Support NeoGAF

[AzureAngel27]

Why are you associating Toriyama with The 3rd Birthday? He was in charge of the scenario, but many of the actual decisions in the game are made by the director. Why would you assume that Toriyama is the one who was responsible for there being costumes in the game, or destructible clothing? Considering the optional content in Type-0 (which Toriyama had nothing at all to do with), Tabata is just as much of a pervert.

As far as there being a "clear pattern" if you want to compare everything Toriyama has worked on, I think you would find that the majority of the games don't actually have the sort of thing you mention. Toriyama is responsible for the scenarios of a TON of games.

Edit: You might want to remove that scan...

Every time he is responsible for the writing it ends up terrible. One reason of many I didn't buy XIII-2, and I was right, one of the weakest points of the game was its nonexistent story.

 

[duckroll]

Ok, I'll accept that point of view. Let's remove the games he's scenario writer and just go with director.

FF7 (part of a group)
FFX (part of a group)
FFx-2
FF12: Revenant Wings
Blood of Bahamut
FF13
FF13-2

At least 3 of those have pretty sexually creepy parts at times. FF7 has already been mentioned. FFX is pretty clean. FFx-2 was his first solo, and that's pretty blatant in every way. FF12rw had absolutely nothing of note at all and that includes a story. FF13 gets a pass, though that's debatable since Vanille orgasms every battle. I can't speak for BoB, never really got into it, but I'll assume for this discussion it's clean. FF13-2 already mentioned.

So that's about half of the works he's had a direct hand in. So perhaps it IS just a coincidence that the works he's on just have some weird dressup insertions, but honestly: I really think after a certain point it becomes more a coincidence and it becomes a pattern.

He was not a director or a major writer on FFVII. Not even as "part of a group". He was just an event planner. He also helped create the Submarine minigame.

Also, if you want to blame someone for the DLC in FFXIII-2, maybe you should blame Toshiyuki Itahana, the guy who actually designed them.

Every time he is responsible for the writing it ends up terrible. One reason of many I didn't buy XIII-2, and I was right, one of the weakest points of the game was its nonexistent story.

He's a pretty bad writer, but we're not discussing that at the moment. Lol.

 

[jaxword]

He was not a director or a major writer on FFVII. Not even as "part of a group". He was just an event planner. He also helped create the Submarine minigame.
.

No, he did more than that:


http://thelifestream.net/final-fantasy-vii/10656/ffvii-the-unused-text-–-part-4/

Kazushige Nojima: What I remember is the Honey Bee Inn, Toriyama (Motomu Toriyama) was in charge of the Honey Bee Inn’s events, but at first what took place there was more extreme, and everyone was saying “That’s going too far.”

Yoshinori Kitase: Was it really that bad?

Nojima: Yeah… for example, Palmer would emerge from the inn saying “Well, that was refreshing!” *laughing*

Kitase: Toriyama was always making weird, tricky little events like that that kept getting edited. For instance, there was once a scene on the station platform where Biggs, Wedge, and Jessie from AVALANCHE would face each other and try to combine into one.

---

And I'd blame Toshiyuki Itahana, except that, as you argued last page, the DIRECTOR is the one issuing the orders, right? So the director would get the final say on what the DLC costumes would look like. So we're flip flopping here on how much blame goes to what role. I don't think we can use titles to make or break the discussion, which is why I use that interview as a clear indicator of Toriyama's sexual insertions.

 

[duckroll]

No, he did more than that:

I don't see how that invalidates what I said. He's an event planner. He planned events in the game. Which part of that don't you understand? It doesn't make him a game director.

Edit: Okay, so you want to blame Toriyama for something he specifically did in a game he didn't direct. But at the same time you want to pin the blame on him for being a director on a game with someone else's specific contribution? See how this is unfair?

 

[jaxword]

I don't see how that invalidates what I said. He's an event planner. He planned events in the game. Which part of that don't you understand? It doesn't make him a game director.

It very, very specifically says that all the weird Honeybee sexual stuff in FF7 is from Toriyama. Are you really saying that because he's not specifically credited as "director" it invalidates it as one of the examples I presented?

Edit--Also, I take the awkward "he always wanted to go too far" admittance as the first indicator that Mr. T wanted far more sexual content. Especially if you read up on the weird kinky kid-panties he wanted Cloud to wear. This is why I REALLY don't think it's a coincidence that as soon as he got his first solo game (FFX-2) it immediately got way more sexual than anything before.

 

[duckroll]

It very, very specifically says that all the weird Honeybee sexual stuff in FF7 is from Toriyama. Are you really saying that because he's not specifically credited as "director" it invalidates it as one of the examples I presented?

You said, and I quote: "Ok, I'll accept that point of view. Let's remove the games he's scenario writer and just go with director."

 

[jaxword]

You said, and I quote: "Ok, I'll accept that point of view. Let's remove the games he's scenario writer and just go with director."

Yes, I did say that, to politely follow that train of discussion to prove or disprove it as viable, as a good debate will allow.

And now we've seen that point of view does not work, because I just cited evidence that says Toriyama did indeed want more sexual content than was allowed, REGARDLESS of his role. So I stand by what I said: as soon as he WAS allowed, he immediately started inserting far more sexuality than the series had before, FFx-2. Also note that I don't consider him "just" a scenario writer for FF7, since he had so much control over the Honeybee section that all the even creepier stuff managed to get all the way to the actual game and was cut last minute before shipping.

 

[GameE]

I have to say Im dying to see a new trailer for this game >_>

 

[duckroll]

Yes, I did say that, to politely follow that train of discussion to prove or disprove it as viable.
And now we've seen that point of view does not work, because I just cited evidence that says Toriyama did indeed want more sexual content than was allowed. So I stand by what I said: as soon as he WAS allowed, he immediately started inserting far more sexuality than the series had before.

But you yourself admitted that there isn't really any actual sexual content at all in FFXIII or FFXIII-2. Nor is there any in FFXIIRW or Blood of Bahamut. These are all games he directed.

In fact, the two games which seem to have the "most" "sexual" content which he has worked on, are his parts of FFVII and FFX-2. What do both of these games have in common? They're heavy on comedy. Wouldn't it rather suggest that his taste in humor is on the naughty side? And when he is working on more serious storylines, it doesn't seem to have much actual influence.

 

[jaxword]

But you yourself admitted that there isn't really any actual sexual content at all in FFXIII or FFXIII-2. Nor is there any in FFXIIRW or Blood of Bahamut. These are all games he directed.

In fact, the two games which seem to have the "most" "sexual" content which he has worked on, are his parts of FFVII and FFX-2. What do both of these games have in common? They're heavy on comedy. Wouldn't it rather suggest that his taste in humor is on the naughty side? And when he is working on more serious storylines, it doesn't seem to have much actual influence.

It is very debatable how funny that sexuality truly is. I really don't think Cloud dressing in Marlene's panties is funny, just really creepy. And I believe I specifically said Vanille's battle-orgasms put FF13 into an iffy light. FFx-2 as well, yes, it's funny, but there's some really creepy parts too, like Brother's incestuousness, random hot springs, and the general underage-girl nakedness.

I accept the possibility that he may just have a perverted sense of humor. Do you accept the possibility otherwise?

I choose to disagree because I see enough evidence to suggest otherwise, especially after the Ultimania revelations. If there's more evidence coming to prove me wrong, then I'll accept it, but as it stands, he doesn't look good. If the FF13 Ultimania has Toriyama say something like "Yes, I deliberately toned down my ecchi sense of humor, sorry fans!" then sure, that's reasonable. Until then, I let the current evidence stand.

 

[duckroll]

It is very debatable how funny that sexuality truly is. I really don't think Cloud dressing in Marlene's panties is funny, just really creepy. And I believe I specifically said Vanille's battle-orgasms put FF13 into an iffy light. FFx-2 as well, yes, it's funny, but there's some really creepy parts too, like Brother's incestuousness, random hot springs, and the general underage-girl nakedness.

I accept the possibility that he may just have a perverted sense of humor. I disagree, because I see enough evidence to suggest otherwise, especially after the Ultimania revelations.

Do you realize that a lot of this humor is stock Japanese humor? It is definitely considered acceptable humor in Japanese culture, and stuff like that makes a frequent appearance in manga, anime, novels, and also other Japanese games. I'm not saying it's not creepy to some people, or that it's not perverted, but it's not unique to Toriyama. Have you played Star Ocean 4 for example? It is far worse there.

 

[zoukka]

So is someone saying the sexual implications and undertones were a bad thing? Fuck man you guys deserve how the series is nowadays...

 

[duckroll]

I like how we're just wasting time debating how perverted Toriyama is, in a Versus thread, when he has nothing to do with the game. That just shows how pathetic Versus is. Not even worthy of discussion in its own thread.

 

[jaxword]

Do you realize that a lot of this humor is stock Japanese humor? It is definitely considered acceptable humor in Japanese culture, and stuff like that makes a frequent appearance in manga, anime, novels, and also other Japanese games. I'm not saying it's not creepy to some people, or that it's not perverted, but it's not unique to Toriyama. Have you played Star Ocean 4 for example? It is far worse there.

I have no problem with that sort of humor, but when the OTHER team members like Nojima are saying "He kept going too far" it doesn't paint him in a good light.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because I've given my reasons and evidence and said I'd change if more evidence is suggested--do you accept the same for your stance?

 

[zoukka]

I would love some real romances in Final Fantasy games. Hell... just make one for us adults.

 

[duckroll]

I have no problem with that sort of humor, but when the OTHER team members like Nojima are saying "He kept going too far" it doesn't paint him in a good light.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because I've given my reasons and evidence and said I'd change if more evidence is suggested--do you accept the same for your stance?

I think you're taking a mini-interview in an Ultimania where the other members are poking fun at a fellow team member way too seriously. You seem to be treating it like a dead serious interview where they are all criticizing him for something they do not approve of, when the actual tone of that exchange is meant to be humorous, and they're talking about silly shit which he put in the game.

Of course you're probably going to say that you disagree with that as well, so whatever.

 

[iKeepPlaying]

I like how we're just wasting time debating how perverted Toriyama is, in a Versus thread, when he has nothing to do with the game. That just shows how pathetic Versus is. Not even worthy of discussion in its own thread.

Delicious tears ;D

 

[jaxword]

I think you're taking a mini-interview in an Ultimania where the other members are poking fun at a fellow team member way too seriously. You seem to be treating it like a dead serious interview where they are all criticizing him for something they do not approve of, when the actual tone of that exchange is meant to be humorous, and they're talking about silly shit which he put in the game.

Of course you're probably going to say that you disagree with that as well, so whatever.

I don't know, man, you really seem dead set on refusing to even consider an opposing point of view. I don't think the interview is as silly as you make it, especially if you read the entire thing and combine the freaking underage panty crossdressing, that's just beyond any humor. I've already said I respect your point of view, though I disagree with it for stated reasons, so I think it's a little sad you dismiss doing the same so cavalierly.

I would love some real romances in Final Fantasy games. Hell... just make one for us adults.

Fran and Balthier.

 

[zoukka]

I don't know, man, you really seem dead set on refusing to even consider an opposing point of view. I don't think the interview is as silly as you make it, especially when combined with the freaking underage panty crossdressing, that's just beyond any humor.

It is dead apparent that the interview had a light hearted tone dude.

Fran and Balthier.

The fact that I can't even remember a single line between the characters or what happened to them tells a story about the "intensivity" of said "romance".

 

[Zwei]

Not even worthy of discussion in its own thread.

yeah, it's hard to discuss a game that doesn't exist. :\

 

[duckroll]

I don't know, man, you really seem dead set on refusing to even consider an opposing point of view. I don't think the interview is as silly as you make it, especially when combined with the freaking underage panty crossdressing, that's just beyond any humor. I've already said I respect your point of view, though I disagree with it for stated reasons, so I think it's a little sad you dismiss doing the same so cavalierly.

I'm not dismissing anything. I'm just arguing against your points. You bring up a point, I bring up a counter-point. That's the purpose of a debate. It doesn't need to have any sort of decisive conclusion, especially when the subject matter is something no one here can confirm, given that it is about a third party neither of us know personally. If you are no longer bored and don't want to continue the debate, you're free to stop. If I get bored of it, I can also stop replying.

Or Nomura could release some information about Versus first so we can talk about that instead. But that's not happening anytime soon.

 

[The Emperor]

So is someone saying the sexual implications and undertones were a bad thing? Fuck man you guys deserve how the series is nowadays...

Only if Toriyama is in charge of them

If Toriyama is in charge of something it has to be bad or unredeemable in some way.

 

[Shadow780]

Wait til Toriyama announces FF dating sim, and you'll see who is the true savior of SE.

 

[Aru]

Wait til Toriyama announces FF dating sim, and you'll see who is the true savior of SE.

If it involves Rosa, Adult Rydia, Reina, Terra, Celes, Tifa, Aeris, Quistis, Yuna and Lightning, day 1.

 

[Meccanical]

If it involves Rosa, Adult Rydia, Reina, Terra, Celes, Tifa, Aeris, Quistis, Yuna and Lightning, day 1.

Will buy if there's a harem ending.

 

[duckroll]

I think we found all 4 of Toriyama fans right here.

 

[RustyNails]

I think we found all 4 of Toriyama fans right here.

lol

 

[zoukka]

I did not imply I like the man

 

[charlequin]

I think Square is starting to learn.

Yes, they definitely are, although it's still a very big change to make on an organizational level and FFXIII-2 shows that they've still got a ways to go with it.

Versus began at the same time as XIII, though. I wouldn't be surprised if it suffers from the same problems.

Yep. I am confident that we will hear about all the exact same problems (assets created early on but gameplay systems being implemented very late, scope explosion that makes design difficult to manage and execute, constant engine rewrites due to bad planning, etc.) after Versus is complete.

I don't know, man, you really seem dead set on refusing to even consider an opposing point of view.

Life's too short to take some things seriously.

I thought it had a great battle system but really poor everything else.

It's sad to be wrong about things.

 

[The Lamp]

This game better have one badass collector's edition, complete with a Noctis wig and a saucy 7-season blu-ray novela about the woes of developing this game.

 

[Ravage]

http://andriasang.com/comu2f/nomura_on_dissidida_future/
-Dengeki asked Nomura what's next for the Dissidia series. "There is no next," replied Nomura. "We're thinking about ending this pattern of Dissidia here.
-The Dissidia series may not necessarily be over, though. Said Nomura, "For the Dissidia series, there's the possibility of it appearing in another form. However, we feel that we've done all we can with the battle base. We had the staff work for years on one on one battles, so I'd like to let them do another genre. I feel we've done all we can with this pattern of Dissidia. However, it is exciting to see past characters revived in 3D. So, if given the chance, we'd like to do something as Dissidia. however, I don't think it will be this Dissidia."

http://andriasang.com/comwyu/famitsu_squenix_feature/
-Back when Dissidia Duodecim Final Fantasy was about to see release, Nomura told Dengeki that if they made a future Dissidia game it would not be a fighting-based game (see this story). Famitsu asked Nomura this week if he was talking about the 3DS rhythm game Theatrhythm Final Fantasy. The answer is no -- he was referring to something else.

I was fully expecting a crossover RPG when Dissidia was first announced. A FF spinoff series featuring all the leads and villians living together in an alternate world would have been something amazing. They could even set it in a parallel universe version of Midgar to appease all the FF7 remake diehards.

i think Team Osaka seems competent/good enough to promote to a real sequel
especially if it's on 3DS

Ugh, i hope not >.<
KH3 needs to be a full-fledged console title.

 

[jaxword]

It is dead apparent that the interview had a light hearted tone dude.



The fact that I can't even remember a single line between the characters or what happened to them tells a story about the "intensivity" of said "romance".

Eh, keep reading the articles and they get progressively creepier, leading to Marlene's panties.


Anyways, moving on since we've reached an impasse....

Balthier and Fran's relationship is very subtle and not in your face as every other FF, but it is there. Arguably, isn't that the "adult" relationship you were asking for? No teenage "OMG WE ARE In LOVE AND GOING TO HAVE OUR FIRST SEX TONIGHT" but a mature, respectful and trusting relationship?

They drop extremely quick hints here and there on the dialogue but if you're not paying attention they can be missed.

Off the top of my head:
-Balthier makes a few subtle and smug remarks about Fran's sexual kinks (she doesn't like being tied up, but she really knows what men like, etc.)
-Fran knows Balthier's family issues that he has never told ANYONE.
-There's an NPC somewhere, I forget where, that says he's in love with a Viera but would never have considered it if he didn't hear about a very famous and unique Hume/Viera couple out there.
-The ending pretty much spells it out that Balthier REALLY goes back for Fran and saving the Bahamut is secondary.
-There's probably more I'm not remembering at the moment. I think there's lots of body language cues too.


And if that's not enough, Revenant Wings flat out says it, but I find that bluntness to be rather unappealing when I am praising at how well-done the subtlety was.

 

[CorvoSol]

Which moment was that? I played this game back in 1996 and have sort of forgotten all but the main outline of the plot. Something about Don Juan and his lecherous ways?

No, I'm referring to Bahamut Lagoon. Which is pretty straightforward in the romance department until

Spoiler

the love interest inexplicably dumps the hero but expects him to do everything for her anyway.

Why are you associating Toriyama with The 3rd Birthday? He was in charge of the scenario, but many of the actual decisions in the game are made by the director. Why would you assume that Toriyama is the one who was responsible for there being costumes in the game, or destructible clothing? Considering the optional content in Type-0 (which Toriyama had nothing at all to do with), Tabata is just as much of a pervert.

I assume this refers only to Toriyama not being responsible for the clothing in 3rd Birthday? (Which really doesn't bother me, even if the "fanservice" was pretty creepy by the shower scene.) Because the story is all his doing. He's listed as the game's writer. And boy, does it show.

Only if Toriyama is in charge of them

If Toriyama is in charge of something it has to be bad or unredeemable in some way.

Probably because the man has the anti-Midas touch. Whatever he touches quite literally decreases in quality the longer he touches it.

 

[iKeepPlaying]

If it involves Rosa, Little and Adult Rydia, Reina, Terra, Celes, Tifa, Aerith, Quistis, Yuna and Lightning, day 1.

Fixed, but

shutupandtakemymoney.jpg

 

[duckroll]

This game better have one badass collector's edition, complete with a Noctis wig and a saucy 7-season blu-ray novela about the woes of developing this game.

They're packing in Marlene's panties, just for jaxword.

 

[xxczx]

I would love some real romances in Final Fantasy games. Hell... just make one for us adults.

Cloud and Barrett.

 

[Zuly]

I would love some real romances in Final Fantasy games. Hell... just make one for us adults.

As sad as it may be, I think the only "couple" I enjoyed watching was Ramza and Ovelia.

 

[jaxword]

As sad as it may be, I think the only "couple" I enjoyed watching was Ramza and Ovelia.

At least they had a happy ending, unlike everyone else in the FFT cast.

 

[Famassu]

Yep. I am confident that we will hear about all the exact same problems (assets created early on but gameplay systems being implemented very late, scope explosion that makes design difficult to manage and execute, constant engine rewrites due to bad planning, etc.) after Versus is complete.

Meh, I still don't think they've been in any kind of development hell or had lack of direction or anything like that. The "problem" is simply the fact that they are developing a massive game and they don't seem to be making any sacrifices. It's basically a game that tries to offer an RPG more comparable to Uncharted when it comes to the audiovisual/technical side of things (that is, they aren't pulling any punches with the graphics & more cinematic stuff), but with a semi-open-world-ish approach that's closer to Bethesda's games than more recent FFs and with the kind of polish FF games are known for (that is, it shouldn't be a buggy mess like Bethesda's open world games are).

Their approach seems to have been very different from the usual (which is probably possible because they've had a relatively small team doing all the preparations & tech building, not thousands of people working on it from day 1). From interviews it sounds like if they've thought up some new idea mid-development, they've gone ahead and implemented it (biggest examples probably being the shift from their original plan for a world map into something different and the change from traditional cutscenes into more interactive ones). And of course they've been improving the graphics engine all this time (implementing the lighting tech from Luminous Engine etc.). Maybe that's not the most financially wise way of developing a game, but I do think it will make Versus all the much better.

Also, I'm pretty sure you're wrong with your assessment that they'd have implemented gameplay systems very late. Nomura seemed to have some pretty good ideas of where he was taking the gameplay even in early interviews. For examples, he talked about Noctis' skills like teleporting to his sword(s), which we've now seen in the January 2011 trailer. He was also pretty clear about how Versus would be more like traditional FFs in some regards than XIII (and it is). They already talked about testing airships a long time ago and have since confirmed that they are a part of the game (and not just recently). The trailer from January 2011 shows a working version of the battle system with on the fly party member changes, different skills between characters, using enemy (war) machinery, plenty of different kinds of enemy types you can approach in different ways, taking advantage of the environments, environmental destruction, different kind of interactive cinematic scenes etc. Plus we know that Chocobos have been in for quite some time and that you can drive around in a car. These are all things that Nomura has talked about a long time ago already, so I'm pretty sure a lack of direction has never been the problem, not like how Toriyama & Kitase didn't know shit about what to do with FFXIII. The 2009 demo of FFXIII was pretty barebones, whereas the January 2011 trailer of Versus showed a diverse set of features, situations & events.

Again, the problem (at least after the early problems with the Crystal Tools were a thing of the past) is the scope of the project and how ambitious it is. They had a small team working on the game for a long time to prepare the game to be in a state where they can just start crunching out the bulk of the content of the game without having to worry about there being some technical difficulties or big changes in plans (and this seems to have happened around late Summer/early Fall 2011).

I'm not denying there hasn't probably been plenty of trial & error, but I wouldn't equate that to development hell or having a generally troubled development. Duke Nukem Forever could be said to have been in one simply because it's a fairly short FPS and it doesn't really try anything special at that. FF Versus XIII is taking somewhat long because the scope is so big and it seems like they are really trying to put all their effort into making this Nomura's be-all, end-all Final Fantasy. They are trying a lot of new things or in some cases old things but updated/-graded to today's standards, which very few games have tried to do while also having the kind of high production values FF games are known for.

 

[Dunan]

No, I'm referring to Bahamut Lagoon. Which is pretty straightforward in the romance department until

Spoiler

the love interest inexplicably dumps the hero but expects him to do everything for her anyway.

Yeah, there was that, but wasn't Don Juan also perving on some of the very young girls in your party? It was a long time ago so I might be mis-remembering.

There were also the dirty books that you could feed to your dragons. And Sendak, the creepy old gay dude who couldn't hide his feelings for protagonist Byu. Yeah, this game had some questionable stuff in it, for 1995.

 

[Jubern]

At least they had a happy ending, unlike everyone else in the FFT cast.

Ramza yeah, Ovelia notsomuch.

 

[Verelios]

As sad as it may be, I think the only "couple" I enjoyed watching was Ramza and Ovelia.

...I'm sorry, what?

 

[Meccanical]

...I'm sorry, what?

I think he means Alma.

Bit that was his sister so I hope not.

Yet incest was fairly common in those times...

 

[ZombiePlatypus]

Wait til Toriyama announces FF dating sim, and you'll see who is the true savior of SE.

You know what'd be hilarious? If they actually made one but it was a G-rated, tame but insane and wacky dating-sim, where your potential suitors were only Cactaurs, Tornberries, Chocobos and Moogles. Cries of all the fans who were hoping for Tifa and Lulu waifus would be a spectacle.

 

[charlequin]

Meh, I still don't think they've been in any kind of development hell or had lack of direction or anything like that.

Right, because you're choosing to ignore the plain-as-day facts because you prefer to be optimistic, or cling to some nonsense simplistic narrative about the "good" and "bad" people at Square-Enix, or something of that sort.

The "problem" is simply the fact that they are developing a massive game and they don't seem to be making any sacrifices.

Other teams manage this all the time. Let me try to make it clear how little water this excuse holds: entire series of games with comparably massive content have come and gone in the time this game has nominally been in production. Bethesda released Fallout 3 and Skyrim in the interim. CD Projekt put out The Witcher and The Witcher 2, including the latter's post-release 360 port. Ubisoft will have developed and released five Assassin's Creed games in this span of time.

Also, I'm pretty sure you're wrong with your assessment that they'd have implemented gameplay systems very late. Nomura seemed to have some pretty good ideas of where he was taking the gameplay even in early interviews.

This part is just not accurate. We were hearing about significant, game-altering changes to the systems quite late, like in 2010 (or was it 2011?) when they were talking about completely changing how the world map worked. The game has visibly followed SE's traditional (and inferior) waterfall development strategy rather than building working, system-complete gameplay slices early on and iterating on them.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

Bethesda released Fallout 3 and Skyrim in the interim. CD Projekt put out The Witcher and The Witcher 2, including the latter's post-release 360 port. Ubisoft will have developed and released five Assassin's Creed games in this span of time.

This cracks me up in a sort of depressing way. It's so absurd it's funny.

 

[Dunan]

Ubisoft will have developed and released five Assassin's Creed games in this span of time.

Wow; I'd never quite thought about it that way. As of 2006, I probably thought of the "Matsuno/Ito trilogy" of SE games (FFT, VS, and FF12) as my favorite "series" of games, and since then Assassin's Creed has probably taken over that spot with four mainline HD games (one more scheduled) plus two more on portables plus (if you want to count it) a Facebook game (that I played to completion). All since FF Versus was announced.

 

[Supermanisdead]

I would love some real romances in Final Fantasy games. Hell... just make one for us adults.

Square doesn't care about adults. Adults are weak, they die easy.

 

[Splash Wave]

Other teams manage this all the time. Let me try to make it clear how little water this excuse holds: entire series of games with comparably massive content have come and gone in the time this game has nominally been in production. Bethesda released Fallout 3 and Skyrim in the interim. CD Projekt put out The Witcher and The Witcher 2, including the latter's post-release 360 port. Ubisoft will have developed and released five Assassin's Creed games in this span of time.

This really puts into perspective how fucking insane this whole thing is.

 

[Labadal]

Another way to look at it: Released SE related games AFTER the Versus XIII announcement.

Final Fantasy III DS
Final Fantasy V Advance
Final Fantasy VI Advance
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo Tales
Dawn of Mana
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker
Heroes of Mana
Front Mission DS
Kingdom Hears 2 Final Mix+
Final Fantasy PSP
Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
Final Fantasy Tactics: The War of the Lions
Final Fantasy II PSP
Itadaki Street DS
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors
The World Ends with You
Final Fantasy XII International Zodiac Job System
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Ring of Fates
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift
Dragon Quest IV: Chapters of the Chosen
Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
Final Fantasy IV
Front Mission 2089: Border of Madness
Lord of Vermilion
Dragon Quest V: Hand of the Heavenly Bride
Sigma Harmonics
Chrono Trigger DS
The Last Remnant
Dissidia Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time DS
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: Echoes of Time Wii
The Last Remnant PC
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days
Dragon Quest IX: Sentinels of the Starry Skies
Blood of Bahamut
SaGa 2: Hih&#333; Densetsu Goddess of Destiny
Lord of Vermilion II
Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light
Dissidia: Final Fantasy Universal Tuning
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers
Final Fantasy XIII
Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep
Dragon Quest VI: Realms of Revelation
Lufia: Curse of the Sinistrals
Nier
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2
Dragon Quest: Monsters Battle Road Victory
Front Mission Evolved
Final Fantasy XIV
Kingdom Hearts Re:coded
Lord of Arcana
Chocobo's Crystal Tower
Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together
The 3rd Birthday
SaGa 3: Shadow or Light
Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep Final Mix
Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy IV: The Complete Collection
Dragon Quest Monsters: Joker 2 Professional
Final Fantasy Type-0
Slime MoriMori Dragon Quest 3: Daikaizoku to Shippodan
Fortune Street
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Army Corps of Hell
Lord of Apocalypse
Theatrhythm Final Fantasy

These games were either developed or published by Square Enix. There were lots of games I decided not to include. THIS is ridicilous.