full set of facts is not the same as saying somebody is innocent.
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Wonder why they sent Manson to prison after trial when they could have simply arrested him. Justice was already served. Why go through such pomp and circumstance just to waste tax payer's dollars? Typical government overspending.

But what pisses me off the most is when innocent upstanding citizens get arrested and detained. Even if they're let go or found not guilty during a trial, the damage was done. What kind of cruel system just doles out life altering justice like it's skittles...
 
bigboss370 said:
we're not asking him to be convicted and sentenced without a trial. but he should be arrested. there is enough probable cause to warrant an arrest. then he should face a jury of his peers.
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..or an investigation can be done and then if enough evidence is there to pursue charges then he can be arrested.
 
Binabik15 said:
Clearly the lawyer was a stupid Euro-hippie, amirite?

I wonder what the totally true and 100% real details of the evenr will show. A lone Maverick protecting his community from a loitering
______
youth?
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to be fair: nobody citizen with a concealed carry license is trained or encouraged to

"fire a warning shot"

"shoot to wound"

fuck no.

We're taught very clearly that IF you feel compelled to pull out a firearm, it's because you (or someone else) are in fear of grievous bodily harm or death by an assailant or assailants. And in those times, you should pull out your firearm, shoot to kill (not wound), and prepare to lawyer up. Shooting--or even pulling out or brandishing--a firearm under any other circumstances is patently illegal and fall under various penalties here in Florida.

I have the legal handbook sitting right next to me, as I just renewed my own CCW licence. So yes, the lawyer is bullshitting. Shooting "to wound" is asking to potentially put your life in even more jeopardy. You draw and shoot to hit the biggest target (the chest), and if you can, you put 2 or 3 shots on your target. Aiming for limbs or the head is never advised because of the likelihood of missing (they are always moving the most of any area on the body), and because they may keep coming.


NervousXtian said:
..or an investigation can be done and then if enough evidence is there to pursue charges then he can be arrested.
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that's what SHOULD have happened, but for most intents and purposes proper police detective work and investigating never happened. We even have accounts of police on the scene correcting WITNESSES to make their stories fit the story of the shooter.
 
NervousXtian said:
..or an investigation can be done and then if enough evidence is there to pursue charges then he can be arrested.
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You mean like the 911 tapes or multiple witnesses who say police changed their statements to match Zimmermans. Or the fact that Zimmerman is 100 lbs heavier than the teen and had a gun? Or that Zimmerman confronted the teen when cops told him not to? Or the fact that the teen only had skittles on him? Or Zimmerman having a troubled past with cops no less. Or the fact that other neighbors complained to the cops about Zimmermans behavior before but nothing was done?

I didn't even mention all the bs around this story but you're right, lets not jump the gun and arrest him...
 
Foxy Fox 39 said:
You mean like the 911 tapes or multiple witnesses who say police changed their statements to match Zimmermans. Or the fact that Zimmerman is 100 lbs heavier than the teen and had a gun? Or that Zimmerman confronted the teen when cops told him not to? Or the fact that the teen only had skittles on him? Or Zimmerman having a troubled past with cops no less. Or the fact that other neighbors complained to the cops about Zimmermans behavior before but nothing was done?

I didn't even mention all the bs around this story but you're right, lets not jump the gun and arrest him...
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Or that Zimmerman had grass stains on his back, was bleeding, and had injuries consistent with an explanation of self defense and a witness describing him being mounted by the kid and punched in the head?

There are pieces of information that make this case a little more ambiguous than people are inferring and likely enough so to warrant them holding off on an arrest or a trial until they can make the most informed decision that won't come back to bite them in the ass.
 
Dahellisdat said:
Or that Zimmerman had grass stains on his back, was bleeding, and had injuries consistent with an explanation of self defense and a witness describing him being mounted by the kid and punched in the head?

There are pieces of information that make this case a little more ambiguous than people are inferring and likely enough so to warrant them holding off on an arrest or a trial until they can make the most informed decision that won't come back to bite them in the ass.
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Wow.
 
Dahellisdat said:
Or that Zimmerman had grass stains on his back, was bleeding, and had injuries consistent with an explanation of self defense and a witness describing him being mounted by the kid and punched in the head?

There are pieces of information that make this case a little more ambiguous than people are inferring and likely enough so to warrant them holding off on an arrest or a trial until they can make the most informed decision that won't come back to bite them in the ass.
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Funny that you say this about the local police when they are trying to cover up the case.

"warrant" nothing, they are bullshitting. The big hand from above will have to force them to make an arrest.
 
Dahellisdat said:
Wow, what? You guys are confusing a lack of calling for someone to burn at the stake with defending their innocence.
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Common sense should come in to play at some point. The overwhelming evidence that has come out suggests that Zimmerman acted irresponsibly, resulting in a kids death. How anyone can argue otherwise or continues to say shit like "Lets wait for more facts to come out" boggles my mind. What more do you need? A video of the incident? This is just sad to me.
 
Rocket Scientist said:
Does that mean that he was in fact charged and convicted? At least that's what I'm understanding from what I just googled about it, but not sure. Since, if he wasn't then the charges would just be ''dropped'' I guess?
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Yes he had a record (I don't think you have to be convicted though) but it was erased. Usually it happens with underage crimes.
 
Dahellisdat said:
Or that Zimmerman had grass stains on his back, was bleeding, and had injuries consistent with an explanation of self defense and a witness describing him being mounted by the kid and punched in the head?

There are pieces of information that make this case a little more ambiguous than people are inferring and likely enough so to warrant them holding off on an arrest or a trial until they can make the most informed decision that won't come back to bite them in the ass.
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That may well be true, but that isn't really how the concept of probable cause is supposed to work. It only requires a reasonable belief that a person committed a crime. It doesn't require that there be no conflicting information. That is what trials are for. What I find most loathsome about the case is not so much the high standard that is being applied, but that it is being atypically applied. Were the races reversed, there would have been an arrest that night.

Rocket Scientist said:
Does that mean that he was in fact charged and convicted? At least that's what I'm understanding from what I just googled about it, but not sure. Since, if he wasn't then the charges would just be ''dropped'' I guess?
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Dropped and expunged (according to reports). Which in most states means he can legally deny the arrest and charge because as a legal matter it never happened.
 
edornob said:
This saddens me that this thread had lasted this long.

I don't think anyone is really asking for Zimmerman to be put to death but he definitely should be put on trial. Why is that hard to believe?
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That is not hard to believe and is actually in concert with the posts that KHarvey and myself have made. All facets of the encounter need to be considered. Many of the posters that are in contention with KHarvey simply do not understand that what he is advocating is correct use of due process of justice, but they confuse it with somebody that is arguing that this guy should remain free.
 
Dahellisdat said:
That is not hard to believe and is actually in concert with the posts that KHarvey and myself have made. All facets of the encounter need to be considered. Many of the posters that are in contention with KHarvey simply do not understand that what he is advocating is correct use of due process of justice, but they confuse it with somebody that is arguing that this guy should remain free.
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Yeah, but that is for the jury to decide. At this point, even if a set of crazy circumstances get unveiled, there is still enough cause for arrest and trial. He is welcome to try to claim self defense during trial.
 
Dahellisdat said:
That is not hard to believe and is actually in concert with the posts that KHarvey and myself have made. All facets of the encounter need to be considered. Many of the posters that are in contention with KHarvey simply do not understand that what he is advocating is correct use of due process of justice, but they confuse it with somebody that is arguing that this guy should remain free.
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The fact that he isn't even arrested is the issue. Due process can take place as the police don't take his word as unrelenting truth. I don't know why either of you continue to assume and believe that no one has ever been arrested on suspicion of a crime before.
 
Pic of the kid

trayvon-martin.jpg
 
Dahellisdat said:
That is not hard to believe and is actually in concert with the posts that KHarvey and myself have made. All facets of the encounter need to be considered. Many of the posters that are in contention with KHarvey simply do not understand that what he is advocating is correct use of due process of justice, but they confuse it with somebody that is arguing that this guy should remain free.
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Why shouldn't he be arrested? You realize the difference between an arrest due to probable cause and a conviction due to evidence beyond reasonable doubt, right?
 
The 911 tapes have been released to the family and their lawyers.

According attorneys for Martin's family, two shots can be heard on the audio. One, they said they assumed, was a warning shot, followed by pleas for help they said were from Martin. Then there was a second shot.

"You hear a shot, a clear shot, that we can only assume is a warning shot," said Natalie Jackson, a family attorney. "Then a 17-year-old boy is begging for his life. Everything tells me that that was Trayvon Martin."

Tracy Martin, the teenager's father, broke down crying as he listened to the audio on Friday, the family lawyers said.

"My son was crying for help, and he still shot him," Tracy Martin said, according to Benjamin Crump, another family attorney.
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Holy frack if that's true. As if this case wasn't already bad enough.
 
http://abcnews.go.com/US/treyvon-martin-neighborhood-watch-shooting-911-tapes-send/story?id=15937881#.T2P_BXkxjGh

On his way back into the gated suburban Orlando community after stepping out, Martin, wearing a hood, was spotted by Zimmerman.

Zimmerman described Martin as suspicious because he was wearing a hooded sweatshirt and walking slowly in the rain, police later told residents at a town hall.

A dispatcher told him to wait for a police cruiser, and not leave his vehicle.

But about a minute later, Zimmerman left his car wearing a red sweatshirt and pursued Martin on foot between two rows of townhouses, about 70 yards from where the teen was going.

Zimmerman's pursuit of Martin did not of itself constitute a crime, Lee said.

Witnesses told ABC News a fistfight broke out and, at one point, Zimmerman, who outweighed Martin by more than 100 pounds, was on the ground and that Martin was on
top.

Austin Brown, 13, was walking his dog during the time of the altercation and saw both men on the ground but separated.

Brown, along with several other residents, heard someone cry for help, just before hearing a gunshot. Police arrived 60 seconds later and the teen was quickly pronounced dead.

According to the police report, Zimmerman, who was armed with a handgun, was found bleeding from the nose and the back of the head, standing over Martin, who was unresponsive after being shot.

Trayvon Martin had no arrest record or disciplinary action for violence as a student in North Miami's Krop High School.
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