Mass Effect 3 SPOILER THREAD: LOTS OF SPECULATION FROM EVERYONE

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I bought a lot of their games, and I know for a fact I will never buy another one again.

I didn't even buy the day one DLC despite caring deeply about the lore. I refused. The only reason I bought the third game after all of the horror brought on by DA2 and TOR and the treatment of their core fans was to see how it all finally unfolded.

Joke's on me.

I won't exclude the possibility. But I will buy them used if at all. I already told my brother to buy ME3 used if he wants to play it. But they'll still get me with that online pass, right? Well, I haven't played the multi (which I loved) since I saw the ending. So not so sure about that.
 
First of all kudos to Bioware dropping that on a Friday night. Way to let it get buried.

Secondly, looks like they're playing off the DA2 playbook.

Talk about how great their game is and how the critics love it, thus subtly insinuating that those who have problems with it are wrong and a minority, and then pay lip service to their concerns.

Great.

The PAX Panel is definitely going to be a bloodbath. I pity the poor community managers.
So, free digital copy of DAII to purchasers of ME3? Hahaha.
 
I don't get why Hudson and Bioware can't just admit they made a mistake? I realize they put an extreme amount of effort into making these games, but they seem incapable of taking criticism. Mass Effect 3 is a great game, but it is far from their best game, and everyone knows it. Why pretend otherwise? It just doesn't help them at all.
 
I will admit that Bioware is definitely now a wait and see company for me. Dragon Age is a mess, and now that the ME trilogy is over who the hell knows what that series will become.

I will say that I'm not really interested in playing anything set prior to the end of ME3. I want the future, not the past.

I don't get why Hudson and Bioware can't just admit they made a mistake? I realize they put an extreme amount of effort into making these games, but they seem incapable of taking criticism. Mass Effect 3 is a great game, but it is far from their best game, and everyone knows it. Why pretend otherwise? It just doesn't help them at all.

Because I'm willing to bet that they honestly believe that they haven't made a mistake. That this is the fans' fault for improper expectations.

Keep in mind, this is a company who blamed the fans' bad reaction to DA2 on their irrational desire to get more Dragon Age: Origins, when it was clear that they weren't interested in delivering more of that. Nevermind that it was a direct sequel and has a number 2 in its name, the fans were foolish for expecting something similar.
 
To be fair, being a child, he probably does actually want to know what your favourite colour is.

And good luck if you like to mix your colors all Coke freestyle like... Red and Green would be pretty interesting... make everyone part synthetic and then kill all synthetics, but Shepard would live in the end!
 
I thought Joker might have gotten sucked into a wormhole...and maybe gone back in time...but in the synthesis ending, he's still synthetic. So unless they went back in time while being affected by the synthesis ray, it can't be that.

I'd totally be into Land of the Lost Effect. But only if it's still post-ME3 in the timeline. Like the tech and world can be super old, but I don't want characters playing dumb and not knowing what actually happened.
 
Well if I use your logic, than I could just say if Bioware does DLC indoctrination, it doesn't matter because it all depends on what we think works better. We've both pointed out that we cannot actually debate each other because we are proponents of ideas that necessitate the foundation for the others to be false, (author/context matter, only the work itself matters). I don't think there's much more for us to go on because we're coming at it from such divergent viewpoints that undercut the evidence each offers.

I know, I'm not debating you. I'm asking how you view it out of curiosity. You place so much emphasis on original intention of the author that you disregard other interpretations even if they make far more sense. So I'm asking, when part 1 of something is made with 1 intention and part 2 is made with another, yet you still have to consider the story as a whole, what do you make of it if ONLY the authors intentions that went into making that matter?
 
Welp, the BSN is at least alluding to ceding to the possibility of delivering end DLC based on fan demand here

Jessica Merizan wrote...

I think I need to clarify myself. For the past few weeks, I've been collecting feedback. I have excel sheets, word documents, quotes, graphs, you name it.

In order for a collaboration between the devs and the fans to work, I need you guys to CONTINUE being constructive, and organizing your thoughts. I know where to look, but I need you to help me by contributing to the dialogue.

Saying "this blows" helps no one. Saying, "I enjoyed X but I found Z _____ because of A,B,C" is what I'm looking for. Channel your frustration into something positive (such as the RetakeME3 movement - constructive, organized thoughts).

Chris and I are both collecting your feedback. We're listening. Make yourself heard.

Prepare for speculation.
 
DwQTM.jpg

This is as good as it gets. The merger of multiple memes into a new glorious meme.
 
I don't get why Hudson and Bioware can't just admit they made a mistake? I realize they put an extreme amount of effort into making these games, but they seem incapable of taking criticism. Mass Effect 3 is a great game, but it is far from their best game, and everyone knows it. Why pretend otherwise? It just doesn't help them at all.

They pulled the same exact shit in DA2.


It's the same timeline, it's awful. It only gets worse from here.
 
I don't get why Hudson and Bioware can't just admit they made a mistake? I realize they put an extreme amount of effort into making these games, but they seem incapable of taking criticism. Mass Effect 3 is a great game, but it is far from their best game, and everyone knows it. Why pretend otherwise? It just doesn't help them at all.
Trying to see how much shot we cab take.. all I can give them is this warning

Even a toilet has a shit limit
 
I don't get why Hudson and Bioware can't just admit they made a mistake? I realize they put an extreme amount of effort into making these games, but they seem incapable of taking criticism. Mass Effect 3 is a great game, but it is far from their best game, and everyone knows it. Why pretend otherwise? It just doesn't help them at all.

They admitted the mistake with Deception because of the specific lore errors, which even they could recognise. Like, you can't argue against that. Fans were going "jesus christ this is stupid look at all this dumb shit that doesn't make sense" and BioWare were kinda forced to back up and go "Oh, wow, this is completely wrong. Yeah, um, sorry". But the public apology only apologised for the inaccuracies, not the quality of the story itself.

As said, BioWare probably don't see this as a mistake. No plan to exploit consumers through DLC. No fuck-up. No 'problem' that needs fixing. They have nothing to apologise for because in their eyes they wrote a sweet awesome ending that was really cool and finished the trilogy in a totally awesome way.
 
So, free digital copy of DAII to purchasers of ME3? Hahaha.

I actually got a free copy of Dragon Age: Origins from Amazon, due to some alleged botch in the digital preorder download phase. I had no problems, but I got a free coupon to download one of four EA games (ME1, DA:O, forget the other two).

Given how small the problem was, and the blanket response (here everyone, take it!), it's not totally far-fetched (or something similar, i.e. an earlier game).
 
I don't see this as a mistake you "rectify." Like when you screw up your math homework, you fix it because you know you did the wrong thing. This is more like hitting an old lady with a bus or something. You can't fix it. I don't understand why the community keeps calling for them to patch or retcon it. It's what it is. We're stuck with it. Mass Effect 3 is our old lady getting hit by a bus.

More seriously, it's not like it's an objective mistake. It's horrible, lazy, insulting, and not true to the series, but a "mistake"? I dunno.
 
I will say that I'm not really interested in playing anything set prior to the end of ME3. I want the future, not the past.

I have to admit, I would love to see a ME game tackle the First Contact War or one set in the midst of the Prothean Empire. Hell, even the Garrus C-Sec idea sounds awesome. More than anything else, I feel like Bioware created one of the most intriguing and memorable game universes in ages and there are countless great stories to be told throughout its history. The only question is whether the developer is actually up to the task.
 
Welp, the BSN is at least alluding to ceding to the possibility of delivering end DLC based on fan demand here



Prepare for speculation.

That says nothing about new ending DLC. That says that they'll keep fans' comments in mind on future DLC. That could easily be something as stupid as a Marauder Shields joke in the Retaking Omega DLC.
 
So, free digital copy of DAII to purchasers of ME3? Hahaha.
No one wants DA2, they'll give away ME2 again.

Welp, the BSN is at least alluding to ceding to the possibility of delivering end DLC based on fan demand here

Prepare for speculation.
Why does it say weeks? It's only been a week since the game came out.

Oh, I see. They're only gathering positive feedback.


"I enjoyed X but I found Z _____ because of A,B,C"
She's so on the ball she totally missed it.
 
I was making fun of them continually saying that they're gathering feedback when there's a 90% chance nothing will happen. It's a PR trick to get everyone to calm down.

Ok. So now we are also not believing him saying that we haven't seen the last of Shepard then as well though?

Sorry I feel dense(I have been up for over 42 hours due to work) but I never actually knew what to expect from them as an answer...but we got one. But it sounds like the answer, no matter what answer probably wouldn't appease perhaps?

I guess time will tell sadly.
 
InFamous 2 did almost the same thing with its ending last year. Spoilers for that series, just in case:

At the beginning of that game you get given this device which you're told will essentially destroy the unkillable bad guy (I believe you're actually told it'll make you powerful enough to defeat him, but that doesn't actually happen so never mind). You spend the whole game hunting down these things to power up the device, and then about an hour before the end of the game it turns out that the device actually either kills all humans or kills all superheroes.

The entire focus of the game is undone by a weird twist right at the end, and then you have to go and make a decision that is completely different to what the entire game's prepared you for. I think it might actually be the same as ME3, where all the decisions you made throughout the game become meaningless because the last two choices are the same regardless. I wonder what entices video game writers to do things like that.
 
To Fail Effect, aka Karak:

We knew we would see more Shepard as DLC. Pre-endgame DLC. Retake Omega, maybe something else I'm forgetting. That is why the game dumps you back before the Illusive Brah's base, so you can pay 10 or more dollars for content, which they practically beg you to do.

Nowhere does he say we will see post-game Shepard. Nowhere does he say they are considering post-game Shepard. Nowhere does he say anything other than some people weren't satisfied, but the New York Times was.
 
Ok. So now we are also not believing him saying that we haven't seen the last of Shepard then as well though?

Sorry I feel dense(I have been up for over 42 hours due to work) but I never actually knew what to expect from them as an answer...but we got one. But it sounds like the answer, no matter what answer probably wouldn't appease perhaps?

I guess time will tell sadly.

Well, it is very non-committal, which is somewhat understandable.

Seeing more of Shepard could mean middle-of-the game DLC, so people don't take it as a definite that we're going to get some alternate ending DLC.
 
InFamous 2 did almost the same thing with its ending last year. Spoilers for that series, just in case:

At the beginning of that game you get given this device which you're told will essentially destroy the unkillable bad guy (I believe you're actually told it'll make you powerful enough to defeat him, but that doesn't actually happen so never mind). You spend the whole game hunting down these things to power up the device, and then about an hour before the end of the game it turns out that the device actually either kills all humans or kills all superheroes.

The entire focus of the game is undone by a weird twist right at the end, and then you have to go and make a decision that is completely different to what the entire game's prepared you for. I think it might actually be the same as ME3, where all the decisions you made throughout the game become meaningless because the last two choices are the same regardless. I wonder what entices video game writers to do things like that.
They think you'd be blown away by their twist.
 
To Fail Effect, aka Karak:

We knew we would see more Shepard as DLC. Pre-endgame DLC. Retake Omega, maybe something else I'm forgetting. That is why the game dumps you back before the Illusive Brah's base, so you can pay 10 or more dollars for content, which they practically beg you to do.

Nowhere does he say we will see post-game Shepard. Nowhere does he say they are considering post-game Shepard. Nowhere does he say anything other than some people weren't satisfied, but the New York Times was.

Fuck I am so out of it.

Ok thanks that makes sence. God damn I am fried thanks for explaining it to the sleep deprived tard!

EDIT: I guess I am going to have to still keep hope in my heart though that canon ending Shep will somehow continue on. Fuck they put him in there, so there is a chance no matter how small.

I want my god damned shepard to live...you know, HAPPY ENDING after billions died and the systems are in utter chaos.
 
I think I just realized the biggest plot twist of all: The Mass Effect series is a cry for help.

jbie4keOMTSyhT.jpg


Bioware was trying to warn us about the REAPERS.

I'm choosing the "Destroy the major publishers" ending.
 
That says nothing about new ending DLC. That says that they'll keep fans' comments in mind on future DLC. That could easily be something as stupid as a Marauder Shields joke in the Retaking Omega DLC.

It's also one topic to conveniently hold all criticisms! So they can ignore!

Buy our DLC!
 
SO WHAT HAPPENS TO THE ME1 CREW?

Your bosom buds from the beginning. They stuck it out for years, never wavering. And you repaid their loyalty by never getting them killed (well except that one loser), never failing to help them out. So let's see how they ended up with this handy guide!

Garrus Vakarian:
Hopes: This turian C-Sec officer was tired of the small time and dreamed of becoming an elite Spectre agent. When Commander Shepard recruited him, Garrus knew he could make his dreams come true.
Result: Garrus never became a Spectre, even though the Virmire Survivor who probably distrusted Spectres did. He was stranded on an unknown alien planet that lacked the dextro foods that turians like Garrus requires. He was probably tempted many times by hunger delirium to feast on the corpse of his good friend Tali'Zorah vas Normandy, but instead resisted before slowly fading away while all his friends watched.

Tali'Zorah nar Rayya vas Normandy
Hopes: Like many quarians, Tali was devoted to her people. She dreamed of reclaiming their homeworld, Rannoch, and building a home there so that her species could live in peace.
Result: Tali was stranded on an unknown alien planet, cut off from the society that quarian life revolves around, doomed to know that she would never again see her people, and that the quarians would be centuries away from ever returning to the homeworld they spent so many years longing to return to. Given Tali's previous possible behavior, she most likely committed suicide rather than succumb to starvation.

Urdnot Wrex:
Hopes: The leader of the krogan Clan Urdnot, Wrex hoped to reverse the fatalistic attitudes of his people and the effects of the genophage, restoring their proud warrior culture.
Result: Wrex was stranded on Earth. He would probably never see the children he fathered with Eve, for the political upheaval on Tuchanka caused by his absence and the collapse of galactic society would most likely result in chaos. Left on Earth with once again fatalistic krogan, Wrex has been dealt the ultimate emasculation of his manhood by fate. Most likely disillusioned, Wrex will either spend centuries fighting back to find the desecrated graves of his family on Tuchanka, or be unceremoniously gunned down by human soldiers after going wild in a fit of blood rage.

Dr. Liara T'Soni
Hopes: To study the galaxy's past and leave hope for the galaxy's future.
Result: Liara was stranded on an unknown alien planet. Apart from the AI, EDI, Liara would outlive all of her friends, watching many generations of human survivors be born and die, possibly never knowing exactly what happened to Shepard or the galaxy, forced to live a long, lonely, and loveless life.

The Virmire Survivor (Major Kaiden Alenko/Lieutenant Commander Ashley Williams)
Hopes: Eh
Result: Eh


So keep up the galactic adventurin' Sheparinos, and we'll catch you on the flip side!
 
I think I just realized the biggest plot twist of all: The Mass Effect series is a cry for help.

jbie4keOMTSyhT.jpg


Bioware was trying to warn us about the REAPERS.

I'm choosing the "Destroy the major publishers" ending.

From SA forums again I'm guessing? They really need to stop deflecting this on EA.
 
I know, I'm not debating you. I'm asking how you view it out of curiosity. You place so much emphasis on original intention of the author that you disregard other interpretations even if they make far more sense. So I'm asking, when part 1 of something is made with 1 intention and part 2 is made with another, yet you still have to consider the story as a whole, what do you make of it if ONLY the authors intentions that went into making that matter?

But the problem is we view evidence for what makes sense with two different lens. If I take into account the author's intention and the context of its creation as evidence for whether an interpretation makes sense, you'd say that's not how you're supposed to do it and it doesn't count, I would say it does. I'm not saying only the author's intent matters, but that it doesn't not matter.

To your point though, you don't have to view the story as a whole any more than the 6 Star Wars movies are one story and not six individual movies. Is the real Star Wars story all 6 chronologically or two trilogies, 4-6 and then 1-3. Is the real video game the one with DLC or the one without? I don't know if I, or anyone, can give definitive answers to those kind of questions, but we can debate and talk about it. We can evaluate the product we are given, and reevaluate as the product changes.

So let's say Bioware adds post-game DLC that makes the ending different. It doesn't change what the original product was, and it doesn't change their state of mind and past intentions when creating it. They may have changed their mind as a result of fan reaction or they saw a financial opportunity to exploit, but that doesn't retroactively alter their past, it creates a new future thing we can evaluate.

So the previous game may have one ending, and this new dlc creates another. It would be similar but not analogous to my Blade Runner example. In that case Ridley Scott had a vision for the film, but it was not what the theatrical release was. He later gave out his Director's Cut which represented the film he wanted to release. In this case, we're seeing what the film was originally intended to be, but it still doesn't erase the original.

This is not the same in Bioware's case, they had their original intent and the ending was as given. If they do new ending DLC to placate fans or exploit a financial possibility, we're seeing a new thing, but the change is due in response to something and doesn't represent the original/intended ending (unless they admit they had the DLC planned from the start, but that would entail taking into account the author's intent).
 
From SA forums again I'm guessing? They really need to stop deflecting this on EA.

At this point I liken EA to the Reapers and Bioware to Cerberus. They say they're not indoctrinated but the heads have been all this time. Slowly being twisted into money sucking monstrosities that feast on organics' wallets.
 
I also believe that Bioware is perfectly capable of messing things up without EA's help, I just thought the image would be good for a laugh in light of all the sturm and drang over the endings, DLC, and whatnot.
 
Yeah. This wasn't EA. The whole blame for this mess is solely on Bioware.

Probably specifically on Casey Hudson and Mac Walters.
Ironically enough, EA is probably the only one who could fix this mess. By forcing Bioware to do something drastic if it looks like future DLC sales are going to plummet.
 
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