Family of Florida boy killed by Neighborhood Watch seeks arrest

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malingenie said:
Every time this thread is in the front page without an update (Watch Member Arrested!), I lose a little faith. And an angel gets anally raped.
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Not possible.

dogma.bmp
 
KHarvey16 said:
I said from the very beginning that if Zimmerman acted aggressively or gave the kid a reason to act out in defense because he felt in danger this wasn't self defense. From the very beginning. Good work.
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No. You repeatedly maintained that Zimmerman might have acted in self defense, despite others saying that he likely put himself in that situation by instigating the confrontation which would destroy his self defense case. You repeatedly said that it didn't matter if Zimmerman ignored orders from the police not to confront Martin.
 
Mortrialus said:
No. You repeatedly maintained that Zimmerman might have acted in self defense, despite others saying that he likely put himself in that situation by instigating the confrontation which would destroy his self defense case.
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THIS.

We've known since damn near the very beginning that he instigated and exacerbated the situation by:

1.) Following the kid for blocks (he undoubtedly noticed)

2.) Getting out of the car despite dispatchers telling him not to

3.) Getting out with the attitude that accompanies someone who has decided that "they always get away...[but not today]."


People went out of the way in this thread--including citing painful personal experiences--to illustrate to KHarvey and others how this guys actions were aggressive AND how frightening they would have been to a 17 year old, 140lbs kid from Miami, as he thinks over all the possible reasons why a guy would be following him in the twilight in an unmarked car when he's done nothing wrong. Rape? Kidnapping? Robbery? You're thinking about defending yourself and/or runnnig. You're thinking about screaming for help.

Then even after we find out about this guy's record, the same faces continue to ride the "no jury would convict", "they shouldn't arrest him" crazy train.

Honestly, I think if the kid was a female, or if he was white the imagery some have used to paint this situation in their mind's eye would have resulted in them arguing the other way. But you know...black kid...he must be able to fight and he must be scary, even if 100lbs lighter and with no criminal history or even questionable conduct in school. Like it's acceptable to assume a white man should inherently be afraid of a black man, and thus use of firearms is reasonable.
 
Mortrialus said:
No. You repeatedly maintained that Zimmerman might have acted in self defense, despite others saying that he likely put himself in that situation by instigating the confrontation which would destroy his self defense case. You repeatedly said that it didn't matter if Zimmerman ignored orders from the police not to confront Martin.
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"Might". "Likely". You say no as if what you quoted were untrue. It isn't, and I don't understand what you're saying. I have always said if Zimmerman approached aggressively or in a threatening manner it was not self defense. The fact he acted against the suggestion made by the operator isn't relevant to the specific point being discussed.
 
How exactly is the grown up here acting on self defense when he's the one stalking the kid with a gun? Who was following who?
It makes no logical sense at all.

If the kid killed the man who was stalking him based on allegations of self-defense we would actually have something to discuss here because now we're getting into gray territory. This case (or lack therefore) isn't.
 
KHarvey16 said:
"Might". "Likely". You say no as if what you quoted were untrue. It isn't, and I don't understand what you're saying. I have always said if Zimmerman approached aggressively or in a threatening manner it was not self defense.
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No. You have repeatedly said that him stalking Martin in a car wasn't stalking and wouldn't worry anyone.

KHarvey16 said:
The fact he acted against the suggestion made by the operator isn't relevant to the specific point being discussed.
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It is relevant, and you just read an independent prosecutor's explanation of how it is relevant because Zimmerman put himself in a situation which lead to him shooting Martin against orders from the operator which damages his claims of self defense as it shows him as an instigator.
 
Mortrialus said:
No. You have repeatedly said that him stalking Martin in a car wasn't stalking and wouldn't worry anyone.


It is relevant, and you just read an independent prosecutor's explanation of how it is relevant because Zimmerman put himself in a situation which lead to him shooting Martin against orders from the operator which damages his claims of self defense as it shows him as an instigator.
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I said pulling up near someone in your car isn't necessarily and always an aggressive or threatening act. I said the case basically hinged upon how this was conducted by Zimmerman. I didn't say he wasn't threatening because I don't know how he did it. How fucking more clear do I need to be? When will you and others stop reading whatever the hell you want to and perhaps pay attention to the words I put a small bit of effort in choosing for a reason?

The fact he didn't follow a suggestion(NOT an order!) by the operator does not by itself and alone constitute Zimmerman forfeiting his ability to defend himself. It, like everything we're discussing, depends on how and why he stepped out of the car in the first place. This has consistently been my position.
 
Mortrialus, not knocking you at all, but I would recommend against wasting your time arguing with KHarvey. He's a contrarian who argues for the sake of arguing. When you demolish his original point, he finds a new one. The cycle repeats.

If you look at the link on his tag, this was the same guy that was chastising people for having the opinion that the balloon boy hoax was exactly that, a hoax. When it was proven to be a hoax, he opted to continue pointing out the wrongs of others, presumably just to see his own text.

It's the same shit, arguing in circles and jumping from tangent to tangent, mocking people for "being experts" while being aggressively adamant that he is right and we are all wrong. He'll just pick your words for things to bitch at you and others about, endlessly.

Save your time while you still can. Don't feed him.
 
MightyHealthy said:
Mortrialus, not knocking you at all, but I would recommend against wasting your time arguing with KHarvey. He's a contrarian who argues for the sake of arguing. When you demolish his original point, he finds a new one. The cycle repeats.

If you look at the link on his tag, this was the same guy that was chastising people for having the opinion that the balloon boy hoax was exactly that, a hoax. When it was proven to be a hoax, he opted to continue pointing out the wrongs of others, presumably just to see his own text.

It's the same shit, arguing in circles and jumping from tangent to tangent, mocking people for "being experts" while being aggressively adamant that he is right and we are all wrong. He'll just pick your words for things to bitch at you and others about, endlessly.

Save your time while you still can. Don't feed him.
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Do me a favor: tell me what my original point was(since apparently it's been changed unbeknownst to me), what demolished it and what it is now.
 
MightyHealthy said:
Mortrialus, not knocking you at all, but I would recommend against wasting your time arguing with KHarvey. He's a contrarian who argues for the sake of arguing. When you demolish his original point, he finds a new one. The cycle repeats.

If you look at the link on his tag, this was the same guy that was chastising people for having the opinion that the balloon boy hoax was exactly that, a hoax. When it was proven to be a hoax, he opted to continue pointing out the wrongs of others, presumably just to see his own text.

It's the same shit, arguing in circles and jumping from tangent to tangent, mocking people for "being experts" while being aggressively adamant that he is right and we are all wrong. He'll just pick your words for things to bitch at you and others about, endlessly.

Save your time while you still can. Don't feed him.
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So true. We all know Kharvey likes to troll/argue. Just don't feed him.

Lets just get back to the reason for the thread.

I just watched the USA today footage. I am happy more people are seeing this terrible situation.

edit: Good morning america footage here: http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/florida-teen-killed-by-community-watch-member-28656689.html
 
MightyHealthy said:
Mortrialus, not knocking you at all, but I would recommend against wasting your time arguing with KHarvey. He's a contrarian who argues for the sake of arguing. When you demolish his original point, he finds a new one. The cycle repeats.

If you look at the link on his tag, this was the same guy that was chastising people for having the opinion that the balloon boy hoax was exactly that, a hoax. When it was proven to be a hoax, he opted to continue pointing out the wrongs of others, presumably just to see his own text.

It's the same shit, arguing in circles and jumping from tangent to tangent, mocking people for "being experts" while being aggressively adamant that he is right and we are all wrong. He'll just pick your words for things to bitch at you and others about, endlessly.

Save your time while you still can. Don't feed him.
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THANK YOU

god damn, just let it go folks. stop even mentioning his name in your posts
 
Yeah, that's been wrapped up ever since he dodged that "what if a car rolled up on you?" shit over and over (what if they just wanted directions!). He wants to keep posting... fine, just don't encourage him.
 
I can't believe the mom answered "Couldn't you have handled the situation differently?" when asked what she would ask Zimmerman. So painful to hear, because we all know the answer.
 
justjohn said:
If the victims family was White I'm sure Obama would've called them by now to offer his sympathy.
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I know you're just trolling, but if he were white, he would have almost certainly not been shot, as Zimmerman's actions seem very motivated by race. If the shooter were nonwhite and the victim white, the police, sadly, would have likely been more sympathetic and at least arrested the shooter. In such a case, this would not have made national news. I can only hope that this national media attention will lead to an arrest in this case and lead to a thorough investigation of the Sanford PD.
 
Between reading this and the Batman 3 thread, this whole situation reminded me of that asshole from The Dark Knight Returns:

Byron_Brassballs.jpg


Byron_Brassballs_4.jpg
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I can just imagine Zimmerman saying that to the press.

"Oh the Skittles? A lot of them have Skittles. You know what I mean."
 
commedieu said:
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!friendly reminder, don't feed the troll..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also,

http://twitter.com/#!/unclerush Looks like Russell Simmons and a few others have tweeted/acknowledged the events.

petition with 300k signatures.


http://www.change.org/petitions/prosecute-the-killer-of-17-year-old-trayvon-martin
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Intresting article that Russel Simmons retweeted some quotes below but the whole thing is worth a read. Of course most of the observations are nothing new to some folks on here... but it's always good to remind oneself that for some the rules are slightly 'different'.

White People, You Will Never Look Suspicious Like Trayvon Martin


Read more: http://globalgrind.com/node/828497#ixzz1paVWvZ5S

I will never look suspicious to you. Even if I have a black hoodie, a pair of jeans and white sneakers on...in fact, that is what I wore yesterday...I still will never look suspicious. No matter how much the hoodie covers my face or how baggie my jeans are, I will never look out of place to you. I will never watch a taxi cab pass me by to pick someone else up. I will never witness someone clutch their purse tightly against their body as they walk by me. I won't have to worry about a police car following me for two miles, so they can "run my plates." I will never have to pay before I eat. And I certainly will never get "stopped and frisked." I will never look suspicious to you, because of one thing and one thing only. The color of my skin. I am white.

I was born white. It was the card I was dealt. No choice in the matter. Just the card handed out by the dealer. I have lived my whole life privileged. Privileged to be born without a glass ceiling. Privileged to grow up in the richest country in the world. Privileged to never look suspicious. I have no guilt for the color of my skin or the privilege that I have. Remember, it was just the next card that came out of the deck. But, I have choices. I got choices on how I play the hand I was dealt. I got a lot of options. The ball is in my court.
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only two weeks ago when almost every white person I knew was tweeting about stopping a brutal African warlord from killing more innocent children. And they even took thirty minutes out of their busy schedules to watch a movie about dude. They bought t-shirts. Some bracelets. Even tweeted at Rihanna to take a stance. But, a 17 year old American kid is followed and then ultimately killed by a neighborhood vigilante who happens to be carrying a semi-automatic weapon and my white friends are quiet. Eerily quiet. Not even a trending topic for the young man.
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let's be clear. Let's be very, very clear. Before the neighborhood watch captain, George Zimmerman, started following him against the better judgement of the 911 dispatcher. Before any altercation. Before any self-defense claim. Before Travyon's cries for help were heard on the 911 tapes. Before the bullet hit him dead in the chest. Before all of this. He was suspicious. He was suspicious. suspicious. And you know, like I know, it wasn't because of the hoodie or the jeans or the sneakers. Cause I had on that same outfit yesterday and no one called 911 saying I was just wandering around their neighborhood. It was because of one thing and one thing only. Trayvon is black.
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No arrest yet? If that was my relative this Zimmerman fellow would have his head blown off by the end of the week.
 
commedieu said:
kinda fear thats going to happen.. : thats what we dont need. This guy needs to be in jail.
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That's completely understandable and deep down in me I think you are right, but despite that, in this case I wouldn't feel sympathy if someone gunned down Zimmerman in a similar fashion (hell, I would do it myself if that was my relative and that's not 'Internet tough guy' talk). The last few minutes of the victims life were pure terror, there has to be retribution for this crime.

shuri said:
u so hardcore
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You are weak. You would let someone do that to your family? If the law won't step in, I would feel justified defending my family.
 
I kind of didn't want to post this since it's personal, but the hold up might not be the race/self defense thing. If Zimmerman has connections to the cops,this might drag on for a long time.....

I live in Lansing, MIchigan, a few blocks away from the Capitol building. On New Year's Eve, my best friend up here was killed by a bouncer of a popular bar. Mind you, this murder happened 2 blocks away from the capitol building, two blocks away Lansing Police Headquarters, two blocks away from Michigan State Police Headquarters, and about 3 blocks from Cooley Law School. There were witnesses that posted about how the bouncer chased my friend down a block from behind, and beat him to death by hitting him in the back of the head with a baton multiple times.

This was on New Year's Eve. It was the first murder of the year in the capital city of Michigan. Today it's March 19th, and there have been no arrests. The police haven't even released a name a real suspect. The only thing they released was a few days after Travis passed away (he was in a coma for a few days before he died, but the damage was so great, for all intents and purposes, he was dead New Year's Eve) was a small blurb in the paper that the police were looking for "a black man named Don who was wearing jeans and a t-shirt". Thanks a lot Lansing police!

Everyday I check the paper for news. I want justice for my friend. There are plenty of rumors going around about how the bouncer was an ex-cop (or at least was in training). I've heard this rumor from people I trust that work those bars. My best friend was 30 and had dreams one day of having a family of his own. He was a great guy that was always giving to others without ever asking for anything in return. His family buried him in early January. And all the people left behind can do, like Trayvon's family, is hope that justice will be done.
 
B!TCH said:
You are weak. You would let someone do that to your family? If the law won't step in, I would feel justified defending my family.
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There's a good chance he's going to be arrested in the near future. You'd rot in prison for years because you couldn't wait a couple weeks.
 
East Lake said:
There's a good chance he's going to be arrested in the near future. You'd rot in prison for years because you couldn't wait a couple weeks.
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I probably wouldn't in Florida, but okay, let's wait a couple of weeks and see what happens.
 
obijkenobi said:
I kind of didn't want to post this since it's personal, but the hold up might not be the race/self defense thing. If Zimmerman has connections to the cops,this might drag on for a long time.....

I live in Lansing, MIchigan, a few blocks away from the Capitol building. On New Year's Eve, my best friend up here was killed by a bouncer of a popular bar. Mind you, this murder happened 2 blocks away from the capitol building, two blocks away Lansing Police Headquarters, two blocks away from Michigan State Police Headquarters, and about 3 blocks from Cooley Law School. There were witnesses that posted about how the bouncer chased my friend down a block from behind, and beat him to death by hitting him in the back of the head with a baton multiple times.

This was on New Year's Eve. It was the first murder of the year in the capital city of Michigan. Today it's March 19th, and there have been no arrests. The police haven't even released a name a real suspect. The only thing they released was a few days after Travis passed away (he was in a coma for a few days before he died, but the damage was so great, for all intents and purposes, he was dead New Year's Eve) was a small blurb in the paper that the police were looking for "a black man named Don who was wearing jeans and a t-shirt". Thanks a lot Lansing police!

Everyday I check the paper for news. I want justice for my friend. There are plenty of rumors going around about how the bouncer was an ex-cop (or at least was in training). I've heard this rumor from people I trust that work those bars. My best friend was 30 and had dreams one day of having a family of his own. He was a great guy that was always giving to others without ever asking for anything in return. His family buried him in early January. And all the people left behind can do, like Trayvon's family, is hope that justice will be done.
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My condolences to you.

I hope justice is served too.
 
obijkenobi said:
I kind of didn't want to post this since it's personal, but the hold up might not be the race/self defense thing. If Zimmerman has connections to the cops,this might drag on for a long time.....

I live in Lansing, MIchigan, a few blocks away from the Capitol building. On New Year's Eve, my best friend up here was killed by a bouncer of a popular bar. Mind you, this murder happened 2 blocks away from the capitol building, two blocks away Lansing Police Headquarters, two blocks away from Michigan State Police Headquarters, and about 3 blocks from Cooley Law School. There were witnesses that posted about how the bouncer chased my friend down a block from behind, and beat him to death by hitting him in the back of the head with a baton multiple times.

This was on New Year's Eve. It was the first murder of the year in the capital city of Michigan. Today it's March 19th, and there have been no arrests. The police haven't even released a name a real suspect. The only thing they released was a few days after Travis passed away (he was in a coma for a few days before he died, but the damage was so great, for all intents and purposes, he was dead New Year's Eve) was a small blurb in the paper that the police were looking for "a black man named Don who was wearing jeans and a t-shirt". Thanks a lot Lansing police!

Everyday I check the paper for news. I want justice for my friend. There are plenty of rumors going around about how the bouncer was an ex-cop (or at least was in training). I've heard this rumor from people I trust that work those bars. My best friend was 30 and had dreams one day of having a family of his own. He was a great guy that was always giving to others without ever asking for anything in return. His family buried him in early January. And all the people left behind can do, like Trayvon's family, is hope that justice will be done.
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How many people went to the cops and told them who did it and that they witnessed it?
 
I remember reading an article about the militarization of police in the 70's (might have been on GAF). It talked about how cops used to feel like they had a duty to protect the people, but when the ex-military entered the police force following Vietnam, the mood changed to protecting their own over the public. This obviously doesn't apply to all police, but it should be noted in cases where one person has a police connection.
 
I just heard the 911 tapes and it is quite unnerving to say the least. What more do the police need in order to arrest Zimmerman?
 
entrement said:
Shit just got real:

DOJ and FBI are now involved according to Roland Martin's twitter.
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Unless they have enough evidence to charge Zimmerman with a hate crime, there probably isn't much they can do. If this guy gets arrested, he's looking at up to 15 years (maybe 30 because the victim was a child). I hope he gets charged with a hate crime, but it's unlikely.
 
Ghost_Protocol said:
Do not listen to the 911 tapes if you haven't already. Do not do it.
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It's important that some people listen to it. It's a vital part of fully conveying the tragedy of this murder. Though, if anyone doesn't want to listen to it, I certainly wouldn't blame them. I'm not going to listen to it.
 
kittens said:
It's important that some people listen to it. It's a vital part of fully conveying the tragedy of this murder. Though, if anyone doesn't want to listen to it, I certainly wouldn't blame them. I'm not going to listen to it.
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It's not worth it. Just like it wasn't worth it for that idiot to post that video of those children murdered in Syria with their brains spilling out.
 
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